State of SWTOR Patch 7.4.1+ Thoughts?

[Darviset]

7.4.1x is live and there are some things that are worth talking about. This isn't a complaint post. For some, this info isn't even really news. But for many of you that are frustrated by recent changes... This post is for you. What is the state of SWTOR in early 2024? The 1st thing that everyone should stop and ponder is that Broadsword is a business. They are not a charity. They are here to make money. I applaud this. I'm grateful that they took on SWTOR and will hopefully keep the game around for years to come. What we as players need to do is look at any changes to the game thru this lens.

• How will this change benefit Broadsword?
• How will it allow them to further their goals?
• How will this change help Broadsword make more money?

It is a business after all. Let's look at the new xmog/cosmetics that are dropping. Since 7.4.1x's release, these new items have all but replaced potential upgrades, a source of credits, and Jawa Junk production thru deconstruction. Now, If this were a mistake, Broadsword would have made adjusting the drop rate of these items a top priority. What was the first hotfix post patch you ask? Fixing an issue w/ a Cartel Market bundle mount that was not working as intended. See the above priority (Business here to make money.) As a result the community begins to become less self-reliant and more dependent on what Broadsword will allow you to have or what you purchase thru the Cartel Market. See above priority. So we're seeing less options to make credits in this change and more dependence on Broadsword. What's the other thing Broadsword could change to increase the chances that the company makes money? Time played. What happens if we make the daily grind take longer? Enter the Advancement: Reputation nerf. Many will play more and/or longer to achieve the same results they were getting a week ago (prior to 7.4.1x). They now have little to no access to new credits or resources, they are playing longer, and their dependency on the man (err Broadsword) is slowly increasing. This process will take forever to effect the players w/ Billions of credits. It is worth noting that Broadsword has acknowledged that there has been some feedback to recent changes and that they are "taking it under advisement." So. The community only ever gets one choice. Should I stay or should I go now? As for me? I have 23 days of playtime left.

I do love this game. I'm sure I'll be back someday.

 

Pulled from page 3

Let me sum up my thoughts. I am supremely frustrated by the changes made on Tuesday. I understand why Broadsword is making these changes. Many of you have stated in this thread that you're providing feedback here "in hopes that...." Your reward? We got the obligatory "we'll take your feedback under advisement" response. Action speaks louder than words. So it's your move Broadsword. Reverse or compromise on your position regarding these changes or don't. My action was to cancel my sub because I'm not the casual player. I'm embarrassed to admit out loud how much time I spend playing your game and how many toons I conquest on weekly. These changes will have an inordinate effect on me. I suspect though that in the grand scheme of sales goals, you're not catering to my kind. As for you the player base. Do or do not. The choice, as I've stated many times in this thread, is yours.

Edited March 16 by Darviset

[Traceguy]

Seasons - Conquest

They've yet to listen to our feedback on seasons. We still get objectives KOTFE Vet. One of the best season objectives is Capital Punishment, yet we only get that like twice a season.

I was looking forward to GS6 especially due to having a new rep track to work on over the next months. Not only did we not get a new rep track, the reward for working on rep has been reduced to atoms.

I don't decorate strongholds, and I really haven't since the day they first released them to the game. I do add stuff to my Imperial Fleet stronghold, but only in a way that it serves as a trophy room.

 

Fitted gear

I can't speak for everyone, but I do like the Fitted gear to a certain degree.

Prior to 7.4.1, When leveling a low level player, trash mobs in the world would drop unique gear for your level range. I say unique because if you leveled up, you would never see this gear again unless some other low level placed it on the GTN. I have seen some really pieces that would go great with some outfits.

Even worse, if you used flashpoints for leveling up, you would miss your chances of getting this gear, and you would never see any of it....ever. The flashpoint gear from bosses is of a different set. And that's also armor that you never see again as you reach different level zones.

At level 80, All I'd get from world mobs were systech. I have deconstructed so much over the years, I have like 20,000-30,000 Scrap and jawa junk in my legacy bank. That's multiple stacks of 9999 It's so bad it's the reason I ask BioSword to put it in the currency tab. I now just sell systech to vendors to make up for the little taxes and fees everywhere.

With fitted gear, I get excited to loot mobs as now it feels like opening a mystery box, and maybe there's a chance I'll get something cool. I do have an alt account that doesn't have CC or collections, so I wouldn't mind finding some cool pieces to donate to it.

