Level Sync Update

[EllieAnne]

tl;dr version

Years ago we put in a system so that rather than making new content, the players could repeat the same content ad nauseum. That system has never worked right and is now more broken than ever. So now we put words in a post to make everything better. I am willing to redact that last sentence if something actually gets fixed.

 

How about you get rid of level-sync all together? Or at least rebuild it from the ground up into something simpler that doesn't punish people that work/pay for better gear (the hard caps). I mean, how hard could it be to program that on Korriban for example, your non-tertiary stats all are reduced to 8%. If you use a stim or a relic, your stats do increase, but only within that 8% level. On Hoth maybe it's 78% and Voss 84%. Point being players are still rewarded for better stats they earned but still within bounds set by the planet.

 

Or get rid of it completely.

[DarkMatterSlifus]

Nobody complained about this stuff until 7.0 came along. Bioware trying to constantly reinvent the wheel which does nothing but continue to damage your game.

[Sethenon]

Nobody complained about this stuff until 7.0 came along. Bioware trying to constantly reinvent the wheel which does nothing but continue to damage your game.

 

But but but, it's a square wheel!!! It's so much better!!!

[Peacemoon]

First of all, thank you for the post Chris, it was really informative and glad to hear a lot of the issues with companions are being looked at.

 

The problem with a heavy handed level sync is we are doing dailies, to get better gear, which won't make us stronger in 90% of the game?

 

A certain amount of level sync is good for the game, but if you reduce player power heavily, you remove the incentive to try become more powerful.

 

It would also be great if you added dailies to the game that needed challenged us even more, for better rewards.

[TheRealExozone]

Hi folks,

 

I wanted to chat about the history of Bolster, how it’s evolved over the years into what is now known as our new Level Sync system, and how we’ve been tuning and adjusting Level Sync based on your feedback. One note on terminology: I’m going to refer to Bolster as the pre-7.0 technology and Level Sync as the post-7.0 technology. We’ve used several terms interchangeably over the years, but for the purposes of this post I’m referring to the technology difference between the two.

 

In the 4.0 release, we introduced the concept of Bolster throughout the wider game. It was previously launched to specifically address PvP Warzone balance in order to help undergeared players, but the 4.0 release brought the feature to PvE content. When your character visited a planet they had completed the story on, we shifted the character level down to a range we expected players to be in for that planet. Bolster enabled the game to give better and more relevant rewards for high level players going back to older content. We could finally reward max level characters with useful items or currency, whereas previously they would receive rewards far below their actual level.

 

The reverse was also true: we could Bolster players upwards in order to give more content options to lower level players. This mostly occurred in PvP Warzones in order to keep the queues more active and provide a better Warzone experience for those players in the lower levels.

 

Unfortunately, this implementation of Bolster brought a host of problems with it. To peel back the curtain a bit, that system relied on applying an ability on the player, and that ability would dictate the level and stat scaling to apply to the player. All of this data was defined by hand in tables, with specific stats defined per planet or per difficulty level per piece of content. Not only was this difficult to maintain and update, but it introduced a host of bugs and undesirable problems that we worked hard over the years to address. Sometimes lower level mods would actually provide better stats in PvP, for example. Or the Bolster ability would fail to apply in Operations or Flashpoints leaving one or more players over leveled for the content, and introducing exploits that allowed players to reliably force the bug and easily complete content balanced for several levels below their own.

 

This implementation also limited the ideas we had for the future of repeatable content, so for 7.0 we invested in modernizing our Bolster system, and effectively removed it and replaced it with the current Level Sync system.

 

Level Sync works from a new codebase that is more predictable and less prone to exploitative behavior. Designers can effectively enter item rating ranges per planet/piece of content, and the NPCs in that content are using the same scaling and stat ranges, making the balance relationship more predictable. This was a large change, so it required lots of per-content testing and iteration. We made this change last fall and it went through several PTS iterations. We were able to address lots of balance feedback back then and continue to do so to this day across the game in order to get the system feeling better with each iteration.

