PTS: GSF added to PvP Season 3 track

[Tiranea]

As someone who likes to participate in GSF occasionally but isn't very good at it, this sounds like an interesting addition. That said, the medal requirements everyone else suggested so far sound way too high to me. I personally probably won't bother if it's more than 20 or 30, because with a low average medal count per match that would take me long enough as it is. 😅 Depends on who you're trying to draw in with this I guess...

[Lord_Janosch]

Great to hear that GSF is added to PVP season. Totally love GSF!!!

As I understand it, it's a seventh goal which we can do for our 4 goals weekly in the pvp track?

I would suggest that you let all medals count and set the goal to maybe 60. So you would need 12 games with 5 medals (easy for a good pilot but hard for a new pilot, should be middle ground), which corresponds with a warzone weekly or two GSF weeklies. And make it so, that GSF isn't required to reach max. PVP tokens (not part of the uber meta achievement), but let medals count for the 2000 medals achievement (maybe 2 GSF medals count as one medal because GSF medals are easier achieved than PVP medals). 

But it's important that you fix the scoreboards for GSF (not showing medals) and PVP (resetting everytime someone leaves) for season 3!!!

[DakhathKilrathi]

21 hours ago, JackieKo said:

The team would like to know what would be a sufficient amount of medals to earn that would satisfy the weekly objective requirement.

Let's go through a list of medals. Medals obtainable in domination only are in yellow while medals obtainable in both are in green. I have marked the ones that I think are difficult for an average player with an asterisk(*). 

Domination Only
Offense Basic: Capture one satellite
Offense Bronze: Capture two
Offense Silver*: Capture three. Requires mobility you don't see with average players, and is hard to do while defending. 
Offense Gold*: Capture four. Same as above, and it's hard to do in most games regardless. 

Assault: Destroy two turrets
Siege*:  Four turrets. Not hard, but requires you to understand how to kill turrets. Average players may not understand armor ignore or how to efficiently kill turrets. 
Demolisher*: Eight turrets. Hard to do unless your team is losing and even then it's not easy to pull off. 

Defense Basic: Defend satellites (that is, be inside the capture radius of a green satellite) for one minute. 
Defense Bronze: Defend for two minutes.
Defense Silver*: Defend for four minutes. This is not difficult, but a lot of people are bad at defending and/or may not realize exactly where the cutoff for capture radius is. 
Defense Gold*: Defend for six minutes. Average players die too quickly for this to happen as much.
Defense Platinum*:Defend for eight minutes. It's rare for a game to last long enough for this one. 
Defense Diamond*: Defend for ten minutes. You will not see this in most games because they almost never last this long, and if they do, you might have to respawn or move. 

TDM or Domination
Mechanic: Repair 2k damage. This is easy with hydrospanner. 
Savior*: Repair 4k damage. This is not as hard as it used to be but you still don't see it as often. 

Quick Draw: Kill two enemy ships.
Ace: Kill five enemy ships. Reaching the upper end of what you see from average players but still possible. 
Ravage*:  Kill eight enemy ships. Same as above. You do see it, but it is not common. 

Assassin*:  Kill an enemy one-on-one. Not difficult but I don't know how much an average player does this. 

Support:  Assist with killing four enemy ships. 
Fighter: Assist with eight
Wingman*:  Twelve assists. 

Combatant: 10k damage. Everyone should be able to do this.
Destroyer: 20k damage. Still easy, but reaching "some players struggle" territory here. 
Annihilator*: 30k damage. This is not hard, but most players don't reach this number.       


Assuming I haven't missed any at roughly six in the morning (forgive me if I have), that means there are twelve medals that can possibly be earned in any deathmatch game. Most players will only be able to earn six or seven of those, provided they are actually trying. 

Those six or seven are easily attainable in domination, plus another five or so. 

If you're structuring this like the PVP weekly objective and expect people to complete it (but also to still need to try) these numbers should be your general target : six or seven per game for TDM, and eight to ten per game for domination.  If you can separate deathmatch and domination games, great. If not, split the difference and require eight medals in a match for however many games. Six games feels reasonable and it's in line with the requirement for the PVP matches, but if you can't differentiate then it might be better to shoot for four games instead to account for the increased difficulty of getting eight medals in TDM. 

