7.4 Livestream coming October 18th!

[Lord_Malganus]

58 minutes ago, DeannaVoyager said:

 

No. I'd rather have Rakata pieces with correct tank stats. Should be easier to do too and less complicated to upgrade.  

 

If I can't have Rakata gear for a tank with proper tank stats, I'll just use incorrect stats then. I don't care anymore, I'm fed up with gearing up all roles and several classes every few months. 

 

If only we could have 344 mods, we could tune our own stats and it wouldn't be an issue... 🤔

Exactly this.

If any changes are made, please prioritize simplifing the current illogical and convoluted gearing system.

[Spikanor]

3 hours ago, NeoBlakkrstal said:

perhaps an increase in the length of time of listings would be warranted, say out to a month, since we won't be getting that money back if the item doesn't sell in the three days they now give.

if you look good on the stream when JoeStramaglia is telling about the new GTN chance you see there have add a 1 week listing time so its still better then 3 day's max

[Toraak]

Personally I'm not overly impressed with the fact the GTN will only show the lowest price now. To me this means people will be forced to undercut if they want to sell anything, because otherwise nobody will even know they have anything up for sale.

 

Also I don't approve of this for another reason. There are many time I don't want to buy the cheapest necessarily. For an example if I see an item where the seller undercut by 1 credit I intentionally skip that seller, and pay the extra credit. I refuse to pay someone intentionally trying to be an *** by such a tiny undercut just so they have that be the 1st item people see.

[Spikanor]

20 minutes ago, Toraak said:

Personally I'm not overly impressed with the fact the GTN will only show the lowest price now.

i see no problems with that.

if it shows the last selling price or the lowst price on the GTN whats the problem.

since i check the item first and see if its worth selling in the first place since if the item has a lot of page's then i know for sure its not going to sell good so its not worth it at all to put it on the GTN.

[TrixxieTriss]

1 hour ago, Toraak said:

Personally I'm not overly impressed with the fact the GTN will only show the lowest price now. To me this means people will be forced to undercut if they want to sell anything, because otherwise nobody will even know they have anything up for sale

I’ve been mulling over this design decision for days now, trying to look at this from different perspectives. What I think is it will be a positive for buyers and really terrible for sellers. 

I think you are correct that it will encourage people to continually undercut if they ever want to sell anything. Which will drive down prices and inflation. Which is good for buyers, but really bad for sellers. 

Except this will also make it a more risky proposition for people spending cash buying CM items with CC to resell on the GTN. Which I don’t think the devs have considered. And this might actually eat into their own CM sales & profits. So I can see this backfiring badly for Broadsword & EA.

What I believe will happen, is after a few months, there will be less people buying stuff off the CM & selling. This will allow the credit sellers who will probably end up running some type of “auction house type” bots to drive seller competition from the GTN. Then they will control the GTN, not the players & not Broadsword. Making them more financially important to Broadsword than the actual players. 

Let’s just say I have a bad feeling about this design implementation and I feel like Broadsword management need to do a financial risk assessment before green lighting this release. 

 

Edited October 22, 2023 by TrixxieTriss

[BulbulusTheGreat]

1 hour ago, Toraak said:

Personally I'm not overly impressed with the fact the GTN will only show the lowest price now. To me this means people will be forced to undercut if they want to sell anything, because otherwise nobody will even know they have anything up for sale.

 

Also I don't approve of this for another reason. There are many time I don't want to buy the cheapest necessarily. For an example if I see an item where the seller undercut by 1 credit I intentionally skip that seller, and pay the extra credit. I refuse to pay someone intentionally trying to be an *** by such a tiny undercut just so they have that be the 1st item people see.

never had a problem with undercutting so this is fine by me but im curious will the seller be able to see lowest price? i mean how are we going to undercut if we don't see others prices, im guessing only buyer sees the lowest price but seller sees them all? how will that work? couldn't you for example as a seller choose buyer option and then see prices anyway? im a bit confused how this'll work. (i didn't watch GTN part of stream)

[DeannaVoyager]

4 hours ago, Toraak said:

Personally I'm not overly impressed with the fact the GTN will only show the lowest price now. To me this means people will be forced to undercut if they want to sell anything, because otherwise nobody will even know they have anything up for sale.