 

With this new system came a few side effects that removed some of the quirks of the older Bolster system. One oddity we solved was the way primary stats were scaled in the old Bolster system, especially when leveled down. They were far from accurate, and the system merely capped stats, so everyone over the defined thresholds had identical stats. With the Level Sync system, primary stats are actually scaled downwards according to how much of each stat characters have equipped. So if you have a high Mastery build, you should see more Mastery than another player who is running a high Endurance build in the same scaled content.

 

One side effect of the new system is all stats are scaled down when Level Synced. Under the Bolster system, tertiary stats such as Accuracy, Critical Rating, and Alacrity were never scaled. This had both advantages and disadvantages to how players would experience content. The plus side is Accuracy and Alacrity thresholds that players had taken care to optimize would be maintained when playing lower level content. But stats like Crit not scaling made older content more trivial than intended, which set the wrong expectation for game balance when facing other players in other modes such as PvP, or NPCs in Operations, and Master Mode Flashpoints.

We intend to update the new system to maintain Accuracy and Alacrity thresholds when scaled up or down in a future update. This would be very similar to how the old system worked for Accuracy and Alacrity specifically.

 

Another side effect involves Relics. These typically provide extra stats when they are activated or trigger on their own. As all stats now scale in Level Synced content, there currently isn’t a method to scale the extra stats provided by Relics, so they currently provide no stat bonuses when activated or triggered while Level Synced. We’ve been working on resolving this problem and intend to address it in a future update.

 

There is similar behavior with Augments and Color Crystals. We identified some issues both internally and thanks to your feedback on the PTS servers where it was possible to manipulate Augments and Color Crystals to provide huge stat bonuses outside of the bounds of the system. We have identified the root cause of these bugs, and have been working on solutions to both, to be introduced in future updates.

 

Finally, we’ve had a couple of issues prevalent in PvP modes that we’ve identified and fixed incrementally over several updates.

 

PvP Warzones and Arenas in 7.0 introduced a valid item rating range in level 80 matches. The Level Sync system was intended to allow players with gear from 318 through 326 to compete and upgrade their gear, while synching down players with higher gear (such as 330 gear) to the ceiling of 326. The system was also intended to reduce the stats and effectiveness for equipped gear below the 318 minimum threshold, such as 306 gear.

 

Once 7.0 launched, players noticed they were not less effective wearing 306 gear in level 80 Warzones and Arenas, and in fact in some cases their equipped stats were the same or better than 326 gear. We found the root cause of this bug and resolved this odd behavior in the 7.0.1 patch.

 

We have also determined the root cause of a bug that was causing item ratings in Level Synced content to be inaccurately computed. This didn’t result in major stat changes, but was the cause of some stats appearing to be worse after the 7.0.1 update in content that was Level Synced, and also that players with better than 326 gear in Warzones and Arenas had a slight stat advantage. We have a fix to this bug coming in the 7.0.2 update.

 

One last thing I wanted to address is companions, and their effectiveness in combat. The root cause for companions suddenly becoming worse tanks or not drawing aggro or dealing damage as expected was a bug in how their base stats were applied when loading into a planet or area. This caused some of their stats to be missing or inaccurate, which made things like their taunt ability or area of effect damage abilities miss their target NPC every time. The fix for the companion issue is also coming in the 7.0.2 update.

 

An additional note on companions and their effectiveness: the Presence base stat does scale in Level Synced content to reflect the amount of base Presence a player would expect to have in that level range. This would apply to Presence earned through character level-up and from equipment. However, the system does not scale any bonus Presence earned from raising the influence levels of companions, so companions with high influence levels will always be more effective across all content where companions can be used.

 

All of the fixes described above for the 7.0.2 update can be currently seen on the PTS, and we continue to keep an eye on your reports and experiences both in the live game and the PTS server. We made over 100 balance tweaks and adjustments to existing content thanks to your feedback in the 7.0 PTS cycles, and continue to address any areas as they are reported by players, our internal testing, and our own playthroughs of the game.

 

Hopefully this post sheds a bit of light on some of the issues and resolutions with Level Sync in the game. We’re still very excited about the content possibilities unlocked by modernizing this huge and fundamental system of the game.

 

Thanks!

-Chris

 

Any update on class balance? DPS between classes varies wildly with Arensal mercenaries being rock bottom to the point where they get excluded from ops and even master flashpoints and fury marauders being faaaar above all others.