Lastly, flashpoint mobs drop Fitted gear. Before, they'd drop only credits, and depending on the flashpoint, decos. This adds a little more reward while doing flashpoints.

 

Date night

I didn't really care when they first announced it and I still really don't care. Adding a weekly cutscene doesn't really impact gameplay in any meaningful way. My original date night with Vette would be doing Black Hole, CZ-198, and Section X.

 

Misc

They've yet to address or fix many of the bugs that have popped up since 7.1, 7.2, and 7.3.

They've yet to address group activity queue times for Satele Shan.

 

Edited March 15 by Traceguy

[Darviset]

And we're back to the "one choice." I wouldn't hold my breath on fixes for old content unless it's somehow game breaking.

[KyraMalakai]

1 hour ago, Darviset said:

Enter the Advancement: Reputation nerf. Many will play more/longer to achieve the same results they were getting a week ago (prior to 7.4.1x).

I totally believe this is what they have in mind but I will not play along, I will play the same time than before but that means a lot of my alts wont't be getting attention which also means they don't need new cartel armours, dyes or weapons, due to this I will not feel the need to create more so no more characters slots purchased. All in all this change will make them loose money.

I also feel like they want to push us into pvp and gsf, two things I enjoy when I want, not when someone is pushing me into it, it is very unlikely that I do something if I think I'm being forced into it.

 

[Traceguy]

1 minute ago, KyraMalakai said:

I totally believe this is what they have in mind but I will not play along, I will play the same time than before but that means a lot of my alts wont't be getting attention which also means they don't need new cartel armours

I agree. I don't want to do more work than I was already doing. It already felt like an all day endeavor outside of work before this nerf . This is just going to demotivate me towards alts and conquests. And half the reason I have a plethora of armor sets in collections is so I can look good while doing conquests on each alt. In turn, the less I care about conquests and alts, the less I'm going to care about Cartel Market.

[DawnAskham]

49 minutes ago, Traceguy said:

Fitted gear

I can't speak for everyone, but I do like the Fitted gear to a certain degree.

Prior to 7.4.1, When leveling a low level player, trash mobs in the world would drop unique gear for your level range. I say unique because if you leveled up, you would never see this gear again unless some other low level placed it on the GTN. I have seen some really pieces that would go great with some outfits.

Even worse, if you used flashpoints for leveling up, you would miss your chances of getting this gear, and you would never see any of it....ever. The flashpoint gear from bosses is of a different set. And that's also armor that you never see again as you reach different level zones.

At level 80, All I'd get from world mobs were systech. I have deconstructed so much over the years, I have like 20,000-30,000 Scrap and jawa junk in my legacy bank. That's multiple stacks of 9999 It's so bad it's the reason I ask BioSword to put it in the currency tab. I now just sell systech to vendors to make up for the little taxes and fees everywhere.

With fitted gear, I get excited to loot mobs as now it feels like opening a mystery box, and maybe there's a chance I'll get something cool. I do have an alt account that doesn't have CC or collections, so I wouldn't mind finding some cool pieces to donate to it.

Lastly, flashpoint mobs drop Fitted gear. Before, they'd drop only credits, and depending on the flashpoint, decos. This adds a little more reward while doing flashpoints.

 

 

 

Fitted gear is garbage - all I've gotten is crap with no stats (useless for combat), ugly low resolution stuff of basic textures and few if any mesh details, and mostly all stuff I can already craft if for some strange reason, I wanted to outfit my characters in ugly old looking junk. And to top it off, I can't sell it or even deconstruct it for something useful.

At 80 it is even more insulting as the items they replaced were at least useful in providing sources of jawa scrap (already in short supply and the ONLY source of SRMs), tech fragments, other currencies, or even just credits.

Maybe if they just highlighted where the majority of this stuff could be crafted and added the rest to a vendor (even in some sort of random for credits / tech frags lock box), it would have gone over as a positive for most player - heck even just making it an addition instead of a replacement along with setting a credit selling price of 1 credit.

As for my thoughts - sadly it's more of the same, changes and additions (this Season is a joke, a reward track filled with literal vendor trash and 'story' missions that are more of the 'go run x for the bazillionth time') that go backwards or alienate players while no progress made on persistent chronic issues and no real new playable content.

