Xcore
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Posts posted by Xcore
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Any one mind telling me/showing me if they are going to fix the NPCs that look like they are talking but aren't it' not gamebreaking but when you notice it in upcoming mmos coming out next year it can get bothersome knowing this one doesn't have that
A bit off topic here, apologies but I really would like everyone to stay on topic of this Ability Delay and Responsiveness...
Valid concern btw just saying that I think its best if we continue to gather voices in this thread for a specific issue.
I do hope that we get an official Bioware statement, explanation or simply open communication so that we may resolve this.
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68 pages of trolling. good lord.
responsiveness NOT AN ISSUE
sure there are some graphical glitches that look like your character is performing the same move twice. And sure there are some UI glitches that make certain abilities look like they can't be used/cooldown.
but responsiveness. how do these trolling threads get so big. its like all the occupy folks with no intelligence and a sheep mentality. they just wan to follow some bandwagon to feel important.
whens the sitting animation bandwagon going to get rolling?
My god... what are you?
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I notice it way more on my Gunslinger than I do on some of the other classes, for the obvious reasons. I wasn't disagreeing, Xcore, simply adding to your points that I think there's a few problems working together to really mess with some of the combat. I had some severe problems with my GS in the first area of Alderaan for no apparent reason. A lot of lag and delay of abilities which made things feel pretty awkward. I don't notice it nearly as much on melee heavy, instant ability characters versus the cast-bar types though... so it could be combination of animations, char class abilities and other things you've pointed out.
I know, sorry... don't get me wrong I agree there are several aspects of the combat mechanics that contribute to an overall feeling of unresponsiveness but I was just saying that its easiest to see and understand in the lag-free environment etc.
What you described with client side lag factoring into UI response etc, thats likely more advanced and detailed issues. We really aren't there yet, imo. First lets get the combat fluidity/avatar responsiveness right in the lag-free environments.
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It only happens with ambush right? Not with snipe?
I tried the rolling thing and using charged burst and it NEVER stopped midway through cast.
Thats what Im trying to find out atm. Which are bugs and which are just plain part of the animation system that swtor uses x.x Id say that rolling into natural cover and using the ambush and getting stopped mid cast randomly IS a bug. I tried rolling into cover and spamming charged shot while rolling and not once did my cast time get interrupted.
Wonder if people during the beta actually pointed these things out specifically
Aimed shot it cancels sometimes halfway through, Charged Burst appears to just delay by about 0.5 or 1 second after the roll...
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Some of it has to somehow be lag, latency, or FPS/Hardware related.. because I have this problem.
... but not all of the time, or in all of the areas, simply from a PVE standpoint. That's not to say your points are incorrect.. but I think it's a more complicated issue. It almost feels like the UI does not respond as quickly to your key presses when you're getting heavy FPS lag... which is a Bad Thing . I certainly have not done extensive testing but that'd just a gut feeling on my part in my playtime. It is an overarching problem that I do hope they iron out with some work. It took WoW a long time to really iron out and get the tech working to where you could adjust it manually for your delay, too, so... Give them some time.
Ok well I'm fine with your post and points but lets not worry about how the game/ui handles client side lag input... I'm willing to just not even think about that aspect.
Lets concern ourselves with the easy to notice, standing in the middle of nowhere, 40-60+ FPS and 20-50ms... Ability Lag.
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This is the ability queuing system you are describing, its not a bug, its working as intended.
This is designed so you don't have to spam your keyboard every millisecond so you hit your ability the second it goes off gcd. You hit your ability within the threshold that you can set up in your settings and the ability is used the next time your off GCD.
Understand that SWTOR isn't an exact copy of WoW, its its own thing, and maybe there won't be a need for these pointless threads.
This has nothing to do with the initiation of an ability (queue system, though that doesn't work well either) but the execution of an ability and animation. Before posting, please read about 20-50 pages of this thread to have a firmer grasp, then join the discussion.
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Exactly and I asked a few times before that we should compile a list of abilities that have animation times longer than the gcd x.x
No one has pointed me to an ability yet and I havent run into an ability with animation higher than the gcd.
The only problem I saw was for something like charged burst which seems to fire too late but I could still use flurry of bolts the moment charged burst finishes casting and it goes BAMBAMABPEWPEWPEW
o.o
I'm sorry to say but before trying to make a list of these abilities and detailed issues (the Job of fixing the whole subject/issue) we need some communication and acknowledgment from Bioware here...
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.............jjjjjjjuuuusstt a bummmp for this topiccccc..............GCD! There it goes!
lol... you win
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I've bookmarked it so I will try to remember to check and post every couple of days. I will keep you updated with my experiences as a Sage. I've also played WoW since release and I know 100% that the combat fluidity and instant feedback and responsiveness of WoW was there when it was released. It's something they have gotten right since the beginning; which no one else has since.
