APAC Shae Vizla Server will kill Satele Shan Server

[TrixxieTriss]

31 minutes ago, eabevella said:

Even a less extreme example: Star Wars Galaxy of Heroes. A mobile game where you can spend 2-3hr a day grinding arenas for all the materials in order to get powerful characters/ships that are not locked behind some insane lottery mechanic, but the whales can still drop 1000USD to buy and gear the latest, most powerful characters on the day of release and dominate the arenas, which is the main game content. That's P2W

Yep I play that too & it’s definitely P2W. The prices are really extreme, but I still see people who’ve obviously spent thousands of dollars on it. I can proudly say I’ve never spent any cash in that game. I’ve collected just about everything except the 8 galactic legends & some associated ships. Most of my top characters are 4-6 blue or red ringed. And I still beat most of the people who’ve been spending lots of money 😂. My guild hasn’t lost a territory war in 18 months. 

[TrixxieTriss]

18 minutes ago, FlatTax said:

Pay-to-win: Any gameplay advantage (including PvE) provided by a microtransaction.

Period.

We don’t have pay to win in swtor. 

[MotherCrusher]

21 minutes ago, FlatTax said:

Pay-to-win: Any gameplay advantage (including PvE) provided by a microtransaction.

Period.

pay for convinience and pay to win are 2 different things,

pay to WIN, by DEFINITION, means you're paying to WIN something, not simply to get convinience. it is literally in the name.

[eabevella]

1 minute ago, TrixxieTriss said:

Yep I play that too & it’s definitely P2W. The prices are really extreme, but I still see people who’ve obviously spent thousands of dollars on it. I can proudly say I’ve never spent any cash in that game. I’ve collected just about everything except the 8 galactic legends & some associated ships. Most of my top characters are 4-6 blue or red ringed. And I still beat most of the people who’ve been spending lots of money 😂. My guild hasn’t lost a territory war in 18 months. 

I used to grind hard in GoH to stay at top of the arenas but I quit shortly after they released the KOTOR toons because the grind became harder and more pro-P2W and the time to climb in arena is not really friendly irl (6-7pm so it's either dinner or traffic time for me)

[TrixxieTriss]

6 minutes ago, eabevella said:

I used to grind hard in GoH to stay at top of the arenas but I quit shortly after they released the KOTOR toons because the grind became harder and more pro-P2W and the time to climb in arena is not really friendly irl (6-7pm so it's either dinner or traffic time for me)

Yeah, it can be annoying when my reminder goes off while I’m in traffic & such. 

[casirabit]

8 hours ago, TrixxieTriss said:

Or it could just mean they updated the technology to accommodate everyone on one server 🤷🏻‍♀️

There could be one problem with merging SS with SF as Star Forge does have role-players and Satela Shan doesn't. I went through the merging of servers too  many times to count and the last time, they merged us with non-roleplayers, you would not believe what we had to put up with.   It bad enough when they tell you that you should go to your stronghold or somewhere else, right now but add more to that. 

[TrixxieTriss]

22 minutes ago, casirabit said:

There could be one problem with merging SS with SF as Star Forge does have role-players and Satela Shan doesn't. I went through the merging of servers too  many times to count and the last time, they merged us with non-roleplayers, you would not believe what we had to put up with.   It bad enough when they tell you that you should go to your stronghold or somewhere else, right now but add more to that. 

I don’t disagree. I just making a point that one super server doesn’t mean the game is failing. I still think leaving it as 2 servers & allowing discounted transfers is the less contentious solution. 
But a lot of SS players have already migrated to SF. So I don’t think a merge of different populations would make much more of an impact than it already is for RPers on SF (and I agree, it sucks they do that to RPers) 

[Darkestmonty]

2 hours ago, casirabit said:

There could be one problem with merging SS with SF as Star Forge does have role-players and Satela Shan doesn't. I went through the merging of servers too  many times to count and the last time, they merged us with non-roleplayers, you would not believe what we had to put up with.   It bad enough when they tell you that you should go to your stronghold or somewhere else, right now but add more to that. 

if you are going to ERP, which is the only RP I see on Star Forge, use a stronghold for privacy. Standing on fleet using gen chat probably isn't going to stop people from interfering.

Pretending all RP is respected on Star Forge and persecuted on Satele Shan is silly. I play bother servers, have for years, people make fun of RP no matter what server you are on when it is done in public especially when you are using gen chat.

Edited November 23, 2023 by Darkestmonty

[Shayddow]

Quote

My only gripe is when you create a new class, it doesn’t seem to let you choose what combat spec you want. Ie, if you choose a Jugg, you are automatically made a Vengeance Jugg. I don’t know if this is a bug or not. I went to fleet to change it like you used to be able to. But found the respec trainer nolonger offers that. I had to use CC to open up the field respec feature in my legacy😞

You can change your spec in any rest zone (i.e. cantina) I know I did that for my Jugg (changed to Immortal) that I rolled up in Shae.

