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Credit Economy Initiative beginning with 7.2.1


JackieKo

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I´m convinced that it´s impossible to control inflation as long as it´s possible to kinda illegally buy credits from third parties. But let´s not talk about this.

Ressources are the biggest issue right now. That´s what sells for ridiculous amounts and the credits just go from one player to another. Reduce the importance of ressources in systems that are connected to gameplay progress and increase the amount of craftable cosmetic stuff. Let more people use their own ressources instead of selling them to high levellers to craft augments. Right now we have these low tier decorations that the game gives you for free and very special high tier decoration in the cartel market. Add a mid tier range of deco that´s directly craftable. Just normal tables, chairs, shelves and lamps... we do have too few of them anyway.

 

The planned "credit sinks" just make it harder for new players and don´t drain veterans´ accounts at all. Possible real credit sinks:

- New stronghold(s) that cost like double or three times the amount of current strongholds

- An option to buy strongholds pre-decorated with thematically fitting, new decoration

- The option to buy the flagship components with credits instead of dark projects

- A new vendor, who sells cartel items for credits and with an inventory that changes weekly

These would not affect progress in any meaningful way and pretty much only take credits off the veterans, not new players. And maybe a super expansive new stronghold even adds another motivation for new people to grind even more.

Now there would be one very radical way to reduce the available amount of credits at once. Give players the one-time option to buy cartel coins with credits. 2 million credits for one coin. That would be 500 coins for 1 billion of credits. One time per account! Give players who pay at least 10 billion the full VIP treatment: Flair, legacy title, legendary mount/companion/pet...

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45 minutes ago, XCDER said:

I´m convinced that it´s impossible to control inflation as long as it´s possible to kinda illegally buy credits from third parties. But let´s not talk about this

Why not, why talk about all unimportant things? Why not talk about the relevant things?

The reason bioware isn't as aware of this as they should be is because its actually not allowed to "promote" aka report those accounts publicly, but at the same time reporting them in privte is impossible because a player cannot gather evidence, for example in game screenshots do not count as evidence in this matter. But if many players would back someones clain of account sharing bioware would have evidence beyond a reasonable doubt - but again, its against the forum guidelines. The people who sell accounts have character names, account names everything public and yet bioware closes their eyes. I can't bring attention to this because it counts as promotion. So it is not only uneffective but straight up impossible to report other players who break the ToS.

This is ultimately the problem. Credit buyers and sellers don't get banned because we just can't report them. At that is just the truth, bioware brought inflation on us with these weird forum guide lines where we have to pretend all of it doesn't exist so they get good PR and its appealing to new players. The devs don't know its going on, and they probably don't want to know.

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I will take my chance here, and quote my self from here: Fix Inflation PLEASE - Page 6 - General Discussion - SWTOR | Forums

 There are only so many ways inflation can be dealt with. And contrary to what people are let to believe, rising prices are not inflation. Inflation is the influxes of more money into circulation, meaning they will have less and less value the more money that are being printed and put into circulation. Rising prices are just a result of this inflation. Because the purchasing power is lowered at X rate over Y time, inflation leads to lower demand-pull, leading sellers to demand ever higher prices, making savings even less worth, rinse repeat.

In a game like SWTOR, most real world tools like regulating interests on savings will not work. Making regulations on demand-pull or selling bonds to high-rollers to get them to send much needed money into government pockets that can be used to generate needed boosts in production (public spending, infrastructure, hospitals, you name it) or lowering the taxes on the worst hit segments of the population, giving them more buying power can not be done for obvious reasons. In the real world, that would (ideally) create a state of stagnation in the economy. The first step to get inflation under control.

But those options are not possible in SWTOR, for reasons.

To get a segment economy like this inside SWTOR under control (note that I try to use real world options and ideas) one would need 5 or 6 steps, and most of them would make the players hate BW.

1)      Demand for money sinks. Return costs for training of skills and change of abilities. Make unlocks cost small amounts of credits not cartel coins (and I mean small amounts, to also allow f2p and new players to have those options). And I DON’T mean unlocks of costumes, weapons, pets, mounts or the like from collections, I mean game mechanisms. See 6.