Edited March 15 by DawnAskham

[Traceguy]

1 hour ago, DawnAskham said:

Fitted gear is garbage - all I've gotten is crap with no stats

Yeah, Eric did warn us they were just going to be cosmetic, and also warned us it was going to be old gear the was made unobtainable. To be fair we got mostly what should have been expect. Whether or not old flashpoint gear is in the mix, I don't know. There's also gear worn by NPCs in the game that may be unobtainable yet

Edited March 15 by Traceguy

[VegaMist]

3 hours ago, Darviset said:

7.4.1x is live and there are some things that are worth talking about. This isn't a complaint post. For some, this info isn't even really news. But for many of you that are frustrated by recent changes... This post is for you.

OK... I am frustrated, so I guess that means me.

3 hours ago, Darviset said:

So what is the state of SWTOR in early 2024? The 1st thing that everyone should stop and ponder is that Broadsword is a business. They are not a charity. They are here to make money. I applaud this. I'm grateful that they took on SWTOR and will hopefully keep the game around for years to come.

Oh, wow. And all of us here thought it was a church. Thank you for setting us straight. Please continue.

3 hours ago, Darviset said:

What we as players need to do is look at any changes to the game thru this lens. How will this change benefit Broadsword? How will it allow them to further their goals? How will this change help Broadsword make more money? It is a business after all.

We, as users, need to do no such thing. They need to figure out how their updates benefit us. And they need to benefit us enough in order for us to continue being paying customers (and as a result, make Broadsword money). When you buy a new car, do you buy a printed poster of a car for $50K just to benefit the company you're buying it from? I don't think so. The said car should have enough features that benefit you in order for you to justify parting with your money, and, if it doesn't, you'll look somewhere else. In a case of an MMO, our time is also a currency - and a finite one at that. Whatever updates they release need to be good enough for us to continue spending our time and our money in this game vs any other. Because it takes at least two for any business transaction, and we're no charity either.

3 hours ago, Darviset said:

Let's look at the new xmog/cosmetics that are dropping. Since 7.4.1x's release, these new items have all but replaced potential upgrades, a source of credits, and Jawa Junk production thru deconstruction. Now, If this were a mistake, Broadsword would have made adjusting the drop rate of these items a top priority.

They already admitted this part was a mistake and will be adjusted in one of the upcoming patches.

3 hours ago, Darviset said:

What was the first hotfix/top priority post 7.4.1 you ask? Fixing an issue w/ a Cartel Market bundle mount that was not working as intended. See the above priority (Business here to make money.) So we're seeing less options to make credits in this change and more dependence on Broadsword.

Considering how many Cartrel Market items have been broken for years with no attention given to fixing them, this doesn't seem like a likely reason. Here is my speculation. They fixed the mount first because a) it was a simple fix, and they actually knew how to fix it, and b) if you read the patch notes, the real reason for the Hot Fix was "Galactic Seasons 6 Blueprint Fragments are now Bind on Pickup" (again, only announced after the patch) and they used the mount fix as a cover up.

3 hours ago, Darviset said:

What's the other thing Broadsword could change to increase the chances that the company makes money? Time played. So what happens if we make the daily grind take longer? Enter the Advancement: Reputation nerf. Many will play more/longer to achieve the same results they were getting a week ago (prior to 7.4.1x). They now have little to no access to new credits or resources, they are playing longer, and their dependency on the man (err Broadsword) is slowly increasing. This process will take forever to effect the players w/ Billions of credits. It is worth noting that Broadsword has acknowledged that there has been some feedback to recent changes and that they are "taking it under advisement."

In order to get players to spend more time in the game, players need to feel their time is worth it. Grind is a balance. You make it too fast and easy, players speed through it and are left wondering what's next. You make it too slow and difficult, and players will abandon it part way or not even start at all. With this update, they didn't just cross the line of what most players found acceptable - they run over it at a high speed and disappeared into the horizon (kind of like the Roadrunner). And their "acknowledgment" - I assume you mean that condescending post from Eric - just added an insult to the injury (whoever wrote it could use some training in customer communications).

3 hours ago, Darviset said:

So. The community only ever gets one choice. Should I stay or should I go now? As for me? I have 23 days of playtime left.

I do love this game. I'm sure I'll be back

When a large portion of players leave, every single one of those who are left is effected. You choose to stay for now, but you may feel different if the game suddenly becomes a ghost town. It's been a while since I've seen such a mass rejection of any single update. Keep in mind that most people don't come to the forum to let their feelings known - they just leave. And then add to that that the most talked about issue (Conquest points nerf) was not even the biggest problem with this patch - that place goes to the login issues which weren't even mentioned in Eric's letter, and if your users can't login everything else becomes irrelevant.