I have listened to the chat over on Shae, and it seems that most people don't want to see transfers because the economy is better off without the tons of credits that came about due to bugs & etc. back in the history of the game. I think that it would be possible to let people transfer without ruining the economy IF they put a limit, say 1 million credits - on the number of credits people brought with them, and limited the transfers to one per month.

 

[FlatTax]

8 hours ago, TrixxieTriss said:

We don’t have pay to win in swtor. 

Microtransactions leak into every core game system: progression, gearing, and crafting. On top of our subscriptions.

If that doesn't register to people here, well, it explains a lot about the state of the industry. @JackieKo, the Emperor will be pleased.

Edited November 23, 2023 by FlatTax

[Lord_Malganus]

4 hours ago, Shayddow said:

I have listened to the chat over on Shae, and it seems that most people don't want to see transfers because the economy is better off .

 

Then all is well.

[MotherCrusher]

41 minutes ago, FlatTax said:

Microtransactions leak into every core game system: progression, gearing, and crafting. On top of our subscriptions.

If that doesn't register to people here, well, it explains a lot about the state of the industry. @JackieKo, the Emperor will be pleased.

take off your tinfoil hat and point me to a player that has obtained a significant advantage by spending money that cannot be easily done with in game credits.

[Screaming_Ziva]

On 11/21/2023 at 2:54 PM, TrixxieTriss said:

You’re correct. Opening it up to all players would open it up for abuse. Which is why I said only for APAC located players to move their legacy back to APAC. 

I don't understand how allowing transfers for everyone would open it up for abuse?  Are you saying that all APAC players are poor and don't have any credits to transfer over?

[Cayerala]

Frankly speaking, opening up transfers and simply implementing a credit cap between 10-50mil, would not destroy the server. I completely understand BroadSwords aim's of wanting to look at how a fresh economy is able to adept and develop itself over time (where people start fresh, and have to do heroics/missions etc to grind), but there must also be a time where it is absolutely vital for transfers to be open. 

I think a month is more than sufficient for Broadsword to gather the data they require, especially when most people are nearing endgame on the new server. For instance, I myself already have 336 gear, and I am about to be fully min/maxed, and will have 330 implants within the next several days. Broadsword needs to understand that whilst giving new players/old players time to adjust to the server, and not make it overwhelming, they also need to reunite the APAC players who have stuck with SWTOR. If they further delay the transfers any further to 2 months and longer, it is just going to decentivise players returning, and currently endgame PvP and PvE (although with the help of Tauntaun War Veterans) is barely popping/non-existent.

I am guessing that this will change with time and over the next several weeks, but without the older players/other APAC players that are stuck on SS/SF, there is the potential for players to be frustrated with how they are unable to complete endgame content.

I really do hope BroadSword acts fact with the transfers, because again, the new server is fantastic and we should use every opportunity to build up the APAC community in this game. However, as I stated character transfers are essential for this process, but also BroadSword needs to ensure that new players/returning players, stay with this game and that requires frequent updates with actual content that is targeted towards endgame. 

[Toraak]

1 hour ago, MotherCrusher said:

take off your tinfoil hat and point me to a player that has obtained a significant advantage by spending money that cannot be easily done with in game credits.

As many times as many of us have told him (or her) that they have the wrong definition of P2W. They will never listen, and will keep barking at the community with that wrong definition claiming Swtor has P2W when it doesn't.

[FlatTax]

10 hours ago, eabevella said:

So where's the advantage I can buy with that beautiful USA dollar?

How much does a piece of 340 gear cost? 5USD? 10USD? Where can I buy it in the Cartel Market? I really need the advantage you know.

Easy example:

Literally anything worth having in the Cash Shop, which functions like another premium currency and launders cash into core game systems. If you want to Aug-out an endgame character, nothing comes close to the efficiency of Cash-to-Credits conversions on the GTN.

It's the thinnest of shell games.

Or:

Crystals are literal BiS gear for direct sale.

[Lord_Malganus]

On the announcement thread that SV was coming, I said a free server transfer to get started with should have been given to APAC players. Of course it was ignored by Broadsword and players alike. Now the reality of no transfers = starting all over with a new legacy is sinking in and leading into economy and other debates. It's no wonder they ignore player input.

[Toraak]

6 minutes ago, FlatTax said:

Easy example:

Literally anything worth having in the Cash Shop, which functions like another premium currency and launders cash into core game systems. If you want to Aug-out an endgame character, nothing comes close to the efficiency of Cash-to-Credits conversions on the GTN.

It's the thinnest of shell games.

Or:

Crystals are literal BiS gear for direct sale.

Well since I got fully augmented without spending a dime on the cash shop. It isn't P2W, so your wrong.

 

For swtor to have a P2W mechanic you'd have to be able to purchase 360 gear from the shop, and you couldn't get it anywhere in game at all.

[Desrao]

12 minutes ago, FlatTax said:

Easy example:

Literally anything worth having in the Cash Shop, which functions like another premium currency and launders cash into core game systems. If you want to Aug-out an endgame character, nothing comes close to the efficiency of Cash-to-Credits conversions on the GTN.

