Content far to easy

[jamiesafc]

Recently tried to create a new toon to replay some of the origin stories and whilst the stories are amazing the ease of content makes it a chore, the game really needs to increase the difficulty back up a bit or give an option somewhere in instanced areas to increase the difficulty similar to chapters., can there be 2 instances of each planet one set with the current mind numbing difficulty and one set higher to give people who want a challenge, a challenge.

I'm almost certain you could complete every class story and most of the expansion content with only using auto attacks.  I get the content is story focused but when it takes 2/3 abilities to wipe a group of enemies what is the point its not rewarding for a player, there's no need for player improvement, no need for players to learn what a cleanse or an interrupt is. Fighting some of the enemies you come up against in the game should feel like a challenge however they feel like fighting a Padawan with a training saber. 

Bar NiM ops and master mode chapters is there any challenge anywhere in this game? 

I remember back when the game launched on my first JK toon fighting Valis after Nar Shaddaa, it was a very hard fight, it felt like it should have been a hard fight but I learnt what a cleanse was I learnt what an interrupt was, I learnt I had to optimise my rotation, i had to get some better gear,  I died quite a bit but when I finally beat the fight I felt a sense of accomplishment that no new player is going to get. I recently tried this fight again and i auto attacked my way through the fight without zero issues.  I know not everyone wants this but I'm pretty sure there would be a significant number prefer this over the current snooze fest difficulty level. 

 

Curious what peoples thoughts are on this

[Pirana]

Yeah, launch pve was actually somewhat challenging. Then a few years later, the companions were given steroids, only to be nerfed. The leveling process now is a joke. They did make things a little harder by changing the skill trees around and forcing decisions, but the leveling experience is still trivial. 

[Stradlin]

It gets pretty fun/sad when you subject class stories to the great log-in challenge:

 

Think of process of logging in. You must insert your password 100% correctly. Once this part has been tackled, you face the hardcore end boss of logging in: the authenticator. You have like 30 seconds to insert 6 different numbers in correct order. Fail, and you must try again. 

Now...how many battles there are, in  all class stories combined, where things would be as demanding as the battle against The Authenticator?  In how many class story oriented  fights will you fail unless you manage to press   six different number keys in correct order within a  30 second window?  Are there any?

Edited May 13 by Stradlin

[jamiesafc]

11 minutes ago, Stradlin said:

It gets pretty fun/sad when you subject class stories to the great log-in challenge:

 

Think of process of logging in. You must insert your password 100% correctly. Once this part has been tackled, you face the hardcore end boss of logging in: the authenticator. You have like 30 seconds to insert 6 different numbers in correct order. Fail, and you must try again. 

Now...how many battles there are, in  all class stories combined, where things would be as demanding as the battle against The Authenticator?  In how many class story oriented  fights will you fail unless you manage to press   six different number keys in correct order within a  30 second window?  Are there any?

 

This is very sad, yet also very funny and true. 

If I had the will power/sanity I would do an auto attack only run through all story content I'm pretty sure you could do it with ease.  

The narrative of fighting these great combatants of the galaxy and actual difficulty couldn't be further apart. New players then get to try and game content and go in to a SM ops which are all tank and spanks (tanks optional on a few of these) bar a few then try and go in to vet mode op or even a MMFP have no idea that they need to avoid a big red circle of the floor, no idea what a cleanse/interrupt is  which then causes tension in the group. The difficulty spike at this point is way to big instead of a gradual increase in difficulty throughout the story and in to end game content. 

[Traceguy]

It's a lot easier than before, but it's even more so if you already know your class, the general combat,  and are playing within your legacy where you have legacy buffs, datacron master bonuses, and legacy presence perks from companion conversations. Heck, you probably even have a companion of level 50 before you have your ship. I know some of us are pulling Shae Vizla from the mailbox at level 1. The true crime is Darth Thanaton and Darth Baras are now level 10.