Edited March 15 by VegaMist
Typos (it's always typos)

[Specialbrew]

You had a very good oppurtunity, to do a proper, either reroll, or something the community, really wanted, instead you made the game way worse, guess thats one way to kill a game, without killing a game eh EA

[Traceguy]

2 hours ago, Darviset said:

The 1st thing that everyone should stop and ponder is that Broadsword is a business. They are not a charity. They are here to make money.

You forget 1 key aspect. Everybody posting to this forum can do so because they have paid to do so. Broadsword is here to make money because we give them money. Broadsword isn't aiming to make more money by nerfing personal objectives. That's going to have a reverse effect. WoW is popping out dungeons and raids. Blizzard is  in it to make money. Broadsword seems bored at work and just looking for things to muck about with. They didn't even do a PTS for 7.4.1. That could have solved a good chunk of problems.

Edited March 15 by Traceguy

[Inkaine]

21 minutes ago, VegaMist said:

Long and detailed reply to OP that reflects my feelings very well.

Just want to thank you for doing what OP should have done: breaking his long-winded "oh mighty corpo defense" post into readable paragraphs.

[Darviset]

21 minutes ago, Traceguy said:

You forget 1 key aspect. Everybody posting to this forum can do so because they have paid to do so. Broadsword is here to make money because we give them money. Broadsword isn't aiming to make more money by nerfing personal objectives. That's going to have a reverse effect. WoW is popping out dungeons and raids. Blizzard is  in it to make money. Broadsword seems bored at work and just looking for things to muck about with. They didn't even do a PTS for 7.4.1. That could have solved a good chunk of problems.

I'm in no way suggesting that they are doing a stellar job. Just that if you stop and think about the why behind a change it may give you some perspective and perhaps less frustration.

[xxSHOONYxx]

23 hours ago, Darviset said:

What we as players need to do is look at any changes to the game thru this lens.

• How will this change benefit Broadsword?
• How will it allow them to further their goals?
• How will this change help Broadsword make more money?

Sounds like a dev went undercover and post itself as a user, this is just too funny.
Account created the same day the patch came out, so maybe not funny and more like sad. 

That's not something the user needs to worry, the company needs to make a product good enough to attract the players and if the product is bad then though luck for them they either lose customers or go bankrupt. Let's be real, this game won't go bankrupt because there are still people here that have wet dreams over CM items and open their wallets. 
But as a product, quality is not there and being devils advocate to BS it was not there as BW either. If people don't like the direction the game has been taken for ages people need to just leave, their wallet (or lack thereof) will catch the devs attention more than any forum post crying would. 

Edited March 16 by xxSHOONYxx

[VegaMist]

20 minutes ago, xxSHOONYxx said:

Sounds like a dev went undercover and post itself as a user, this is just too funny.
Account created the same day the patch came out, so maybe not funny and more like sad. 

Agreed 

[MsViolet]

Quote

What's the other thing Broadsword could change to increase the chances that the company makes money? Time played. What happens if we make the daily grind take longer? Enter the Advancement: Reputation nerf. Many will play more and/or longer to achieve the same results they were getting a week ago (prior to 7.4.1x).

I can only speak for myself, but if that was the intent of the nerf, then it backfired about as badly as it could have.

Since Tuesday, I have not been playing the game more. I have not been playing it at all.

When progressing through the game becomes slower, more tedious, and more boring ... Why would that make me want to play the game more?

I haven't even bothered to log in to earn Login Rewards, which is something I have done every day for a very long time, even during the months that I was taking a break from the game and no longer actively playing it.

And I am not the only one who has. At least I am giving the developers a chance to make amends. Some players I know have already cancelled their subscriptions and uninstalled the game from their computers.

Edited March 15 by MsViolet

[VegaMist]

2 hours ago, Darviset said:

I'm in no way suggesting that they are doing a stellar job. Just that if you stop and think about the why behind a change it may give you some perspective and perhaps less frustration.

That's reversed login. It's not our job to think from their perspective - it's their job to consider ours (that is the whole premise of user experience).

[PeterGun-SWE]

This is my response, since i had a genuine feeling that Broadsword wouldn't play fair!

 

 And the penalty will be most likely a loss of community respect, and subscribers!!! 

