Credit Economy Initiative beginning with 7.2.1

[TrixxieTriss]

5 hours ago, DarthNillard said:

All of these ideas are idiotic.  There is only 1 solution that can fix the economy and it should be implemented: item level sales caps.  Some version of Greens can only be sold for 100k, blues for 500k, purple for 1m, gold for 5m, and exotic for 10m across the board (with scales for lesser level stuff). This would fix literally everything with $$$ in this game.

But that would significantly kill you microtransactioning us to death, which is budget line 1.0 on the EA income sheets, so it will never happen.

That doesn’t remove the credits from the system that cause the inflation. All it does is cap how much someone can sell those for on the GTN🤷🏻‍♀️. I’m assuming that’s the sales cap you’re talking about & not selling the items to a vendor. 

[TrixxieTriss]

5 hours ago, Dothwaa said:

Until you fix the bugs in game that force you to leave areas and return to complete quest maybe don't charge us to work around it. Many times you have to jump to stronghold, return to planet just to complete a mission because some cliky item isn't working or  some cut scene wont play. 

This is a VERY important point you make. 
If BioWare want to charge players for going to/exiting StrongHolds, those game breaking bugs really need to be fixed first & fixed faster if new ones appear.

 

Edited February 11, 2023 by TrixxieTriss

[Kazjan]

I like that idea of all these changes. If you really want to stop the inflation you really need to address the GTN pricing. You need to go to a flat 25% non-fundable tax.  

Example:  Sell item for ($350,000,000 ) Then you're tax 25% (87,500,000)  this will stop people from abusing the GTN to Credit trade. This will also allow new players to participate in the GTN trading process as well.  

[VegaMist]

4 hours ago, Twelfthdoctor said:

I am seeing some positive signs from the discussion around potential changes to how stronghold fees work, as well as some of the changes planned for later updates, and a repeated theme I hear from the development side is a need for  credit generation to be offset by ongoing costs rather than one-time purchases that will end up buried.

I also remember a time when I had to choose whether to increase my speeder speed, pay for a trainer to give my character a defensive skill, a general class skill, or improve one tied to my spec. Mind you, at *that* time, I could buy an account-wide Artifact Equipment Authorization for 345k credits. I don't think we'll ever get back to that, but ideally the rate of inflation can stabilize enough for costs and in-game caps, fees, etc. to be relatively in line with the overall economy.

So, recurring credit cost options that I see tossed around and approve of:

1. Purchase  additional decoration copies for personal stronghold: With a lot of decorations just not available due to loot table drop changes to flashpoints over the years and the elimination of specific packs form the Cartel Market, there's an incentive to form a guild for one character just to unlock copies of decorations that (if they're even available on the GTN at all) cost more than fully unlocking a stronghold of any size. I'd love to pay a million credits a pop to buy a retired chair ten or twenty times to fill out a room with a certain theme or style.

2. Appearance Designer changes for credits: I know players who like to change their hairstyle weekly (or more often), and opening up those alterations from default or kits they've previously bought to credits (NOT buying new styles through the designer for credits) would be a good way to trim back excess credits.

3. Galactic Starfighter cosmetics: These stopped being sold in the Cartel Market, so I presume they weren't selling well at their Cartel Market cost rates, given that they were per-character. That might make them a prime opportunity to pull out at least a few credits.

I am hesitant to bring back general skill trainer costs, given the game has edged away from skill trainers entirely.

Adjusting loot tables to generate more items (with little/no vendor value) and fewer credits may also help; generate more things to sell and tax the sale of, slow down the accumulation.

1. Purchase additional decoration copies for personal stronghold - would absolutely love this one. There are plenty of decoration items I would pay to have multiple copies of (including some of the Galactic Seasons ones). In addition, create a credits-paid unlock which would allow to continue decorating stronghold beyond 100% or change hooks beyond normally available options (Manaan stronghold could certainly benefit from something like that).

2. Appearance Designer changes for credits: - love this too and would add to it an ability to change certain things about ones appearance per outfit such as hairstyle, jewelry, etc. (things a regular person could change without requiring a plastic surgery).

