The mood about this xpac should be causing you (BW) to reevaluate the whole thing

[Thepyrethatburns]

(A lot of Bioware Defense)

 

*Pinches bridge of nose*

 

Y'know what? Fine. If you and JediQuaker want to keep defending decisions that have little to zero playerbase support under the guise of "Let's Wait and See".....fine. I've taken that stance before as well.

 

Just remember this and this is the difference in this Xpac versus the others.

 

This is the year.

 

This is the year that the exclusivity license runs out and EA stops letting things go on cruise control. This is the year that EA decides which projects are worth the money to rent out a non-exclusivity license for and which aren't.

 

If 7.0 causes another player exodus and another server shrinkage, the odds that Bioware will have the time to fix everything and make it all better before EA says "We're pulling the plug by the end of the year" are remote. The odds are that EA will have made the decision by the middle of the year if not sooner (which may be the reason for 7.0 dearth of actual content.)

 

Previously, EA had already paid up front for the license (of which even the non-exclusivity licenses are not cheap) so, unless it was an insanely bad idea, the majority of the money had already been sunk in. Now EA is actively going to decide whether or not to renew the licensing costs and that means, more than any Xpac before, they're going to be gauging the playerbase and seeing whether the game is worth continued support.

 

But, hey. If you're so sure that 7.0 will knock it right out of the park, more power to you.

[TrixxieTriss]

What experance of mmos are you drawing on? I mean you must have a vast knowledge of what works and what won't to make the clame that it will be "total rubbish" or most lightly you think it will be rubbish as it changes things you and a small amount of people like you like.

 

BW is doing nothing so crazy that means 70% / 80% of the player base will leave, all they're doing is freshen the game up its been stale for awhile now. BW is trying to make the game enjoyable for ALL not just a few vocal few, putting the focus on operations as a knock on effect that can only help the game grow... let me show you.

Having a focus on raiding will mean players need to now roll healers and tanks to make things easier, so that means you will see more of said classes in flashpoints, guilds will start to recruit for raiding rather than conquests. That means smaller guilds rather than a few big cesspool conquest guilds, more guilds means more players get to do content they wouldn't normally do. Having a smaller skill set means classes are easier to balance and then it's easier to add new skills later on as BW can focus more on skill / class balance...., this will mean more class diversity

 

Remind me how any of that is a bad thing?

 

My experience, not that it truly matters, is I played WoW from launch in 2004 till 2012 (that’s 8 years). I’ve played swtor ever since. So that’s 10 years of swtor (and over 19,000 hours of actual play time) I would guess that gives me a pretty good idea of the history of this game’s development and what has and hasn’t worked.

 

How long have you played swtor for? It seems like your were here at launch and then left soon after. Then came back in 2016 for an expansion and quickly left again. Then coming back 2019 for an expansion and left again till the next one and now this one. You don’t seem to stick around, so why should BioWare cater to players like yourself over players like me who’ve been playing non stop since 2012? We have kept the game alive with our subs so you could go play other games. But now you seem to want BioWare to run off long term players who’ve kept the lights on for you in between expansions.

 

I also never said anything about 70/80% of players leaving (stop trying to hyperbole the discussion). I said the expansion will be rubbish and I’m basing that on my past experience with swtor’s expansions and what I’ve personally tested on the PTS. How many hours have you tested on the PTS since BioWare put it up around the middle of last year?

 

If I had to guess, I would say we’ll lose anywhere from 5-20% of current players when 7.0 launches (that’s if they haven’t made major changes by launch). That’s still a significant amount for a game that can’t really afford to lose any. And while there maybe a bump then in new / returning players when it lands, past experience has shown that doesn’t last long and the majority leave with in months. Then we have less players than before the expansion (just like every other one they’ve released). You’d know that if you’d stuck around like I did between expansions.

 

Nothing Bioware is doing (besides duel combat spec, decoupled class stories and UI changes) is a refresh. Pruning our iconic abilities and then making us pick between ones we would normally have as default is not refreshing the game. It’s nuking the game and making it slower, less challenging, more boring and dumbing down out classes. All because BioWare can’t balance content properly. That’s not a refresh, that’s laziness or lack of talent.

 

If you actually understood this game better, you would know that your whole spiel about raiding is wrong. Half the classes are being destroyed and won’t be viable in raids or pvp. If you tested on the PTS, you’d understand that. Also, if you think raiders are the majority of players, then your completely misinformed. And if you think raiders and pvpers and hard mode pve players like the gear changes and ability pruning, then you really have no understanding of the player base.

 

The hard core raiders and pvpers and hard mode pvers have been testing and providing direct feed back to ChrisS and BioWare via Discord as well as the PTS forums. They can tell you straight up that NONE of them like the idea of static gearing. And hardly any of them like the idea of ability / utility choice pruning. So I wouldn’t say I’m in a minority. You only need to go and read the feed back to realise I’m not. But I’m guessing that’s just as hard as testing on the PTS. It’s far easier to read some 3rd party website blog to form your opinions

 

BioWare are being BioWare as per usual. That means 7.0 will launch with little variation from the PTS and it will be full of bugs (probably). Players will leave and the game will have less players by April than it does now, you can count on it. Not that, that will matter to you as you will probably leave the game again by May.