 

[Luciferior]

@Traceguy Ill be honest if i had 20-30k jawa junk sitting in my bank id haul jets to the cartel bazaar and buy a crap ton of solid resource matrix's then post em on the GTN at a reduced price 

 

Not to mention im holding onto every single piece of that fitted gear i get so when it finally can be listed on the GTN i can see if its truly of value to someone else or if its vendor trash if i dont like how it looks my self

 

I can understand peoples hesitation with broadsword about what they may or may not do to improve the game but im gona go out on a limb here and say bioware made it clear they werent going to do squat to improve the game 

 

Some of these changes might of been set in stone prior to the change over from bioware to broadsword And tbh im not expecting broadsword to flip the script already

I feel like 8.0 assuming im still here and able to play the game is going to be big deciding factor that makes it reasonably clear if broadsword plans on doing anything differently from bioware... or more of the same crap

 

Not to mention 8.0 is probably going to be held under a magnifying glass by the player base while being balanced on the scales of life and death its self as certain aspects of the game do require some degree of attention

*Imo* PvP warzones bringing back rated games and show galactic star fighter some attention instead of ignoring it

The current pvp seasons some might like it but it sure feels like its killing off what little of the PvP player base that remains..

I like shiny metallic dyes as much as the next end game fashion weeb but shiny dyes arent going to get me to resub... Showing PvP love for warzones possibly bringing back rated 8v8s and galactic star fighter *Will* get me to resub

While I love PvE story content imma go ahead and quote a line from the BH class story mission when facing the eildon to which the bounty hunter says "Sometimes a body gets bored and wants a challenge" ....Meaning vs other players and in order to do that PvP has to turn around 

 

[captainbladejk]

5 hours ago, Darviset said:

7.4.1x is live and there are some things that are worth talking about. This isn't a complaint post. For some, this info isn't even really news. But for many of you that are frustrated by recent changes... This post is for you. What is the state of SWTOR in early 2024? The 1st thing that everyone should stop and ponder is that Broadsword is a business. They are not a charity. They are here to make money. I applaud this. I'm grateful that they took on SWTOR and will hopefully keep the game around for years to come. What we as players need to do is look at any changes to the game thru this lens.

• How will this change benefit Broadsword?
• How will it allow them to further their goals?
• How will this change help Broadsword make more money?

50k credits says this guy is Eric or one of the other devs on a personal account trying to make it look like someone out their agrees with their foolishness so they can point to it and be like "see these people agree, the rest of you are just wrong". Especially considering the account only joined the forums on Tuesday. If it's not then it may as well be for all that condescending corporate double speak I just read. You didn't just drink the kool-aid, you full on belly flopped into an ocean of it and started your own kool-aid dwelling civilization that would make even the Mon Cals jealous. 

Oh where to begin. First up, we're aware it's a business and were never under the illusion it's not. Second, they are not owed our support or continued support for simply existing and slapping a Star Wars label on something. Someone wants my support for something, earn it. Give me reasons to want to support you.

Third, what you need to learn is that there are two sides to every transactions with the business being just one of them, and the customer the second. The goal of the business is to make as much money as they can without having to spend more than they have to. Likewise my goal as a customer is to get as much value as I can without spending more than I have to. To try and get me to hand over money they present what they believe will get the most of my money for the least investment. If I believe what they're offering is of equal or greater value than the money they're trying to get from me, I will hand over the cash. If I believe it's not then I won't hand over my money and thus we negotiate on a compromise we can both accept. If I as the customer feel they're wanting way too much of my cash for way too little value and no compromise can be had, then I'm not going to agree to the transaction and the business misses out on my money. Doesn't take too many missed transactions for a business to be in trouble. 

Beyond just my cash, my time is also a resource. Any normal person is going to look at what Broadsword or any company asks of their time and money, then make a judgement call as to whether what is being asked is worth their time and money. If they feel it's not they will walk away or offer a compromise. In this instance people who have already paid to even have access to these forums, are straight telling Broadsword that they're demanding way too much time and money for too little value in return. Broadsword will either listen and realize they screwed up and revert the nerfs thus keeping people around, or they won't and they'll do further harm to their game. You want my time and money, earn them. It's your job as a business to convince me to invest my time and money and to look at what I want. It's not my job to think for them, only myself. 