 

Also I don't approve of this for another reason. There are many time I don't want to buy the cheapest necessarily. For an example if I see an item where the seller undercut by 1 credit I intentionally skip that seller, and pay the extra credit. I refuse to pay someone intentionally trying to be an *** by such a tiny undercut just so they have that be the 1st item people see.

I also skip the listings where someone has undercut by one credit, so I'm not going to like this change. I want to see them all and decide which one I want to buy.

It will be also more difficult to figure out which sellers are playing the GTN instead of playing the game. I don't want to buy anything from someone who might be a credit seller, and there are a lot of those around.  As a seller, well I guess I am done with that. I don't have time or interest to relist and undercut all the time just to get my item visible for possible buyers like GTN players have. 

 

All listings need to be visible with search or you can just close the GTN, because it will be taken over by credit sellers who don't even play the game.

 

 

[ShadowyKai]

Quote

Personally I'm not overly impressed with the fact the GTN will only show the lowest price now.

I had not been aware of this particular planned change.

So now, if I put an item up for sale on the GTN and just one other person undercuts me by just one credit, my item won't even be visible? And this is on top of the fact that now, if your item doesn't sell, you actually lose credits instead of breaking even.

I really think this is a bad idea. It seems obvious how it will make things much harder for sellers. And although it might seem to make things better for buyers, I would argue that anything that discourages people from selling items on the GTN will ultimately hurt the buyers as well. Fewer items for sale, less competition, might not reduce prices as much as you were hoping.

By the way ... If two different people put up a particular item for sale on the GTN and they tie for the lowest price, then how would it be decided which one is shown?

[OlBuzzard]

5 hours ago, TrixxieTriss said:

I’ve been mulling over this design decision for days now, trying to look at this from different perspectives. What I think is it will be a positive for buyers and really terrible for sellers. 

I think you are correct that it will encourage people to continually undercut if they ever want to sell anything. Which will drive down prices and inflation. Which is good for buyers, but really bad for sellers. 

Except this will also make it a more risky proposition for people spending cash buying CM items with CC to resell on the GTN. Which I don’t think the devs have considered. And this might actually eat into their own CM sales & profits. So I can see this backfiring badly for Broadsword & EA.

What I believe will happen, is after a few months, there will be less people buying stuff off the CM & selling. This will allow the credit sellers who will probably end up running some type of “auction house type” bots to drive seller competition from the GTN. Then they will control the GTN, not the players & not Broadsword. Making them more financially important to Broadsword than the actual players. 

Let’s just say I have a bad feeling about this design implementation and I feel like Broadsword management need to do a financial risk assessment before green lighting this release. 

 

IMO the simplest and best solution is to provide ALL prices (on each given item) beginning with the least expensive.  Improvements should (perhaps) be able to group those who are selling massive quantities (multiple lines of items) into a more manageable format so as to not overwhelm the market with just their entries.  (I think most of us seen this for quite some time now).  That keeps the market more accessible to all entries and makes pricing still "open" and more easily seen by those who are purchasing.

(I hope this makes sense).

[Exly]

6 hours ago, Toraak said:

Personally I'm not overly impressed with the fact the GTN will only show the lowest price now. To me this means people will be forced to undercut if they want to sell anything, because otherwise nobody will even know they have anything up for sale.

 

Also I don't approve of this for another reason. There are many time I don't want to buy the cheapest necessarily. For an example if I see an item where the seller undercut by 1 credit I intentionally skip that seller, and pay the extra credit. I refuse to pay someone intentionally trying to be an *** by such a tiny undercut just so they have that be the 1st item people see.

I also think that it will make trying to sell stuff on the gtn a lot less appealing.  Think about it, with the new nonrefundable deposit being, and the advent of only seeing the lowest price, selling on gtn will make a lot less sense than trying to sell via the trade option.  It will force people to continually undercut others to have any chance of selling their items and will add insult to injury by charging people for not doing so with the aforementioned nonrefundable deposit.

