Conquest Changes Following 7.4.1

[FrontLineFodder]

1 hour ago, Traceguy said:

Still taking advantage of Taskmaster each day. Seriously, Broadsword, extend that objective to levels 71-80.  I'm getting those points either way. 

Yeah, Conquest levels could probably do with some work.

Like Taskmaster... what is the difference between a level 50 character doing 10 missions and a level 80 character ? A level 50 is probably still doing class story given how quickly you level up, and so is has many more missions easily available.

Edited April 14 by FrontLineFodder

[TrixxieTriss]

1 hour ago, FrontLineFodder said:

Yeah, Conquest levels could probably do with some work.

Like Taskmaster... what is the difference between a level 50 character doing 10 missions and a level 80 character ? A level 50 is probably still doing class story given how quickly you level up, and so is has many more missions easily available.

It’s how they get you to stay on the tread mill & make more Alts to replay old content.
Then if you get attached to those alts & don’t want to delete them, they get you to buy more server slots so you can make more Alts. 
And you stay on their $$ grind longer & they don’t need to make as much new playable content.

 

[lingburger]

I've been unhinged over a lot of the changes I have seen in the last year.

This CQ rip-off brings to mind the Camel & Straw thing.

Like many, I have invested lots of real-dosh into this game, and, as a founding 62 yr old that has played since early release its extremely disappointing to have the 'way we play' micro managed (although managed barely fits as an apt description)

Unlike most, I solved the issue of getting bored with my toons and having to buy extra server by simply setting up another computer to play the game and create another account.

I now have 3 accounts I play, plus my wife's account.

At one stage we had 4 accounts subbed - now down to 3 and its most likely I'll drop 2 more once we have finished migrating all our active toons over to SV (APAC Founders) and setup our private Guild to manage resource distribution.

Really, I'm just waiting for the new KOTOR to be ready - then its highly likely I will no longer provide any funding in any form to EABS...

[Traceguy]

On 4/13/2024 at 8:04 PM, VegaMist said:

Dude... Have you had any time to sleep? Congrats.

Yes. I'm actually sleeping more since this change. I'm not having doing to do any extra work. Heroics are double points now. 5k for heroic, 5k for planet. Add in Taskmaster for levels 50-70, and you are banking on conquest points.

--

Just taking a small number of things I do each day

Before 7.4.1: 77,320

Spoiler

Planet	Points
Korriban	4290
Hutta	4290
Dromund Kass	4290
Balmorra	4290
Nar Shaddaa	4290
Tattooine	4290
Hoth	4290
Tarris	4290
CZ-198	0
Rep Token	43000	Has to be earned each day.
Total	77320

 

After 7.4.1c: 115,400

Spoiler

Planet	Points
Korriban	10400
Hutta	10400
Dromund Kass	10400
Balmorra	10400
Nar Shaddaa	10400
Tattooine	10400
Hoth	10400
Tarris	10400
CZ-198	5200
TaskMaster	27000	Autocompletes doing the above
Total	115400

 

 

 

 

And with the ability to repeat heroics, you can now supplement longer tasks with rerunning shorter heroics. I'm now earning more conquest points per day with less time required.

 

Edited April 15 by Traceguy

[Ahndri]

@EricMusco

Since you're doubling down on this change to the rep advancement conquest reward, the least you could do is make sure that other conquest is awarded properly:

https://forums.swtor.com/topic/934239-galactic-seasons-progress-stronghold-bonus-didnt-apply/

 

Apparently this is a long standing bug that no one noticed until now (I guess?), but it's now weeks gone by since this report, with no acknowledgement, much less a fix. 

[Duck_Cider]

On 4/10/2024 at 3:35 AM, Samcuu said:

I could see 3 or 4 ppl standing on the one node a team has because they are racking up medals, while still losing a match and making no effort to win. Or maybe ppl would just run around grabbing the crit boost and then trying to get the big crit dmg/heal medals. It could work but I think you'd have to rework the medal system. 

On 4/13/2024 at 6:58 AM, PlasmaJohn said:

That would chase away the new and casual GSF people that want to play.