3. Galactic Starfighter cosmetics - can't speak to that one since I don't play Starfighter.

I'd like to add my voice to an overall dissatisfaction with these announced changes. They will not help the economy (which is a stated intent) and will hit new players more than anyone else resulting in fewer players overall, fewer new subscribers, worse overall experience for everyone, and less potential profits for Bioware in the long run (dissatisfied customers have a tendency to leave). The added stronghold travel costs also smell of bait-and-switch advertisement which may cause all sorts of other issues considering many paid for Stronghold with Cartel Coins and not just credits.

If the person behind these ideas is the same one who proposed Galactic Seasons collection unlock cost increase, Bioware may have a saboteur in their ranks (or perhaps someone who doesn't really know what they are doing - though I'm not sure which one is worse ).

[Blakinik]

I don't see how this will solve anything.  The reason is you announced it.  You just gave everyone that has resources the reason to exploit this knowledge and monopolize it.  Allow me to explain.

I can unload a few 100 Dark Projects.  This can earn me several billion credits on the GTN.  Afterwards, I just play the "hold out" game in which I simply don't spend money.  And after prices start to fall those with the high levels of cash will snag everything and still sell at insane amounts.  If you have a monopoly before you will have a monopoly after.

Instead try this idea - Give a reason or incentive to credit sink it from existence.  One idea is a limited time to get some rare items or non-credit items (cartel coin only for instance) items and sell at a fixed price.  The catch is it is bound to legacy so it cannot be resold.  Something like the companion compendium or even new items for credits in which you literally pull billion of credits out and gives people incentives to do it.  That would have meaningful impact.

Moving forward, add in future incentives that are not game breaking.  Examples could be accelerators for people with multiple alts in which could make they able to have permanent xp boosts if they meet criteria like 10/20/30/40/50/60/70/80/90/100 characters hit max level or some other gate.  Or allow for cosmetic sinks like vendor items locked to legacy or bind on pickup.  Alternatively, maybe have some tokens when can remove a bind on pickup and make it bind on legacy.  

[PeterMurdockBaz]

The new quick travel system is awful. Having a pop up ask me if I'm sure I want to do it everytime is extremely annoying. And good luck to any new players starting out that don't already have billions of credits because all your money will be sucked away by the exorbitant fees on the starter planets. 

This was a terrible idea that never should have made it out of the planning stage. 

[OlBuzzard]

I understand why some of these changes are being made:
** A large number of folks have been demanding it (be careful what you wish for ... it may just happen)
** Some credit sinks are needed (but why on earth charge people for what has been a perk for years now).  The travel charges are just plain UGH!!  FRUSTRATING!!!  (I really am trying to keep this under control).

[/Facepalm] (good grief)

Look ...  let me try to keep this simple.  It's not intended to be an insult...  Just trying to get someone to see the flow of things!
** Taxes are a Band-Aid (if initiated just by themselves) 
** Loop holes REALLY do need to be plugged!  (ie:  off trading from the GTN. )  I don't care if you added a total of 20% taxation to any amount over 500mil.  ANY taxation will be avoided if it is done outside of the GTN.  So if there are any plans in the works to do this I would suggest looking more closely at the program and engaging it ASAP!
** And perhaps the single biggest of all .. the source of the flood of extra credits pouring INTO SWTOR is being ignored.  The bottom line is that regardless of what is done it will ALL be for nothing and only those who have been playing by the rules (so to speak) will pay for what is taking place.  Something has to be done to stop the massive amounts of credits being generated.  This is not done by getting ticked off at someone who makes credits off of the GTN...  that's just credit swapping (exchanging credits for mats / decos or any one of a few dozen different items).  In short .. got to the source of the matter and plug the leak!  Fix the problem.

Address all of these simultaneously and things will begin to return to normal.  

BTW...  it should be noted that I'm not opposed to some of the suggestions such as offering some CC in exchange for a rather large sum of credits.

Heck ... I might even shell out a good chunk for something I REALLY wanted REALLY bad ...  (but it would have to be something that was REALLY THAT nice)!

EDIT:  Additional note:  Regarding some of the ideas floating around regarding credit / CC trades etc... BOP so that said items can't find their way to the GTN for additional insane prices!