Eight per game might be too high, but much lower and you let people complete the objective without having to push themselves. If it's intended to be fairly easy, six per game is a more reasonable target. 

This is based on my experience, but games that I'm not part of might play out incredibly differently.

However, medals do not currently display on the GSF scoreboard. I'd recommend fixing that before implementing this. I assume you are aware of this since it was reported in February but it's important enough to mention again.

tl;dr: Seven or eight medals is reasonable for both TDM and domination for four to six games. Scoreboard is broken and has been broken for months though. 

And thanks for remembering that GSF does, in fact, still exist. I understand that time and attention is limited and we're fairly low priority, so anything at all is genuinely appreciated.

This isn't related, but while we have your attention, can you please try to do something about conquest leeches and (worse) self-destructors? Reporting seems to take months at best and the problem has gotten especially bad lately. Feel free to disregard if this would be better addressed in its own thread, though the community has made several posts to this effect already in other threads. 

Edited May 9, 2023 by DakhathKilrathi

[LD_Little_Dragon]

4 hours ago, merovejec said:

Stop forcing people into doing content they dont want!

Sure, I like GSF but why include it in the PVP Season? You need to fill some quotas to show management that players play all modes or what?

How are you being forced? 

Stop chasing the shiny fomo rewards.  If something isn't fun, then don't do it. 

Seasons (all of them) are optional

[meddani]

6 hours ago, LD_Little_Dragon said:

How are you being forced? 

Stop chasing the shiny fomo rewards.  If something isn't fun, then don't do it. 

Seasons (all of them) are optional

if they don't add cheevos to it no problem, imo.

[Toraak]

26 minutes ago, meddani said:

if they don't add cheevos to it no problem, imo.

You mean the achievements to PvP season's that give 0 points? not really a big deal if you don't get those.

 

The whole point to achievement hunting is to get credit for doing it. by BW saying it's worth 0 that means they're worthless.

Edited May 9, 2023 by Toraak

[jedimasterjac]

22 hours ago, AMAirlines said:

GSF should not be a part of pvp. These are not the same playerbase, and it will reduce the amount of participation because nobody wants to do GSF. AT MOST it should be an optional thing, not a required one.

I don’t understand why you think it would be a requirement of and not an addition to the track?

[JadeXII]

Quote

GSF is exclusively PvP, just like Ground PvP is. There is no PvE option for GSF. It is only a different type of PvP.

^ This.

 

Quote

If the PvP seasons plan was to get more people playing Arena & WZ PvP to boost the queue numbers, then why add GSF into the mix which will reduce Arena & WZ queue numbers?

On Leviathan players queue for Arenas, War Zones, and GSF all at the same time. It's the lowest population server so there's a very limited time window to get group PVP done. I understand your concern, but this objective will be optional, plus for subscribers only.

 

Quote

Bioware you refuse to add a solo only queue to Arena & WZ’s because you say you’re worried about splitting the queues & increasing pop times, but this is exactly what you’re going to do by adding GSF to the PvP seasons.

Im not against GSF, I’m just suggesting you’re reasoning is backwards. Premades vs solo is a terrible experience. How about addressing that first. 

Premades vs. solo is a terrible experience for both ground PVP and space PVP. We can all work together to improve these kinds of issues as a whole.

 

Quote

The team would like to know what would be a sufficient amount of medals to earn that would satisfy the weekly objective requirement.

I'll look at the numbers this week for a number of medals suggestion.

 

[meddani]

3 hours ago, Toraak said:

You mean the achievements to PvP season's that give 0 points? not really a big deal if you don't get those.

 

The whole point to achievement hunting is to get credit for doing it. by BW saying it's worth 0 that means they're worthless.

if they're tied to a legacy title then they're not worthless.

[Bar-Da-Voya]

First issue is we currently cannot see how many or what medals we earn in GSF unless we are really paying attention to the system chat during the match so hopefully that gets fixed before PvP Season 3. As other have stated it is very unbalanced how many medals you can earn in a Domination match vs a Deathmatch. There are currently 17 medals listed in the GSF achievements but you can't earn a number of them in a Deathmatch.