Edited January 19, 2022 by TrixxieTriss

[Wilsu_Addar]

My experience, not that it truly matters, is I played WoW from launch in 2004 till 2012 (that’s 8 years). I’ve played swtor ever since. So that’s 10 years of swtor (and over 19,000 hours of actual play time) I would guess that gives me a pretty good idea of the history of this game’s development and what has and hasn’t worked.

 

How long have you played swtor for? It seems like your were here at launch and then left soon after. Then came back in 2016 for an expansion and quickly left again. Then coming back 2019 for an expansion and left again till the next one and now this one. You don’t seem to stick around, so why should BioWare cater to players like yourself over players like me who’ve been playing non stop since 2012? We have kept the game alive with our subs so you could go play other games. But now you seem to want BioWare to run off long term players who’ve kept the lights on for you in between expansions.

 

I also never said anything about 70/80% of players leaving (stop trying to hyperbole the discussion). I said the expansion will be rubbish and I’m basing that on my past experience with swtor’s expansions and what I’ve personally tested on the PTS. How many hours have you tested on the PTS since BioWare put it up around the middle of last year?

 

If I had to guess, I would say we’ll lose anywhere from 5-20% of current players when 7.0 launches (that’s if they haven’t made major changes by launch). That’s still a significant amount for a game that can’t really afford to lose any. And while there maybe a bump then in new / returning players when it lands, past experience has shown that doesn’t last long and the majority leave with in months. Then we have less players than before the expansion (just like every other one they’ve released). You’d know that if you’d stuck around like I did between expansions.

 

Nothing Bioware is doing (besides duel combat spec, decoupled class stories and UI changes) is a refresh. Pruning our iconic abilities and then making us pick between ones we would normally have as default is not refreshing the game. It’s nuking the game and making it slower, less challenging, more boring and dumbing down out classes. All because BioWare can’t balance content properly. That’s not a refresh, that’s laziness or lack of talent.

 

If you actually understood this game better, you would know that your whole spiel about raiding is wrong. Half the classes are being destroyed and won’t be viable in raids or pvp. If you tested on the PTS, you’d understand that. Also, if you think raiders are the majority of players, then your completely misinformed. And if you think raiders and pvpers and hard mode pve players like the gear changes and ability pruning, then you really have no understanding of the player base.

 

The hard core raiders and pvpers and hard mode pvers have been testing and providing direct feed back to ChrisS and BioWare via Discord as well as the PTS forums. They can tell you straight up that NONE of them like the idea of static gearing. And hardly any of them like the idea of ability / utility choice pruning. So I wouldn’t say I’m in a minority. You only need to go and read the feed back to realise I’m not. But I’m guessing that’s just as hard as testing on the PTS. It’s far easier to read some 3rd party website blog to form your opinions

 

BioWare are being BioWare as per usual. That means 7.0 will launch with little variation from the PTS and it will be full of bugs (probably). Players will leave and the game will have less players by April than it does now, you can count on it. Not that, that will matter to you as you will probably leave the game again by May.

 

I haver never seen a forum post so thoroughly body-bag another poster. Hot DAMN you just decimated that guy.

[TrixxieTriss]

I haver never seen a forum post so thoroughly body-bag another poster. Hot DAMN you just decimated that guy.

 

That wasn’t my intent. I just wanted to highlight the difference between players legitimately complaining for good reason and those who are white knighting for the sake of it (not actually testing themselves).

Edited January 19, 2022 by TrixxieTriss

[TziganeNZ]

I've been reading this thread with much trepidation and also sorrow. It seems that some people just don't get why those of us who do not raid are worried. Let me try to explain.

 

This weekend just gone, I got my very first piece of gold 300 level gear on a character. No biggie to you, right? Was I excited? Did I jump around the room with glee? Hell YEAH!! I had such a sense of achievement, that I was progressing and improving my character, that I had actually ACCOMPLISHED something. It was also tinged with sadness as I realised that moments like these will not exist after 14 February for me in this game.

 

Why? Some context:

 

I am a solo player. I will NEVER group for Operations etc. There is NOTHING that will ever make me group.

I only do story mode flashpoints. I do not even know the difference between Master Mode and Veteran Mode, and quite frankly really don't care to.

I do not do PvP or GSF.

I am not in any guild, and will never join one as I can't be bothered with the inevitable drama (I work at a hospital - I get all the drama I need in my life at work).

 

After 14 February, all sense of achievement for improving my character is lost to me and I will be stuck with non-moddable crappy green gear that I will never be able to upgrade. Do I need best in slot gear? No. But I also don't need others telling me that as I don't play what they think is the right and only way to play, then I don't deserve to have the ability to improve my characters.