New players are still struggling. New players will be inadequately geared, just click whatever ability they feel like, if not spam the level 1 filler, and will avoid their purge, interrupt, and stun abilities like the plague.  Someone was asking for help with the False Emperor just yesterday, complaining on the fleet about needing to look up the mechanics for the final boss because it was too hard and they're still failing. They refused to believe it when I told them there were no special mechanics to know. Just "spank and tank Malgus from the stairs". Still to this day I'm seeing many players complain that they can't solo those 2 Jedi without Vette (Sith Warrior story on Tatooine).

Edited May 13 by Traceguy

[xordevoreaux]

I don't miss the days when I had to be overleveled to complete a class story boss mob

[Toraak]

45 minutes ago, Traceguy said:

It's a lot easier than before, but it's even more so if you already know your class, the general combat,  and are playing within your legacy where you have legacy buffs, datacron master bonuses, and legacy presence perks from companion conversations. Heck, you probably even have a companion of level 50 before you have your ship. I know some of us are pulling Shae Vizla from the mailbox at level 1. The true crime is Darth Thanaton and Darth Baras are now level 10.

New players are still struggling. New players will be inadequately geared, just click whatever ability they feel like, if not spam the level 1 filler, and will avoid their purge, interrupt, and stun abilities like the plague.  Someone was asking for help with the False Emperor just yesterday, complaining on the fleet about needing to look up the mechanics for the final boss because it was too hard and they're still failing. They refused to believe it when I told them there were no special mechanics to know. Just "spank and tank Malgus from the stairs". Still to this day I'm seeing many players complain that they can't solo those 2 Jedi without Vette (Sith Warrior story on Tatooine).

Gear doesn't matter. I don't even gear when I am leveling. I use unmodded armor shells. Only thing I upgrade is my MH every 10 levels or so. I'm sure you could do all of it without even upgrading your weapons.

[Traceguy]

19 minutes ago, Toraak said:

Gear doesn't matter.

At some point it does, at least during a level sync. A level 80 player was on Discord a some months ago asking for help with the final boss on Ziost. We determined that they were in something like 240 gear. They were instructed to get 324 gear for their level, and after that they had zero trouble with the Ziost boss.

[Toraak]

9 minutes ago, Traceguy said:

At some point it does, at least during a level sync. A level 80 player was on Discord a some months ago asking for help with the final boss on Ziost. We determined that they were in something like 240 gear. They were instructed to get 324 gear for their level, and after that they had zero trouble with the Ziost boss.

maybe at that point, but the origin stories which is what the OP is talking about, gear means nothing. I think Rishi is where you should start to look at putting in gear, depending on your level at that point in the story.

 

But for Ziost 240 gear should be plenty. Granted if already level 80, no reason not to have 324 gear (or better).

[Traceguy]

27 minutes ago, Toraak said:

But for Ziost 240 gear should be plenty. Granted if already level 80, no reason not to have 324 gear (or better).

Level sync doesn't play kindly

[Toraak]

20 minutes ago, Traceguy said:

Level sync doesn't play kindly

It should. Ziost was meant for level 60, which means you wouldn't have anything close to 240 gear. In theory that is over geared for Ziost. I'll have to check that out on one of my newer alts however. I haven't gone through that part of the story on a few of them yet. I'll do it in basic level 60 gear. (So roughly 190 mods and such).

Edited May 13 by Toraak

[Pirana]

1 hour ago, Toraak said:

Gear doesn't matter. I don't even gear when I am leveling. I use unmodded armor shells. Only thing I upgrade is my MH every 10 levels or so. I'm sure you could do all of it without even upgrading your weapons.

Close to what I do. 
I use the xp gear provided years ago, no inserts in any of the pieces and the comp is set to DPS, not tank or heal. It starts to get a little sketchy when you get to the Black Hole and CZ, but prior to that, it's super easy. 

It's a skill problem if people are having issues, other than perhaps the small class buff, provided all buffs have been unlocked. Someone mentioned just the other day that heroics were hard, that displays a disparity in skillsets among people. 

[tsteenburg]

If I recall, at least from what devs said at one point, if you use the gear appropriate to the level of the planet, level-synch does not affect your gear. I have never verified if true. It certainly is the case that if you aren't at max gear rating for your level, level synch hammers your stats.

