Thanks for operations season objectives, but, ah...

[Plactus]

Four? You have to complete four operations to get credit?

Even with a really good, really fast team, that's a much bigger time sink than any of the other objectives (except maybe PVP, I don't do those), for the same reward (12 points / 15 trophies) as the flashpoint objective.

Is this a mistake and you're only supposed to need one of them?

[Toraak]

For the time needed to Find a group for each Operation, as well as the time needed to actually do the Operation it simply isn't worth 12 points. This Objective should either be 2 of the listed Operations at most,

 

If Broadsword wants to keep it at all 4, then this specific objective needs to be worth far more points then other objectives. Perhaps 20. 

Edited September 13, 2023 by Toraak

[JackieKo]

Hi there,

Completing the 4 Ops is intended. We're seeing feedback on this, so we're definitely taking all of it into consideration. Please feel free to add more feedback about the Galactic Seasons objectives as needed.

[LD_Little_Dragon]

Hah, yes, I noticed that.  2 flashpoints, but 4 operations.  Flashpoints you can do solo, so zero time needed before running them, but operations?

Very unbalanced.  I mean I run ops anyway for fun, but I'm not going to bother making sure I run the specific GS ones.

[RadarOMalley]

6 minutes ago, JackieKo said:

Completing the 4 Ops is intended.

Hmmm, guess I won't be doing that objective this week then. Appreciate the confirmation though.

[felleto]

I have got to say that once I saw the objective I gave up on it and decided to pursue other weeklies. 4 ops, in my opinion, is WAY too many. 

[NeoBlakkrstal]

Personally, I think requiring specific FPs to get the objective to advance is ridiculous enough, but OPs?!? Four of them?!?! Seriously?!?! LOL!!!!

[cannibithobbal]

I have never done an op in this game and even I saw the objective and was like "whoa wut" lol  definitely crazy compared to the FP one (which imo is perfect, 2 FPs for the objective is great)

Honestly for the difficulty of getting into an ops group in the first place (certainly for anyone not in a guild that does them all the time - this is why I've never done one, I've tried several times to join groups via the fleet chat and they've always fallen through), imo it should be just one for the objective, or be worth more points, or both.

[cacophonycat]

9 minutes ago, JackieKo said:

Hi there,

Completing the 4 Ops is intended. We're seeing feedback on this, so we're definitely taking all of it into consideration. Please feel free to add more feedback about the Galactic Seasons objectives as needed.

While I appreciate the attempt to take Ops into consideration, I agree with everyone it's a huge time sink. I've been in numerous guilds, from small to large -- and most people already have schedules set up in advance on what Ops they plan on running for people as they have to consider what their players want. Though they definitely would change based on the objective, most do not actually attend a full FOUR ops in a week. 

What I've seen is actually that all the Prog Raiders I know of, often end up being officers, so that they run additional content for other guild members. So the very people that often would leap at this objective have additional gaming commitments or interests that would inhibit their ability to commit to FOUR operations. 

Partially because a majority of players want to run with their friends, and a lot of the SWTOR player base that I've met in guilds are working full-time or have a sizable RL commitment -- so that all the Ops have to be planned ahead to some extent. PLanning and getting enough people to consistently run them adds to the amount of time a good half an hour just trying to fill Ops teams in smaller or less active guilds. So what you have isnt' like a 3-4 hour commitment for four ops but something closer to a 5 hour commitment for a SINGLE objective.

So I agree with others that either make the rewards greater to increase the incentive, as it may involve players giving up on other objectives just to do this one --- OR drop the total number of OPS down to TWO or THREE instead. If you want to make it a challenge, then THREE might be more feasible.

IDK -- I just prefer advocating for players that would be wanting to do the objective but might not necessarily already have an ideal Ops team that can clear the content fast -- because most guilds & groups I've seen outside of committed/experienced prog ops, have a range in skill level that often leads to one or two wipes, or a lengthier boss combat so they never take the ideal amount of time -- they always take longer.

