Plz Don't Assume My Combat Style...

[AdjeYo]

I am still not 100% not confused...

 

So, my light V Sith assassin (who is max level, end game) will upon logging in for the first time after 7.0 hits be able to change her first combat style (assassin) to the mirror aka shadow should she wish to? correct?

and then also will be able to choose a second style, yes?

 

Correct. Though you only get the chance once, if you decide not to, that's final.

 

What about tech classes?

Will my (max level, ch. 3 finished) gunslinger be able to switch to the mirror sniper if she has any dark points (and/or the dark/light 5 achievement)? if not, why not?

And will my scounrdel who is lvl 75 but still deep in her class/origin story be able to switch the first combat style to its mirror operative upon completing ch. 3? if not, why not?

 

You will not be able to switch either of those. Switching is exclusive to Force using classes.

Edited December 4, 2021 by AdjeYo

[Dekibra]

Correct. Though you only get the chance once, if you decide not to, that's final.

 

 

You will not be able to switch either of those. Switching is exclusive to Force using classes.

 

thanks for answering!

Do you know why tech classes won't be able to switch by any chance?

[AdjeYo]

thanks for answering!

Do you know why tech classes won't be able to switch by any chance?

 

They cited technical difficulties. It might be because of the weapon you use. Force using classes use the same weapons as their mirrors. Tech classes don't.

[BHWolf]

They cited technical difficulties. It might be because of the weapon you use. Force using classes use the same weapons as their mirrors. Tech classes don't.

 

If that was the case then surely that would prohibit a new character using an alternative weapon currently associated with the storyline (pre 7.0).

Also, I may have missed this, but I do not recall any statement to the effect that as a first choice, force users cannot swap to an alternate combat style of the same alignment.

[LordCamTheGreat]

Screw Discord. One shouldn't have to install a third party program just to get updates on a game one pays for.

 

Which is why the devs should stop posting important information on third party platforms when they've made it clear that they don't want to use official third party platforms. It's just asking for trouble. Chris was even the one saying that they don't want to have a discord server and then goes and says things on discord that he should be saying on the forums so we can use the dev tracker. It's getting really frustrating how poorly managed this launch is and it's not even out yet.

[Exly]

1. Suggestion: Don't reply as a dev on some obscure Discord which only a minority of players frequents. Instead, reply to the Discord-questions here in the dev tracker and then link your reply in Discord. Like that, you show that you're active on Discord, but you make sure that your reply is official, gets to be seen by many more players, and you don't have to do double work. In my native language we have a saying which goes like this: "The opposite of good is well intended." Not sure if such a saying exists in English as well, but maybe you get my gist.

 

This is a very good suggestion. In the past the devs have admonished people for getting a believing information that they receive from places other than the official forums or other official swtor souces. Now they communicate on a discord server that speaks to a select group of people who were lucky enough to know of and have somehow gotten access to.

 

If the discord site is now to be considered an official source of information, then it should be made available to all interested parties. Short of that, all official information should be communicated to us on the forums, and the devs should refrain from using discord, or any non-official source to make statements about the game.

 

About your question. In the USA we have a saying similar to yours. It is "the road to hell is paved with good intention".

[Siita]

However, to build upon Jackie’s clarification post here, we wanted to give Force Origin Story players some choice when the 7.0 update releases. So all pre-7.0 Force characters that have opposite alignment to their current class will be given the option to swap their primary combat style to the opposite aligned equivalent upon logging in post-7.0.

 

This means if you are a Jedi Knight or Jedi Consular, and have at least 1 Dark Side point away from 0, you will be given this choice. Likewise, if you are a Sith Warrior or Sith Inquisitor, and have at least 1 Light Side point away from 0, you will be given this choice. This will be regardless of any Legacy unlocks or otherwise. Once that character is in the game, and the swap choice has been made or refused, the rules as described above will still apply.

Thanks for this update!

 

Will there be any story completion requirements for an eligible force-using character to make this decision? I have had the Dark/Light unlock completed for quite some time now but would love to know if I need to grind out any story in the next ten days in order for characters to become compliant and thus make the swap from sorc -> sage combat styles and so on...etc.

 

Thank you!

[Cedia]

Which is why the devs should stop posting important information on third party platforms when they've made it clear that they don't want to use official third party platforms. It's just asking for trouble. Chris was even the one saying that they don't want to have a discord server and then goes and says things on discord that he should be saying on the forums so we can use the dev tracker. It's getting really frustrating how poorly managed this launch is and it's not even out yet.

 

I absolutely agree. I mean, why would you even have a community manager if you're going to pull this crap?

[Cedia]

Thanks for this update!

