Stop the nerf calls for Operatives.

[Monoth]

 

Every class is OP. Get over it. Your own class whatever it is is OP in some way.

 

 

This is true, but some are more obvious then others....

 

PvP gear is really throwing everything out of whack balance wise... Stats are to high on the gear and pretty much make anyone in PvP gear God over people who don't have any...

 

Aion did this and it caused a lot of people to leave out of frustration...

 

PvP armor should give you a slight advantage, not make it a "I Win button" against people who don't have any..

[Sirolos]

As a sniper, tell me how I should fight them..

 

I stopped reading here because

 

You're a sniper, your the most immobile class in the game

Any melee that sticks to you will KILL you

Did i mention ANY melee that sticks to you will kill you?

[Sky_walkerPL]

PvP gear is really throwing everything out of whack balance wise... Stats are to high on the gear and pretty much make anyone in PvP gear God over people who don't have any...

 

Aion did this and it caused a lot of people to leave out of frustration...

 

PvP armor should give you a slight advantage, not make it a "I Win button" against people who don't have any..

 

Oh yea. That's the major problem IMO.

The difference between lvl50 player and lvl50 player in PvP gear feels almost like if geared one would equal almost two ungeared players. I seen PvP geared Bounty Hunter finishing off 3 regular players alone (resolve makes it far easier for him) without loosing more than half of his health. That's insane.

 

Quote from other topic to support the statement:

IAs a geared 50 myself, I am basically unkillable for anyone under 50. Even level 50 players are no match unless they have some PvP gear as well. I can literally tank 3 players under level 30 no problem. I often win 2v1 and 3v1s against lower level players, because my damage output, utility, and survivability far surpasses that of anyone below 50.

Edited January 1, 2012 by Sky_walkerPL

[Zetara]

As a sniper, tell me how I should fight them. My one stun break has a 2 minute cooldown, I have to be 100% STATIONARY to do any real damage at all due to my class mechanic making easy picking for these here rogues to just come behind me and kill me in a very very few seconds. Okay lets assume I break their first stun, cover pulse, and try to fight them. Well first off they have their own stun breaks (And seemingly more of them, iirc at least 2 possibly 3 not 100% sure here, and at least one of those has a much shorter CD than 2 minutes - which i think they can also spec down to 90 seconds that aside). So they break out of my cover pulse's small immobilization (not full stun) and come right back at me. I try sticky feet (not that it helps much since cover pulse doesnt send people far enough and since sticky isnt pure instant they can close that small area real fast again) and they break out of that too. They also seem to have more than one stun other than just debilitating strike so once they get to me again I die. Straight up. That second stun and I'm gone if I even managed to survive the first one at the start of this. And I don't have anywhere near the burst dps due to all my high damage abilities having cast times of 1.5-2.5 seconds. And I can't just chain them all together there's that cast time after each.

 

It's rare you can get an ambush off and knock them back a reasonable distance with that due to its cast time and aforementioned things before they can do stun #2. Maybe if you use a flashbang and they dont have any stun breaks out to get rid of it. Though that has a hefty cooldown in and of itself

 

You do not get stunned twice. Their stun puts your resolve to 100% so that you cannot be stunned again for a while.

 

Like said above, it's simple. If your breakout is on cooldown, ANY class that stuns you is going to mess you up. If you breakout is availible to use, use it. Your resolve will be 100%, they cannot stun you agin. You are then free to smash them because they are so squishy they have to run away because otherwise you're going to nail them.

[Caeliux]

As a sniper, tell me how I should fight them. My one stun break has a 2 minute cooldown, I have to be 100% STATIONARY to do any real damage at all due to my class mechanic making easy picking for these here rogues to just come behind me and kill me in a very very few seconds. Okay lets assume I break their first stun, cover pulse, and try to fight them. Well first off they have their own stun breaks (And seemingly more of them, iirc at least 2 possibly 3 not 100% sure here, and at least one of those has a much shorter CD than 2 minutes - which i think they can also spec down to 90 seconds that aside). So they break out of my cover pulse's small immobilization (not full stun) and come right back at me. I try sticky feet (not that it helps much since cover pulse doesnt send people far enough and since sticky isnt pure instant they can close that small area real fast again) and they break out of that too. They also seem to have more than one stun other than just debilitating strike so once they get to me again I die. Straight up. That second stun and I'm gone if I even managed to survive the first one at the start of this. And I don't have anywhere near the burst dps due to all my high damage abilities having cast times of 1.5-2.5 seconds. And I can't just chain them all together there's that cast time after each.

