An update on the development of SWTOR

[OlBuzzard]

I know I'm old and kind of out of step with some of the new-fangled stuff that's out there ...BUT why on earth do people think that if it's on the internet it MUST be true ... and visa-versa?  Did people just simply stop thinking altogether?  Is spoon feeding still a thing?  Is it necessary for everything to be spelled out before drawing to a more sensible conclusion?

The new company either will or will not fix the game.  The new employees either will or will not do their respective jobs.  I have personally seen 14 men out work 32 ... because they WANTED to do the job (personal real-life experience).  And I'm guessing that since none of us are on the either the board of directors or a part of the committee which drew up the agreements for either party BW or BS  ...I'm thinking that only thing that any of us really have is a lot of old-fashioned guess work as to what is really going on with everything else (on either side of the issue) !!!

[/facepalm]

(Good Grief ... what a mess)

Sooo  looks like that wait and see is still the best course of action???  Maybe?

I still think that this: 

** BUG SQUASHING should be at the top of that list (or at least close to it)
** The next GS series (are we up to 5 now for the NEXT one??)  A note to the team.  One of your staff started a post that was answered quite well.  IMO that is a good place to start.  There is no reason that couldn't be done in such a way that some old fashion fun be found along the way.  I personally thought that was one of the reasons for play SWTOR.  It use to be!!
** Some long-term goals shared with the community then set some short-term REACHABLE goals along the way that will encourage others to stick around.
... these points are not too unreasonable to reach!

(note ... the above points regarding reachable goals is copied and pasted from a previous post of mine)

[TrixxieTriss]

7 hours ago, LJ_Gibbs said:

I really hate to do this...

https://blog.bioware.com/2023/06/27/bright-future-for-swtor/

And so, while EA will remain SWTOR’s publisher, development of the game will move to our partner and friends at Broadsword, a boutique studio with expertise in managing online games.

So ... let's let that sink in a bit....

It's STILL EA's baby... they just want someone else DEVELOPING it because they need the bodies for ME and DA.

I did read that you know. I just interpret it differently. Especially as Broadsword isn’t part of EA. And because of that, we don’t know how this arrangement has been made. We don’t know the financing agreement or structure. Anyone who says they do is lying. So without knowing that, how can’t you know what you’re saying is true. 

[krackcommando]

39 minutes ago, TrixxieTriss said:

I did read that you know. I just interpret it differently. Especially as Broadsword isn’t part of EA. And because of that, we don’t know how this arrangement has been made. We don’t know the financing agreement or structure. Anyone who says they do is lying. So without knowing that, how can’t you know what you’re saying is true. 

I mean...c'mmon here. either Broadsword 'took out a loan" worth 3x more than their entire business' net worth, or EA is still "the money" and calls the shots.

evidence? Broadsword hired exponentially more employees than work at the entire company, and their sole job is to work on this "new" (11? 12? year old) MMORPG.

we also know that the employees that Broadsword are bringing over are fewer than those who work on the game now.

so there are two ridiculously strong sources of evidence that you're not going to get "more" out of SWTOR than you've seen before the switch.

if you're happy with the game now, then you'll probably continue to be happy with it. I doubt the steady stream of new and tweaked cosmetics will slow until the game literally closes shop. if you want new raids and fps, maps, and story content on a regular basis, I think you're operating with a healthy dose of self-deception.

last analogy, and this probably only resonates with pvp enthusiasts. do you remember when 7.0 dropped and there was nothing for pvp? there was little for everyone, but absolutely nothing for pvp? and some of the more frequent ppl on the pvp board like jedimasteralex were pumping the brakes. telling ppl to remain calm. don't stress. 7.2 is the pvp update. just wait and see until 7.2? remember that? cuz reading this thread gives me an awful sense of deja vu. 😄

[JakRoanin]

1 hour ago, TrixxieTriss said:

...Especially as Broadsword isn’t part of EA. And because of that, we don’t know how this arrangement has been made. We don’t know the financing agreement or structure. Anyone who says they do is lying. So without knowing that, how can’t you know what you’re saying is true. 