 

Will there be any story completion requirements for an eligible force-using character to make this decision? I have had the Dark/Light unlock completed for quite some time now but would love to know if I need to grind out any story in the next ten days in order for characters to become compliant and thus make the swap from sorc -> sage combat styles and so on...etc.

 

Thank you!

 

Thank you for asking this, as I'm also in the same situation. I have the legacy unlocks, and my Jedi characters are both Dark I. They're at level 75 thanks to the exp boost events, but they're still in Chapter 1 of their storylines. I'd really love to be able to get 2 Dark Side combat styles for each of them.

Edited December 4, 2021 by Cedia

[AdjeYo]

If that was the case then surely that would prohibit a new character using an alternative weapon currently associated with the storyline (pre 7.0).

Also, I may have missed this, but I do not recall any statement to the effect that as a first choice, force users cannot swap to an alternate combat style of the same alignment.

 

I don't think that's true per se. Pre 7.0 characters have already been created with their current weapon. Whereas a fresh 7.0 character is created freshly. I don't know the exact details of how things are coded of course, but that can very much be the deciding factor as to why a 7.0 character can be a Vanguard/Mercenary Smuggler, but a pre 7.0 character can't.

 

As to your second point, Chris said this:

"So all pre-7.0 Force characters that have opposite alignment to their current class will be given the option to swap their primary combat style to the opposite aligned equivalent upon logging in post-7.0."

 

It says quite clearly you can only change your primary combat style to the opposite aligned equivalent. Not any of the alternate combat styles of the same alignment. You can pick those as a secondary combat style of course, but your primary style will be what advanced class you have right now or the mirror spec (only if that you are a force user with opposite alignment from your faction).

[BHWolf]

I don't think that's true per se. Pre 7.0 characters have already been created with their current weapon. Whereas a fresh 7.0 character is created freshly. I don't know the exact details of how things are coded of course, but that can very much be the deciding factor as to why a 7.0 character can be a Vanguard/Mercenary Smuggler, but a pre 7.0 character can't.

 

As to your second point, Chris said this:

"So all pre-7.0 Force characters that have opposite alignment to their current class will be given the option to swap their primary combat style to the opposite aligned equivalent upon logging in post-7.0."

 

It says quite clearly you can only change your primary combat style to the opposite aligned equivalent. Not any of the alternate combat styles of the same alignment. You can pick those as a secondary combat style of course, but your primary style will be what advanced class you have right now or the mirror spec (only if that you are a force user with opposite alignment from your faction).

 

I see your point about the force users having the same weapon regardless of alignment. But that then raises the question as to why initially the tech classes were told they would be able to choose a combat style that uses a different weapon, yet the force users were restricted to just mirror combat styles that used the same weapon. It would seem to suggest that right at the beginning there was doubt about what could be achieved.

 

This is perhaps a 'can of worms' that is never going to be answered unless Bioware were to clearly state what exactly are the 'technical issues'; to date the assumption is that this refers to coding. However, I doubt many here would expect such transparency.

[CrazyScruffy]

I am still not 100% not confused...

 

So, my light V Sith assassin (who is max level, end game) will upon logging in for the first time after 7.0 hits be able to change her first combat style (assassin) to the mirror aka shadow should she wish to? correct?

and then also will be able to choose a second style, yes?

 

Correct. Though you only get the chance once, if you decide not to, that's final.

 

actually, that is not correct. accounts that have dark/light 5 will not be able to swap to their mirror class. they will have to use their second combat style if they want their mirror class

 

something that i posted earlier that is relevant to think about

I think for us existing players, something just popped into my head. Yes, newer players will get the added benefit of swapping to their mirror class without taking up their second combat style. But let's remember that the light/dark toggle is going away. See new players don't have the option to pick their mirror force class as they won't have dark/light 5 yet. And without that toggle (veteran players should remember), it takes a considerable effort to achieve that. Especially if they aren't doing all the exploration missions it could be well after chapter 3.

 

We have the benefit of having all mirror classes unlocked (granted that we have dark/light 5, which with the current system is insanely easy and fast). And if they decide they want their original back, it's not like they can swap again, they'll have to use their second combat style.

 

Edited December 4, 2021 by CrazyScruffy

[CrazyScruffy]

What about tech classes?

Will my (max level, ch. 3 finished) gunslinger be able to switch to the mirror sniper if she has any dark points (and/or the dark/light 5 achievement)? if not, why not?

And will my scounrdel who is lvl 75 but still deep in her class/origin story be able to switch the first combat style to its mirror operative upon completing ch. 3? if not, why not?