2)      Slow down the leveling rate (e.g. cut exp gains with a factor 10 or 12 (back to the good old 1.0 to 4.0 days)). And return the credit gain from completing missions to same level. Why? To make credits come at a slow natural way through effort. This also happens to give players a reason to play the entire game and all missions, so win/win for BW. Players, who make credits this way, tend to be more selective on how and on what they spend them. That’s actually good for the economy.

3)      Tax. Most of the ideas I have read in this thread is downright useless when it comes to taxing, and just shows that the players are more interested in not cutting into their own income. Really? The tax on GTN needs to be divided into 3 levels, depending on the amount of money an item is put up for. Level 1 = 30 % for less than 100 million. Level 2 = 40% for between 100 million and 500 million. Level 3 = 50% for above 500 million. Those tax levels are about the only way to combat the pricing of valueless pixels so high that even real world central banks would sweat. An added benefit of this is that those who plays the GTN will not be able to do so with out losing money. Thats good for economy, cutting down speculation.

4)      Remove the option to trade player to player, and the option of mailing credits, it has the added benefit of killing off gold sellers. That happens to both benefit BW and the in-game economy. 

5)      Make crafting a thing again. And put real credit value on ALL special crafting mats, and stop gating them behind content. That way, value can be calculated. Good for economy.

6)      And lastly. FIX EXCHANGE RATES. Make fixed values of items, services (like GTN slots) conveniences (like character slots, species, and more)  and cosmetics that can be unlocked, either after being bought directly from CM or GTN, have a related credit value that rises automatically depending on the amount of credits you have in total on your legacy.  

I KNOW much of this will be frowned upon, but that is about what realistically can be done. And I know it will be painful. But the game is running low on options with any lasting effect. And this will have a lasting effect, not just push larger problems ahead into the future.

Especially the problem of cartel coins floating around is a sensitive matter, because most players has developed the idea that free coins are a human right. Fun fact; you dont even have the right to those 600 coins you get each month for subbing. Thats NOT free, it is a token from BW saying thanks for your money. NOT FREE. Aside from those 600 coins each month, the real deal that would help a lot on the economy is to cut the amount of coins players can get with out having to spend real money to the bare minimum. Period. 

Edited by MortenJessen
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3 hours ago, Diamaht said:

Take your insults elsewhere child. 

The point is they can't worry about managing too much money in the system until the system is fixed.  Raising the cap and taxing billionaire traders may very well help bleed out some of the excess money.  It also might help mitigate prices. 

However, it also might drive up market prices on existing items since their prices will naturally be compared to the new multi billion dollar prices that were introduced to the market with that limit increase.  If someone is putting something up for sale they will look at existing prices to see what they need to compete with.  If the threshold goes up then ALL prices will gradually rise to meet that new threshold since everyone charges as much as they can get away with. 

They can test this out if they like.  Raise the cap by 300 million.  If you see over the course of a month all prices gradually increase to meet that new max you will know that is not a good idea.

The point is, there is no single perfect action that they can take to manage an entire game economy.  This change is a nice base level change that limits the amount of money going into the system right from the start.  Edit:  And it will likely need to be combined with quite a few other core changes, in order to prevent the issue from persisting.

But by all means continue to bath the devs, and anyone else who disagrees with you, with insults.  That usually gets people to do exactly what you want them to do.  It's worked for you so far.

Lmao what are you? Dev alt?

You insult yourself by raging over people who called out an idiotic plan that'll do nothing but hurt new/solo players.

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Regarding the proposed changes that are on the PTS, I am not convinced this is going to solve the problem ...

These changes increase the outgoing credits from people who actively play the game, and this makes sense to a point. The trouble is, these are not really the people driving the inflationary in-game economy, as far as I can determine.

The people driving the economy are those who log in only to:

  • sell in trade chat
  • play the GTN for credits (buy low, sell high, you know how it is)
  • buy credits with real life currency, then buy stuff from the cartel market to sell

None of these are wrong or unethical, but they combine to make a problem, especially when this is all you do in-game.

These people play meta-games within the game to drive their in-game riches. Whether or not these people are RMTers (those who sell in-game credits for real money) is a subject of debate and perception, but the way this RMT crap works is you have to be absurdly rich in-game to do this. And the way this is done is not via playing the game.

And so I am at a loss to suggest how you remove credits from people whose play styles I have identified above, but these are the people driving the inflated in-game economy, and we need changes that will affect their vast riches before the economy can be fixed.