Going to medals would bring some benefits - for one, people who do nothing but ram asteroids ten times would get no rewards, whether or not they get any winning-team medal multipliers. But yeah, for wider benefits, and so new players get proper rewards, medals would have to be changed. We could see how last week's GSF medals objective, as currently implemented, played out on satellite maps. Pretty much as described. If you have many afkers on your only sat, people pushing for a second sat have a lower chance of success, and can end up with less medals than the afkers. On points quoted:

- Add medals for contesting any point: right now, if you solo block an entire team from capping a neutral sat, playing pure survival, all you get is an afk warning.
- Overall PvP dmg/heals, or dmg/heals related to objectives, seem like better things to reward than a single boosted supercrit.
- Extra medal categories with low thresholds to achieve would help new players. (People struggling to hit GSF targets can still contribute a lot with well-placed bomber nests.)

Another thought was having a final score predictor, similar to the Gree pylons PvP one, to make the current situation clearer to everyone, and possibly tying extra incentives to that. E.g., if you're 'ahead' 800-700 on GSF sats (first to 1000 wins), but you have one sat, while the enemy has two, you're actually losing. Expected final score if nothing changes is you 950, enemy 1000. So point that out, then offer extra incentive to take a risk and go for a second sat. If your team's winning, that extra incentive isn't necessary.

 

On 4/10/2024 at 9:49 AM, TrixxieTriss said:

If anything, their move to BS has only emphasised they have no inclination to fix PvP or spend anymore time or energy to improve it’s playability, fun or competitiveness beyond making it a time grind & a safe place for AFKers to do as little as possible. 

I think they'd be willing to do something, as long as it's not too time-consuming, and it promises a clear benefit which justifies the time spent. Reworking medals would require less time than reworking matchmaker, and it would be effective at reducing afk issues.

On 4/10/2024 at 9:49 AM, TrixxieTriss said:

Sadly, what I predict will happen, is more & more people will learn to AFK as the means of least resistance to a format they dislike or have lost fun doing. The devs will see this data & respond with a typical knee jerk reaction like making only winning count again against dailies & weeklies.

That, and/or nerfing reward amounts, as they've previously done for both PvP and GSF. Either choice would require even less time than reworking medals. Hopefully, this time around, they can be convinced that a medal rework would be better for both game modes than alternatives like those.

Edited April 19 by Duck_Cider

[_Whiskeyjack]

This was my favorite game and I can't play it anymore since the nerf to CQ points.  I'm so pissed.

[ShadowyKai]

Quote

 

I am going to miss this game.

When it first came out in 2011, I sometimes wound up going to bed at 7 a.m. or 8 a.m. because I had spent the entire night playing the game and just couldn't stop.

 

I know the feeling. I did that, too.

Both of the other SW:TOR players in my household cancelled their subscriptions after the removal of the Reputation track from Galactic Seasons, the obliteration of the value of "Advancement : Reputation," and that lame "We swear, it just slipped our minds" excuse they gave us for why they didn't mention these changes in the Patch Notes or anywhere else prior to the game update.

At the end of March, against my better judgment, I renewed my subscription for one more month, in the hopes that they might do something to rectify this situation. I should have known better.

I actually thought that they would announce a "compromise," say that they've listened to our feedback and give us back a small portion of the Conquest points for "Advancement : Reputation." I never believed I would be satisfied with that, but it turned out, they didn't even do that much.

The increase in Conquest values for Heroic Missions was all well and good, if you can get past the fact that increasing the amount of boring grinding in the game is exactly why many of us were upset at the nerf in the first place. But you know, they could have kept "Advancement : Reputation" where it was and also increased the Conquest rewards for Heroic Missions. To this day, I still don't see how nerfing that Conquest Objective improved the game-playing experience. All the nerf did was make the game more tedious and boring.

Well, my subscription runs out in just a matter of hours, and I probably won't be back before it does, so this is my good-bye. To my friends who are still in the game, it's been a blast. I might come back to this game at some point in the future, just for old time's sake, nostalgia, but I'm not counting on it. Good luck to the rest of you. For as long as it lasted, this was a great game.

[Christie_Swift]

 

 

So I guess so much for 7.4.1c

https://forums.swtor.com/topic/934559-nothing-about-reputation-conquest-points-in-741c-patch-notes/#comment-9809651

Conquest remains as messed up before and 50K instead of 100K seems still a lot of work for a very causal player. To balance off please make this system better. I know we cant get back to revert to 50K but at least increase heroics to 7.5K or 10K double amount for other events. It's been done before but needs more tweaking. 

[DeannaVoyager]

8 hours ago, Christie_Swift said:

 

 

So I guess so much for 7.4.1c

https://forums.swtor.com/topic/934559-nothing-about-reputation-conquest-points-in-741c-patch-notes/#comment-9809651

Conquest remains as messed up before and 50K instead of 100K seems still a lot of work for a very causal player. To balance off please make this system better. I know we cant get back to revert to 50K but at least increase heroics to 7.5K or 10K double amount for other events. It's been done before but needs more tweaking. 