 

My usual pathways to upgrading and improving my characters are:

Conquest - will be nerfed into oblivion

Story mode flashpoints - from what I've read, story mode flashpoints will not drop gear

Renown - being removed

Fleet vendor - being removed/changed to something I will never have enough currency to buy from

Modification of gear - not available to me for a very long time, if ever, as I will only be able to get crappy STATIC green gear.

 

So what will happen for me is this:

1. I will take one character from each faction on each server (I play on all 3 English-speaking servers) through the story

2. I will unsub

3. I will go and play something else that WILL give me that sense of achievement and the satisfaction of improvement.

 

This is what I am facing as a story mode, solo player. Those who cry "But it's a MMO, you HAVE to group" don't get it - MMO simply means Massively Multiplayer Online, i.e. lots of people running around the persistent game world. It doesn't mean you have to group to play effectively. There is absolutely nothing that will force me to group. I have a sub for FF14 that I'm about to cancel as I can't stand the forced grouping for dungeons just to progress the story.

Edited January 19, 2022 by TziganeNZ

[Ghost_Spectre]

No I’m not playing it yet. I tested it a few years ago during a free trial, but didn’t continue because swtor still had my attention.

I had planned to start playing when endwalker released, but with queues and then SE putting a halt on new accounts, I decided I’d wait till the APAC servers were launched.

I’m pretty excited for the 25th Jan when they’ll be opening the servers and start selling digital copies again.

 

You don't have to wait long in queues now. There's practically no wait to get on and play on my server. 20 to 40 in the queue...then in a minute or two...you're on. They are opening up a Oceanic server; however, I'm not transferring to it. So let me know if you're going to play in NA, I'm on Aether/Adamantoise. If you want to be part of a Free Company, I'm in one of the best I've had the opportunity to participate in.

[Pricia]

I've been reading this thread with much trepidation and also sorrow. It seems that some people just don't get why those of us who do not raid are worried. Let me try to explain.

 

This weekend just gone, I got my very first piece of gold 300 level gear on a character. No biggie to you, right? Was I excited? Did I jump around the room with glee? Hell YEAH!! I had such a sense of achievement, that I was progressing and improving my character, that I had actually ACCOMPLISHED something. It was also tinged with sadness as I realised that moments like these will not exist after 14 February for me in this game.

 

Why? Some context:

 

I am a solo player. I will NEVER group for Operations etc. There is NOTHING that will ever make me group.

I only do story mode flashpoints. I do not even know the difference between Master Mode and Veteran Mode, and quite frankly really don't care to.

I do not do PvP or GSF.

I am not in any guild, and will never join one as I can't be bothered with the inevitable drama (I work at a hospital - I get all the drama I need in my life at work).

 

After 14 February, all sense of achievement for improving my character is lost to me and I will be stuck with non-moddable crappy green gear that I will never be able to upgrade. Do I need best in slot gear? No. But I also don't need others telling me that as I don't play what they think is the right and only way to play, then I don't deserve to have the ability to improve my characters.

 

My usual pathways to upgrading and improving my characters are:

Conquest - will be nerfed into oblivion

Story mode flashpoints - from what I've read, story mode flashpoints will not drop gear

Renown - being removed

Fleet vendor - being removed/changed to something I will never have enough currency to buy from

Modification of gear - not available to me for a very long time, if ever, as I will only be able to get crappy STATIC green gear.

 

So what will happen for me is this:

1. I will take one character from each faction on each server (I play on all 3 English-speaking servers) through the story

2. I will unsub

3. I will go and play something else that WILL give me that sense of achievement and the satisfaction of improvement.

 

This is what I am facing as a story mode, solo player. Those who cry "But it's a MMO, you HAVE to group" don't get it - MMO simply means Massively Multiplayer Online, i.e. lots of people running around the persistent game world. It doesn't mean you have to group to play effectively. There is absolutely nothing that will force me to group. I have a sub for FF14 that I'm about to cancel as I can't stand the forced grouping for dungeons just to progress the story.

 

Yeah I would love to try FF14 but I'm not grouping either so I won't. Same as you, but I've had enough drama in other MMOs to never want to group again. But I love the MMO aspect for frequent updates and ability to trade. If I found a single player RPG that had so many updates, I'd go there right away, believe me...

 

You'll still be able to upgrade your gear though. Upgrade parts drop in story mode FPs and other solo content, you just don't get drops. So yeah, it will be slower than 6.0, but just doing CQ you should be able to upgrade your gear eventually... just won't be able to mod it or go as high as players who run ops.

 

About the guild, I eventually joined some,but I was clear - I don't talk, I just do CQ. Most are fine with it. They get your weekly plans and your contribution, you get loot. Mostly, unfortunately with 7.0 guilds will pretty much be the main way of getting tech fragments.