Sadly, I fear the proposed changes are going to leave the absurdly rich unaffected.

EDIT: a bad choice of words, that is causing people to get hung up on my post ... I should have said "And so I am at a loss to suggest how to remove credit income from people whose play styles I have identified above, ..."

Edited by Syrlex
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19 minutes ago, Syrlex said:

And so I am at a loss to suggest how you remove credits from people whose play styles I have identified above, but these are the people driving the inflated in-game economy, and we need changes that will affect their vast riches before the economy can be fixed.

No one will have any credits removed, as in taken from them. There are a few things wrong with your short post, mostly that it ignores 3/4 of the problem, but the part I quoted above is the worst. Trust me, if you read my post above yours, and even dares to follow the link to the original thread, you will see that even I will not go there (despite very rich players desperately trying to read it into what I wrote, in attempts to argue against me). It is simply a no-go. One has to restrict the rich players ability to get more credits, a lot, but never take from them.

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4 hours ago, TrixxieTriss said:

You need to limit people trading CM items outside of the GTN so that they have more of incentive to use the GTN. 

Hmm my impression of which items get sold in trades rather than the GTN may be different than yours. From what I've seen the majority of what people take to trades are things that sell over the GTN limit.

If you restrict trades on 4b value items, people aren't going to start selling them for 1b. They'll just circumvent the restrictions like they do now for 10b value items.

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My idea would be during the Casino event to turn off any forms of trading, GTN, mails with credits etc...

Place some vendors with old gear sets from the beginning of the game and even new schematics for the battlemaster gear etc...
Ofc for high prices!

But i honestly think if you shut down all forms of trading during the casino event as it is a credit sink event tbh would do good things :) ad some more rewards to it some very rare ones that will be SUPER hard to obtain

and when the event ends just add some very big taxes to trading etc...

Edited by Plagousi
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4 hours ago, Lashowz said:

credits have become useless and GTN is worthless now

I just want to point out that this is hyperbole, for anyone out there that might take this literally. 

If there's a tradable item you want in this game, you can get it for credits (directly or indirectly). It may be expensive, you may have to buy it in trades, you may have to do multiple transactions, you may have to use intermediate items but you can buy it with credits.

I mention this mainly because I don't think we're that far off from credits being literally worthless. While I don't agree with the proposed changes, I really appreciate bioware acknowledging there is an issue and trying to address it. I also appreciate the discussion here, where most people think the issue is both solvable and worth trying to solve. 

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Just now, microstyles said:

Hmm my impression of which items get sold in trades rather than the GTN may be different than yours. From what I've seen the majority of what people take to trades are things that sell over the GTN limit.

If you restrict trades on 4b value items, people aren't going to start selling them for 1b. They'll just circumvent the restrictions like they do now for 10b value items.

You’re still missing the point. The idea is to reduce inflation, not pander to people wanting to make massive amounts of credits outside of the GTN tax system.

People are obviously selling outside of the GTN now because of its 1 Billion credit limit. But that’s because BioWare didn’t do anything to curb inflation 3 years ago when we told them this would happen. 2 years ago, people would not have even considered selling something over 1 Billion credits. 

Bioware need to close that loop hole because each trade outside of the GTN is avoiding the 8% tax. 

This isn’t just a one step solution. It requires Them to limit CM trades to get people back to using the GTN system or inflation will just get much worse.

But I do recognise that the economy is now selling above the GTN 1 Billion limit. So at the same time as limiting players trading CM items outside of the GTN, Bioware also need to increase the sales cap above the current 1 Billion limit.

I’ve Actually suggested else where that BioWare could also add a wealth tax for items sold over 1 Billion credits. For every billion over 1 Billion, the GTN tax would increase 2% and be capped at 20%. This means they would set the new GTN sales cap at 7 Billion. 

This sort of setup would actually target those causing the inflation & put downwards pressure on it at the same time.


 

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Another idea- do half/half transactions that currently require cartel coins. This is something that's already done with the Cyan Sphere which (if I remember correctly) that's worth either 32 Gree Tokens or 16 Green Tokens and 16 Snow Packages. This requires Gree playing but has a way of still getting it with less currency through that secondary currency. Give people the option to buy certain things with cartel coins and credits or just cartel coins. Appearance customizations, for example- if a hairstyle change is 100 cartel coins normally, have a secondary option to have 50 cartel coins and 50 million credits. I think it's a good idea to have the amount in credits be high and over the 1 million credit free to play and preferred cap to encourage subbing and to adequately remove credits from players' hands. These amounts can change, of course- but having both will get credits out of the economy while still encouraging people to subscribe or buy cartel coins to use these things.