If the idea is to put a stop to people selling on the gtn, then I guess that what they are doing will help to accomplish their goal.  If on the other hand, the changes are being done to benefit us as players, then I think they should go back to the drawing board and scrap this misguided attempt in favor of changes that might actually accomplish something positive for the game.

[ShadowyKai]

Just wondering ... Are they going to let us change the prices on our GTN listings?

As of now, once you put an item up on the GTN, you can't change the price except by cancelling it and relisting it.

With the new system of the listing deposit becoming a nonrefundable fee and only showing the lowest price for a particular item ... If they don't let us modify the prices on our listings, then I can easily see how it will go :

Put an item up ... Darn, somebody undercut me, so I cancel, pay another fee, and put it back up at a lower price ... Uh-oh, somebody undercut me again, gotta cancel, lose the fee, and put it back up ... Oh, great, somebody undercut me again ... 

You get the idea. Cancel, lose your fee, relist, cancel, lose your fee, relist, cancel, lose your fee, relist ... That's a great way to discourage people from selling on the GTN at all.

[Toraak]

1 hour ago, Exly said:

I also think that it will make trying to sell stuff on the gtn a lot less appealing.  Think about it, with the new nonrefundable deposit being, and the advent of only seeing the lowest price, selling on gtn will make a lot less sense than trying to sell via the trade option.  It will force people to continually undercut others to have any chance of selling their items and will add insult to injury by charging people for not doing so with the aforementioned nonrefundable deposit.

If the idea is to put a stop to people selling on the gtn, then I guess that what they are doing will help to accomplish their goal.  If on the other hand, the changes are being done to benefit us as players, then I think they should go back to the drawing board and scrap this misguided attempt in favor of changes that might actually accomplish something positive for the game.

I know I'll have less reason's to use the CM due to the only lowest price listed.

 

When I sell something I judge what to charge not based on lowest cost (Because some people just undercut with a massive pay cut) but by having all of the information available to me. If 1 person has an item that sells for 100 mil, but undercuts down to 50-60 mil, there is no chance I'd post it at that. If I see 1 at 50 mil, and the next is at 85 mil. I'd base my selling price on that 2nd price. 

 

So by Broadsword only showing sellers the lowest it is also going to affect how many people want to sell because they won't know if the current price is a massive undercut or is at the actual selling price. And this could very well cut into Broadswords CM market. Because if only the cheapest is on the GTN, there will be less reason to buy CM items to sell.

[TrixxieTriss]

3 hours ago, OlBuzzard said:

IMO the simplest and best solution is to provide ALL prices (on each given item) beginning with the least expensive.  Improvements should (perhaps) be able to group those who are selling massive quantities (multiple lines of items) into a more manageable format so as to not overwhelm the market with just their entries.  (I think most of us seen this for quite some time now).  That keeps the market more accessible to all entries and makes pricing still "open" and more easily seen by those who are purchasing.

(I hope this makes sense).

Yes, I agree that would be a better design. 

[TrixxieTriss]

8 hours ago, BulbulusTheGreat said:

never had a problem with undercutting so this is fine by me but im curious will the seller be able to see lowest price? i mean how are we going to undercut if we don't see others prices, im guessing only buyer sees the lowest price but seller sees them all? how will that work? couldn't you for example as a seller choose buyer option and then see prices anyway? im a bit confused how this'll work. (i didn't watch GTN part of stream)

It will default to the lowest price first. So you will always know what the lowest price is. The people selling will just undercut the cheapest each time they list.

This is exactly how the Auction house in GW2 operates & you can’t make any credits in that game selling CM type items.

But they have also setup their game market so you can buy gold directly from them & not third party sellers. So people there don’t need to buy & sell items to get gold & the gold sellers have nothing to sell.

This is very different to how swtor CM operates. And unless Broadswords plan is to sell credits directly to players, this will eat into their CM income. 

[TrixxieTriss]

2 hours ago, ShadowyKai said:

Just wondering ... Are they going to let us change the prices on our GTN listings?