[Rolodome]

Yeah, while we're on the subject, personally, I've done the whole guild raiding thing before. Did it for years in the past, consumed a good portion of my life. It was fun while it lasted, but I'm not in a position now where I want to be getting that closely involved with the social life of a video game, so I hang out on the fringes soloing heroics, filling my need for the occasional MMO socializing through vet FPs, replaying story with new chars as it strikes me, and enjoying customizing my character's looks. Nothing would make me group up more in this game, I will just stop playing if it stops being enjoyable the way I've played it in the past, which I've done before, IIRC when the thrill of the hunt BS was in full swing.

 

The pattern of them making panned patches and then finally tweaking it to a palatable state that people are pretty ok with only to make another panned patch is really something, idk what gives with this game. Like how can you even recommend this game to people when you know it might look completely different a year later and then different again the year after that. When I reflect on it in that way, it's no wonder to me it struggles with pop over the years; can't stick to an identity.

[WNxAbaddon]

My experience, not that it truly matters, is I played WoW from launch in 2004 till 2012 (that’s 8 years). I’ve played swtor ever since. So that’s 10 years of swtor (and over 19,000 hours of actual play time) I would guess that gives me a pretty good idea of the history of this game’s development and what has and hasn’t worked.

 

It matters as I want to understand WHY you think it's going to be utter rubbish what makes you think that? I ask your experience, not game time there is a difference. At that time did you raid in a wow & swtor? If so, your progress are you experiencing 1% of the game or a 100%

 

How long have you played swtor for? It seems like your were here at launch and then left soon after. Then came back in 2016 for an expansion and quickly left again. Then coming back 2019 for an expansion and left again till the next one and now this one. You don’t seem to stick around, so why should BioWare cater to players like yourself over players like me who’ve been playing non stop since 2012? We have kept the game alive with our subs so you could go play other games. But now you seem to want BioWare to run off long term players who’ve kept the lights on for you in between expansions.

 

You're partly correct, I was here just as the beta ended then played till the rise of the hutt cartel, left after bw "free expansion" turned out not to be free, went back to wow to raid with a mythic progression guild for a number of years, but I never really left kept my toons ticking over. However, you raise a good point

then coming back 2019 for an expansion and left again till the next one and now this one. You don’t seem to stick around, so why should BioWare cater to players like yourself

that is what 99% of story based players do, if there is no new content they leave and you want to cater to them MORE?

 

I also never said anything about 70/80% of players leaving (stop trying to hyperbole the discussion). I said the expansion will be rubbish and I’m basing that on my past experience with swtor’s expansions and what I’ve personally tested on the PTS. How many hours have you tested on the PTS since BioWare put it up around the middle of last year?

 

I don't and won't test on the PTR for a few reasons.

 

1 it always changes, you can't get a feel for anything as it always changes when they add or remove things. Let's be truthful the PTR is only really there to fix bugs and glitches anyway, no gaming company since the dawn of time as ever gone "oh yeah Darth Jimmys totally right lets change this" No it never did.

 

2 Put ten people in a room on the PTR 5 hours later they're trying to kill each other to prove what THEY want is right your never going to make everyone happy all the time, put in green hats people want blue hats.

 

If I had to guess, I would say we’ll lose anywhere from 5-20% of current players when 7.0 launches (that’s if they haven’t made major changes by launch). That’s still a significant amount for a game that can’t really afford to lose any. And while there maybe a bump then in new / returning players when it lands, past experience has shown that doesn’t last long and the majority leave with in months. Then we have less players than before the expansion (just like every other one they’ve released). You’d know that if you’d stuck around like I did between expansions.

 

Why is it always doom, doom, doom with you people? I have seen bad expansion launch (as flashbacks back to Cata,WoD and BoA) don't assume for one moment that as am arguing against you that I don't know what am talking about, I understand your points of view, however for every one person like you there's 10 people that don't post on the forums (I don't normally) that are perfectly happy and are just waiting, don't think for a moment that just because YOU and a vocal minority (on the forums) doesn't want this that EVERYONE doesn't want it.

 

Nothing Bioware is doing (besides duel combat spec, decoupled class stories and UI changes) is a refresh. Pruning our iconic abilities and then making us pick between ones we would normally have as default is not refreshing the game. It’s nuking the game and making it slower, less challenging, more boring and dumbing down out classes. All because BioWare can’t balance content properly. That’s not a refresh, that’s laziness or lack of talent.

 

I really don't think you can see the wood for the trees, skill bloat is a issue in a lot of games, over the years more and more skills get added, till you need 10 bars all keybinded and 3 hands, removing skills CAN be a good thing, it will give them a base to balance from think long term, over time be it months or years they can add in new skills slowly to keep the game balanced, pvpers have been begging for balance for years and sometimes you need to remove things to add in new things later.