[Exly]

Any update on class balance? DPS between classes varies wildly with Arensal mercenaries being rock bottom to the point where they get excluded from ops and even master flashpoints and fury marauders being faaaar above all others.

 

Mercs got nerfed to satisfy pvp complainers a long time ago. I wouldn't expect them to ever be useful in pve again given the way that the dev team has chosen to mistreat them.

[Desplain]

 

 

 

PvP Warzones and Arenas in 7.0 introduced a valid item rating range in level 80 matches. The Level Sync system was intended to allow players with gear from 318 through 326 to compete and upgrade their gear, while synching down players with higher gear (such as 330 gear) to the ceiling of 326. The system was also intended to reduce the stats and effectiveness for equipped gear below the 318 minimum threshold, such as 306 gear.

 

Once 7.0 launched, players noticed they were not less effective wearing 306 gear in level 80 Warzones and Arenas, and in fact in some cases their equipped stats were the same or better than 326 gear. We found the root cause of this bug and resolved this odd behavior in the 7.0.1 patch.

 

Even this will not force me to wear your crappy non-moddable gear, all new gear goes into the bin period!

[Crystal_Mind]

Hi folks, /snip

 

It's always interesting to see these "behind the scenes"/"after action" reports, so thank you for taking the time to write all that out.

 

Most of the new bolster system I don't have a problem with. It's glitchy in some places, yes, but the root idea of it is fine, in my opinion. That said, I do have one complaint that is not addressed in your post:

 

Why, oh why do you insist on applying Warzone Bolster/caps to the Rishi Stronghold??? Even on PTS I have to deal with the stat-capping. This is the only stronghold where my stats are not my stats. If I'm double-checking that I grabbed the right gear out of cargo, I have to relocate to be sure.

 

My guild uses a Rishi stronghold. Last expansion we'd meet up there to talk gear, use the training room and yes, do some PvP here and there. This expansion we go there and whoops I guess all PvE usefulness has been stripped.

 

It's not cool. And there isn't a good alternative to Rishi for guilds looking to run workshops, etc. You can bring people to your ship, but you're limited to a group of (4) and the process is a bit convoluted. Alderaan has dummies, but it doesn't have a droid to sell modules.

 

I understand that Rishi has a bit of a "PvP stronghold" theme, but that's not all it is. There's no reason why it needs the same caps and restrictions as a warzone. Please reconsider this.

[Muckbeast]

Honestly, the massive amounts of history of bolster/level sync is kinda meaningless. I wish you had spent that time talking about how you will fix companions as well as our accuracy/alacrity/crit.

 

It makes sense for raw stats to scale down, but the net final effect should not make you weaker in accuracy, alacrity, or crit% just as your companions shouldn't become worse at doing their jobs when scaled/synced down.

 

Screenshots and google doc spreadsheet link have all the data. It's bad. Really bad. See below.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/13oCgzAJh3-Zhf41btLkEsjIQ0mLkww_B2D3-xJnWaZU/edit#gid=0

 

Right now, alacrity and crit get absolutely gutted making it impossible to maintain consistent gameplay feel via your cooldowns/crits. At some level ranges, even your accuracy is gutted.

 

EXAMPLE #1 - Level 75 Character:

 

Stronghold:

Acc: 110.62%

Crit: 45.89%

Alac: 7.56%

 

Stats in Taris (scaled down):

Acc: 103.7% Lose 6.92%

Crit: 24.2% Lose 21.69% <=== ?!?!?!?! BRUTAL!

Alac: 1.38% Lose 6.18% <=== rip GCDs

 

https://imgur.com/2VsRVXT.jpg

 

EXAMPLE #2 - Level 80 Character:

 

This link at the top of the post has data on two different level 80 builds in Stronghold and scaled/synced to CZ-198 (56), Voss (48), Belsavis (45), Nar Shadda (25), Balmorra (21). For example:

 

Stronghold:

Acc: 110.00%

Crit: 36.59%

Alac: 7.42%

 

Belsavis (45):

Acc: 113.00% +3.00% (pointless)

Crit: 27.93% -8.66%

Alac: 3.28% -4.14%

 

What is the point of playing, gaining levels, getting gear, planning builds, etc. if it all gets ruined the second you go do content in 99% of the game? You cannot even plan around it because it is inconsistent depending on where you go and it guts your stats so hard it is impossible to counter it.