Edited February 11, 2023 by OlBuzzard
clarification

[OlBuzzard]

On 2/9/2023 at 3:51 PM, casirabit said:

Copying my reply from the other forum since they only want people that go to the test server to respond, even though everyone knows how this could or would affect them without testing it.

 

Some changes and repair changes are acceptable, but the cost of priority, stronghold, and quick travel seems an overreach for me. Still, I seriously doubt you will listen to anyone; it has been proven in the past.  If you are trying to drive people away, keep on with these changes, and you will succeed.  I always log off in my stronghold, but now you are forcing people not to if they do not want to pay a stupid tax to travel to their stronghold.   You are giving me more reasons to quit playing altogether.  I have already been playing another game but have tried to be here, but why I don't know anymore. 

You know you could take the decorations off the cartel shop (I know you won't) and place them on vendors and guess what? People who want some decorations would use their credits, but you cannot do that. You must be arbitrary and tax those with strongholds, those that use quick travel or priority travel as a quick fix; well, it is not a quick fix.  

Nothing will be done to endanger the cash cow!  It's just that simple!  There's a number of things that has been mentioned that would be great way to spend credits on..  BUT doubtful at best that it will ever happen. WHY..???????  simply because those items are (in one way or another) connected to the CM and the cash (money from consumer wallets) that is poured into the coffers of EA daily from said sales.

[RCOneTwoSixTwo]

Ideas:
The travel/stronghold fees and repair fees don't especially bother or impact me. 

Amplifiers were a decent credit sink in the past, but they had an awful RNG aspect I didn't like. 

Suggestions of credit sinks:
- More decorations
- More perks to unlock, and armor unlocks (like social gear or Remnant gear, not CM items)
- Being able to flat out buy the older sets from 6.0 rather than the finicky method with inventory with Kai
 

But my craziest idea is:
Credits for Tech fragments
As a loose idea 10M for 1,000 fragments. 
- One, I expect that everyone with money will rush to buy the embers, OEMs, etc.  This will saturate the market, potentially bringing the price down. 
- Two, it makes tech fragments more attainable.
- Three, we can always use tech fragments and continue to need them. 
- Four, once spent on fragments, the credits are out of circulation and the player has a shiny new thing. 
- Five, I expect the players with a lot of money will benefit the most from this.  It gives them something to spend money on. 
- Six, if you add more things to purchase with tech fragments (or move vendors accepting fragments to this room), you can encourage more tech/credit spending

Of course, I'm hesitant of implementing this idea, but . . . it would also appeal to me for a chance to pick up some of those old sets I couldn't get the last piece for.  Quite all right without the best augments/gear.  :)

[eabevella]

9 hours ago, EricMusco said:

Hey folks,

First off, thank you all for the feedback here in the thread and especially for those who have jumped on PTS and played around with the changes. There are some great points of feedback and questions in the thread and I want to respond to some of the themes we are seeing.

These changes are not enough!
You are correct, and we know that, but it is a starting point. It is very important that we make these changes slowly and that we monitor their impacts closely. There are some excellent suggestions in this thread for further changes that are already in the works. As we said up front, you should expect to see changes that focus on the economy throughout the next few updates.

We want to start small and in targeted ways. More changes are coming in future updates.

Let me give you some specifics based on suggestions I am seeing in the thread. We know that players exchanging high value items will often trade outside of the GTN. Either because of its sale cap, or to avoid getting taxed at all on the transaction. This is likely the place you will see a number of changes coming after 7.2.1 to stop the loophole, and to start properly taxing high value trades. 

You're Not Hurting the Rich!
Well, we aren't trying to, not specifically. Inflation in its simplest form is about the amount of credits entering the economy against the amount coming out of it. Over time we have shot ourselves in the foot a bit as we have removed or minimized most regular credit sinks (removing training costs, etc).

The goal of these changes is to introduce passive, small credit removal to the game. This way we have credit removal a bit more in line with our credit generation. Removing singular batches of credits from a subset of players would not lower credit inflation (although it is an important component of it), and could not replace this type of passive removal.