Which is what I've been saying, IDK that things will change, but I know they can! If they don't I'll decide then.

[xxSHOONYxx]

1 hour ago, krackcommando said:

last analogy, and this probably only resonates with pvp enthusiasts. do you remember when 7.0 dropped and there was nothing for pvp? there was little for everyone, but absolutely nothing for pvp? and some of the more frequent ppl on the pvp board like jedimasteralex were pumping the brakes. telling ppl to remain calm. don't stress. 7.2 is the pvp update. just wait and see until 7.2? remember that? cuz reading this thread gives me an awful sense of deja vu.

Copium is strong with a lot of people in here here, game that has done nothing in the last few years (when it comes to content, 64 bit still great update though) but disappoint and alienante the player base but will now do better with half the devs.

Love the game for what it was at one point and all the times i spent on it and friends i made, and hate what it has been done to it and all the missed opportunities. Wish the devs the best, if somehow they can pull a swtor revival with less people than they had before it will be nothing short of a miracle

[fabsus]

i mean it seem pretty clear, if you try to ask some questions:

will ea remain as the publisher? yes!
so it's unlikely that ea changes much or will flood money into the game. 
and if ea was the reason why new content took so long, it still remains as the problem.

will swtor still be star wars? yes!
because it is star wars, they have to deal with lucasfilm games in the future and nothing changes.
that also includes all the licence stuff. so if that was the reason, it stays the same.

will all devs move to broadsword? no!
as it was stated by gary mckay:

Quote

most of the current team will be invited to accompany the game on its move to Broadsword - Gary McKay The Future is Bright for Star Wars™: The Old Republic™ – BioWare Blog

so some devs (working on games) will stay at bioware, some will move to broadsword,
some will move to a different company. 
that said, the actual team, already working on swtor, will be smaller,
so less workhours on swtor.

is broadsword hiring for swtor? no!
if you search the web for broadsword hirings, there is nothing new.
it seems, that they are not hiring additional people to compensate or
enlarge the left over team. so still less workhours for swtor. 

 

now i heard and read many fanboys screaming, that it is more easy to
develop under the flag of broadsword, because it is their new gem.
so my question would be, who was responsible for the lack of content
over the last years? EA stays the same, the key team leaders will stay
the same: 
 

Quote

Of course, I’m also very glad that I’ll be moving over with key team leaders and continuing to work with most of our current team. - @KeithKanneg The Future is Bright for Star Wars™: The Old Republic™ – BioWare Blog

lucasfilm games will stay the same.
so the only party left, who could be responsible for it could be BIOWARE,
that they are actively sabotaging the game. and that seem pretty unrealistic
for a comapany earning money with it. 

so even if broadsword is handling swtor as their new shiny gem in the house,
if everything keeps the same, how could changes happen? 
less people will work on swtor, there is no hiring, so still less people will work
in the future on swtor. i cannot see any possibility of improvement in here.

i won't say that it is impossible to get new content, not pre-preduced by the
team now. but it will take longer for less content. 

7.0 was released 02/15/2022. that's 506 days today.
sum up all the -new content- and compare it to other
mmos, like wow or ff. 
the only reason i keep playing swtor is because of the
community and you know so many fantastic people to play with.
but if the only hope for an improvement is to hope for an actual miracle, i'm out of it.

[Whykara]

1 hour ago, fabsus said:

so the only party left, who could be responsible for it could be BIOWARE,
that they are actively sabotaging the game. and that seem pretty unrealistic
for a comapany earning money with it. 

Have you not read Chris Schmidt's twitter thread or any of the other dev's posts? They have all been extremely clear that Bioware was indeed sabotaging SWTOR by diverting resources meant for SWTOR to their other projects. SWTOR has always been Bioware's step child. 

[robwettengel]

Bear in mind that what I am about to post is pure speculation.