 

Progression is destroyed by this. The fun of leveling and gearing are ruined by this.

 

This is really, really bad.

[DragonSire]

lol A huge write up that says simply...our system are broken because we have had to rework it numerous times to try and make up for the lack of content and reward players playing old content with new rewards while still providing a challenge.

 

ROFL

 

It is not about retention, they would rather attract new players every year. Except for maybe the PVP players, cause they just keep playing each other and not the content. GSF, PVP is cheap. Galactic Seasons is just another carrot to recycle old stuff and push more players to try PVP. Don't be fooled. As a story based MMO this game has been on life support for years.

[meddani]

kinda funny seeing communications from the devs here, almost like they're trying to save face.

even funnier some poor naive fools prasing them a couple of pages earlier lmao.

[Exly]

I do think that the communication here is a good thing. My problem is with the fact that they waited so long to do it, and they didn't fix these issues before going live with the "expansion".

 

If they learn their lesson and do a better job of addressing issues like these before advancing "fixes" to the live servers, then, it would be a lot easier to praise them. In the meantime, the lack of communication, the deaf ear that they show to players who provide feedback, and their willingness to put out substandard product will continue to make me think that they deserve to be called out and admonished for their lackluster performance.

[RBtry]

I've wasted too much energy today to even attempt being angry with you, specifically this goes out to whomever simply thought it was a good idea to create this system the way it is currently as opposed to the functional and overal understandable ecosystem of 6.0. you've burned me out and drained me of my goodwill. insulted my time and ignored my every word.

 

You've lost another player today. i know you couldn't give a jawa's backside about that but i won't be the first and not the last. your Legendary implants and their supposed benefits suck. your ten versions of idiotic named currency that require player retention and participation like a rat in a cage experiment, suck. your mobile esque scheme of making players excited with CGI cutscenes and delivering on nothing barring 2 hours of buggy content to play suck. your new console port UI sucks. your scaling of player to pve content damage balance sucks. companions badly scale or cope with the enviroment's level structure. healing is slow and unresponsive, tanking is slow and messy. damage is either too high or not enough to meet an encounter without the AI gunning you down before you can respond. the same is true for the player character, scaling has made all need or desire for gear irrelevant as i cannot and AM NOT allowed to use relics (ACCESS DENIED) or the full extent of my statistics on gear unless appropriate for the zone i am in....so what's the point to chasing those higher statistics other then temporary dopamine? remember when companions could be made better through the stat of presence? can't have that now with the augments removed for that. and i could go on.

 

i had 12 days left. i won't bother with them anymore. you've sucked the life out of it all for me. bravo.

[tsteenburg]

My biggest issue with the level sync as it stands now is that level synched content is either harder or far more grindy than endgame level 80 content. I can almost face roll solo through a vet fp on a fully geared toon, but doing level synched content on that same toon is a nightmare. This is most noticeable when doing the story mode fps versus the vets. Yes there were some issues with the old bolster, e.g. killing the warrior and inquisitor final story bosses back on Korriban in under ten seconds. It's a major issue when for level 70 content with 306 under 6.x you'd have over 130k of health, but now with augmented 327 gear rating, you're under 110k in the same area.

 

I have 3 suggestions that could find a balance. Of course, whether any are feasible with the current state of the code is a big question.

 

The simplest approach is to scrub level synch entirely and let people play as they are. This would help your goal in slowing leveling. Keep XP for mission completion, but obviously, nothing from defeating enemies. However, for everything before Ziost, that is a minimal issue as most of the enemies don't give much experience outside of the bonus areas for original planets and the final areas for the others. Perhaps make all world bosses level 80 to avoid exploitation. When the level synch was broken on Maelstrom SM under 6.x, it was incredibly fun to just tear through it.

 

The next approach is a little harder but likely doable. Basically keep common areas level-synched or even non synch, but then phased areas and spawned enemies match current level. This is akin to how it worked with KOTFE (can't speak to current since haven't done it under current patch). If you were level 60, your enemies were level 60. If you were level 70, you saw level 70 enemies. This is also similar to Rakghoul tunnels where the enemies spawn that match your level.