I like to think I am a good GSF player but if I rarely get more than 2 medals in a winning Deathmatch and maybe 1-2 in a losing Deathmatch  (that count towards the current GS objective to earn capture/damage/defend medals) compared to easily getting 6-8 or more in a winning or losing Domination match.

I would hope all the other GSF medals to count in PvP Seasons which don't count in the current GS objective but it's really hard to think of a number when we can't tell right now how many actual medals we earn in a match beyond the kill/capture/defend that show up for the GS objective. It has been a while since I paid attention to medals in GSF.

If you are doing it like the current PvP medal objective - earn 7 medals in a match 4 time for warzones and 8 times for arenas -  for GSF I would say earn 4 damage/capture/defend medals in a match 4 times. If all GSF medals are going to count towards the objective then maybe 7 medals per match 4 times.

If it's just going to be earn x # of medals in GSF I would say 15 damage/capture/defend medals or 30 if all GSF medals are going to count.

 

 

[juanmf]

16 hours ago, merovejec said:

Stop forcing people into doing content they dont want!

Sure, I like GSF but why include it in the PVP Season? You need to fill some quotas to show management that players play all modes or what?

It's amazing how many comments like these are. YOU PEOPLE CAN'T READ?

 

They are not FORCING YOU to play GSF, it's just an extra objective on top of the existing ones.

[Darthjantom]

I echo the statements of previous posters that for any medal objective ALL medals should count, and not just Capture, Defense and Damage medals like the Galactic Seasons objective.

Because otherwise it'll just have people camp defender points in Domination.

If it's a medals per match for a set amount of matches weekly, i'd suggest 7-8 medals.

If it's a medals total weekly I feel about 30-40 would be fair and for most players amount to somewhere between 3-6 matches. (Based on my own personal experience playing GSF as someone who doesn't consider himself as "good" at GSF, but decent enough to hold my own in matches.)

Edited May 9, 2023 by Darthjantom

[doncascio]

Look, I love GSF, like a whole lot, but do you know how many people join games then do nothing or worse just push the w key and self destruct over and over to make the match end faster? This doesn't fix the problem. Anything you do shouldn't be framed as a requirement, but something extra that GSF players can earn. Like, GSF medals should count towards PvP rewards, but they shouldn't be required. Most importantly, don't increase the amount of PvP medals needed to compensate for adding GSF objectives! Plus, why don't you fix the people who join GSF and do nothing by giving them penalties to their valor?

Edited May 10, 2023 by doncascio
Added fix for people who do nothing.

[LittleEwina]

I am delighted with this news since it was something I deeply wanted from the first pvp season. So as an average and I mean really average player I can usually get 6-7 medals per match. Considering the specific tokens needed to upgrade your ships and that you have to do it for each ship and each toons, then I think 6 medals per game is a good number. After that, I think you would need to do a little comparison when it comes to how long one match last compared to ground pvp and how long you want people to spend on those missions. I would go with 6 medals per match, 10-12 match played, numbers that could be compared to those of ground pvp. And once again as someone would prefer GSF to ground PVP, thank you so much!

[juanmf]

There is also something that many people seem to overlook when it comes to GSF: Even on a stock ship you can make a difference. You are not good at dogfighting? Get that Bomber out and sit on the sat, hold the cap and call for incs. You want to fight? Go help out the guys attacking the enemy sat, get a couple of shots in or distract someone long enough for your teammates to get the kill.

Contrary to popular belief, GSF is more welcoming to noobs than Warzone is.

[BryantWood]

Hey everyone, thanks for your feedback regarding the addition of Galactic Starfighter to the PvP Season track! The team has taken a look at the issues you’ve raised surrounding the current state of Galactic Starfighter such as the medals, objectives, skill gap, and bugs. After evaluating this feedback we’ve come to the conclusion that GSF is not in a good position to be added to the PvP Seasons track at this time.

Thank you again for your constructive feedback regarding this change! We will continue to monitor PvP Seasons and your feedback to improve PvP Seasons going forward.

[meddani]

1 minute ago, BryantWood said:

Hey everyone, thanks for your feedback regarding the addition of Galactic Starfighter to the PvP Season track! The team has taken a look at the issues you’ve raised surrounding the current state of Galactic Starfighter such as the medals, objectives, skill gap, and bugs. After evaluating this feedback we’ve come to the conclusion that GSF is not in a good position to be added to the PvP Seasons track at this time.