[Lord_Malganus]

They expect players to spend more time advancing GS5 content than they did creating it.

Servers have to be running for players to do that. 😄

Edited September 13, 2023 by Lord_Malganus

[Darkestmonty]

27 minutes ago, LD_Little_Dragon said:

Hah, yes, I noticed that.  2 flashpoints, but 4 operations.  Flashpoints you can do solo, so zero time needed before running them, but operations?

Very unbalanced.  I mean I run ops anyway for fun, but I'm not going to bother making sure I run the specific GS ones.

yeah and you can queue for a flashpoint and almost immediately get a group during prime time with very short time invested in the whole run. I've been in operations where we are constantly looking to replace people who drop out or disconnect or because our DPS is doing less DPS than our tank.

Nope, this one isn't worth it to me even if I happen to raid some of those operations.

[Char_Ell]

27 minutes ago, JackieKo said:

Hi there,

Completing the 4 Ops is intended. We're seeing feedback on this, so we're definitely taking all of it into consideration. Please feel free to add more feedback about the Galactic Seasons objectives as needed.

Thanks Jackie.  I have to say I am very surprised that this was intended.  I thought for sure this new GS objective would only require one operation out of the four to be completed.  I've no idea why the dev team thought this new weekly GS objective for operations that clearly would require more time and effort to complete than the objective for completion of two flashpoints is still worth the same 12 GS points as the flashpoint objective.

[aerialwind]

@Broadsword  Yo, you guys are gonna have to merge the servers to get the player pool a lil larger or pull back the requirements a tad. Gotta be honest, It's tough just to nab 1 GSF in an evening. Back in the day, ques popped all day long. 

[megawarz]

Story mode. The mode where you can 3 man all sm raids except for r-4. You have to do 4 of them. And the raids are kp, DF, EC and ravagers this week I think. Very time consuming, will only take 1 hr max. And you guys are complaining about that, instead of pushing for fixes to infinite load screens, horrible class balancing, people showing up dead in raid frames, but sm ops take too much time

[Enomars]

57 minutes ago, JackieKo said:

Hi there,

Completing the 4 Ops is intended. We're seeing feedback on this, so we're definitely taking all of it into consideration. Please feel free to add more feedback about the Galactic Seasons objectives as needed.

Thank you for the feed back.  I have to disagree with my collogues on this one.  

For ME personally 4 is not a huge issue as I will naturally do 2-4 in the course of a week. As long as Toborro's Courtyard, Colossal Monolith and Hive of the Mountain Queen are on the ticket (I don't know if these are) then this settings should be fine.  

The way I see it, people stay in the game for 3 three reasons and in this order:

1.  Story 
2.  PvP
3. Operations (stay longer in the game if Operations with friends)

So if you as a team are trying to drum up interest in operations through FOMO from the Galactic seasons this may very well be a good strategy.   The game could use more players trying to create operation teams!   

Galactic Seasons/PvP seasons as I said before, is more of a fear of missing out rather than an actual incentive to play the game whereas Operations, gearing up and even simple achievement hunting are real reasons to play the game. 

Karaggas Palace takes about 45 min to 1 hour to complete but may take up to 30 mins to form. 
Dread palace dread fortress each take 1 hour but again will take 30 mins to form.  

 

Edited September 13, 2023 by Enomars
spelling

[TalLura]

I would be fine if it was DO any 2 ops from the list of 4 . but doing all four is multiple hours spent and takes away from being able to play the game our way 

Edited September 13, 2023 by TalLura

[AmadanNaBrona]

9 minutes ago, Enomars said:

The way I see, it people stay in the game for 3 three reasons and in this order:

1.  Story 
2.  PvP
3. Operations (stay longer in the game if Operations with friends)

 

The way I see, it people stay in the game for 3 three reasons and in this order:

1. Operations
2. Operations
3. Operations 

[Darkestmonty]

4 minutes ago, TalLura said:

I would be fine if it was DO any 2 ops from the list of 4 . but doing all four is multiple hours spent and takes away from being able to play the game our way 

unless you are part of an organized discord or guild, I would probably finish 7 weeklies before I could finish all 4 of those ops.