 

The final approach is the best but likely the hardest from a technical standpoint if your code isn't set the correct way currently. If you are under max level, you experience a level-synched instance of the planet. At max level, you face level 80 enemies.

 

The reality is with the demise of CXP and RXP, having enemies that "count" doesn't matter for max level players. And with the 100k conquest goal, the cq points for killing a single enemy are barely worth it. Let us enjoy the gear we've earned and cause massive damage with it.

Edited April 4, 2022 by tsteenburg
typo

[DzastinBiberi]

It's funny how the bolster works.

In PVP warzones I lose stats, like 800 power etc, while in Master FP my stats are boosted to the point where I have over 10k power as a skank tank and like 16k mastery or around that.

 

My biggest compaint is not working augments and auto nerfed stats in warzones.

[Muckbeast]

Honestly, the massive amounts of history of bolster/level sync is kinda meaningless. I wish you had spent that time talking about how you will fix companions as well as our accuracy/alacrity/crit.

 

It makes sense for raw stats to scale down, but the net final effect should not make you weaker in accuracy, alacrity, or crit% just as your companions shouldn't become worse at doing their jobs when scaled/synced down.

 

Screenshots and google doc spreadsheet link have all the data. It's bad. Really bad. See below.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/13oCgzAJh3-Zhf41btLkEsjIQ0mLkww_B2D3-xJnWaZU/edit#gid=0

 

Right now, alacrity and crit get absolutely gutted making it impossible to maintain consistent gameplay feel via your cooldowns/crits. At some level ranges, even your accuracy is gutted.

 

EXAMPLE #1 - Level 75 Character:

 

Stronghold:

Acc: 110.62%

Crit: 45.89%

Alac: 7.56%

 

Stats in Taris (scaled down):

Acc: 103.7% Lose 6.92%

Crit: 24.2% Lose 21.69% <=== ?!?!?!?! BRUTAL!

Alac: 1.38% Lose 6.18% <=== rip GCDs

 

https://imgur.com/2VsRVXT.jpg

 

EXAMPLE #2 - Level 80 Character:

 

This link at the top of the post has data on two different level 80 builds in Stronghold and scaled/synced to CZ-198 (56), Voss (48), Belsavis (45), Nar Shadda (25), Balmorra (21). For example:

 

Stronghold:

Acc: 110.00%

Crit: 36.59%

Alac: 7.42%

 

Belsavis (45):

Acc: 113.00% +3.00% (pointless)

Crit: 27.93% -8.66%

Alac: 3.28% -4.14%

 

What is the point of playing, gaining levels, getting gear, planning builds, etc. if it all gets ruined the second you go do content in 99% of the game? You cannot even plan around it because it is inconsistent depending on where you go and it guts your stats so hard it is impossible to counter it.

 

Progression is destroyed by this. The fun of leveling and gearing are ruined by this.

 

This is really, really bad.

 

Has anyone tested the level sync on PTR to know if any of this is improved/fixed?

[The-Kaitou-Kid]

Has anyone tested the level sync on PTR to know if any of this is improved/fixed?

 

I tested Yavin IV and Ziost and didn't notice a difference, either in my stats or my perceived power vs an enemy. Others were noticing a difference, so it seems like other planets were maybe improved, but Bioware didn't tell us which planets they actually changed so I'm not gonna play whack a mole for them.

Edited May 4, 2022 by The-Kaitou-Kid

[Amelasamurai]

Well I don't know about that, but I've notice my bad dps and endurance.

It was all bearable, until I hit Blood Hunt FP, that I noticed something was wrong, but my thoughts were: badly balance FP, like most of them ( for Solo, mind you ), but than I hit KOTFE, and my real dps was like 100k, ( I was lvl 80 ) and with level sync, it was cut to almost half, ***? I played Jugg Imm, so I know their dps was avarage at best, but damn I couldn't even tank properly cause I got decimated in like 3 minutes with Gear 290.

Side note: I'm green, really green, been playing for like a month, but before creating the char I "smoked" some guides, specialy from Vulkk one, didn't help. So I branded that char a failure and started Jedi Sage ( Telekinetics), will see how that gonna turn out. But I strongly inclined to only play 8 class stories and drop the game. Cause I get it, this is mmo, but if you're doing a solo content too, than make it atleast barable.