 

It's rare you can get an ambush off and knock them back a reasonable distance with that due to its cast time and aforementioned things before they can do stun #2. Maybe if you use a flashbang and they dont have any stun breaks out to get rid of it. Though that has a hefty cooldown in and of itself

 

"I'm a sniper, I hit harder than any class in the game, help me Bioware I hate dieing"

 

I got a answer how to kill me,

 

Answer: You better find another spot to snipe people, cause you are a OP'S main target besides a healer.

 

Why?

 

Cause a sniper hits extremely hard, can CC, and is a complete threat to a group.

[Lunarhawk]

I stopped reading here because

 

You're a sniper, your the most immobile class in the game

Any melee that sticks to you will KILL you

Did i mention ANY melee that sticks to you will kill you?

 

You'd think this but I can actually hold my own against any other melee class that isn't a tank. Tanks now I admit I just get ****ed by them no questions asked, but that's not op cause they're meant to basically be meat shields and I can understand losing to them one on one.. Other ones its more of an actual battle if its pure 1v1 win some lose some. And even then, no other melee class can kill me in 3-4 seconds flat (unless its 2 or 3 v little ol me).

[Lunarhawk]

I think its unfair to say sniper hits harder than any other class in the game

 

 

when you have these *********** running around.

 

Though for pure range classes yeah we probably hit harder than commandos since we're single target based vs their aoe base. Doesn't mean at medium range or close range other classes like sorcs and etc dont do on par with us. And even with luck getting crits speeding up stuff like ambush' cast time and the like, it's still easy for other classes to escape out of our range before we kill them if they're not distracted fighting someone else.

Edited January 1, 2012 by Lunarhawk

[Caeliux]

I think its unfair to say sniper hits harder than any other class in the game

 

 

 

I think it's completely fair to say a sniper hits harder than anyone in the game, and can destroy all classes.

 

Here is someone doing that exact thing with sniper

[Lunarhawk]

I think it's completely fair to say a sniper hits harder than anyone in the game, and can destroy all classes.

 

Here is someone doing that exact thing with sniper

 

Watched the first 2 minutes or so. The player is level 50 with pvp equipment and of the first 5~ people he targeted during that first conflict, not a single was over 20. Multiple were level 10s. Not the best example I think most classes would **** in that scenario.

[Ghend]

I think it's completely fair to say a sniper hits harder than anyone in the game, and can destroy all classes.

 

Here is someone doing that exact thing with sniper

 

You realize that was a BETA video, and the highest person besides that 50 was a 31....

 

Just so you know, im a Concealment spec. Highest Ive hit another 50 for was about 2k, maybe 2.5k. Which is pretty normal for every class to crit. Ive been hit for 4k by a level 22 SI.

 

If I can not stun someone or get behind them, I have to run away or die. If im able to sit behind someone and keep a cycle going they can die fairly fast (lower levels), with another 50, they break stun and face me, from there I am done.

 

We do not have any defence besides stealth, which is a joke right now because majority of players can see me during stealth and break it OR any AOE attack will break it, even it im not damaged, stunned or knocked back.

 

What I am very good at is annoying players, picking off the weak and lower level. I can not go into a middle of a crowd and kill everything, because I have no AOE. ( 3, 1 cast, 1 ranged, 1 frag... All doing barely any damage in the long strong.)

 

If I chose to go healing, I am not rewarded for healing players while they cap nodes, or score with the hutta ball. I have to stand there to cast any major heals (anything 1k +). And if I get 1 player on me I either heal through damage hoping I get backup or run away hoping that I get away to backup or he gives up.

 

Snipers do VERY good damage, the catch, he has to be left alone for that to happen. If he is forced to move then he loses the majority of his major attacks.

 

But we are over powered because we CAN kill lower levels ( LMAO who cant?) and have burst damage.

 

BRB SI, Troopers, Smugglers, BH Can be on equal or above damage easily with having more advantages then us.

[Trux]

Watched the first 2 minutes or so. The player is level 50 with pvp equipment and of the first 5~ people he targeted during that first conflict, not a single was over 20. Multiple were level 10s. Not the best example I think most classes would **** in that scenario.

 

Thats the sole problem in pvp, we are lvl50 playing against level 10-30s and wrecking them. As a result we are called OP and nerf calls are suggested. No class is OP but everyone has a counter class and every class is doing what its role is intended. Rogues killing people in stun locks or bursting people down is standard fare.

