The mood about this xpac should be causing you (BW) to reevaluate the whole thing

[LeMage]

I have seen the negative posts, yes. I also know the majority of people making any posts here, let alone posts about 7.0 is a fraction of a fraction of a minority. I have played for a very very long time, since 4.0.

 

Why not, *gasp*, wait and see? Try it and see how it is, then come here making a post when you are actually 100% informed on all the new changes, systems and content. I know its a crazy idea and brilliant! I mean, no one has thought of this before in the history of the game. IKR?

 

So lets try this different approach and wait and actually play the actual xpac and then come here to "review it" in the form of 1 of 1000 posts saying the exact same thing.

 

Lets do it!

 

I to have played from a very long time (closed beta) and I have been on the PTS for this mess whats 7.0. Maybe the folks that are trialling on the PTS are a subset of a subset of the players, but there isn't a whole lot that I have experienced on the PTS that I've liked. And we NEED those 1000 post imho otherwise the ONE post you are advocating will be disregarded easier than the 1000. We are not whinging for the sake of it. We trialled 7.0 on the PTS as we were encouraged. BW didn't want us to wait and see, they wanting it trialled, although I'm not sure they expected it to be so reviled. The "complaints" are observations made by players from experienced or long time players to newer folks with maybe less experience. We are not parroting others, we are just not liking the same stuff others are seeing and not liking.

 

I want this game to survive and thrive, 7.0 might not kill the game but it sure might broaden peoples horizons when they try other games because SWTOR has become unfun.

 

There were two games that I played that had the combat system revamped hard core.

For the Matrix on Line it was CR2 (Combat Revision 2 - there was no 1)

For Star Wars Galaxies it was NGE

Both were done by SOE (spit) sure there were folks who liked the changes but I believe they were a minority.

When a game is planned and is based upon a certain combat system, when you change it too much everything starts to unmesh.

If they wanted to do a hard core revamp on something I suggest they should have done something with crafting.

Edited January 17, 2022 by LeMage

[MadDutchman]

This studio doesn't usually acknowledge much of anything, it's been a chronic problem of theirs (though of late, it's been holiday and right now, it's the weekend). As for hyperbole, how anyone still has the gall left to look at the rate of content release and the number of servers left and say that it's hyperbole to be concerned the playerbase can't take another major hit is beyond me. How anyone still has the gall left to talk down to people for saying it's dead/dying or anything like that, when it so obviously is in bad shape, barely getting updates, bugs that have been left unaddressed for years, a relatively small expansion delayed to celebrate the 10 year anniversary, etc. And it's not just about raw numbers to find anyone else to play with, it's about EA BW and its investors and how justified they feel continuing to fund development; they are the real customers, not us.

 

Simply put, I've been hearing the same "gall" for the last 10 years.

 

We all would like more content, that much I agree with, but to say the mood is different strikes me as rather odd. The sky didn't fall and the wolf never showed up for all the previous times the game was supposed to die.

[Rolodome]

Simply put, I've been hearing the same "gall" for the last 10 years.

 

We all would like more content, that much I agree with, but to say the mood is different strikes me as rather odd. The sky didn't fall and the wolf never showed up for all the previous times the game was supposed to die.

It did show up though... just not as extreme as some people made it out to be. The doomsayers have consistently been correct with this game, they just oversell the degree of doom sometimes. The proof is in the number of servers left, the size and frequency of content, etc. Idk how you can look at how this game has shrunk in size and scope and tell me this is all "boy who cried wolf."

[TrixxieTriss]

BW's mitigation for gearing was and has always been horrible during the 6.0 gearing system. That has never really changed. People just eventually excepted it for what it was. If BW really meant to mitigate the RNG, they never would have put in 20 variations of every Armoring, Mod, and enhancement.

 

And yet, a bunch of people still left and didn’t come back after the changes in 6.0. This is what we are talking about. We know a bunch of die hards will stay regardless, but how many will leave AGAIN? Can the game really afford to lose a bunch of players again?

 

Some of us die hards have had enough of BioWares continuing saga to ruin the game we love. Eventually we all reach our limit of what we will accept. We won’t all reach it at the same time. Sadly, I’ve reached mine after 9 years of continuous subs and I’m sure I won’t be alone.

 

The problem for the game and it’s continuation, is how many of us have reached that point and will it be enough that it severely hampers future production or even keep EA investors happy to keep the game live.

Edited January 17, 2022 by TrixxieTriss

[JCDenton]

Why not, *gasp*, wait and see?

 

Even better, why not *gasp*, play and see? These changes that everyone are discussing aren't theoretical, they're playable, right now. Were you unaware that the PTS exists, or were you just unaware of its purpose?

[Gibonski]

We need more voices like that. We need to show that we care about this game and that the circle of mutual praising needs to stop. Oh how many dev interview goes like this: we have come with this idea, presented it to the team and everybody loved it. Well I am sure that not releasing modable gear was the same. If you would spoke up it would look like that meme when the guy is thrown out of the window by an angry boss.