What if the overall purpose behind the development of KotFEET was the team seeking to curry favor with Big BW (the "main" studio up north in Edmonton) by going in a conventional RPG direction? Given how much of a developmental departure these expacs were from what had come before, this could be a correct interpretation.

[Traceguy]

5 hours ago, WayOfTheWarriorx said:

And so the second they release any new content under Broadsword (which I don't expect to be any more than Bioware has) everyone can point back to this post of yours.

 

People can complain all they want and use baseless claims that are not true, but we have this to go on, which is more fact than the strongest of keyboard warriors

Quote

With 7.3 now live, our priority is continuing to prepare for Game Updates 7.3.1 and 7.4 along with planning for 2024 and 2025 with a focus on content and continued modernization initiatives.

- Keith on transition to Broadsword

 

Edited July 5, 2023 by Traceguy

[OlBuzzard]

8 hours ago, fabsus said:

i mean it seem pretty clear, if you try to ask some questions:

will ea remain as the publisher? yes!
so it's unlikely that ea changes much or will flood money into the game. 
and if ea was the reason why new content took so long, it still remains as the problem.

will swtor still be star wars? yes!
because it is star wars, they have to deal with lucasfilm games in the future and nothing changes.
that also includes all the licence stuff. so if that was the reason, it stays the same.

will all devs move to broadsword? no!
as it was stated by gary mckay:

so some devs (working on games) will stay at bioware, some will move to broadsword,
some will move to a different company. 
that said, the actual team, already working on swtor, will be smaller,
so less workhours on swtor.

is broadsword hiring for swtor? no!
if you search the web for broadsword hirings, there is nothing new.
it seems, that they are not hiring additional people to compensate or
enlarge the left over team. so still less workhours for swtor. 

 

now i heard and read many fanboys screaming, that it is more easy to
develop under the flag of broadsword, because it is their new gem.
so my question would be, who was responsible for the lack of content
over the last years? EA stays the same, the key team leaders will stay
the same: 
 

lucasfilm games will stay the same.
so the only party left, who could be responsible for it could be BIOWARE,
that they are actively sabotaging the game. and that seem pretty unrealistic
for a comapany earning money with it. 

so even if broadsword is handling swtor as their new shiny gem in the house,
if everything keeps the same, how could changes happen? 
less people will work on swtor, there is no hiring, so still less people will work
in the future on swtor. i cannot see any possibility of improvement in here.

i won't say that it is impossible to get new content, not pre-preduced by the
team now. but it will take longer for less content. 

7.0 was released 02/15/2022. that's 506 days today.
sum up all the -new content- and compare it to other
mmos, like wow or ff. 
the only reason i keep playing swtor is because of the
community and you know so many fantastic people to play with.
but if the only hope for an improvement is to hope for an actual miracle, i'm out of it.
 

Well said by both you and @WayOfTheWarriorx  (other posts have good points as well).  We all need to keep in mind that so many of us are from so many different walks in this life.  I'd dare say that I'm probably one of the more conservative in the group (I'm sure THAT comes as a total shock)...  And yet the simple fact is that I have to consider all of the possibilities in this sort of change.  Until I hear something specific from the right personnel from SWTOR ..  I have to keep an open mind.  IMO it is also expedient that I temper my expectations with recent history and facts (as much as possible).

So many of us are quite passionate about SWTOR.  Nothing wrong with that.  My only regret is that we couldn't have seen more of that actually made the game what it was in times past.   And I would also agree that if 7.0 and the 10 year anniversary bombshell had not unfolded as it did my own position would have no doubt been much stronger than what it is today.