[Lunarhawk]

Thats the sole problem in pvp, we are lvl50 playing against level 10-30s and wrecking them. As a result we are called OP and nerf calls are suggested. No class is OP but everyone has a counter class and every class is doing what its role is intended. Rogues killing people in stun locks or bursting people down is standard fare.

 

I agree pvp would prob be more fun with tiers, but when it comes to scoundrels and ops its still a level 50 vs lvl 50 where I get killed in a couple seconds, which again no other class can do or even anything close to it. I know I'm a sniper, I recognize stealth classes are basically my counter, but that doesn't change the fact they can kill in the blink of an eye which no other class can do.

 

@Ghend For straight up burst damage once in range no other class is anywhere near concealment since they can chain their stuff with basically no cooldowns and no cast times. Nowhere close to it. Nothing does near equivalent dps of that major "haha i stealthed you burst". And most of them at level 50 have seem to have more than one stun (and break) they can use so even if you break that first one, once they get close again...

[FalmeseReb]

As a sniper, tell me how I should fight them. My one stun break has a 2 minute cooldown, I have to be 100% STATIONARY to do any real damage at all due to my class mechanic making easy picking for these here rogues to just come behind me and kill me in a very very few seconds. Okay lets assume I break their first stun, cover pulse, and try to fight them. Well first off they have their own stun breaks (And seemingly more of them, iirc at least 2 possibly 3 not 100% sure here, and at least one of those has a much shorter CD than 2 minutes - which i think they can also spec down to 90 seconds that aside)

 

SNIP

 

 

ack a reasonable distance with that due to its cast time and aforementioned things before they can do stun #2. Maybe if you use a flashbang and they dont have any stun breaks out to get rid of it. Though that has a hefty cooldown in and of itself

 

Sniper is screwed if you run into a scoundrel. sorry. Rock beats scissors every time.

[Aidank]

No it wouldnt, people are still too dumb to hit a defensive CD or trinket out of the initial KD..they will still die, no matter what.

 

Operatives are fine

 

People having a clue is not

 

 

except my only stun break has a 2 minute cooldown..

[Trux]

except my only stun break has a 2 minute cooldown..

 

And so is an agents, but when we get caught out of stealth by a 500 yard(hyperbole) charge from a Marauder and get destroyed by snares, stuns, force choke and knockdowns I take my beating like a man and realize I can't fight warriors 1v1 on their terms.

 

Just like squishy low level, undergeared people can't fight 1v1 on my terms. Adapt and overcome.

[bingeroso]

agreed, its not the class that needs a nerf, its Surge in general.

 

My scoundrel has 85% surge, 36% crit 350-400 exp. and w/e power and i eazly crit for 5-6k depending on the debuffs on my target. but IF i don't get a crit and im unlucky enough to just not crit on my alpha well, i don't even get them to 50% hp. but when i do crit they are dead.

 

If im stuck in combat w/ say dots on me, or my vanish is on CD well i'm lucky enough to even kill someone who's at 25% hp people can kite us so eazy and any CC owns us hard, even a basic 2 sec root will mess us up.

Nova 50 smuggles - Iron Citadel

Pwning noobs one Shotgun blast at a time.

 

sentinels have all of the above problems you cry about without a get out of jail free card" i.e. vanish.

 

people can see us when we approach them

 

5k crit? lol

 

"even a 2 second root messes us up" - so you vanish and do it again.

 

"you dont even get them to 50% hp" - 1v1 do you know how long it takes me to get people to half hp? now imagine if they have a healer and i cant do 4-6k crit bursts of damage. it means they never ever die.

 

stunlock should never be in the game (or any game) in 1v1 situations. if two people can manage their CC's to lock me up, thats another thing, but one person.. thats broken pvp imo.

 

also, as a perma stealth class with a vanish, you shouldnt have any survivability/defensive CD's becuase you should be picking the fight, the fight you always have the upper hand in.

 

with all those things in mind. i'd say there is room for improvement in balancing. notice i didnt say n word

[doombomb]

Ops should be asking for buffs out of stealth and nerfs in it/opener. As a 43 marauder I will wreck any op I find out of stealth, unless they're 50 and vanish/open on me. On the other hand, an equal level op requires absolutely every CD I have to kill; if they use a healthpack it's GG for me.

[Trux]

sentinels have all of the above problems you cry about without a get out of jail free card" i.e. vanish.