 

But you can't throw away the players. We don't work for you, you exist because of us, and it's our opinion that you should value the most. So hear the voice of reason. Put in modable gear right of the bat, admit you were wrong and there will be tons of voices that would be grateful. Myself I sure will be one of them.

 

Stop the narcissistic approach that everything you do is great and we should eat it up, no matter how dumb it looks and plays. You said removing rng, but we just get more and more of it. With some gear dropping twice or 3 times a day with no visible upgrades as you progess.

 

Listen to your community as it's saying the truth. Another xpac and another failure if you not implement these changes. People will unsubscribe and won't come back until 7.1.

 

May the force will be with you all and reason come back to the devs.

 

Peace

Edited January 17, 2022 by Gibonski

[Florrentius]

Imagine if bioware comes up with this idea of armorings, mods and enchanments only available from crafting...

people selling them for hundreds of millions a piece in our current state of economy....

Pure torture to gear up...

Edited January 17, 2022 by Florrentius

[TrixxieTriss]

Imagine if bioware comes up with this idea of armorings, mods and enchanments only available from crafting...

people selling them for hundreds of millions a piece in our current state of economy....

Pure torture to gear up...

 

Please don’t give them more bad gear ideas and ammunition to accelerate inflation more. They come up with enough of their own dumb ideas, we don’t need to help them with those

[Savej]

Again I must point out that there was the same sort of 'forum' hysteria before 6.0 came out, but that turned out to be a big nothing-burger. I suspect 7.0 will be too. 🙂

 

And that's a lie. There were some threads, sure, but the very broad discontent with upcoming changes was nowhere near what we're seeing now. Compared to every other expac this game has gotten this is new. Whether it's on these forums, on youtube, on reddit, general chat on fleet or discord, very few people are excited for 2/15.

[Thepyrethatburns]

Why not, *gasp*, wait and see?

 

*Gasp* That's a great idea! Let's wait until the changes that are already publicly seen (and hated) on the PTS are cemented into the game and can't/won't be walked back.

 

Hell, I'll do you one better. Let's wait until we have another player exodus along with another shrinking of the servers to see if EA says "Yeah, it's not worth renewing the license in 2023 to keep this game going."

 

BRILLIANT!!!

[Tausos]

*Gasp* That's a great idea! Let's wait until the changes that are already publicly seen (and hated) by a fraction of a minority on the message boards on the PTS are cemented into the game and can't/won't be walked back.

 

Hell, I'll do you one better. Let's wait until we have another player exodus along with another shrinking of the servers to see if EA says "Yeah, it's not worth renewing the license in 2023 to keep this game going."

 

BRILLIANT!!!

 

Fixed it for you.....

[juliushorst]

Fixed it for you.....

 

Yes, a fraction. Fraction that cares enough to comment. The rest will simply leave after seeing crippled classes, new conquest and new gearing.

[JediQuaker]

Yes, a fraction. Fraction that cares enough to comment. The rest will simply leave after seeing crippled classes, new conquest and new gearing.

Are you aware of just how often we've heard that same old tired stuff? Especially at the release of 6.0. 6.0 was supposed to be the death knell and mass exodus, but the servers are even more active now than they were then.

 

So yeah, *gasp*, let's wait and see. 😍

[juliushorst]

Are you aware of just how often we've heard that same old tired stuff? Especially at the release of 6.0. 6.0 was supposed to be the death knell and mass exodus, but the servers are even more active now than they were then.

 

So yeah, *gasp*, let's wait and see. 😍

 

Waiting and seeing is the plan But I will be surprised if we won't see another 5.0 situation when it goes live.

[Savej]

Would anyone say swtor is doing great right now with subs and server populations? Even with the addition of steam and the steady collapse of Wow's playerbase which flooded other games, all BW can afford to give us is tiny expacs and tiny content drips - your idea of massive success? Look at their marketing budget for 7.0, doesn't look healthy to me. Even with the youtubers sponsored and a few forum posters very likely paid for (if they aren't already BW staff), it hasn't exactly been marketed.

 

Everything 6.0 did that people complained about pre launch is currently being thrown out so BW must agree with the complaints - if they'd listened two and a half years ago maybe they wouldn't have to do that, right? If they'd listened pre 5.0 maybe they wouldn't have had to throw that out or spend most of 6.0's budget rewriting their gearing? If they'd listened pre 4.0 maybe we wouldn't have as many cut scenes but maybe we wouldn't have lost so many of the mmo grinders 7.0 is targeting now?

 

The number of people saying 7.0 is going to kill swtor is small. The number of people saying 6.0, 5.0, 4.0 would kill the game is small. But the number of people complaining, not just on these forums, and saying they won't play 7.0 is very large. Much more than the list of people complaining about 4-6. Expacs similar to what BW is doing in 7.0 have not gone over well in other games.

 

Some of the people attacking the complainers just started posting a few days or a few months ago. Most of those complaining have years of history with the game and not all of them have spent that time saying the game is about to die.