Just reverting the personal goal back to 50k would make it less grindy and compensate the loss of reputation points. When the amount of points people are getting is tied to stronghold bonus, it treats people differently for the same amount of work, which is unfair. 

[Traceguy]

15 hours ago, Christie_Swift said:

but at least increase heroics to 7.5K or 10K double amount for other events.

Heroics have pretty much been doubled, if you ignore the fact they are repeatable, which allows you to earn even more.

Let's say prior to the nerf in 7.4.1, you were doing Toxic Bombs on a daily bases. This would net you "Balmorra: Heroic Mission", which was worth 5200CQP with 150% SH bonus. After 7.4.1c, they released "Mission: Heroic" to players level 50-80, and buffed it to give 5200CQP. Now, if you do Toxic Bombs, you will get

	Pre 7.4.1c	Post 7.4.1c
Mission: heroic	0	5200
Balmorra: Heroic	5200	5200
Total:	5200	10400

 

 

 

Edited May 16 by Traceguy

[PlasmaJohn]

1 hour ago, Traceguy said:

Heroics have pretty much been doubled, if you ignore the fact they are repeatable, which allows you to earn even more.

Let's say prior to the nerf in 7.4.1, you were doing Toxic Bombs on a daily bases. This would net you "Balmorra: Heroic Mission", which was worth 5200CQP with 150% SH bonus. After 7.4.1c, they released "Mission: Heroic" to players level 50-80, and buffed it to give 5200CQP. Now, if you do Toxic Bombs, you will get

	Pre 7.4.1c	Post 7.4.1c
Mission: heroic	0	5200
Balmorra: Heroic	5200	5200
Total:	5200	10400

 

 

 

Only the first heroic on a planet has been doubled.  PlanetName: Heroic is a daily repeatable.  What's new is that Mission: Heroic is now available to all tiers.  I forget if that one was infinitely repeatable or not but now it is.  Even with that it still doesn't make up for how much of a drag getting CQ is still if you don't play how the studio desperately wish you would.  The buff didn't go far enough to mitigate the massive nerf.

BTW I have 150% SH bonus and both yield only 5000.  Looks like you have a guild CQ bonus running.

[Traceguy]

7 hours ago, PlasmaJohn said:

Only the first heroic on a planet has been doubled.  PlanetName: Heroic is a daily repeatable.  What's new is that Mission: Heroic is now available to all tiers.  I forget if that one was infinitely repeatable or not but now it is.  Even with that it still doesn't make up for how much of a drag getting CQ is still if you don't play how the studio desperately wish you would.  The buff didn't go far enough to mitigate the massive nerf.

That's why I specifically said " if you ignore the fact they are repeatable, which allows you to earn even more."

Mission: Heroic was always infinitely repeatable, but it was only for levels 10-49

The fact is, for doing no extra work (i.e. 1 heroic per planet as usual), you get double points.

  

2 minutes ago, Traceguy said:

BTW I have 150% SH bonus and both yield only 5000

 

I'm counting the +10% bonus form the guild perk. It's still doubled with or without 5000/5200 >  10000/10400

Edited May 16 by Traceguy

[captainbladejk]

There's a few more things they could to resolve the issues with conquest, but they'll never do it because it would mean admitting they got it wrong and they're too arrogant to do that. 

1: Revert the rep token nerf

2: Add the additional objectives they said they were going to put in awhile back when trying to sell people on the "rebalance". 

3: actually listen to the players. 

4: lower conquest totals to 75k

5: quit trying to force everyone into PVP and starfighter. 

[Traceguy]

@EricMusco Are we still getting more changes? Can you please unlock Mission: Taskmaster for levels 71-80? Currently levels 10-70 get this. It means I have to play in a low level alt to progress that daily objective. It doesn't hurt to allow all levels to do it, it's really  a quality of life thing.

  

On 3/28/2024 at 1:23 PM, EricMusco said:

All of that said, Conquests is definitely a place we are continuing to pay close attention to and plan to make more changes in the future so keep the feedback coming. Thanks all.

You said it here, you are continuing to pay attention and plan to make more changes. Where are these?

 

Edited June 3 by Traceguy

[BelorfinSiana]

I just want to say... raising conquests from 50,000 to 100,000 has made them tedious.  That said, I tend to do a full round of heroics (starter planet to Corellia) every week, so it's still doable.