6 hours ago, Darviset said:

It is a business after all. Let's look at the new xmog/cosmetics that are dropping. Since 7.4.1x's release, these new items have all but replaced potential upgrades, a source of credits, and Jawa Junk production thru deconstruction. Now, If this were a mistake, Broadsword would have made adjusting the drop rate of these items a top priority. What was the first hotfix post patch you ask? Fixing an issue w/ a Cartel Market bundle mount that was not working as intended. See the above priority (Business here to make money.) As a result the community begins to become less self-reliant and more dependent on what Broadsword will allow you to have or what you purchase thru the Cartel Market. See above priority. So we're seeing less options to make credits in this change and more dependence on Broadsword.

On this part, holy hutt vaults man, paragraph breaks are a thing. Split this off as it's its own point. I will somewhat agree with you on one thing, changing gear drops and removing the sources of scrap and such was no mistake despite them trying to spin it as one. Your understanding of game development is woefully lacking here. So first off, every cartel item that's on the cartel market had to be paid for with real cash at some point somewhere. Whether it's 1 step back in the chain or 10. Someone at some point paid cash to get the coins to buy that item directly or drop it from a pack. The issue with the mount was fixed first because it was leading to a crash, as in the game can't be accessed at all.

Yes you should address critical issues first. However that doesn't mean you ignore other issues that arise either. To illustrate this, let's make it a points game. You have 25 labor points that you can invest in each development cycle with unspent points being lost, and all issues that weren't fixed carrying over to the next cycle. Critical issues are 7 points, moderate issues that are bad but not critical are worth 4 points, and smallest issues are worth 1 point. There may be some cycles you spend your points on 3 critical issues and a moderate issue leaving you with no room for smaller stuff. Sometimes things break and it happens. However most patches are not that, and if they are you have bigger issues to worry about. Now let's suppose you have a patch that's 2 critical issues, and 2 moderate issues, that's only 22 of your points. Now you could roll the patch out as is forgoing the extra 3 points, or you could roll 3 of the smaller issues in so it doesn't pile up on you. Internally you may have your team telling you "sir this is a moderate issue" with something like the rep nerf. However the largest number of customers are telling you that it's a critical issue and it either gets reverted/fixed or they walk. Without customers there is no business and no game. So that makes it a critical issue despite what their team wants to tell them. 

Also on this point, someone having millions and even billions of credits is not a crime so long as it was earned legitimately by playing the game or flipping cartel market items they've bought. See above on this point, every cartel item on the GTN was purchased at some point or generated as a result of a purchase. Whether it's 1 step back or 10 is irrelevant. With a game like SWTOR you need people spending money certainly. But you also need people in the seats playing your game too. Both have their place and are equally as important. As a very VERY rudimentary example, free to play folks often generate credits to buy things through gameplay they use to buy things off the GTN. A whale aka spender buys things from cartel market in hopes of flipping for credits. Whale buys from cartel market thus broadsword gets paid, whale sells item to free to play guy for credits and whale gets the credits he wants, free to play gets cartel item he wants. 

6 hours ago, Darviset said:

 What's the other thing Broadsword could change to increase the chances that the company makes money? Time played. What happens if we make the daily grind take longer? Enter the Advancement: Reputation nerf. Many will play more and/or longer to achieve the same results they were getting a week ago (prior to 7.4.1x). They now have little to no access to new credits or resources, they are playing longer, and their dependency on the man (err Broadsword) is slowly increasing. This process will take forever to effect the players w/ Billions of credits. It is worth noting that Broadsword has acknowledged that there has been some feedback to recent changes and that they are "taking it under advisement." So. The community only ever gets one choice. Should I stay or should I go now? As for me? I have 23 days of playtime left.

I do love this game. I'm sure I'll be back.

See above, if you want me to invest my time/money into your game/product, EARN IT. Give me equal or greater value to my cash/time and you'll have that investment. For many they're no longer getting an equal or greater value back on their investment and are making that known. 

Also on this point, having billions of credits is not a crime or against the rules of the game. So long as they either generated those credits themselves or acquired them through flipping things on GTN what's the issue other than you not liking them having those credits? As for the "community only gets one choice" thing, yeah no that's not how that works. You don't own me or the playerbase and you have zero understanding of how a business relationship works. If you expect to stay in business you keep your investors happy so they keep coming back to you. Them investing their time and money into you is a privilege, not a right. 

3 hours ago, Darviset said:

I'm in no way suggesting that they are doing a stellar job. Just that if you stop and think about the why behind a change it may give you some perspective and perhaps less frustration.