Edited January 18, 2022 by Savej

[TrixxieTriss]

Are you aware of just how often we've heard that same old tired stuff? Especially at the release of 6.0. 6.0 was supposed to be the death knell and mass exodus, but the servers are even more active now than they were then.

 

So yeah, *gasp*, let's wait and see. 😍

 

That is just simply false and misinformation. There are way less people playing now than when 6.0 was launched.

[JediQuaker]

That is just simply false and misinformation. There are way less people playing now than when 6.0 was launched.

 

Citation needed. 🙂

[Kendaric]

Citation needed. 🙂

 

You didn't provide one either...

[JediQuaker]

Citation needed. 🙂

https://mmo-population.com/r/swtor

Make of it what you will, but it's difficult to get an idea of the population at the time of 6.0

 

Note that there's around 180K players per day. The 10-20 people posting on here (about 7.0 doomsday) are indeed just a small percentage of the playerbase.

So if every one of the people complaining were to quit, there'd still be ~180K per day. 😏

Edited January 18, 2022 by JediQuaker

[Setta]

Yes, a fraction. Fraction that cares enough to comment. The rest will simply leave after seeing crippled classes, new conquest and new gearing.

 

Not just comment, but actually download the pts, play it, check for bugs, and respond on other issues with feedback. Yea screw us all we're just a small minority. Not like the millions of loyal followers who play this game, oh wait...

 

https://mmo-population.com/r/swtor

Make of it what you will, but it's difficult to get an idea of the population at the time of 6.0

 

Less than 200k players per month, down to 5 servers. Yea no problem, keep the crap coming, this game is doing great.

Edited January 18, 2022 by Setta

[Setta]

double posted by accident so /deleted. Edited January 18, 2022 by Setta

[JediQuaker]

Less than 200k players per month, down to 5 servers. Yea no problem, keep the crap coming, this game is doing great.

That's 200K per DAY, not per month. But keep the pessimism going if it floats your speeder. 🙄

 

Even better:

https://mmo-population.com/r/swtor/stats

Edited January 18, 2022 by JediQuaker

[Severith]

Are you aware of just how often we've heard that same old tired stuff? Especially at the release of 6.0. 6.0 was supposed to be the death knell and mass exodus, but the servers are even more active now than they were then.

 

So yeah, *gasp*, let's wait and see. 😍

 

They're right, every single time.

 

That's because, every single expansion has Bioware burning down whatever systems they finally had fixed and introduce new broken systems to replace them, which take a whole nother year to fix again.

 

It happens with gearing, it happens with class balance, it happens with everything, and it happens EVERY. SINGLE. TIME. Other MMOs have actual expansions, which when bought, pay for much more timely changes and fixes. Bioware has to "wait for an coder" from another failed project to drive down to Austin. These "expansions" are not well funded enough to keep reinventing the wheel every 2 years, but they try anyway, and it's a huge mess.

 

Enjoy a 2 month bump in population, followed by 8+ months of people leaving, followed by a slow buildup of newer players trickling in "because Star Wars", and finally a return of some older players coming back after they waited for enough of SWTOR to get fixed to be playable again.

 

Bioware is happy with this modus operandi, because new players without credits means cartel coin purchases, but this system doesn't serve a loyal playerbase in the slightest.

 

Bioware needs to stop with these "expansions". Just throw story chapters at us, and some new flashpoints and raids once in awhile, and keep a closer eye on class balance and engine performance issues. Everything else is a waste of time and money, and Bioware Austin seems to have neither of those things.

[Pricia]

They're right, every single time.

 

That's because, every single expansion has Bioware burning down whatever systems they finally had fixed and introduce new broken systems to replace them, which take a whole nother year to fix again.

 

 

This is true though. There's really no reason to. How can a game hope to keep a steady player base when the game's systems change every 2 years?

 

You know what's the problem with that too? When people quit over a gameplay choice that they don't like, it's more likely than not that they won't come back. Heck I totally crossed the game off after release, I never even considered coming back until someone told me that it was very solo friendly and you could basically get the best gear on your own. So I gave it a shot.

 

And now 2 years later they are changing that. Again.

 

Skills and ability changes have happened in most games but I've NEVER seen a game completely change their gearing system every expansion.

Edited January 18, 2022 by Pricia

[Savej]

https://mmo-population.com/r/swtor

Make of it what you will, but it's difficult to get an idea of the population at the time of 6.0

 

Note that there's around 180K players per day. The 10-20 people posting on here (about 7.0 doomsday) are indeed just a small percentage of the playerbase.

 

That site isn't relevant unless you think swtor has 10.4m "players or subscribers" in which case it is relevant to show that you're nuts. I'd be very surprised if their 200k active player number has to do with anything also.

 

Steam has charts since the game started on that service. The user number has gone down since last Jan/Feb - you would think it would have gone up in anticipation of the next patch. The Nov/Dec 2020 vs Nov/Dec 2021 is also down.

 

From my perspective both the Star Forge and Satele Shan servers are less active than they were two years or four years ago but they aren't much less active. We used to be able to do /who commands to take server population snapshots but the syntax for that has been changed. Or it's just buggy now.