 

I don't know what the hell spec Sentinels are but your counterpart the Sith Warrior has a "vanish" that stealths you for a few seconds which has been used many times as an escape and an opener on my agent.

 

If its not available for your spec, my apologies but I thought this was a base ability for the Jedi/Sith warriors

[Awrini]

To beat a half intelligent Scrapper scoundrel you gotta be quick. Getting out of melee range isn't enough.

 

My personal opening rotation is 7(Flachette), Q(Shoot First),5 Vital Shot, 7, ` (Back Blast), F (Cover), 3 (Sabo Charge). Also if it's up I might just V (Disappear), Q again. Now assuming the person doesn't skill out of the initial stun I can get up to Back blast as they are able to move. And most people expect to be safe with a scoundrel out of melee range, not true at all. Sabo charge is just as strong as Back Blast, and charged blast isn't that weak either.

 

So everyone saying that without getting the opener Scrappers and Concs are weak. It's just not true. Just know all your abilities.

 

Now.... if you expect to drop a geared tank... they'll just laugh at you as you'll do maybe half of their hp blowing your load. And they will proceed to tear you apart.

 

 

It's kinda like BW said about snipers. If you try to faceroll into them as a melee fighter. They will win every time and be only mildly irritated.

 

Now another thing people seem to be complaining about is the ability for us to remove dots. Well yes. As a scoundrel we have Triage which purges 2 negative tech or physical effects. though I know for a fact it doesn't work on the Inquisitor's dot (which is a force ability *shrug*)

 

Ok sorry for keeping this wall of text going but, my main targets are my counter class operatives, and Inquisitors. Because if I'd open up on say a Sith Warrior or a BH, they'll mitigate most of my damage and proceed to rip my face off.

 

Case in point, my highest crit I've seen with Shoot First was something like 5500. *note that was with expertise potion and field buff. while the lowest, still crit was 3000.

 

TL:DR NOT OP. Rock, Paper, Scissors

[Munx]

Yes we should, do you understand what a rogue class is?

 

 

Here is some moves us OPS have to deal with,

 

Force Choke

 

Knockbacks

 

Force Speed

 

Stuns

 

Bubble

 

Shield

 

Long range snares

 

Dots

 

Heals

 

Other Burst classes

 

Heavy Armor

 

Teamwork

 

Pre-mades

 

 

 

Want me to add all the moves that counter a burst damage class? Want me to tell you what a Agent OP main job is? Want me to tell you we are a 1v1 burst killer, not a AOE, not a tank, not a healer, not a dot class,

 

A support burst damage dps <-----

 

LEARN HOW TO FIGHT A ROGUE TYPE OF CLASS, OR GET OUTTA THE KICTHEN

 

YEAH, cause no other classes have to deal with these moves... wake up and smell the roses, Ops as it is has to high burst damage potential, mixed with more cc then any other class, they far outperform theyr "sister class" the shadow.

 

The fact that you bring up force choke is nothing short of laughable, the only channeled stun in game, infact the only "stun" marauders get, unlike your absurd arsenal of instacast non channeled stuns.

 

Edit: Doom, I highly doubt that, then again I don't know the current skill lvl of the ops on your server.

Edited January 1, 2012 by Munx

[BrolleunHunter]

If a well played Warrior or Knight catches a Scoundrel or Operative out of stealth those players toast if the classes vanish is on CD.

[Munx]

Thanks a big freaking IF, and its also untrue in warzones like huttball, where the op can just jump on the jolly RNG vent train.

[dougan]

There's time to be healed in the burst. One heal prevents death from it, then the Op is screwed.

[BrolleunHunter]

Thanks a big freaking IF, and its also untrue in warzones like huttball, where the op can just jump on the jolly RNG vent train.

 

I've had equal leveled Scoundrels and Operatives catch me from stealth. Shortly after they are running for their life when the numbers are equal, and some cases when not. Either way sometimes the cards fall flat for any player.

[Ashanor]

You shouldn't be able to come out of stealth, stun them, knock them down and kill them before they can even get back up.

 

Operatives have too much burst on level 10s. Should they have a nasty opener? Absolutely. But the damage from an Operative/Scoundrel should not come from their opening shot and should be spread out to make them more viable outside of stealth.

 

Fixed for you. There isn't a problem when everyone is 50 and in PvP gear. The only problem here is our WZs having high levels in them, especially the 50s.

Edited January 1, 2012 by Ashanor