As of now, once you put an item up on the GTN, you can't change the price except by cancelling it and relisting it.

With the new system of the listing deposit becoming a nonrefundable fee and only showing the lowest price for a particular item ... If they don't let us modify the prices on our listings, then I can easily see how it will go :

Put an item up ... Darn, somebody undercut me, so I cancel, pay another fee, and put it back up at a lower price ... Uh-oh, somebody undercut me again, gotta cancel, lose the fee, and put it back up ... Oh, great, somebody undercut me again ... 

You get the idea. Cancel, lose your fee, relist, cancel, lose your fee, relist, cancel, lose your fee, relist ... That's a great way to discourage people from selling on the GTN at all.

That’s exactly what’s going to happen. This won’t hurt the credit sellers & they’ll use Auction Bots to do this automatically till they drive legit players out of the GTN market. 

[TrixxieTriss]

2 hours ago, Toraak said:

I know I'll have less reason's to use the CM due to the only lowest price listed.

 

When I sell something I judge what to charge not based on lowest cost (Because some people just undercut with a massive pay cut) but by having all of the information available to me. If 1 person has an item that sells for 100 mil, but undercuts down to 50-60 mil, there is no chance I'd post it at that. If I see 1 at 50 mil, and the next is at 85 mil. I'd base my selling price on that 2nd price. 

 

So by Broadsword only showing sellers the lowest it is also going to affect how many people want to sell because they won't know if the current price is a massive undercut or is at the actual selling price. And this could very well cut into Broadswords CM market. Because if only the cheapest is on the GTN, there will be less reason to buy CM items to sell.

Exactly. I don’t think the devs or management have looked at this enough to see what we can all plainly see is going to happen. This is going to end up negatively affecting their own income stream as much as it will affect the sellers.  

[DragoslavRadanov]

13 hours ago, Toraak said:

Personally I'm not overly impressed with the fact the GTN will only show the lowest price now. To me this means people will be forced to undercut if they want to sell anything, because otherwise nobody will even know they have anything up for sale.

 

Also I don't approve of this for another reason. There are many time I don't want to buy the cheapest necessarily. For an example if I see an item where the seller undercut by 1 credit I intentionally skip that seller, and pay the extra credit. I refuse to pay someone intentionally trying to be an *** by such a tiny undercut just so they have that be the 1st item people see.

Uhh, what's this frame from the livestream then? Seems like you can in fact see multiple listings, you have click the "item details"  icon (which right now looks like the credit symbol, the one next to the star that's toned down because the purchase window is open, if anyone can't see it just reply and I'll post another screenshot from a few frames earlier where it should look clearer) that will show you all the available listings to the side. I'm assuming you'll be able to pick the price you want since there's a unit price line. That's what it looks like to me, but I'm sure @JoeStramaglia will be able to clarify if that's how it works.

[TrixxieTriss]

50 minutes ago, DragoslavRadanov said:

Uhh, what's this frame from the livestream then? Seems like you can in fact see multiple listings, you have click the "item details"  icon (which right now looks like the credit symbol, the one next to the star that's toned down because the purchase window is open, if anyone can't see it just reply and I'll post another screenshot from a few frames earlier where it should look clearer) that will show you all the available listings to the side. I'm assuming you'll be able to pick the price you want since there's a unit price line. That's what it looks like to me, but I'm sure @JoeStramaglia will be able to clarify if that's how it works.

Your screen shot shows the purchase screen, not the sales screen.

I don’t think you understand the points we are trying to make.

Edited October 23, 2023 by TrixxieTriss

[DragoslavRadanov]

17 hours ago, TrixxieTriss said:

Your screen shot shows the purchase screen, not the sales screen.

I don’t think you understand the points we are trying to make.