I know, that there are some vets who will call me noob, but come one, that sync system is stupid at best, and plaine unbearable at worst.

Edited April 6, 2022 by Amelasamurai

[forcedpolitics]

You wouldn't need level sync at all if you released regular content tho

[ChrisSchmidt]

Hi folks, I just wanted to take a moment and clarify Bonus Presence as I saw several questions around that.

 

Stats earned from datacrons are never modified in the Level Sync system, including Presence. Presence earned from any Legacy unlocks or a companion's influence level are also never modified. These all count as Bonus Presence, and can be observed as never scaling in the live game. To check this out, you can open the Character Sheet, click the Details button, and mouse over the Presence stat. You can notice Bonus Presence will remain unchanged in all areas, Level Synced or not.

 

Hope this adds some clarification!

 

-Chris

[ronin_chi_lao]

Then that would mean the amplifiers did not work prior to 7.0 with a leveled 50 companion out including all datacrons unlocked etc my character sheet showed the same 40xx presence I have now. Am I missing something? Or maybe some of the amplifiers didn't work as intended? Either way I'm fine with it right now since the Stat worked for me.

[Beyrahl]

Hi folks, I just wanted to take a moment and clarify Bonus Presence as I saw several questions around that.

 

Stats earned from datacrons are never modified in the Level Sync system, including Presence. Presence earned from any Legacy unlocks or a companion's influence level are also never modified. These all count as Bonus Presence, and can be observed as never scaling in the live game. To check this out, you can open the Character Sheet, click the Details button, and mouse over the Presence stat. You can notice Bonus Presence will remain unchanged in all areas, Level Synced or not.

 

Hope this adds some clarification!

 

-Chris

 

Could we also get a public acknowledgment of how Augments & Crystals do not work in PvP? Maybe an ETA on a fix? While it may not seem as dire as the level sync issue, we're on average missing over 6000 stats overall. Roughly 25k health, 1700-1902 secondary stat points, and bare min 2000 power. 300 Item level augments cost quite a lot and have been useless in PvP for the past month. The few reasons people even justified gold augments were for NiM and ranked. Only one of those modes is seeing those benefits. Please, I beg of thee. Acknowledge the situation publically. It's completely killing my motivation to do a lot of things because I know - no matter how good I do right now in PvP, it will always be better after they're working again. This is happening to everyone in PvP, it's not exclusive.

[Lyriel]

Hi folks, I just wanted to take a moment and clarify Bonus Presence as I saw several questions around that.

 

Stats earned from datacrons are never modified in the Level Sync system, including Presence. Presence earned from any Legacy unlocks or a companion's influence level are also never modified. These all count as Bonus Presence, and can be observed as never scaling in the live game. To check this out, you can open the Character Sheet, click the Details button, and mouse over the Presence stat. You can notice Bonus Presence will remain unchanged in all areas, Level Synced or not.

 

Hope this adds some clarification!

 

-Chris

 

Then how are companions with higher influence levels consistently not performing better than those with low/no influence in level synced content?

[SteveTheCynic]

Then how are companions with higher influence levels consistently not performing better than those with low/no influence in level synced content?

Because the companions are bugged in some way, perhaps, but also because the cap can be lower than (or not much bigger than) the total of base plus bonus, so the "based-on-Influence" part of your total Presence is totally or mostly lost.

[Lyriel]

Because the companions are bugged in some way, perhaps, but also because the cap can be lower than (or not much bigger than) the total of base plus bonus, so the "based-on-Influence" part of your total Presence is totally or mostly lost.

 

Except that in his initial post, he explicitly claims otherwise:

 

An additional note on companions and their effectiveness: the Presence base stat does scale in Level Synced content to reflect the amount of base Presence a player would expect to have in that level range. This would apply to Presence earned through character level-up and from equipment. However, the system does not scale any bonus Presence earned from raising the influence levels of companions, so companions with high influence levels will always be more effective across all content where companions can be used.

 

And I asked this same exact question then, too. The way his post is phrased, it looks like they think it's working as intended... and it most definitely is not (assuming they in fact do intend high influence companions to be more effective across all content where companions can be used).

Edited April 7, 2022 by Lyriel