 

If you actually understood this game better, you would know that your whole spiel about raiding is wrong. Half the classes are being destroyed and won’t be viable in raids or pvp. If you tested on the PTS, you’d understand that. Also, if you think raiders are the majority of players, then your completely misinformed. And if you think raiders and pvpers and hard mode pve players like the gear changes and ability pruning, then you really have no understanding of the player base.

 

What you seem not to understand yourself, for the first time in years the power creep will be dead, YES classes will be weaker YES, you will have to put in a little more effort than now, you can't tell me you enjoy killing the emperor in 4 hits as you so totally overpowered? You're looking at a work of art from a microscope and yelling that the 3% of what you can see is "utter rubbish" but you're not looking at the FULL picture, your treating 7.0 as the full explanation, its not its just the beginning, over time it will change and grow BW know their player base, they will have more data than you and me on who is doing what.

 

The hard core raiders and pvpers and hard mode pvers have been testing and providing direct feed back to ChrisS and BioWare via Discord as well as the PTS forums. They can tell you straight up that NONE of them like the idea of static gearing. And hardly any of them like the idea of ability / utility choice pruning. So I wouldn’t say I’m in a minority. You only need to go and read the feed back to realise I’m not. But I’m guessing that’s just as hard as testing on the PTS. It’s far easier to read some 3rd party website blog to form your opinions

 

If people are giving feedback and BW are doing nothing about it, then there is a bigger plan at work. You need to remember, BW will have this planned out from start to finish, sure they might cave two weeks into 7.0 and admit you are all right (I don't think you are) again people need to see 7.0 live and after one or two content patches to see where 7.0 is going. Your basically chucking the baby out with the bath water due to the fact you don't like like the bath.

 

BioWare are being BioWare as per usual. That means 7.0 will launch with little variation from the PTS and it will be full of bugs (probably). Players will leave and the game will have less players by April than it does now, you can count on it. Not that, that will matter to you as you will probably leave the game again by May.

 

If that's the case so be it, you can sit there and stroke your ego and tell the 2nd to last guy out the door you was right all along, or you can admit that you might be wrong and just wait and play it with a open mind, try the new content enjoy the new changes and see them as challenges to be overcome meet new people and enjoy a part of the game you never thought you would. What you see as "utter rubbish" I see as a base to build up from, removing the dead wood to add in new things, not all of it will work, but you have to give them room to try new things.

 

The truth is we will never agree, you see things one way I see things another, you're so convinced your right, 7.0 could be the best thing ever, but you would never see it, you won't allow yourself to see it. At least I have hope that it might be good I would rather live in a world where I might be wrong and have hope it will work than see everything new and different as evil and "utter rubbish". What you want is a game made FOR YOU not for other people you don't want the game to change not that you're worried about subs or the game itself but it was changing how YOU play, I keep saying am a solo player I want solo content but am not so focused on myself that I don't want more diverse content.

Edited January 19, 2022 by WNxAbaddon

[JediQuaker]

It's odd the way some people approach this. When some of us say "wait and see", others say "no, we need to get on the PTS and tell BW what's wrong". But then they turn around and suggest that "BW never listens to their feedback".

 

Well, if BW isn't going to listen to your feedback, why spend all this time complaining? Why not just wait and see? You can always just quit later. 🙄

[SeCKSEgai]

The problem with the upcoming 7.0 is this:

 

We're leveling up only to become weaker with worse gear with the only consolation being able to swap to an additional set of specs that was also made weaker anyway to basically replay the same content we've had for the last several years.

 

When I started raiding I had to link my underlurker achievement just to get into a story mode ToS Pug.

 

Today I had to summon a guy that was in his second raid that clicked the wrong button after death and got lost on Rishi.

 

It was just a 16m Story Mode Ravs. One of the new guys died at least once every boss fight. Several of us had to inform the group to target the little guy (master) and lost almost half the group at one point. If they hadn't dumbed it down to the 30s combat rezzes that pug would have ended there as only a handful of us were carrying the group.

 

Raiding and group content isn't the magic it once was. The night before we couldn't even find 5 people for an HM and the 4th was only a level 70 and didn't know any better. If not for the crazy inflation I would have probably paid to hire a team just to take me through some of the achievements I've wanted. Prog teams tend to require long term commitment and I find it hard to want to stay subbed for more than a few months at a time.

 

Crafting isn't going to change things -- most of us can craft everything we need because we have the alts for it. And since some players have exorbitant wealth, they're able to manipulate the market to their favor. I remember when I thought being able to craft every 220 was great --- then they changed the gear and it meant nothing -- that's the cycle. In the case of 6.0 the crafting market was mainly folks wishing to speed up the grind to 306 (aside from usual consumables) so very niche and generally not worth the effort.

[Pricia]

It's odd the way some people approach this. When some of us say "wait and see", others say "no, we need to get on the PTS and tell BW what's wrong". But then they turn around and suggest that "BW never listens to their feedback".

 

Well, if BW isn't going to listen to your feedback, why spend all this time complaining? Why not just wait and see? You can always just quit later. 🙄

 

Because at least we tried.