We Need Credit Sinks

We hear you that it would also be great to have some more "spend a LOT of credits to get something specific" but one consideration is that many of the suggestions being made are one time purchases which do not continually reduce credits. As we have many systems that continually introduce credits, we need more things that reduce credits often and not on a one time basis. 

To help balance this, we have been steadily adding credit sinks over the past year or so. Most prominently would be the catch-up mechanic in both Galactic and PvP Seasons. The credit costs in those catch-ups can become quite substantial.

Could You Bring Back Amplifiers?
In short order, no. Our items are not built to have Amplifiers on them since we removed the system. However, the sentiment of this question is solid and is in alignment with what I said earlier, this is another example where we have removed some credit sinks.

The Stronghold Change Particularly Sucks
Yeah, let's talk about this one and our goal. As we are introducing a variety of passive costs to travel, players will inevitably look to find a way to subvert it, even if it is a small cost.

One way players could do this is to use the SH travel to a planet and then Exit Area. Our concern here isn't actually for traveling to the SH, it would be a player trying to use that as a stepping stone onto the planet itself.

With that said, we hear you on the sentiment of this one feeling especially punitive, paying to travel to something you paid for. So here is what we are going to try to change it to. We will not charge you to travel to a SH. Instead we would simply apply a travel cost to using Exit Area.

Note that this is not how it is implemented currently so it will require a bit of time to switch. If we can't make this change in time for launch we will likely do NO charges for SH travel in 7.2.1 and implement the proposed credit cost as noted above in the future.

Thanks all! Keep the feedback coming.

-eric
 

You still don't get it, do you?

Not "these changes are not enough" but "these changes are WRONG"

Where do you think charging people for QT and through SH will go?

NOWHERE except the message that BW HATES CASUAL/SOLO PLAYERS.

But I guess you said it "We aren't trying to hurt the rich" lmao

Any method that will stop/slow the inflation and improve the economy WILL AND SHOULD "HURT" THE RICH.

That's the POINT: THE RICH IS THE PROBLEM OF INFLATION. THEY CONTROL THE MARKET.

Irl this means progressive tax, law to prevent monopoly etc.. Those rules and laws "hurt" the rich so that there are something to prevent them to literally control every aspect of our life like how those Trade manipulator control the SWTOR market.

People don't need meaningless attempts that only hurt the poor people.

People want fixes to the credit sellers, Trade loophole and GTN cap.

What's not clear about it?

Also, this shows how BAD your communication skill is and the problem of NOT HAVING A ROADMAP.

If you said in the beginning that "our first step is to introduce small credit sinks, but later in this year, we'll have patches to fix the GTN and Trade" with a list of objectives in 2023. Then even if this first step is not helping at all, at least people know there will be fixes that will actually help THIS YEAR.

You see how having a roadmap could save you some flame and "insult"? (imagine facing shareholders with your way of communication and presentation irl. Insult will be the least thing you should be worry about lol)

Guess you don't otherwise you won't be repeating the same problem over and over and over.

[OlBuzzard]

11 minutes ago, eabevella said:

You still don't get it, do you?

Not "these changes are not enough" but "these changes are WRONG"

Where do you think charging people for QT and through SH will go?

NOWHERE except the message that BW HATES CASUAL/SOLO PLAYERS.

But I guess you said it "We aren't trying to hurt the rich" lmao

Any method that will stop/slow the inflation and improve the economy WILL AND SHOULD "HURT" THE RICH.

That's the POINT: THE RICH IS THE PROBLEM OF INFLATION. THEY CONTROL THE MARKET.

Irl this means progressive tax, law to prevent monopoly etc.. Those rules and laws "hurt" the rich so that there are something to prevent them to literally control every aspect of our life like how those Trade manipulator control the SWTOR market.

People don't need meaningless attempts that only hurt the poor people.

People want fixes to the credit sellers, Trade loophole and GTN cap.

What's not clear about it?

Also, this shows how BAD your communication skill is and the problem of NOT HAVING A ROADMAP.

If you said in the beginning that "our first step is to introduce small credit sinks, but later in this year, we'll have patches to fix the GTN and Trade" with a list of objectives in 2023. Then even if this first step is not helping at all, at least people know there will be fixes that will actually help THIS YEAR.