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22 hours ago, JackieKo said:

[...]

  • Reduce tax/credit cost avoidance
  • Reintroduce credit sinks as some were removed in the past
  • Adjust inflow in certain repeatable content
  • Use these changes as opportunities to improve the experience while also reducing credits
  • Monitor how these changes impact the economy over time and adjust accordingly if needed

With the 7.2.1 PTS opening soon, players will be able to see the following adjustments:

  • Quick Travel now has a credit cost associated, with a minimum cost of 100 credits and a maximum cost of 5000. The cost to travel is dependent on the distance traveled.
  • Priority Transport Terminal now costs the original planet travel costs to transfer between daily areas.
  • Travel to Strongholds now costs the original planet travel costs to transfer between planets.
  • Repair cost formulas have been adjusted across the entirety of the game so that repair costs increase in relation to item level.
  • Durability of equipment should now be lost at a LOWER rate on death, but a slightly HIGHER rate in normal gameplay. 

[...]

i think it is good to hear, that you would want to adress it. of course it is not easy to find a faster solution, especially because swtor runs in many countries with different laws. and nobody want's to see you get sued for stupid actions.

1.) i think one possibility could be to delete the guild perks, but bring 2 new ones, to increase durability in operations and flashpoints/uprisings and also story (mm chapters, eternal championship). these shouldn't count for the crit and alacrity set bonus.

maybe an active guild perk, too. increase durability for 1h.

2.) can u give us a list of them? don't know if i could get all of them. and i please you to get rid of the king pin token drops. this made the night life event very boring to me. if you give us some nices rewards, the most are willing to spend millions to it. actually one big problem is, that there is nearly nothing cool to buy from vendors. for example sell buffs items like the chaos boosts or valor boosts.

3.) i think it is totally fine to just get the rewards you get from drops, if you ran this content 3x and more. you still can grind spammer station for fp-1's, but won't get a quest reward. sounds fair to me. and i think the activity finder should get some adjustments, that you can't join groups who selected all flashpoints, by just selecting a few on your side. so you force the others to run this content, on and on. so even today, there are way to many spammer station runs. one reason why i won't use it anymore at all.

4.) i totally agree. so ppl see more and don't fear it. also it feels nice, if a new chievo pops up.

5.) it also would be nice, to get a monthly short feedback, what you learned from it. in the past monitoring meant: we really don't care, so please sh*t the f*ck *p. don't be afraid of you community. 

6./7.) sound fine

8.) even if it is not much, i wouldn't want that. 

9./10.) it really depends on the new formulas. to be honest i think, that repair costs are at a point to feel okayisch. if you are learning tactics, especially for not so experienced groups, this could be a big hit. even today if you die for 2h learning tactics, it costs 1mill.  so it really depends. but you should make playing group content more expensive. 

11*.) pls increase the credit cap in the gtn to 4b. set all taxes to 10% (easy to calculate) and above 1b to 20%. even a 20% loss is more comfortable than using the trading chat. 

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54 minutes ago, TrixxieTriss said:

You’re still missing the point. The idea is to reduce inflation, not pander to people wanting to make massive amounts of credits outside of the GTN tax system.

People are obviously selling outside of the GTN now because of its 1 Billion credit limit. But that’s because BioWare didn’t do anything to curb inflation 3 years ago when we told them this would happen. 2 years ago, people would not have even considered selling something over 1 Billion credits. 

Bioware need to close that loop hole because each trade outside of the GTN is avoiding the 8% tax. 

This isn’t just a one step solution. It requires Them to limit CM trades to get people back to using the GTN system or inflation will just get much worse.

But I do recognise that the economy is now selling above the GTN 1 Billion limit. So at the same time as limiting players trading CM items outside of the GTN, Bioware also need to increase the sales cap above the current 1 Billion limit.

I’ve Actually suggested else where that BioWare could also add a wealth tax for items sold over 1 Billion credits. For every billion over 1 Billion, the GTN tax would increase 2% and be capped at 20%. This means they would set the new GTN sales cap at 7 Billion. 