Thank you again for your constructive feedback regarding this change! We will continue to monitor PvP Seasons and your feedback to improve PvP Seasons going forward.

i....am actually impressed, lol.

 

[Chryptyk]

This makes me sad.  I was looking forward to GSF being on the track.  Oh well, guess it's back to ruining games for people in PVP.

[VisonaStar]

20 minutes ago, BryantWood said:

Hey everyone, thanks for your feedback regarding the addition of Galactic Starfighter to the PvP Season track! The team has taken a look at the issues you’ve raised surrounding the current state of Galactic Starfighter such as the medals, objectives, skill gap, and bugs. After evaluating this feedback we’ve come to the conclusion that GSF is not in a good position to be added to the PvP Seasons track at this time.

Thank you again for your constructive feedback regarding this change! We will continue to monitor PvP Seasons and your feedback to improve PvP Seasons going forward.

This makes me sad. A lot of us enjoy GSF and were wanting it added to the PVP track. It IS PVP. Once again, GSF gets ignored. 

[BWDemor]

I agree with Argomemon, I mean we finally get some acknowledgement that GSF is PvP and we should get some of the rewards. I mean, it is LISTED in PvP, it plays like PvP. But the Ground PvP cry that they MIGHT have to fly in GSF they win out. 
I mean, us pilots that ONLY like to do GSF are forced to do ground PvP if we want the rewards. WHY should they always get to win. I mean they get a new map; we have not gotten anything.
And truthfully, GSF is a LOT less toxic than ground. We will help out new pilots, encourage them to keep try and that they will get it and it's worth it. 
You finally give us this olive branch of hope and then pull it after ONE DAY of say you will.
You should give it to us in PvP Season 3, see how it goes.
STOP CATERING TO GROUND PvP because they are crying about it taking away from them. It's NOT. 

[juanmf]

1 hour ago, BryantWood said:

Hey everyone, thanks for your feedback regarding the addition of Galactic Starfighter to the PvP Season track! The team has taken a look at the issues you’ve raised surrounding the current state of Galactic Starfighter such as the medals, objectives, skill gap, and bugs. After evaluating this feedback we’ve come to the conclusion that GSF is not in a good position to be added to the PvP Seasons track at this time.

Thank you again for your constructive feedback regarding this change! We will continue to monitor PvP Seasons and your feedback to improve PvP Seasons going forward.

So you listened to the Warzone crybabies, again. Thanks for nothing Bioware, as always. Back to AFKing matches it is.

The day "The team" plays their own game for a week, and I mean Ops, Flashpoints, WZs, Arenas and GSF is the day they'll realise how impactful for the worse their decisions are. Put up with arena and warzone toxics for an hour and you'll see how mentally exhausted you end.

God forbid you do it weekly for the rewards track AND the achievements.

Edited May 10, 2023 by juanmf

[commanderwar]

1 hour ago, BryantWood said:

Hey everyone, thanks for your feedback regarding the addition of Galactic Starfighter to the PvP Season track! The team has taken a look at the issues you’ve raised surrounding the current state of Galactic Starfighter such as the medals, objectives, skill gap, and bugs. After evaluating this feedback we’ve come to the conclusion that GSF is not in a good position to be added to the PvP Seasons track at this time.

Thank you again for your constructive feedback regarding this change! We will continue to monitor PvP Seasons and your feedback to improve PvP Seasons going forward.

GSF has not been touch since 2017 5.5, and for once the game mode finally gets talked about. Then GSF players get excited for once and some of these players have been dedicated for years now. They provided detailed feedback on how many medals should be required.  The only thing that was ask was to fix the bug that prevented the medals being seen at the scoreboard when season 3 launch. All you had to do was let PVP GSF players progress in the PVP season. Now because you have to fix one thing you back out? Are you serious? Players suggested ideas on the problem with objectives like Argomemon suggested. Skill gap? You let premades battle non premades in pvp, why is that not a problem with skill gap? What about people /stucking in PVP arenas to finish the match, should that prevent a PVP season?