[moqe]

Personally, I see absolutely no problem with speedrunning 4 SM operations. For me it is much easier than heroic space missions or GSF, as all my knowledge of piloting a starfighter comes down to "spinning is a neat trick". And the groups were forming on the fleet non-stop yesterday. Even if you can't find a group, just start one yourself, you'll be surprised how many people would /w you immediately. Many, many people do not mind tech frags farming, but are too lazy to do the admin stuff.

[TalLura]

which is why do any 2 is doable if not long, as people on fleet often can form groups but expecting someone who not in massive guild to get all 4 is insane. 

2 is long but doable

 

[_Izanagi]

I guess the devs don't want us to just run the fastest FP/Ops over and over again to complete these objectives, but I don't really understand why.

Just tell us to do a certain amount of them and let us figure out which ones we like to do, even if you increase the required amount. For example, I'd rather run 3 or 4 FPs of my choosing than be forced to do 2 specific ones (that I might dislike for some reason).

An Operations objective is obviously nice, spicing up the GS a little, but.. you don't even need to play the game to realize that 4 Ops isn't equal to 2 FPs (and other 12-point objectives).

 

I'd probably make it say "complete any 2 Operations with more than 1 boss fight", so you can't just do Toborro's twice in under 10 minutes.

[Enomars]

34 minutes ago, cannibithobbal said:

I have never done an op in this game and even I saw the objective and was like "whoa wut" lol  definitely crazy compared to the FP one (which imo is perfect, 2 FPs for the objective is great)

Honestly for the difficulty of getting into an ops group in the first place (certainly for anyone not in a guild that does them all the time - this is why I've never done one, I've tried several times to join groups via the fleet chat and they've always fallen through), imo it should be just one for the objective, or be worth more points, or both.

 ...And you always fear what you don't understand.  Carmine Falcone


I once NEVER did operations. I hated them. poor leadership. terrible coordination. 3 hours of grinding one operation on story then failing.  Now I do enjoy them.  Story operations are really easy once you have done it once or twice. literally 2 DPS and 1 healer and 1 tank can carry the whole 8 man team.   ... and the tank can even be in DPS gear with a shield.   The player base is so overpowered now that story operations are almost silly with ease.  So even 8 newish players could grind through a Story operation with a simple guide from the internet.  

If one person knows what they are doing and that one person can be the voice of the operation they become super easy. It just requires leadership.  (I am not saying jump into R4 story or vet just the easy operations)

[Plactus]

16 minutes ago, Enomars said:

Thank you for the feed back.  I have to disagree with my collogues on this one.  

For ME personally 4 is not a huge issue as I will naturally do 2-4 in the course of a week. As long as Toborro's Courtyard, Colossal Monolith and Hive of the Mountain Queen are on the ticket (I don't know if these are) then this settings should be fine.

It's four specific operations, all full ops: Karagga's Palace, Explosive Conflict, Dread Palace, and Ravagers.

[TalLura]

11 minutes ago, Darkestmonty said:

unless you are part of an organized discord or guild, I would probably finish 7 weeklies before I could finish all 4 of those ops.

 

Just now, Plactus said:

It's four specific operations, all full ops: Karagga's Palace, Explosive Conflict, Dread Palace, and Ravagers.

at the amount time it takes they may as well make it 14 or 18 point one instead of 12 to make it less painful

[GuigeekRhadamant]

1 hour ago, JackieKo said:

Hi there,

Completing the 4 Ops is intended. We're seeing feedback on this, so we're definitely taking all of it into consideration. Please feel free to add more feedback about the Galactic Seasons objectives as needed.

You forgot to take into account that we're not enough anymore on most servers to be able to find 7 players quickly enough to do ops in an acceptable amount of time, doing 4 ops even in NM take hours