This sort of setup would actually target those causing the inflation & put downwards pressure on it at the same time.


 

Just by raising the GTN cap to 4B at the moment would attract some of the people selling gold augs and the items around 1-2B back to the GTN.

That would be the first step I want to see , not having people to pay 5k credits for QT or going to their SH.

Other more effective/advanced fixes like putting restriction to Trade/Mail and/or further raising the personal pocket credit cap above current 4.2B will have more technical issues, I get it, but I don't know why raising the GTN cap to 4B is that difficult as the major objective of a patch.

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12 hours ago, DWho said:

3: with the blocking of Cartel Market item trades, increase the GTN cap to 4 billion credits so they can be sold on the GTN.

...and subsequently make the gold sellers happy for players who don't have a lot of credits but can afford $3.80/million to make up the difference.

I don't like the idea of limiting the trading of CM items. Our guild uses them as door prizes at events.

Edited by xordevoreaux
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The current even running in-game is The Pirate Incursion, and I still see people paying the ransom for one of the heroics to get their achievement. The thing about it is, while an obvious credit sink, it worked, and still works. The problem is that half the game's population is sitting on billions of credits, so these changes feel like... pocket to change to veteran players, and likely worrying to newer problems. It feels like a weird tax. I agree with people who are saying there should be more desirable stuff in game to spend obnoxious amount of credits on. Like, IDK, Dwedtoof is a rare drop on Section X, so make it available for purchase for 1bil (which is how it's normally sold on the GTN anyway). Some of the things that require a grind rather than skill. Not HM/NiM stuff obviously, but some of the items that require pure hours sink. IDK, just throwing out ideas.

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13 minutes ago, eabevella said:

Just by raising the GTN cap to 4B at the moment would attract some of the people selling gold augs and the items around 1-2B back to the GTN.

That would be the first step I want to see , not having people to pay 5k credits for QT or going to their SH.

Other more effective/advanced fixes like putting restriction to Trade/Mail and/or further raising the personal pocket credit cap above current 4.2B will have more technical issues, I get it, but I don't know why raising the GTN cap to 4B is that difficult as the major objective of a patch.

It is not what the sellers want for those augments that matters. It simply needs to be impossible for them to sell them for more than 1 B credits, the present GTN limit, by having the player to player tax free sales options removed completely. First step; realize that just because some one wants x unrealistic amount of credits for y item, does not make y item that much worth. 

And removing the option for players to mail and trade with each other, is the only way to go. So raising the GTN limit is a no-go as all it would achieve, is that in 1-2 years the whalers cries; raise the GTN limit to 200 B... and that is actually the opposite of what needs to be done.

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Just now, lessandracassidy said:

I still see people paying the ransom for one of the heroics to get their achievement.

I'm confused, please explain the ransom. If this "ransom" is transferring money between players, that's not a credit sink. A credit sink makes money disappear from the game, not swapping money between players.

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10 minutes ago, xordevoreaux said:

...and subsequently make the gold sellers happy for players who don't have a lot of credits but can afford $3.80/million to make up the difference.

I don't like the idea of limiting the trading of CM items. Our guild uses them as door prizes at events.

Gold sellers are still a problem that needs to be dealt with (more specifically, the people who sell credits to them need to be dealt with), the GTN increase is only if trades of CM items outside the GTN is blocked (or severely limited). It shouldn't be implemented without that caveat.

If you are using them as door prizes, isn't the intent that who you give them to uses them. I don't see how limiting trading to one trade cripples that in any way.

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3 minutes ago, DWho said:

If you are using them as door prizes, isn't the intent that who you give them to uses them.

When you give a gift, it's never the giver's prerogative to dictate to the receiver how a gift is used. If the player who receives the door prize wants to then swap door prizes with someone else, under your suggestion, that couldn't happen because both CM items have exhausted their single trade.

It's also a matter of how our guild accumulates the CM items to do a trade in the first place as door prizes. Various people dump CM items into the guild bank, an officer transfers them from a member vault to an officer-only vault so we know we can keep them safe until the event, and then the items are handed out at the event.

Edited by xordevoreaux
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14 minutes ago, xordevoreaux said:

When you give a gift, it's never the giver's prerogative to dictate to the receiver how a gift is used. If the player who receives the door prize wants to then swap door prizes with someone else, under your suggestion, that couldn't happen because both CM items have exhausted their single trade.