[DWho]

It's odd the way some people approach this. When some of us say "wait and see", others say "no, we need to get on the PTS and tell BW what's wrong". But then they turn around and suggest that "BW never listens to their feedback".

 

Well, if BW isn't going to listen to your feedback, why spend all this time complaining? Why not just wait and see? You can always just quit later. 🙄

 

Because if you don't try to get things changed, you can never succeed in getting them changed.

[SeCKSEgai]

It's odd the way some people approach this. When some of us say "wait and see", others say "no, we need to get on the PTS and tell BW what's wrong". But then they turn around and suggest that "BW never listens to their feedback".

 

Well, if BW isn't going to listen to your feedback, why spend all this time complaining? Why not just wait and see? You can always just quit later. 🙄

 

I've quit once before - namely after ignored feedback by plenty besides myself --- you know the stuff they thought was better only for it to wreck the economy and find they have to change it anyway---- only to replace it with something even worse....

 

Keep in mind a number of us have years invested in our characters --- there's a sentimental attachment. I'm already prepping to leave for the final time but there's still a chance they realize how poorly it will fare when it hits live.

[WNxAbaddon]

The problem with the upcoming 7.0 is this:

 

We're leveling up only to become weaker with worse gear with the only consolation being able to swap to an additional set of specs that was also made weaker anyway to basically replay the same content we've had for the last several years.

 

When I started raiding I had to link my underlurker achievement just to get into a story mode ToS Pug.

 

Today I had to summon a guy that was in his second raid that clicked the wrong button after death and got lost on Rishi.

 

It was just a 16m Story Mode Ravs. One of the new guys died at least once every boss fight. Several of us had to inform the group to target the little guy (master) and lost almost half the group at one point. If they hadn't dumbed it down to the 30s combat rezzes that pug would have ended there as only a handful of us were carrying the group.

 

Raiding and group content isn't the magic it once was. The night before we couldn't even find 5 people for an HM and the 4th was only a level 70 and didn't know any better. If not for the crazy inflation I would have probably paid to hire a team just to take me through some of the achievements I've wanted. Prog teams tend to require long term commitment and I find it hard to want to stay subbed for more than a few months at a time.

 

Crafting isn't going to change things -- most of us can craft everything we need because we have the alts for it. And since some players have exorbitant wealth, they're able to manipulate the market to their favor. I remember when I thought being able to craft every 220 was great --- then they changed the gear and it meant nothing -- that's the cycle. In the case of 6.0 the crafting market was mainly folks wishing to speed up the grind to 306 (aside from usual consumables) so very niche and generally not worth the effort.

 

See 90% of this I can get behind, I understand this argument and in part I agree with it. however what your talking about in the symptoms of being solely focused on the "single player" aspect of the game.

 

Crafting is pointless as it was made super easy to lvl and gear alts who can make the things you want, people can then charge what they want due to the fact they only need the credits. New players get screwed as now stims cost 3 million for 5 so what you have is a player base that dosn't want things to change as they have all the power in game. A new player will leave after a few weeks / months as the time to get to where 99% of the player base are is totaly insane.

 

As for the raiding argument, what you said is true. However, unlike when a game first comes out new raiders (like myself) won't raid after a few bad experances and trying to "catch up" with the current raiders feels like it is impossible, so unless you bring people down to the same level and then move forword raiding where you wont have such a gear / level devide, new raiders can join new raiding guilds who will let players get used to content they have never done, your bringing the player rather than the gear.

 

We're leveling up only to become weaker with worse gear with the only consolation being able to swap to an additional set of specs that was also made weaker anyway to basically replay the same content we've had for the last several years.

 

I understand the frustration here, but look at it from my point of view, 90% of the old story content is pointless, you can sleep walk you way though the game to the point where you can watch a show wile playing (watching Bones at the moment) theres no effort, it feels like a chore to get though to the new stuff, by making it even a little harder means I might even have to pay attention what am doing rather than just hitting 1234 over and over. Just coz your weaker dosn't mean its a bad thing people get enjoyment out of a challance.

[juliushorst]

Well, if BW isn't going to listen to your feedback, why spend all this time complaining? Why not just wait and see? You can always just quit later. 🙄

 

They do listen if you keep the pressure. We complained about galactic command and we got vendors. Some people complained about heroics for conquest and it got nerfed. Another person thought their small guild can't win conquest because big guilds have bio crafting and bio crafting got nerfed.

[juliushorst]

Just coz your weaker dosn't mean its a bad thing people get enjoyment out of a challance.

 

Then make a separate instance for those who do. Personally I don't enjoy challenge and I put a lot of effort into making the game as easy as possible for myself through gearing and min-maxing.

[Xhuuyaa]

I understand the frustration here, but look at it from my point of view, 90% of the old story content is pointless...