It's the thinnest of shell games.

Or:

Crystals are literal BiS gear for direct sale.

Lmao “Crystals are pay to win” is the funniest thing I’ve heard in awhile.

Just stick with the cc to credits, credits buy augments argument next time bro, I disagree it’s pay to win but at least there was some logic there.

Augments are not going to be the game changing thing you are making it out to be and every response since someone has said point to where this is pay 2 win has gotten progressively more dumb, but at least we are being entertained. The only way you are going to win in the hardest content in this game is by knowing how to play your class and the actual gear (not augments or crystals). And it’s even more true now that they nerfed some ops.

FFS the first boss in R4 is a mechanics check first and foremost with a burn at the end. I can’t even imagine someone thinking that they are going to try to pay their way to the endgame.

do me a favor, take a class you don’t understand how it works, put all gold augments and your best lightsaber crystals and tell me how far you get. 

[xxSHOONYxx]

14 minutes ago, Desrao said:

FFS the first boss in R4 is a mechanics check first and foremost with a burn at the end. I can’t even imagine someone thinking that they are going to try to pay their way to the endgame.

Technically, most of the ops on highest difficulty are so easy they can be sold/bought in 8 man. So you could "pay to win" to get the achievements/gear/cosmetic drops.

[Desrao]

Just now, xxSHOONYxx said:

Technically, most of the ops on highest difficulty are so easy they can be sold/bought in 8 man. So you could "pay to win" to get the achievements/gear/cosmetic drops.

That’s not being offered in game silly goose. That’s not what pay to win in the context of what we are talking about, that’s someone paying a third party and explicitly against ToS.

 

Even if the launch of this game was 100% successful, no CM was ever added, and the game killed World of Warcraft, that type of transaction would be there. 

[xxSHOONYxx]

11 minutes ago, Desrao said:

That’s not being offered in game silly goose. That’s not what pay to win in the context of what we are talking about, that’s someone paying a third party and explicitly against ToS.

 

Even if the launch of this game was 100% successful, no CM was ever added, and the game killed World of Warcraft, that type of transaction would be there. 

It would, but there is a difference between earing the credits through game to pay for that carry, than buying on cc to sell items on gtn to then buy the carry. And there were a LOT of people buying them

Sales for credits/items don't think is are against tos since some people even go to forum to advertise their sale teams, RMT on the other hand is baneable and against tos.

This game and cc can't be "money = better than everyone", but it can be "money = everything you want". 

CM is aids though, everything cool ends up there and for in game items you just get recolored old sets.
But it's not the point of the post so not even point to talking about it too much.

[Desrao]

I’m not saying that the CM is good, just that it’s not pay 2 win. And I know that WoW devs have okayed gold for carry services in game but I’m not so sure it’s okayed by these devs.

also I’m not the one to really care much in the first place. PVE isn’t competitive, I play for my own progression and wouldn’t pay for a carry. 
 

My biggest gripes for the CM are more in line with your last opinion, that it demotivates playing the actual game for good rewards. Like that’s the biggest tragedy with CM being so successful at funding the game up to this point. It’s a quick and easy way to get things that could be proper motivators for endgame and even mid core content. I’m also jaded by how absolutely atrocious the R4 set looks, but taste is subjective lmao 

[FlatTax]

1 hour ago, Desrao said:

Lmao “Crystals are pay to win” is the funniest thing I’ve heard in awhile.

This is instructive.

EA is literally selling best-in-slot gear, and you don't care because it's just a little.

We shouldn't be the Niemöller of unethical business practices.

"When they came for me, there was no one left to speak out."

Edited November 23, 2023 by FlatTax
Clarity

[xxSHOONYxx]

42 minutes ago, Desrao said:

I’m not saying that the CM is good, just that it’s not pay 2 win. And I know that WoW devs have okayed gold for carry services in game but I’m not so sure it’s okayed by these devs.

also I’m not the one to really care much in the first place. PVE isn’t competitive, I play for my own progression and wouldn’t pay for a carry. 
 

My biggest gripes for the CM are more in line with your last opinion, that it demotivates playing the actual game for good rewards. Like that’s the biggest tragedy with CM being so successful at funding the game up to this point. It’s a quick and easy way to get things that could be proper motivators for endgame and even mid core content. I’m also jaded by how absolutely atrocious the R4 set looks, but taste is subjective lmao 

The forum example about sales was for swtor. 
Like 80-85% of the buyers are rpers that want titles or cosmetics for their rp. RPers have zero issue to open their wallets. The other 20-15% i'd say is for achievements and try to pretend to others they are good. To all those people CM is a "pay to win" path as in they get everything they want with real money.

The op outfits was not always the case, the sets of 2.0 were really good.
DF and DP nim shells for amor and weapons, or snv shells. Dxun ones were somewhat cool too with that shield effect


 

Edited November 23, 2023 by xxSHOONYxx