It's also a matter of how our guild accumulates the CM items to do a trade in the first place as door prizes. Various people dump CM items into the guild bank, an officer transfers them from a member vault to an officer-only vault so we know we can keep them safe until the event, and then the items are handed out at the event.

How about just applying it to hypercrates then, sort of like what was done in GS? The hypercrate can be traded once but once opened, the items inside can be traded multiple times (though I would still like to see some kind of limit to keep them from being used to launder credits). That still lowers their value as a commodity while increasing the supply of the items "held" within. I'm not sure that is enough limitation, but trying that wouldn't cause you issues with your door prizes. CM items are the core of the inflationary issues due to their extremely limited supply and allowing people to buy up all of them on the market to horde them drives up the price.

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1 hour ago, TrixxieTriss said:

But I do recognise that the economy is now selling above the GTN 1 Billion limit. So at the same time as limiting players trading CM items outside of the GTN, Bioware also need to increase the sales cap above the current 1 Billion limit.

Ok then we're closer to on the same page. I feel that the convenience of the GTN would be enough to keep the majority of there, but I could be wrong about that.

1 hour ago, TrixxieTriss said:

I’ve Actually suggested else where that BioWare could also add a wealth tax for items sold over 1 Billion credits. For every billion over 1 Billion, the GTN tax would increase 2% and be capped at 20%. This means they would set the new GTN sales cap at 7 Billion. 

The numbers you give for a scaling tax are more reasonable than most, but I'm just not sure that's necessary since a % tax already scales with price. Something to keep in mind is that a scaling tax will discourage people from selling expensive items for credits (they can always trade for packs or whatever), which could have the opposite effect that you want.

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25 minutes ago, xordevoreaux said:

I'm confused, please explain the ransom. If this "ransom" is transferring money between players, that's not a credit sink. A credit sink makes money disappear from the game, not swapping money between players.

It's an alternate solution to the "Reactor Ransom" Heroic that's active during the Pirate Incursion on Dantooine. Instead of going through the entire Heroic and fighting the boss to free the hostages, you can just pay the boss the ransom of 15 million credits to auto-complete the quest. I have done this too many times to count, not for the achievement, but because it was faster this way to get enough event currency for certain decorations than actually running the event quests.

Edited by BenKatarn
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13 minutes ago, MortenJessen said:

It is not what the sellers want for those augments that matters. It simply needs to be impossible for them to sell them for more than 1 B credits, the present GTN limit, by having the player to player tax free sales options removed completely. First step; realize that just because some one wants x unrealistic amount of credits for y item, does not make y item that much worth. 

And removing the option for players to mail and trade with each other, is the only way to go. So raising the GTN limit is a no-go as all it would achieve, is that in 1-2 years the whalers cries; raise the GTN limit to 200 B... and that is actually the opposite of what needs to be done.

You can increase the GTN sales cap to 7 billion & actually decrease the prices on the GTN in the long term if BioWare also do the following.

1. Limit CM trades/sales outside of the GTN so people can’t circumvent the GTN tax.

2. Add a wealth tax to the current 8% GTN tax for items sold over 1 Billion credits. Starting at 2% for every Billion over 1 Billion & capping it at 20%

Of course at first there would likely be a price spike upwards. But with limited credits now being added to the game, eventually prices would start to fall because the majority of people wouldn’t have the credits to keep buying stuff over 1 Billion & sellers wouldn’t want to lose too many credits to the tax.

This one change would remove more credits from the game in one month than BioWares QT, SH travel & repair costs idea would remove on 2 years. 

1 Billion credits at 8% tax is 80 million 

2 Billion credits at 10% tax is 200 million

3 Billion credits at 12% tax is 360 million 

etc etc etc 

It would take 1 person QT (Quick traveling) 1600 times to take 80 million credits out of the game. Anyone wanna guess how many months/years that would take in normal game play? 

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3 minutes ago, TrixxieTriss said:

Limit CM trades/sales outside of the GTN so people can’t circumvent the GTN tax.

This was mentioned in earlier parts of this thread, and I vehemently disagree, because limited CM trades would absolutely kill my guild's ability to hand out CM items as door prizes at events. Our players are mostly rich and handing them 10 million credits is meh, but hand them a CM item they don't have yet, now they're happy.

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