[Toraak]

2 hours ago, Pirana said:

Close to what I do. 
I use the xp gear provided years ago, no inserts in any of the pieces and the comp is set to DPS, not tank or heal. It starts to get a little sketchy when you get to the Black Hole and CZ, but prior to that, it's super easy. 

It's a skill problem if people are having issues, other than perhaps the small class buff, provided all buffs have been unlocked. Someone mentioned just the other day that heroics were hard, that displays a disparity in skillsets among people. 

That is the unmodded armor I use as well. The DvL armor. I just don't put anything into it as I level. The only difference is I generally use companion as healer, so I don't have to keep stopping to rest all the time. I just go from one fight to the next without stopping.

Edited May 13 by Toraak

[Pirana]

40 minutes ago, Toraak said:

That is the unmodded armor I use as well. The DvL armor. I just don't put anything into it as I level. The only difference is I generally use companion as healer, so I don't have to keep stopping to rest all the time. I just go from one fight to the next without stopping.

That's probably the smarter route, I use Shae because her overhead arsenal is too good to pass up when she's DPS. Probably should have mentioned that in the other post, having her also trivializes the content, even at level 10 influence, but really, a healer does the same thing, just a safer method.
 

[Darcmoon]

4 hours ago, Toraak said:

It should. Ziost was meant for level 60, which means you wouldn't have anything close to 240 gear. In theory that is over geared for Ziost. I'll have to check that out on one of my newer alts however. I haven't gone through that part of the story on a few of them yet. I'll do it in basic level 60 gear. (So roughly 190 mods and such).

They introduced a 'mechanic' with 7.0 or soon afterwards where if you are 80 and not in the minimum level gear you are penalized.  They did it so that people wouldn't continue to use the 306 gear from last xpac.

[ThanderSnB]

11 minutes ago, Darcmoon said:

They introduced a 'mechanic' with 7.0 or soon afterwards where if you are 80 and not in the minimum level gear you are penalized.  They did it so that people wouldn't continue to use the 306 gear from last xpac.

That's pretty annoying depending on where you are when you hit level 80. One of my characters nearly died while fighting a group of heroic mobs because they dinged 80 in the middle of the fight. My character's health was instantly cut in half because of the penalty combined with 280ish item level (all I had found in the later levels). For new players, they really should have a mission auto-added to the log that sends players to the fleet to get the 324 set.

[denavin]

Game difficulty is Subjective. Not everybody likes to or can play at extreme difficulty. Most players like to play a casual game with a reasonable amount of risk and not by dying in every battle. 

Making the game harder has been tried before with disastrous results and many complaints from the majority of the players causing the dev's to reverse course.

If you want harder content then you can make your character not so powerful so that YOU can have the challenge your are looking for without making it harder for those of us that don't.

 

News Flash: Being DEAD all the time is NOT FUN!

[FreeToSWTORThree]

They actually have increased the difficulty on class story. They've also increased difficulty in general, heroic 2's being one example. It's harder now than 5.0 and 6.0 and after starting over on a brand new account I'm not looking for a challenge from the class story. I want to breeze through it so I can get my class buffs and heroic moment skills already.

[juliushorst]

Open world content should be as easy and accessible as possible. There is master mode group content for people who want something difficult.

If they crank up difficulty for heroics and class stories it will probably be the last straw for me and I'm not very happy with the game since 7.0.

[Guyverarmor]

1 hour ago, juliushorst said:

Open world content should be as easy and accessible as possible. There is master mode group content for people who want something difficult.

If they crank up difficulty for heroics and class stories it will probably be the last straw for me and I'm not very happy with the game since 7.0.

They need to introduce a difficulty slider then, like LOTRO does with their content, so everyone can be made very happy and how hard they want the open world content to be.

People can keep the slider at 0 for as little thinking and processing as possible to play, or up the difficulty so they actually have to watch how they play else they get dusted. Everyone wins.

[Anhkriva]

7 hours ago, denavin said:

Game difficulty is Subjective. Not everybody likes to or can play at extreme difficulty. Most players like to play a casual game with a reasonable amount of risk and not by dying in every battle. 

I'm sure there's something between "extreme" difficulty as you called it and no difficulty at all.