You don't even say whether you going to work on the Gsf problems or not. It's been almost 8 years since you did anything with it! Do you expect GSF players to think that your going to ever do anything with GSF. I only play GSF a few times per week and even I think this is terrible response. Who's make these decisions?

Edited May 10, 2023 by commanderwar

[Nee-Elder]

1 hour ago, Chryptyk said:

This makes me sad.  I was looking forward to GSF being on the track. 

Q....

58 minutes ago, VisonaStar said:

This makes me sad. A lot of us enjoy GSF and were wanting it added to the PVP track. It IS PVP. Once again, GSF gets ignored. 

... F...

11 minutes ago, juanmf said:

So you listened to the Warzone crybabies, again.

...E !

1 hour ago, BryantWood said:

 After evaluating this feedback we’ve come to the conclusion that GSF is not in a good position to be added to the PvP Seasons track at this time.

Sorry  @BryantWood  but that ^ statement is extremely confusing & disappointing.

First off:  How did you not already know about GSF's supposed "bad position"  before adding it into PVP Seasons ?!?!

Secondly:  GSF requirements are already part of regular Conquest Objectives ( Galactic Seasons ) , so why does it matter whatever "reasons" you listed as justification for backtracking now?

Third:  Are you honestly saying it took one barely 2-page forum thread in PTS section with feedback from a handful of players to "conclude"  GSF needed some attention finally after YEARS of neglect?!   If so, that's ridiculous.  Why wouldn't  you , @EricMusco , & rest of the Dev/Coder team  already have plans to be working on GSF development  regardless?!   I just don't understand it.  I really don't.   ( Is it because the original GSF code is a total mess and/or too unique from current SWTOR codebase & systems? )

Lastly, trying to be hopeful here:  Is it possible your statement and apparent newfound awareness of GSF  will signify a real committment to all things GSF  now in 2023/2024 development cycles?  Please? 

[DakhathKilrathi]

12 hours ago, BryantWood said:

Hey everyone, thanks for your feedback regarding the addition of Galactic Starfighter to the PvP Season track! The team has taken a look at the issues you’ve raised surrounding the current state of Galactic Starfighter such as the medals, objectives, skill gap, and bugs. After evaluating this feedback we’ve come to the conclusion that GSF is not in a good position to be added to the PvP Seasons track at this time.

Thank you again for your constructive feedback regarding this change! We will continue to monitor PvP Seasons and your feedback to improve PvP Seasons going forward.

I... what? 

Skill gap has not been an issue for anything else PVP related, so why should it be a factor here? It's a PVP game without a ranked mode. There is going to be a skill gap. That's just how it is. 

Fixing a scoreboard bug is something you should be doing anyway, so I'm a bit confused about why that might be a disqualifier as well. It really is the only bug worth noting other than the deselect bug, and since that one is years old I can only assume it will never be fixed. It's not game breaking, anyway, and the people most likely to notice it are also the people who already know about it. It's got an easy workaround. 

That leaves the scoreboard bug as the most likely one you meant. Is fixing the scoreboard really that difficult? Did you not know that it was broken? 

You asked about medals and objectives, so I doubly don't understand how that's a factor either. I listed them and went through the ones I think are reasonable to get a reasonable target... like you asked for. I'm so incredibly confused by this. 

This really is too bad. I was looking forward to the optional extra and am disappointed that you've chosen to backpedal after less than two days consideration.

Edited May 11, 2023 by DakhathKilrathi

[Darthjantom]

Really disapointing.

I don't see how adding an (optional) 7th weekly objective for GSF is a bad thing, or how you came to this conlusion after barely 2 days of feedback and not even a test run during pvp season 3 to see what the actual player angagement with this weekly would be.

Also how is the "current state" of GSF not ready for an (optional) 7th weekly? It's good enough apparently for Galactic Seasons.

Medals? 8 out of 9 warzones are yet to have their medals updated to be more balanced after the 7.2 update, and won't get this update apparently until pvp season 3.

Skill Gap? like this isn't also an issue in normal pvp (especially when you queue solo and end up matched against premades with a group clearly not on the same level).

GSF is PVP too, start giving it some love too. Like the others in this thread, I too am really disapointed by this decision.