 

Seems you understand nothing. Nobody complains because he gets weaker in old story content - most people complaining because their classes get nerfed into oblivion with gear stats they cant even change anymore, what mean they can't play anymore the things that they're playing right now. Mara or juggs for exampel will be dead for pvp & most harder pve content after 7.0. And sorry to say but I want lose competetive classes I like because you get bored and watching tv while doing old story content... You talk about bringing raiders back and making endgame fun & then argue to balance arround oldest low level content? Wth?!

[WNxAbaddon]

Seems you understand nothing. Nobody complains because he gets weaker in old story content - most people complaining because their classes get nerfed into oblivion with gear stats they cant even change anymore, what mean they can't play anymore the things that they're playing right now. Mara or juggs for exampel will be dead for pvp & most harder pve content after 7.0. And sorry to say but I want lose competetive classes I like because you get bored and watching tv while doing old story content... You talk about bringing raiders back and making endgame fun & then argue to balance arround oldest low level content? Wth?!

 

I was replaying to this

 

We're leveling up only to become weaker with worse gear with the only consolation being able to swap to an additional set of specs that was also made weaker anyway to basically replay the same content we've had for the last several years.

 

My argument is story mode content is to easy, if you say use a master datacron at lvl one, you have maxed toon and gear to 70, everything up till that point is pointless sure you can change the skill level but even then its still not much harder. Gearing new toons at this point is like starting a lvl 1 in full gear, add in xp boosts and heroic quest gear (you can solo them now) there is no challange no matter how you play your new toon.

 

what am more focused on is that 75 to 80 bracket, end game story content is ment to be harder than something you did at level 4, but at the moment its not, now if your telling me that due to the gear / skill change that no class will be able to do story mode at 75/80 then am sorry your overeacting. Classes sould be balanced around the hardest content NM ops if all classes are viable then theres no issue (this isnt always the case however)

 

So in truth what am saying is by backet your fav class sould be balanced, so your in 326 ilvl gear your class sould finish all story content, however if it can't then BW need to fix that. if your in end game ops gear and your dps is to low then I agree that needs a fix, but don't go overborde. If you fail at the first try get better and see where you can improve, if nothing you try works then by all means rant and raave about balance till they listen. But at the same time don't go OTT and dumb everything down to the point where watching a tv show is better experance than playing the game.

 

Would you say that what's on the PTS now is "challenging"?

 

As I have said I don't use the PTS look back to see why, but am more than happy to wait and see till its live.....Why? things can change at any moment, BW might not be finished on there balancing passes yet so untill its live....Keep calm and when its live if its as bad as people say, THEN you can tell them as there as been a mistake. But may I ask how do you define "challenging" is it had to wait a hole 1 sec longer to kill a mob or that mob just 1 shot me with all my def up.

Edited January 19, 2022 by WNxAbaddon

[Savej]

I understand the frustration here, but look at it from my point of view, 90% of the old story content is pointless, you can sleep walk you way though the game to the point where you can watch a show wile playing (watching Bones at the moment) theres no effort, it feels like a chore to get though to the new stuff, by making it even a little harder means I might even have to pay attention what am doing rather than just hitting 1234 over and over. Just coz your weaker dosn't mean its a bad thing people get enjoyment out of a challance.

 

Would you say that what's on the PTS now is "challenging"?

[juliushorst]

My argument is story mode content is to easy, if you say use a master datacron at lvl one, you have maxed toon and gear to 70, everything up till that point is pointless sure you can change the skill level but even then its still not much harder.

 

So if people wanted "challenge" (you say challenge, I say slog) nobody would be buying Master Datacron. It would appear this is not the case: Master Datacrons sell like crazy on GTN. At the same time Veteran and Master Mode chapters (difficult story content) are at the very bottom of Steam achievement list. This indicates that most players don't want difficult story content.

[WNxAbaddon]

So if people wanted "challenge" (you say challenge, I say slog) nobody would be buying Master Datacron. It would appear this is not the case: Master Datacrons sell like crazy on GTN. At the same time Veteran and Master Mode chapters (difficult story content) are at the very bottom of Steam achievement list. This indicates that most players don't want difficult story content.

 

I play veteran only, but remember we are in a stagnant stage of the game, I would argue most peoples "main" as done veteran mode at least, but when it comes to lvling alts for the sake of crafting or blasting though that trooper story you still havent done Abaddon :mad: to get the legandery player, getting a datacron and then blasting on story mode is the quicket way of getting that achievement done. so you have your main doing the harder stuff and your alts doing the easy stuff you, thats 7 alts and your main ofc that going to be low.

[juliushorst]

I play veteran only, but remember we are in a stagnant stage of the game, I would argue most peoples "main" as done veteran mode at least,.