You see how having a roadmap could save you some flame and "insult"? (imagine facing shareholders with your way of communication and presentation irl. Insult will be the least thing you should be worry about lol)

Guess you don't otherwise you won't be repeating the same problem over and over and over.

I'm not trying to be hateful, nor do I have an axe to grind ... BUT IMO ... the last few weeks has definitely sent a resounding message to the community!   

Thankfully with the outcry of several other players some adjustments have been made to the original concepts of how to fix things.  NO!  I would prefer to not derail this thread with other details.

That said ... IMO you are 100% correct.  And this matter in particular was made apparent some time back.  Yet the simple fact is that even games like FFIV are making changes for the better!  

The good news is that things don't HAVE to remain in a state of confusion and disarray here at SWTOR!  

If the current trend continues in the GS series (for example) as well as other areas that we have seen ... then quite frankly they (someone inside of BW/EA)  will be helping me make one of the easiest decisions / choices that I will be faced with this year!  Life is entirely too short to try to spend it with someone who is obstinate and disconcerting when it comes to something that should be so simple and enjoyable as SWTOR!  Why on earth be so ...  frankly the exact term really does escape me right now!  

I personally will enjoy what I can here.  And if things continue ...  then .. (hang on a second...)

"Waiter ... OH Waiter!  I'll have that slice of double chocolate cake right now ... and YES please bring me a fresh pot of BRC (dark roast) to go with it!"

😉

[xordevoreaux]

4 hours ago, casirabit said:

Stronghold upkeep is a suggestion

If I reached into my wallet and burned real-world currency buying cartel coins to buy a stronghold with cartel coins versus credits, no.

If I buy a stronghold with credits, and then transfer servers, that stronghold does not travel across as part of my legacy, and I must buy it again. Not true if I buy the stronghold with cartel coins. CC-purchased strongholds travel with one's legacy to another server (if albeit undecorated).

If I did not reach into my wallet, and used credits instead of cartel coins to buy a house, then fine. Make the house a credit maintenance item.

But not if I burned real-world money on it.  The same happens in Everquest 2 right now. I can buy a house with in-game currency + something called status, which is in effect a grindable alternative currency. Certain houses bought this way require weekly upkeep. Some require just in-game coin, others require coin+status.

The bigger or fancier the house, the higher the weekly rent. Store-bought houses, however, which cannot be purchased directly in the game but only through their equivalent of the cartel market, may cost anywhere from $20 and higher, and have no rent burden, as is only right.

Edited February 11, 2023 by xordevoreaux

[recalcitrantIre]

12 hours ago, EricMusco said:

You're Not Hurting the Rich!

 

Well, we aren't trying to, not specifically.

well there goes any hope of a meaningful solution

[Deaconik]

BTW who are the rich? Where's the line? 10b? 5b? 50b? Cause I got to 9b in 3 months just by playing nim operations and using all the tech fragments to sell OEMs/RPMs. Am I rich? Cause I Don't feel rich, I can't essentially buy more than 1 fancy item in the chat...

[Robbie_Martin]

On 2/9/2023 at 2:06 PM, Aakurb said:

Poor players will become poorer, rich players won't be affected.

Exactly what I was going to say.  I think Bioware is back on the pipe again.  I mean how the heck is a credit cost for QT going to help new players?   

[Toraak]

5 hours ago, Deaconik said:

BTW who are the rich? Where's the line? 10b? 5b? 50b? Cause I got to 9b in 3 months just by playing nim operations and using all the tech fragments to sell OEMs/RPMs. Am I rich? Cause I Don't feel rich, I can't essentially buy more than 1 fancy item in the chat...

This is the biggest thing I'm noticing. People have different opinions on Rich in this game. For an example I don't spend credits on Cosmetics, it simply isn't my thing. If I have enough credits to play swtor without having to farm anything, then I'm rich enough. At this point I do have 50b, but I doubt I spend more then 500k a week at most, and I can easily make more then that doing my normal activities.

[Vanechka]

The travel suggested changes will not affect current players, Brand new players are the only ones that will be affected in a negative way. Best not to implement.