7 hours ago, denavin said:

News Flash: Being DEAD all the time is NOT FUN!

Right now, the only way to die in this game is to take damage from falling from a great height 🤣

[DeannaVoyager]

10 hours ago, Pirana said:

That's probably the smarter route, I use Shae because her overhead arsenal is too good to pass up when she's DPS. Probably should have mentioned that in the other post, having her also trivializes the content, even at level 10 influence, but really, a healer does the same thing, just a safer method.
 

On a lowbie characters Shae as dps is the only way to go for me too. Some classes are horrible at low levels, you don't have enough abilities, and the ones you have have long cooldowns or eat up all your energy because no resource management yet so that you can only use basic attack most of the time. Shae will fix that. Or any other companion on dps. When progressing to higher levels and planets and I get more power, I will change companion to heals so I don't have to stop all the time, like Toraak said.

[Stradlin]

9 hours ago, denavin said:

Game difficulty is Subjective. Not everybody likes to or can play at extreme difficulty. Most players like to play a casual game with a reasonable amount of risk and not by dying in every battle. 

Making the game harder has been tried before with disastrous results and many complaints from the majority of the players causing the dev's to reverse course.

 

 

News Flash: Being DEAD all the time is NOT FUN!

Everybody playing TOR has been forged in same unforgiving hellfire trials of successfully logging in to the game though.  Person whose cognitive abilities and dexterity is at such level that they are able to successfully  log in(assuming account with authenticator) will find every  class story boss fight easier than the process of logging in to the game  was.

Quote

If you want harder content then you can make your character not so powerful so that YOU can have the challenge your are looking for without making it harder for those of us that don't.

There is some merit in talking about the actual game, actual state of the game and the actual difficulty present through the default experience. One can always do some increasingly gimmicky challenge, making it more difficult for yourself. "Maybe ask your spouse to sneak keyboard to bed once you have fallen asleep and see if you can literally play TOR in your sleep! " Game doesn't support or recognize or reward any of this, they quite literally aren't part of the game. "Make the game harder for you if you want more challenge!" applies to chapters, where vet and master mode set out to do just that. 

 

Edited May 14 by Stradlin

[Pirana]

1 hour ago, DeannaVoyager said:

On a lowbie characters Shae as dps is the only way to go for me too. Some classes are horrible at low levels, you don't have enough abilities, and the ones you have have long cooldowns or eat up all your energy because no resource management yet so that you can only use basic attack most of the time. Shae will fix that. Or any other companion on dps. When progressing to higher levels and planets and I get more power, I will change companion to heals so I don't have to stop all the time, like Toraak said.

When I mentioned 'smarter route', I chose those words due to the various skill levels among gamers, I don't need to use a healer, never have, unless I'm a HM FP and we lose the healer, that's it, open world, it's never needed. There was time before the companion change that each one had their own role, tank, heal or dps, and didn't have the option to right click the portrait and change, then yes, I would have used what their role was. Only going to use the Republic side and not the mirror classes or abilities:

Sage - shield, heal and HoT as a dps
Commando - DCD's, HoT, which people should be using between each pull anyway whether they're health is topped off or not to proc HVSC
Gunslinger - Cover or DCD 
Shadow - Stealth class that is over-tuned at the moment, notably Serenity. If someone is having a hard time, then reading one of those Vulkk guides might be in their best interest, there should be zero problems unless someone is new
Vanguard - Finally a class where there is some down time between pulls, no off heals and for a heavy armor wearing class, they're squishy and their rotation can be as unforgiving as Commando AS, so burning up cells can occur if you're not familiar with the class
Scoundrel - Off heals and a heal. Another over-tuned class currently that also has stealth
Guardian and Sentinel -  Two classes where there might be some down time to regen health due to being in melee range, so I can see using a heal comp here for two different reasons, downtime and new players.

With all that though, I can see some benefits to using a healer comp, everyone plays the game differently and it is a safer route. I'm almost always running around with 50%-75% health in the open world, not having my health topped isn't game breaking nor am I OCD. lol Running a DPS companion expedites open world content faster and that's been the case since the companions were given the option to select roles. People should play the game the way they want though, and if using a healer companion helps, then go for it.