I play a Gunslinger currently at 29 almost and my Fiancee is a 28 Sage, she is noticing it big time as well... thanks for the support. I hope Bioware will take this seriously because Warhammer and many other examples certainly did not...
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They only respond to one or two topics a day. Also, it's the holidays, and they don't really have a Ghostcrawler here.
I hope this thread stays positive, active and on page 1 for them to see after the holidays then... either way, response is required to prevent bleeding the first subs (which we all know is a snowballing effect if its because of this very issue discussed here).
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I think they should just remove the GCD and at the end of the animation for the move, have the character turn around and give you a thumbs up, letting you know that he is ready for you to tell him what to do next.
Problem solved.
lol.... bravo...
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Arguing is pretty pointless at this point. I mean, I'm all for it because it keeps the thread up here, but what we really need is a response at this point.
I don't beg for dev posts very often, but it's very justified here.
58 Pages of agreeing voices and VERY GOOD Feedback and discussion to the topic and absolutely NO acknowledgment from Bioware either means they:
1) Purposely ignore it because they cannot fix it, know this and bank on the players who are "fine" with this or "don't notice the issue" to be enough to spell a profit to EA...
2) Don't know how to fix this issue, don't want to respond yet and are brainstorming behind the scenes.
3) Favor Animation over Responsiveness so much so that this is a non-issue to them...
All 3 are worrying to me and I would say are miscalculating on their end.
Bioware should really respond to this and open up the discussion... I've said it before and I'll say it again, Gamers are generally too intelligent to be ignored like this and it will show by this game's success over the next 6 months. I strongly recommend open (no lies) dialogue with the community on this subject.
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I was talking about the other guy saying it's a computer -> chair issue... if that wasn't clear
Its all good
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Because if an animation is under 1.5 seconds it's countered by the GCD?
You're one hell of a Troll... well done sir. Either that or the worst Bio-Drone I have seen to date.... incredible.
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Actually you just described queuing or the lack there of.
IF you cast something and hit another cast before the first one completes it's cycle then one of 2 things will happen.
One if the game ques the next ability it will go off as soon as the first one completes it cycle.
Second No que means it will ignore ALL cast requests until the current ones cycle is complete.
Your example above describes a no Que condition.
The problem is it doesn't smoothly queue anything, the second ability (being spammed) instead will trigger its CD without animation and without effect on the target... or it will be delayed because the first ability's animation goes PAST its cast time... which makes the second ability (being spammed) appear unresponsive (late).
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Name one game that died off becuase the combat was not a carbon copy of WoW's. I guarantee you I can name 5 more flaws about said game that were far more detrimental.
you underestimate and don't fully realize the importance of responsive gameplay... No-one can make you realize this, you are closed to the subject.
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@op Added spoiler tag because his whinny post is long.
I hate to say it bub but its all you i dont have fps issuses or ability delay.. even in other games theres a global cooldown per ability use...which is half a second or .5 i have had wipes once but it only was a couple till the group got its function down... other then that if your referring to story missions upgrade your gear and companion gear lol honestly.. it makes a big difference, dont forget to train regularly you get ability every level...
honestly though these are personal problems.... ***Problems between Chair and computer*** If you have fps problems its time to upgrade there were tons of us during beta answering tech questions... meeting the minimum requirements means exactly that minimum game play. Dual core should be quad core your gpu should clock in at least 600mhz with at least 500mbs on board ram. for any form of decent gameplay. other wise what did you expect... "I meet the minimum requirements that must mean i can play on full settings derp de derp"
I cannot believe people like you, this is the single worst reply in this thread... I am sorry but your lack of "everything" is disturbing...
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I cant get this to happen for my smuggler. I can use underworld medicine -> another ability in quick succesion the MOMENT my underworld medicine finishes casting
The cast bar hasnt disappeared yet but as long as I get to max cast time I can use another ability.
I don't know what to say if you can replicate it, there is enough anecdotal evidence in this thread to support the claim. Perhaps try the longest casting ability you have and spam your following ability .2-.3 sec before the first finishes?
and do this on a whole rotation, don't wait for animations to finish... before hitting the next key, be faster, make the rotation as crisp as possible so that there is no split second of your character not "doing something"
Basically Shatter Combo in WoW as a Frost Mage... I think that explains it well to a degree... (also the setup to the shatter combo)...
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I think this guy is kind of circling around what I am saying. Its not delay, its the GCD its longer then it is in wow. You guys are not used to it yet.
Find an instant ability, like the jedi shadow spinning slash aoe or something similar, get a stop watch if you want. I am getting zero delay in or out of combat, I do play a melee class to the person said that its lessened on range classes. Sorry guys, I really think its you.
This shouldn't cause a cast time to complete but the ability animation or effect to not hit the target...