BUT ... it DID happen.  And in some ways that trend seems to still be present as of the latest series of difficulties playing SWTOR.  Some of what we are seeing (IMO) is due to transitioning the game.  The sale / transfer  of SWTOR didn't just happen over a weekend.  As such I get the feeling that prior to the release of 7.0 there was already movement in that direction.  No one knew what was taking place (in the normal flow of things ...  just the upper management.  And I mean UPPER ...  I kind of have my doubts that @KeithKanneg was informed for a while. (yes ... this is strictly speculation ... and probably off the mark a bit... BUT NOT that far).  I would also imagine that once those kinds of decisions were made ... then more KEY members were included, and additional steps taken to make transitioning easier.  

Regardless of HOW we got to this point:
There is nothing we can do to undo the past.  What's done is done!  I am personally not looking for a miracle.  BUT that doesn't mean that I'm not expecting enough changes to take place to warrant a continued active role with SWTOR.

Edited July 5, 2023 by OlBuzzard
error !! (oops)

[JakRoanin]

The same way the business deal wasn't done in a weekend, we can't expect massive shifts at once, but that doesn't mean that things like bug fixes, will never happen.

[krackcommando]

5 hours ago, robwettengel said:

Bear in mind that what I am about to post is pure speculation.

What if the overall purpose behind the development of KotFEET was the team seeking to curry favor with Big BW (the "main" studio up north in Edmonton) by going in a conventional RPG direction? Given how much of a developmental departure these expacs were from what had come before, this could be a correct interpretation.

eh. maybe. they had already botched the raiding scene by that point though.

[felleto]

I JUST WANT TO KNOW SOMETHING!!!!!

[septru]

21 hours ago, krackcommando said:

last analogy, and this probably only resonates with pvp enthusiasts. do you remember when 7.0 dropped and there was nothing for pvp? there was little for everyone, but absolutely nothing for pvp? and some of the more frequent ppl on the pvp board like jedimasteralex were pumping the brakes. telling ppl to remain calm. don't stress. 7.2 is the pvp update. just wait and see until 7.2? remember that? cuz reading this thread gives me an awful sense of deja vu. 😄

Most of the people here probably don't get this reference, but it's pretty spot on.

 

When 7.0 dropped, BioWare gave a little bit of something to everyone. A little story, a little gearing, HM R4, combat styles, new interfaces that most people agreed were actually uglier than the old.... But PvPers didn't get anything with 7.0, other than the ranked PvP season 14 ending with 7.0. Instead BioWare told PvPers to be patient. BioWare promised a big "exciting" "PvP revamp" with 7.2, and they promised it "soon." I think the exact timeline was 2-3 months? Well in the end 7.2 came I think 9 months late, killed the last competitive endgame for PvP and probably a good 90% of the dedicated PvP community quit because of it, and replaced all of this with a PvP battle pass that provides 0 incentives for actual competition. Literally everyone including their own content creators told them in PTS that it was a terrible idea, and like always they ignored PTS feedback. And when the dust settled, 7.2 was literally a PvP "devamp" and the epitome of BioWare mistakes. Wow weren't we naive to believe them in 7.2?

 

I guess not, because some of these forum warriors are perfectly content waiting for miracles that will never come. BioWare tells them to "be patient because we have big plans for 7.4 and 7.5 down the pipe" and these boomers start to drool naivete from their mouth dreaming about all the possible "big changes" that BioWare will never deliver on like a "crafting revamp," "pvp revamp," "NiM R4," "bug squashing," etc, etc, etc. And what's even funnier is that when BioWare inevitably fails to deliver on their big promises, these guys write 5k+ forum posts defending them. At the end off the day, if you're satisfied with the game's status quo - if you're satisfied everything we saw in 7.2 from the over-promises, delay, terrible changes that drive away active subscribers, and ignoring feedback - you'll probably be satisfied with BroadSword. 🤣

 

 

 

 

Edited July 6, 2023 by septru

[JakRoanin]

Nobody said things will improve only that they can!