Ideas about credit sink. I have mentioned in the past. Key word is "Bound-on-Pick"

I know Bioware needs makes money out of subs and Cartel Coin sold, but there needs to be a bit of balance in order to fix the inflation problem. 

I also know am going to get heat from those "traders" that are a great part of the problem with inflation.

1-There are vendors at the Bazaar in the Fleet are that have BOUND-ON-PICK copy of great Cartel Market items, Please add more vendors or resupply them with more up-to-date items. Let the system get those credits not the greedy trading pirates.

2-Decorations. Many of the ultra rich are willing to pay credits for super rare decos hard to find, add a vendor for it and make them BOUND ON PICK.

3-Dyes. Bound on Pick option with credits.

4-Cartel Crates. Make them "BOUND ON PICK" When opened the items can still be bound for the usual day and a half and available for trade after. This will decrease the rampage of the traders inflating the GTN. Preying on mostly new players with Cartel coins willing to burn coins for quick huge credit pay. These people are just as bad as the credit farmers, 

5-PVP Repair. While a lot of these people don't do much that affects the economy, at least it will force them to do some work to generate credits from the system.

6- Reduce the amount of credits cap on Player to player trade. (Who needs to transfer billions of credits at once? That is more than enough credits to unlock anything in legacy to an account legacy-wide with 40+ Alts. with repairs and travel paid for life. This is targeted to those Traders purchasing Cartel crates or super inflated items feel a bit uneasy at trading person to person.

7- I may be going far with this but here goes, Make the WHOLE cartel market available to purchase with credits. This will force "traders" to put a cap on their ridiculous super inflated prices, and possibly make Credit purchases be BOUND ON PICK.

8- GTN commission should not be fixed. The higher the price, the higher the tax. This will discourage inflated price of goods.

There is a cap in credits for a reason, let the greedy traders hit the cap, excess credits will just disappear from the system. Do not increase the cap on personal, legacy, guild credits.  

It is best to target the source of these credits. Reduce the amount of credits earned at high levels. Rewards for mats and other currency is fine, just reduce or tax the income on high level quests, rewards. This will decrease the amount of credits made from the system, lowering demand for high level items and as a result decrease price of goods.

Edited February 12, 2023 by Vanechka

[SilentMagician]

I fully agree with the rejection of these travel costs. Charging for travel is entirely inappropriate. It severely penalizes new players; no one else will notice or care. Same deal with repair costs, which are already significantly high at higher levels. Besides, these will remove only chump change from the economy; they're so superficial as to be worth nothing at all to the problem at hand. Steer your thoughts away from daily mundane activities.

Additionally, current credit rewards warrant no reduction. They are what they need to be for the average player who doesn't have a fortune. For the billionaires, credit rewards mean nothing. I skip bonus missions that reward only credits because they're at a meaninglessly small amount for me. REMOVING rewards solves nothing; you want to drain credits.

The only real changes that will properly drain credits are providing things people want to buy with credits, and I fully agree with all the ideas I've seen so far:

- Place old decs, outfits, mounts, emotes, pets, etc., with vendors for credits ... at least ones that are not permanently available on the Cartel Market. If you tie them to reputation, which is not a bad idea, make any special currencies easy to get. If I have to buy cartel packs to get special currencies, I'm not paying credits to buy stuff. I can't tell how many times I've discovered something I want and looked into how to get it, only to find it's not something I can buy from a vendor. I would totally shell out credits if I had the option.

- Increase the decoration limit for strongholds and have a credit cost for buying those dec increases. It's been years; there's no reason why I shouldn't be able to add more stuff to my strongholds when I still have oodles of physical space left.

- New strongholds when? I logged on for the first time in years and there was literally nothing new. Honestly shocking that the stronghold scene has been so stagnant.

- The gambling/Nar Shaddaa perma-event for highly desired rewards is an amazing idea. You should also include exclusive items that people have missed out on, like subscriber rewards (pets, mounts, etc.) and PTS rewards. I was going to join the warzone event for the special mount, only to discover that setup required hours of re-downloading a game I already have and it would never finish in time. The PTS event was dead on arrival.