You are misunderstanding the core problem... I am sorry (not trying to be offensive).
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Is there any way to up vote this forum post or something?
Yes when you reply to a thread, scroll down after you finish typing out your response in the txt field, you will see a "Rate Thread" Drop Down...
Thank you for the support, Bioware has to communicate with us on this...
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Possible my friend but Bioware needs to step up and communicate with us on this subject... it warrants response and communication from Bioware, further silence damages relations more and more as well as diminishes trust.
There cannot be a Thread of 40+ Pages, tens of thousands of views and hundreds of responses on an issue so important without Bioware Communication...
Even if Bioware doesn't have the solution, even if they believe it cannot "yet" be fixed... honest communication goes a long way, gamers are actually quite intelligent for the most part. Ignoring the subject damages the game more than open communication...
If you can learn anything from Blizzard, try communication and openess.
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Really? Hmm, you seem to know what you're talking about and I'm curious, let's break it down a bit:-
The way I see it (the way I think it should be lol) a "realistic" animation lasts as long as it lasts, you want to be able to hit a key for the next action WHILE the animation is running, and then the character IMMEDIATELY does the next thing. Lack of responsiveness comes in when the character doesnt immediately do the next thing after it's previous animation stopped.
So for responsiveness, it doesn't matter how long the animations are for realism's sake, it matters EITHER that you are able to hit a sequence of keys with some small queue (say 2 keypresses?), and the character immediately performs those actions smoothly one after the other (with the actual "hit" taking place at the appropriate time for the attack type, given the type of gameplay it represents), OR that there be some consistent type of animation interruption that can break the animation and immediately replace it with a new one and a new attack.
Are you saying that WoW's attacks/animations are all of the latter, "breakable" type? And that this is always preferable for gameplay, and that it's never good to have animations that must finish before the next attack can take place?
Essentially "yes" that is part of it. It is not the whole story though, for example when running a tight rotation on my smuggler and basically chaining many abilities tightly together, many times an ability's cooldown will trigger without animation or effect of the ability because, I guess I was too fast and just messed the system up.
However yes, in WoW the ability animation interrupts and changes to whatever you're pressing right at the moment. Which I believe leads to better connection with your Avatar, which in turn I believe is "much" more important than Animations (in PvP, lets not even talk about it).
Again, this is only "part" of the issue and I do believe netcoding as well as "when the damage hits you" mechanically is part of it too... its a very complex situation.
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xcore
Not sure if anyone has mentioned this yet but the reason why some people don't see this ability delay is because from what I can tell the problem is mostly just with the operative/smuggler. Ive played the other classes and since beta the operative class has had this problem. Its the animations that do it for the most part its very bad when it comes to healing. Sadly I have sent in many reports on this problem throughout beta and never heard of them wanting to fix it I hope they will.
Hey yea, its more pronounced in certain classes due to their nature in abilities but definitely not confined to those classes as any Healer or Sage/Sorcerer will tell you.
Its not that simple sadly
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Its called a sync error. I'm not a coder but its something to do with server side latency.
I believe the issue has to do with abilities in this game not completing until after the animations goes off. In other games when you use abilities they actually fire and hit the target before you see the animation, which is why in say WoW for instance if you fly past a mob and they shoot a spell at you the spell bolt or whatever will follow you forever until you stop and let it hit you. You already took the damage before you saw the animation.
This and resolve are what makes ToR's pvp a lot different than WoW's too, since you cant really spam stuff you have to wait for the animation to finish even on instants. Even your instants can be interrupted in this game by knockback for example if you are pushed before the animation completes which kinda changes the dynamics of pvp dramatically.
The problem that I have noticed is that it has something to do with mainly abilities that are off the GCD. Often times abilities off the GCD wont fire if the button is clicked twice before the animation completes (even though the ability is supposed to be instant), it will make the character do some kind of wierd 'double clutch', use your resources (ammo, focus whatever), reset the GCD but nothing actually happens.
Just playing around with this I also find for some reason it happens less when you use keybinds than when you use clicks, which is why I think some people say they never have the problem, they are probably using keybinds. So it may also have something to do with how the action bars/UI accept input too.
This issue and the raid frames not working correctly are really my only two beefs with SWTOR. I complain a lot about both but really these are the only 'major' problems with the game. I can wait on minor bug fixes, add-on support, I dont think they need a LFD tool, etc a lot fo the stuff ppl complain about is trivial.
But having raid frames not showing health correctly and abilities that misfire is kinda game breaking for some people, especially people that like to pvp.
Its also possible that the sync error could be whats causing the raid frame health bars to not show accurate info too.
Great response, enjoyed reading it! Well worded
Ability Delay -- Character Responsiveness (This will make or break SW:TOR)
in General Discussion
Posted
Video has been added to the OP, tyvm Baz!