The person I was responding to said he didn't want to buy from people who undercut by one credit. I was just showing him it seems he can choose who he wants to buy from instead of being forced to buy from the cheapest sale. As for sales not much is different. People undercut now and if someone wants to buy the lowest amount they will regardless of how the GTN is presented. If they don't want to give stupidly low (1 credit) undercutters the satisfaction, they buy the next highest up like they would now. Only real difference is you choose the unit price now and it auto multiplies stack items instead of you needing to do the calculation yourself if you don't want to go with the game's suggested price. And for the people who're concerned about the deposit not being refunded the deposit fee is literally nothing. Tested it out with Legendary Embers on live (SF) and highest I got it was 12k closer to 13k, and that's with over 400 Embers going for roughly 147 million asking price, just do a heroic which gives 20-30k and there deposit loss recouped. Regardless I'll include a screenshot of the sales screen from the live stream. Y'all are seriously getting worked up over ~1%(based on the screenshot (250/17750=0.014*100=1.4%) or even less (12722/146999580=0.0000865*100=0.00865%) of your sale price that you can make back instantly with doing the easiest heroics on the starter planets.

Live Stream numbers on top and Live Star Forge numbers on bottom for anyone who wants to double check my math. 

Edited October 23, 2023 by DragoslavRadanov

[Sarova]

@JackieKo Please put the Best View Video section of the Livestream on the SWTOR Youtube channel. Having the pics set to music like that was superb. Any chance of that happening?

[KyraMalakai]

As someone that sometimes puts thing up for sale on the gtn and does not sell them having this fee not being return to me is simply going to make me stop trying to sell regardless of the price it may have.

Having the ability to change the price of an item during its sale time might help with trying to cut losses.

[OlBuzzard]

IMO the GTN (aka auction house in other games) ... should be there to help facilitate things .. NOT to be difficult or cumbersome.  YES ... there are often fees attached.  (Not the time to open up that debate... we can do that elsewhere).  The focus on this discussion is and SHOULD be the GTN ... it's layout, method of search for stuff...  posting items for sale and expediting the transactions as easily as possible.

** Keeping the system easy to use when loading items for sale.  This also includes a CLEARCUT cost of the individual item when applied to a stack.  (Sometimes it's too easy to miscalculate the intended cost of a stack / or individual unit cost in the stack.
** Cleaning up the overall GTN presentation of items for sale.  Instead of ages and pages of the same item sold by the same person who is selling said item one at the time can be tedious and frankly ... misleading. (There really isn't 27 pages of items for sale ...  Considerably less when you look at it closer.)   I've seen on many occasions as many as 10 pages by the same person.. when in fact a single entry can be shown of the same item at the same price offered with the availability of one at the time... just enter how many you want to buy from said seller.  IMO this also gives a better review of what is actually being sold and a better scope of the overall price range.
** Don't overcook the cake.. or overly complicate the plumbing.  Both will prove to be fatal.  

It should be noted that IMO this is one time that when this goes to PTS .. someone needs to you know ... ACTUALLY listen to the feedback.

The easier it is to use the GTN the happier everyone will be.

BTW... it should be noted that the AH on WoW is not that great.  They did make some changes that were for the better ... but some of it is a royal pain in the tail feathers!

 

[ShadowyKai]

I am reminded of something that I once heard somebody say about gambling in a casino.

"I think that losing $50 would upset me more than winning $500 would make me happy."

That's the thing ... When you put an item up for sale on the GTN, you're looking to make credits. Now, breaking even instead of making a profit is one thing ... but I think that losing money instead REALLY goes against the grain.

And, of course, small fees do add up over time.

[Spikanor]

do i see it right on the new GTN screenshot that there also adding a buyers tax now for the GTN.

so we have now a Trade tax, mail tax, the sell fee has been increase for the GTN and now we get a buyer tax also for the GTN.

i think there really need to stop with adding more tax system in the game since its not good at all to have so many diffrend tax systems in the game.

[Nee-Elder]

3 hours ago, Sarova said:

 JackieKo , Please put the Best View Video section of the Livestream on the SWTOR Youtube channel. Having the pics set to music like that was superb. Any chance of that happening?

As i mentioned on Page 1 of this thread:  https://forums.swtor.com/topic/931603-74-livestream-coming-october-18th/?do=findComment&comment=9782380   ... the video is already uploaded there.