[DeannaVoyager]

19 hours ago, BelorfinSiana said:

I just want to say... raising conquests from 50,000 to 100,000 has made them tedious.  That said, I tend to do a full round of heroics (starter planet to Corellia) every week, so it's still doable.

Yeah. That's one of the biggest reasons I don't feel like playing anything "extra". If I'll start doing something with a character, but if it's not something that would also finish conquest for them, I choose not to play at all instead. I hate unfinished business and the 100k target is nothing but unfinished business for me. 

Revert the personal target back to 50k.

[ThrilliganX]

The rep token nerf was an absolute slap in the face, and I would like to point out 2 things:

 

1.  "Shouldn't be rewarded for logging in and clicking and logging back out" is total BS. 

I spent hours and hours strategically stockpiling these things and clicking that stupid mailbox across all servers.

You retroactively invalidated hours of playtime just like if you had removed achievements or gear I had earned.

Not cool. 

You shouldn't punish the player because you want to nuke an earlier developer's design choice. 

Mom and Dad were fighting and the kids got hurt here.

 

2.  It was an incentive to play all servers and log in for a couple minutes each day to see if anything was going on, on that particular server.

You have removed that incentive and it's another step towards more dead servers.

Edited June 18 by ThrilliganX

[Traceguy]

@EricMusco Can you please update us on a state of things? What other changes can we expect? It's been 3 months now since you promised more changes.

Edited June 24 by Traceguy

[Kilekrn]

On 6/24/2024 at 7:23 AM, Traceguy said:

@EricMusco Can you please update us on a state of things? What other changes can we expect? It's been 3 months now since you promised more changes.

I quit playing after the conquest nerf and was popping back in to see if they had fixed anything. Guess that answers my question to stay gone.

[Ghost_Spectre]

On 3/29/2024 at 2:23 AM, EricMusco said:

Hey folks,

I am back to talk about the Conquest changes we are planning for 7.4.1c (stay tuned for a post in the next few days with more details on timing for this patch). Thank you again for the feedback since the original change in 7.4.1. It gave us a lot to chew on internally around our change, our goals for Conquests, and the friction that came out in the feedback you were passing on.

 

-eric
 

Eric and Keith, y'all just can't leave things well enough alone. All this is going to do is slow down progression. In other words, you are artificially extending the grinding for less conquest points. Grinding to keep players playing via grinding is not endearing to anyone. It's fundamentally wrong. This may go over for those who accept grinding or have nothing else to do, it is certainly not acceptable to those who have a finite time to try and enjoy playing a game. This change does not make a quality of life improvement it makes it worse dissatisfying the player/customer base.

[DeannaVoyager]

With the pvp seasons so back to back, I'm no longer required to do conqest for my guilds, because there's a few people who want to do pvp seasons and they are capping the guild target without me. All good, right? No.

I've been trying to force myself to login outside of raid time to play something, but I've been incredibly creative finding out other stuff to do instead. Sometimes I manage to log in, look at the screen for a while trying to decide what to do, and after a while I just log out because I realize I won't be able to cap that alt by doing what I like to do in this game and I don't want to leave things half-done. Sure, BS is getting my sub money, but for how long? I don't see a point of paying just so that I can raid a couple of times a week, because all other content has been made so grindy and uninviting that I rather go clean the toilet than play. 

Conquest used to be fun and felt rewarding. Now it's just yet another boring grind. 

Return the reputation conquest points and/or revert the personal goal to 50k.

[Traceguy]

@EricMusco It has now been 4 months since you promised more changes. What can we expect? Can we still expect more changes?

[LJ_Gibbs]

1 hour ago, Traceguy said:

@EricMusco It has now been 4 months since you promised more changes. What can we expect? Can we still expect more changes?

Did they promise more changes or that they would "look into it" and "monitor the data"?

[Traceguy]

17 hours ago, LJ_Gibbs said:

Did they promise more changes or that they would "look into it" and "monitor the data"?

That's how I interpreted Eric's last words on the subject.

  

On 3/28/2024 at 1:23 PM, EricMusco said:

All of that said, Conquests is definitely a place we are continuing to pay close attention to and plan to make more changes in the future so keep the feedback coming. Thanks all.

"Plan to make more" and "keep the feedback coming" seemed clear this thread was supposed to be moving forward from the initial changes they gave us for dailies/heroics.

Edited July 30 by Traceguy