[felleto]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R7aT6JxXGbo

Sums up how I feel 😔

[OlBuzzard]

34 minutes ago, felleto said:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R7aT6JxXGbo

Sums up how I feel 😔

Like it or not ... the simple fact is that a LOT of people will be watching this transition VERY, VERY closely.  It won't be people like me who make that final choice that will make a huge impact.  But it WILL be a LOT of individuals who are looking for the next successful step in the development and release of SWTOR.   There is nothing philosophically overwhelming about that statement.   Adding another 50+ pages of discussion really will not make that sort of a determination regarding the future of this game.  It WILL be the day-to-day hard work of those who still invest themselves into the next phase of SWTOR.  I'm just saying ... that at the end of the day someone has to listen.  Someone has to figure it all out ...  and then someone has to do the work.  I just hope that all of this helps point things in the right direction for a change!

It's just that simple.

[xxSHOONYxx]

4 hours ago, septru said:

When 7.0 dropped, BioWare gave a little bit of something to everyone. A little story, a little gearing, HM R4, combat styles, new interfaces that most people agreed were actually uglier than the old

r4 was released in 7.1

Edited July 6, 2023 by xxSHOONYxx

[TrixxieTriss]

2 hours ago, JakRoanin said:

Nobody said things will improve only that they can!

I’m agnostic on wether things will improve or not. I certainly have zero expectations that they will. I think that’s the smartest approach because then you aren’t as disappointed when they don’t deliver what you hope for or even expect. The systems & creative teams will be pretty much the same people. 

But I do think we will gradually see some things done differently over the next 12 months. That will be distinctly influenced by Broadswords management. We will have to wait & see if they are good things or bad things. 

[OlBuzzard]

2 hours ago, JakRoanin said:

Nobody said things will improve only that they can!

I personally enjoy a lot of bass fishing (seems like I've mentioned that more than just once around here).  The one thing about fishing in general ... is thinking about the possibilities.  If you don't believe in the positive aspects of those possibilities when it comes to that sport ... you have no business getting out on the water in a boat in the first place .. (particularly spending a large sum of cash in order to do so).

No ... there's NOT any guarantee.  I wish there was.  But realistically I have to simply weigh in on the possibilities.  AND ..(as someone else has already said quite well) ... keep playing unless I'm just not having fun.  

Either we are looking forward to those possibilities .. or we're not!

You have to admit .. the next few months should be really, really interesting!

[TrixxieTriss]

13 minutes ago, OlBuzzard said:

You have to admit .. the next few months should be really, really interesting!

I still don’t think the next few months will be long enough to see anything different for swtor than was already planned. We probably won’t see anything different till well after 7.4. Which if I had to guess, won’t be here anytime before November. Then we might see 7.4.1 mid December & then nothing till February. 

What I am hoping is the next PvP season will bring players back that have stopped playing since the last season ended. Those numbers will show us how the news of the transfer is playing out across the rest of the population. Because at the moment the average steam login players have dropped roughly 2200 people since the last season ended & the Broadsword announcement. If the numbers go back up to what they were last season, then we’ll get a representation of how the player base feels about this move. 
 

As a reference:

The peak steam logins mid PvP season was 12,172 & the average player numbers were 6,938.

Where as the current peak login numbers are 8,096 & the average player numbers are 4,741. 

Edited July 6, 2023 by TrixxieTriss

[Pirana]

This is still going on huh, fascinating. Some of things people will continue to argue about for days or even weeks is nothing short of laughable, yet not at all surprising. It's a video game people, allow things to run its course, enjoy the game or move on, it really is that simple. 

[SteveTheCynic]

9 hours ago, felleto said:

I JUST WANT TO KNOW SOMETHING!!!!!

The sky is blue.

Bears crrapp in the woods.

The Pope is Catholic.

There, that's three things.

[DeannaVoyager]

36 minutes ago, SteveTheCynic said:

The sky is blue.

 

Nope. I just checked: it's gray. Definitely gray. 

[TrixxieTriss]

2 hours ago, SteveTheCynic said:

The sky is blue.

Bears crrapp in the woods.

The Pope is Catholic.

There, that's three things.

Water is wet