- Get rid of the billion extra currency types. This ties into the myth of "play the way you want" that you claim to have but actually don't, simply because rewards and high-end gear are locked behind special group content/special currencies from special content. Let me pay for things with credits.

- It's also going to be important not to charge billions for improvements/unlocks/decs/bling/ANYTHING. These things still need to be reasonably accessible for a brand new player to work up to buying. I would throw the game away if I saw a cost of $1B for something, especially since game rewards will never get me there. Instead, you need to have plenty of offerings at lower costs to drain the credits.

I understand that the superficial travel and normal gameplay penalties are the "start of the initiative" (notice that normal gameplay penalties is a TERRIBLE concept) but they are dead in the water. Do not start with them, do not pass Go, do not add additional credit-sink methods to them. Move on and forget them entirely.

[SilentMagician]

19 hours ago, EricMusco said:

You're Not Hurting the Rich!
Well, we aren't trying to, not specifically. Inflation in its simplest form is about the amount of credits entering the economy against the amount coming out of it. Over time we have shot ourselves in the foot a bit as we have removed or minimized most regular credit sinks (removing training costs, etc).

The goal of these changes is to introduce passive, small credit removal to the game. This way we have credit removal a bit more in line with our credit generation. Removing singular batches of credits from a subset of players would not lower credit inflation (although it is an important component of it), and could not replace this type of passive removal.

Then your plan is dead on arrival. "Passive, small credit removal" hurts new players. Full Stop. When you remove credits from the subset of players who have BILLIONS, yes that does lower inflation. That's how it works.

Also, thinking in terms of hurting people is just wrong. Don't implement changes to hurt. You have to incentivize people to spend credits. If I'm a new player and I don't have 2K to spend on travel, I'm going to go by foot and I might decide I hate the game and stop playing, because it's gone from fun to painful and stupid.

There are SO MANY positive unlocks you could do. Once upon a time I could drive past mobs on my speeder without getting jumped very easily. Getting higher level speeders helped you do that. Now it doesn't matter what speeder I have or what level I'm at. I'll get thrown off on the entry level planets. Where's my Lvl 60 unlock to stay on my speeder and keep driving?

Bring the personal trainers back. When I level up now, my new abilities don't always populate my quickbar so I don't even know I have them. The trainers just stand around for nothing and it's incredibly sad. I used to get excited seeing the icon over my trainer's head that indicated I had new fun things to pick up and use. Now I just mourn for the "good old days."

Look, I'm not even among the uber rich by the sounds of people selling/buying things for multi-billions in the trade chat. But even so, the small-time changes won't make me bat an eye and I will happily continue racking up more and more credits, completely unaffected. All the "rich" players are TELLING you what they want to be able to spend credits on. These aren't one-time purchases either. I need multiple copies of decs to make my stronghold the way I want. I want higher dec limits on my strongholds so I can put more multiple copies of decs. I want to collect decs to collect decs. People want old and retired outfits and the ability to have them in Collections. There are so many things people would buy if they were available TO buy.

Probably worth listening to that.

[OlBuzzard]

12 hours ago, TrixxieTriss said:

That doesn’t remove the credits from the system that cause the inflation. All it does is cap how much someone can sell those for on the GTN🤷🏻‍♀️. I’m assuming that’s the sales cap you’re talking about & not selling the items to a vendor. 

Simply taking credits out of players coffers won't address the matter either!  Not unless something is done about WHERE the EXCESS credits are coming from.

EDIT:  Otherwise it's like the difference between dipping a swimming pool vs the OCEAN dry with a coffee can.  Any guess which is which and what the results will be? 

Edited February 11, 2023 by OlBuzzard

[DawnAskham]

4 minutes ago, OlBuzzard said:

Simply taking credits out of players coffers won't address the matter either!  Not unless something is done about WHERE the EXCESS credits are coming from.

Too many people, including Bioware, are ignoring the elephant in the room.

Selling CM items, flipping, selling mats, selling carries, selling crafted items, etc, regardless of the sales channel (e.g GTN, player trade, mailbox), DOES NOT CREATE CREDITS.

Credits are created ONLY through drops on defeated enemies, rewards, and selling items to vendors.