 

I have 187 Steam achievements, chapters are the only four missing because the idea behind harder mode chapters is in my opinion antithesis of fun

[Xhuuyaa]

My argument is story mode content is to easy, if you say use a master datacron at lvl one, you have maxed toon and gear to 70, everything up till that point is pointless sure you can change the skill level but even then its still not much harder. Gearing new toons at this point is like starting a lvl 1 in full gear, add in xp boosts and heroic quest gear (you can solo them now) there is no challange no matter how you play your new toon.

 

This is true.. but the master datacron is a shortcut. If you decide to use it, you can't complain that it works out this way. There are also other machanics that work to your favor like legacy-datacrons which boost your stats even at level one.

 

 

what am more focused on is that 75 to 80 bracket, end game story content is ment to be harder than something you did at level 4

 

Kotet & Kotfe offers the option playing it in 3 difficulties... isnt this enough? Most people I know despise playing this in hardmode, because its considered unusual hard to do. Here youll have the option to play a hardest difficulty - what almost nobody does, exept once for the achivement.

 

 

If you fail at the first try get better and see where you can improve, if nothing you try works then by all means rant and raave about balance till they listen.

 

I've had a special encounter in mind, when I'm writing this... thats the Sword Squadron in ToS Hardmode. I main a Mara and I've literally have to use every single dcd I have to play this... sometimes even this isn't enough. I would consider myself kinda decent to play. Thats not the hardest stuff, I dont talk about Nim and so on....

 

The other one is regs in WZs... PvP. Again I'm not talking about high class/end ranked... Even right now, you will barely see a Fury Mara doing regs... its not fun. Regs are dominated by stealth und ranged classes for some reasons. After 7.0 without a hardstun, mezz, obfuscate an other dcds, Maras will be obliterated in pvp, so they will stop playing. Juggs are in a very similar spot.

 

Like Triss wrote, half the classes will no more viable in pve or pvp, If you really think thats the right way to balance the story pve content you're playing... than may it be. The people who liked playing those classes will stop playing them or/and leave. In the last weeks i've deleted 20 toons... and if 7.0 hits the way it is on pts I will unsub and go like the other of my guild to FF14. Not because I think it matters to someone - its just that I can't play the things I used to play anymore, and its no more fun to play the wreck of a class I once loved.

Edited January 19, 2022 by Xhuuyaa

[WNxAbaddon]

This is true.. but the master datacron is a shortcut. If you decide to use it, you can't complain that it works out this way. There are also other machanics that work to your favor like legacy-datacrons which boost your stats even at level one.

 

This is my point, theres more than enough boosts to get even the most lazy players to finish content. but my argument all the boosts take something away for me, I am ment to be scard of the emperor hes all powerfull, I killed him in 3 hits........ see my point (jedi knight)

 

Kotet & Kotfe offers the option playing it in 3 difficulties... isnt this enough? Most people I know despise playing this in hardmode, because its considered unusual hard to do. Here youll have the option to play a hardest difficulty - what almost nobody does, exept once for the achivement.

 

Ill try and brake this down so am hoping you can understand my PoV better. I play vet as much as I can but I never do master, why? I want to have fun. Fun for me is beleaving Vaylin can kill my jedi if I don't at least put some effort in, but at the same time I don't want to bang my head agenst a wall for 8 hours trying to beat her. The way I see swtor at the moment is like watching the movies and luke beating Darth Vader with a pool noodle in 3 hits its just not believable. I want to be scard of Vaylin not indiffrent.

 

I've had a special encounter in mind, when I'm writing this... thats the Sword Squadron in ToS Hardmode. I main a Mara and I've literally have to use every single dcd I have to play this... sometimes even this isn't enough. I would consider myself kinda decent to play. Thats not the hardest stuff, I dont talk about Nim and so on....

 

The other one is regs in WZs... PvP. Again I'm not talking about high class/end ranked... Even right now, you will barely see a Fury Mara doing regs... its not fun. Regs are dominated by stealth und ranged classes for some reasons. After 7.0 without a hardstun, mezz, obfuscate an other dcds, Maras will be obliterated in pvp, so they will stop playing. Juggs are in a very similar spot.

 

I agree 100% with you here, but like I have said before we are still aways off from release and it might get pushed back again, hold on till 7.0 is out if its unbalanced still Ill be with you arguing for better balance, but remember they are removing skills and gear will change so give them some time to do a few balance patches.

 

Like Triss wrote, half the classes will no more viable in pve or pvp, If you really think thats the right way to balance the story pve content you're playing... than may it be. The people who liked playing those classes will stop playing them or/and leave. In the last weeks i've deleted 20 toons... and if 7.0 hits the way it is on pts I will unsub and go like the other of my guild to FF14. Not because I think it matters to someone - its just that I can't play the things I used to play anymore, and its no more fun to play the wreck of a class I onced loved.

 

Again I agree to a point, there trying to make things as simple as they can to balance them, a class with 3 skills is easer to balance then 30, that being said I recamend you stick around, as once things ARE balanced am 1000% sure new skills and set bonus will come out, Yes it will feal odd to start with but your mara will be better than ever just give them time.