Including this second post of yours here as it's relevant. Do you seriously hear yourself right now dude? Again talk about condescending corporate speak. I've thought about why they might have done it and they're still wrong.

Unfortunately for you I actually do have experience developing things for games. I have many a successful mod out there for older games such as Star Trek Armada II, along with mods for Space Engineers being my most recent stuff. Both of those games I've essentially re-written to my vision. I've also created many maps for said games along with many of my TimeSplitters Future Perfect maps being EA recommended for weeks at the time. Whether it's small time modding or AAA studio productions, it's the same process with the only difference being in scale. 

One thing I learned early on is that I can't force people to play how I want them to play or do what I want them to do. If I try to force them they're just going to leave and not play my content. When developing a map or item and I want a person to visit or use, I have to answer the question of: why would I ever go there or use that item? If I as the developer can't think of a good enough reason to go there or use that item, then how can I expect the players to do so? If I want a person to go to specific section of my map, I have to give them reasons to want to go there. It could be a stronger weapon, extra health/armor packs, safest place to fight certain foes, or what have you. You make it worth their time to go to that section of the map and use said item and they generally will. It doesn't matter how good of a reason I think I gave to use that item or go to that map, it matters how they think I did. If you don't care how many play your content, you can do as you please. If you want as many people playing your content as you can get, then your audience is the final judge and jury on how well you did. Sometimes you get it right, and sometimes you don't. I've had some big hits and spectacular misses both. If I have a bunch of people telling me that my content isn't good or that I put something out that's subpar, I can do one of two things. I can either double down and try to convince them that they're all wrong and just don't know what they really want and lose my audience. Or I can admit I got it wrong and make the appropriate adjustments. 

Right now Broadsword is attempting to double down and convince everyone they're right and everyone else is too dumb to know what we really want. To be blunt if they were working for me and pulled a stunt like that with the "too bad so sad" post and disrespected my customers like that, I would've fired every last one of them and issued a formal apology before making things right. Having healthy confidence in your work is one thing, but delusion is something else. As a developer you are not always right and sometimes you do miss the mark. If you can't accept that then you have no business in game development at the AAA level or small time modder level. 

Lastly on this point. There's another old saying, if it aint broke don't fix it. There was ZERO need or justification for the rep objective being nerfed. The actual process of me claiming it may take about 2 seconds. However I still have to put in the work to obtain those tokens to start with. If I get 10 rep tokens from 10 flashpoints, I still ground out the 10 flashpoints and it's still the same amount of rep whether I do it all at once or later. Either way I earned that reward. The conversation would also be a little different if there were objectives that made up for the lost 225k points per week, but there isn't. Either way they are objectively wrong in this area, but their hubris won't allow them to see it. 

[Darviset]

WoW... Where to begin on the above post. lol. Change is the only constant man. Like it or not. You can CHOOSE to see reality or can rail against it. I don't care either way. I was merely giving a perspective that might alleviate a little of the frustration. Bioware is out. Broadsword is in. I assure you they are going to make money from this endeavor or they will dish this to another company. As I said. Like it or not. It is ENTIRELY up to you. There's writing... on the wall... right here... /shrug GL in there.

[captainbladejk]

1 hour ago, Darviset said:

WoW... Where to begin on the above post. lol. Change is the only constant man. Like it or not. You can CHOOSE to see reality or can rail against it. I don't care either way. I was merely giving a perspective that might alleviate a little of the frustration. Bioware is out. Broadsword is in. I assure you they are going to make money from this endeavor or they will dish this to another company. As I said. Like it or not. It is ENTIRELY up to you. There's writing... on the wall... right here... /shrug GL in there.

There's good change and bad change. As a customer I am telling them if they intend to alter the business arrangement then this is what they're going to do or I will stop giving them my cash. Simple as that. As for the rest of what you said, the fact that you're pulling the "just give up and accept it" convinces me you're a dev on an undercover account. And if you're not then you speak in enough corporate double talk to qualify

[Darviset]

11 minutes ago, captainbladejk said:

There's good change and bad change. As a customer I am telling them if they intend to alter the business arrangement then this is what they're going to do or I will stop giving them my cash. Simple as that. As for the rest of what you said, the fact that you're pulling the "just give up and accept it" convinces me you're a dev on an undercover account. And if you're not then you speak in enough corporate double talk to qualify

Change in and of itself is indifferent. It's Binary, a 1 or a 0. We attribute the emotion or feeling of good or bad. If you actually read the original post in this thread you'd know that that's what i've encouraged EVERYONE to do. Choose for yourself. Am i ok w/ these changes or not? Should i continue paying a sub or not? All I'm saying is that a business has decided to take on the role of managing SWTOR. If you think that they aren't out to MAXIMIZE profit, then i might have some oceanfront property in AZ to sell ya. Super Cheap!