And I cannot fathom a legitimate normal gameplay loop that generates the amount of excess credits circulating in the economy.

Ergo exploits and TOS violators (bots) continue to drive the excessive amount of credits in the economy, and unless and until this side of the equation is addressed, applying nuisance sinks that mostly impact newer and causal players is a recipe for failure.

 

[OlBuzzard]

1 minute ago, DawnAskham said:

Too many people, including Bioware, are ignoring the elephant in the room.

Selling CM items, flipping, selling mats, selling carries, selling crafted items, etc, regardless of the sales channel (e.g GTN, player trade, mailbox), DOES NOT CREATE CREDITS.

Credits are created ONLY through drops on defeated enemies, rewards, and selling items to vendors.

And I cannot fathom a legitimate normal gameplay loop that generates the amount of excess credits circulating in the economy.

Ergo exploits and TOS violators (bots) continue to drive the excessive amount of credits in the economy, and unless and until this side of the equation is addressed, applying nuisance sinks that mostly impact newer and causal players is a recipe for failure.

 

The shear mass of EXCESS credits has to be generated from somewhere!!!  It's just that simple.  Heck even credit farming takes time!! 

IMO (even though I don't have the tech background to explain all of the technobabble behind it) I have figured out a while back that there was something else going on.  I have nothing against anyone earning stuff.  Buy / sale / trade / farming.  As long as it is above board and legitimate .. I'm good with it!
** Circumventing the GTN to avoid caps and taxes
** Exploits
** Bots
** Credit sellers

These items are at the TOP of this old mans hit list to be dealt with.  I may not be offering the top 10 most popular posts (blaming the rich for everything under the sun) BUT if we really are serious about this issue then we MUST find what is generating the EXCESS BILLIONS upon BILLIONS of credits and take steps to prevent it from happening again!  Otherwise, we are right back where we started.

[DWho]

2 minutes ago, OlBuzzard said:

** Circumventing the GTN to avoid caps and taxes
** Exploits
** Bots
** Credit sellers

These are what Bioware should have dealt with first instead of nickle and diming casual players to death. In the business vernacular, these are "low hanging fruit". Big impact for relatively little effort (especially the GTN circumvention). One sale circumventing the GTN tax is equivalent to hundreds of players travelling all day even with the current silly high travel costs that have been proposed. As long as outside GTN trades are allowed, the GTN can't do it's job of removing credits.

You do also have to crack down on alternate currencies like hypercrates or people will just use those in trade instead of credits. Sales runs exchange billions of credits and yet pay not a dime of "taxes"

[OlBuzzard]

3 minutes ago, DWho said:

These are what Bioware should have dealt with first instead of nickle and diming casual players to death. In the business vernacular, these are "low hanging fruit". Big impact for relatively little effort (especially the GTN circumvention). One sale circumventing the GTN tax is equivalent to hundreds of players travelling all day even with the current silly high travel costs that have been proposed. As long as outside GTN trades are allowed, the GTN can't do it's job of removing credits.

You do also have to crack down on alternate currencies like hypercrates or people will just use those in trade instead of credits. Sales runs exchange billions of credits and yet pay not a dime of "taxes"

Agreed!!!  If we want to deal with BILLIONS in EXCESS ... then follow the cash flow and find out WHERE in the name of common sense it's coming from and do what you can (the best you can) to stop it!  Penalizing the AVERAGE person (who BTW is NOT sitting on hundreds of BILLIONS) is simply not the wisest approach!

Cut the problem off at the source!  Then we can find ways to facilitate curbing things down to a normal, more manageable level of functionality.  

[yastruyastru]

25 minutes ago, OlBuzzard said:

** Circumventing the GTN to avoid caps and taxes 

 

Yes, this is working as intended. If you spend time to find a buyer for something, and meet him with in person, why should you be taxed same as someone that put the item on auction house and forgot about it for 3 days? 

I absolutely do not want this to be capped or taxed in any way.  

Its also good thing as a MMO aspect that players buy and sell items to each other instead of putting it on GTN and that should not be penalized, even more, it should be incentivized. 

Edited February 11, 2023 by yastruyastru