Edited March 16 by Darviset

[VegaMist]

59 minutes ago, Darviset said:

Change in and of itself is indifferent. It's Binary, a 1 or a 0. We attribute the emotion or feeling of good or bad. If you actually read the original post in this thread you'd know that that's what i've encouraged EVERYONE to do. Choose for yourself. Am i ok w/ these changes or not? Should i continue paying a sub or not? All I'm saying is that a business has decided to take on the role of managing SWTOR. If you think that they?.0* aren't out to MAXIMIZE profit, then i might have some oceanfront property in AZ to sell ya. Super Cheap!

Good luck trying to "maximize profits" by alienating your customers. Every company that ever tried that found out the hard way that it doesn't work. But sure, it will be different this one time in your specific case - keep telling yourself that.

[TrixxieTriss]

11 hours ago, Darviset said:

7.4.1x is live and there are some things that are worth talking about. This isn't a complaint post. For some, this info isn't even really news. But for many of you that are frustrated by recent changes... This post is for you. What is the state of SWTOR in early 2024? The 1st thing that everyone should stop and ponder is that Broadsword is a business. They are not a charity. They are here to make money. I applaud this. I'm grateful that they took on SWTOR and will hopefully keep the game around for years to come. What we as players need to do is look at any changes to the game thru this lens.

• How will this change benefit Broadsword?
• How will it allow them to further their goals?
• How will this change help Broadsword make more money?

It is a business after all. Let's look at the new xmog/cosmetics that are dropping. Since 7.4.1x's release, these new items have all but replaced potential upgrades, a source of credits, and Jawa Junk production thru deconstruction. Now, If this were a mistake, Broadsword would have made adjusting the drop rate of these items a top priority. What was the first hotfix post patch you ask? Fixing an issue w/ a Cartel Market bundle mount that was not working as intended. See the above priority (Business here to make money.) As a result the community begins to become less self-reliant and more dependent on what Broadsword will allow you to have or what you purchase thru the Cartel Market. See above priority. So we're seeing less options to make credits in this change and more dependence on Broadsword. What's the other thing Broadsword could change to increase the chances that the company makes money? Time played. What happens if we make the daily grind take longer? Enter the Advancement: Reputation nerf. Many will play more and/or longer to achieve the same results they were getting a week ago (prior to 7.4.1x). They now have little to no access to new credits or resources, they are playing longer, and their dependency on the man (err Broadsword) is slowly increasing. This process will take forever to effect the players w/ Billions of credits. It is worth noting that Broadsword has acknowledged that there has been some feedback to recent changes and that they are "taking it under advisement." So. The community only ever gets one choice. Should I stay or should I go now? As for me? I have 23 days of playtime left.

I do love this game. I'm sure I'll be back

It’s well & good to defend the state of the game on BS being a business first & needing money. But I think you forget that we are paying customers & if we all leave or stop paying because we are displeased with their ideas, changes & lack of communication on certain topics, they will make no money, have no game & be out of a job. 

[TrixxieTriss]

9 hours ago, Traceguy said:

Yeah, Eric did warn us they were just going to be cosmetic, and also warned us it was going to be old gear the was made unobtainable. To be fair we got mostly what should have been expect. Whether or not old flashpoint gear is in the mix, I don't know. There's also gear worn by NPCs in the game that may be unobtainable yet

They should have just put it on some fleet vendors. Then they would have had another credit sink. The old gear drops should have remained. It doesn’t matter if you could sell them on the GTN or not after the last changes. At least they were useful as you level’s or needed to deconstruct for tech frags & Jawa junk. The way this had been done was poorly thought out. Maybe if they’d had some open two way discussions with the community, we could have explained the issues with this design & offered up solutions that actually work. Ie just put this stuff on some fleet vendors to sell cheap 🤦‍♀️. I think what the most annoying thing with swtor’s development over the years is 90% of all the problems that piss players off could have been resolved or avoided if the dev teams had just communicated with the community more openly & more often. It’s a mistake they continue to repeat so often it’s become a meme. 

Edited March 16 by TrixxieTriss