 

Tech classes were never designed to be able to swap to their mirror class as force users were going to be able to. its more for a lore reason force classes can

[mike_carton]

At this point it really feels like y'all should just release a short story update and leave everything else in the oven so we can have a more robust expansion with the features that so many people were looking forward to.

 

I couldn't have said it any better. Certainly not in such civilized language. I'm that disappointed.

 

Just the Combat Styles thing with its Force vs Tech, its specially-constructed and unnecessary requirements, first-vs-second combat style differences, exceptions and so on takes 2 pages to describe and leaves people confused and with more questions.

 

The leaders of most of the guilds my characters are in are looking at substantial loss of members, including some progression raiders; so, they're reduced to cheer-leading the changes to keep the morale up.

[Raylornt]

Hi all,

 

For transparency and context for those who are reading the dev tracker only, the choosing your Combat Style for existing characters text being referenced in this thread is from the Separating Story and Gameplay article that was published a while go.

 

There's been an update to this. We originally planned to allow players to switch their primary combat style with existing characters upon loading up 7.0, unfortunately we discovered some technical hurdles that will prevent us from supporting that. So upon login, existing characters will maintain their existing Advanced Class, which will be converted into their first Combat Style. And eligible players will still be free to choose their second Combat Style.

 

The original article has been updated to reflect this.

 

Question on this, will they keep the terms first play style and second or will it simply be active and inactive? I think in swtoristas video a week or two ago it was referred to as primary play style and secondary? It’s a small thing but if I want an existing characters “secondary” play style to be his main class now calling it secondary is a bit odd and this roll out compared to the original announcement is already a bit confusing to me as is.

[CrazyScruffy]

Question on this, will they keep the terms first play style and second or will it simply be active and inactive? I think in swtoristas video a week or two ago it was referred to as primary play style and secondary? It’s a small thing but if I want an existing characters “secondary” play style to be his main class now calling it secondary is a bit odd and this roll out compared to the original announcement is already a bit confusing to me as is.

 

I honestly can't wrap my mind around your question. But I'll try.

 

If you are a sub you have access to TWO Combat Styles. Whichever one you want to the "main" one is up to you. whether that is the first or second. I think you're confusing yourself to be honest

[mike_carton]

in your post you talk about discussion on discord but we would like to know on which discord and with whom because it is very obscure

 

SWTOR Theorycrafters

 

The additional information available there - for example, the changes to combat logging and combat replay - gobsmacked me. Samples:

 

Loadouts:

BioChris — 11/29/2021

No, Loadouts are not 'extra inventory'. They are effectively presets to allow you to swap between different configurations easily. So what you described is accurate: If you switch from one gear set in Loadout 1 to another gear set in Loadout 2, the gear from Loadout 1 would go back into your inventory. And Loadouts do not currently interact with any other systems (banks, Legacy, etc). You need to have the gear on your character in order for it to be used/equipped.

 

There is this headscratcher:

BioChris — 21 Nov 2021 03:33

MM [FPs] will be level synced to 75. vet I believe will be lvl 80

 

Combat logging and replay. (Click the [PLAY] button at bottom-left of the page.)

BioChris — 09/04/2021

...See example here from ESO: https://www.esologs.com/zone/rankings/10#metric=score&partition=10&boss=2007

Edited December 4, 2021 by mike_carton

[BHWolf]

Question on this, will they keep the terms first play style and second or will it simply be active and inactive? I think in swtoristas video a week or two ago it was referred to as primary play style and secondary? It’s a small thing but if I want an existing characters “secondary” play style to be his main class now calling it secondary is a bit odd and this roll out compared to the original announcement is already a bit confusing to me as is.

 

To answer your question, only subscribers will be able to swap between combat styles. A FTP player will only have one combat style per character.

To ensure that you have the preferred combat style for when you go to FTP, make sure the last time you play that character as a subscriber, you log out with whichever combat style you are going to want to use as FTP. It does not matter if it was your first or second combat style choice, just what is last activated.

 

I hope that helps.

[ralphieceaser]

I am still not 100% not confused...

 

So, my light V Sith assassin (who is max level, end game) will upon logging in for the first time after 7.0 hits be able to change her first combat style (assassin) to the mirror aka shadow should she wish to? correct?

According to this, yes. For the option to even appear you just need to be certain you are light side.

So all pre-7.0 Force characters that have opposite alignment to their current class will be given the option to swap their primary combat style to the opposite aligned equivalent upon logging in post-7.0.

 

This means if you are a Jedi Knight or Jedi Consular, and have at least 1 Dark Side point away from 0, you will be given this choice. Likewise, if you are a Sith Warrior or Sith Inquisitor, and have at least 1 Light Side point away from 0, you will be given this choice. This will be regardless of any Legacy unlocks or otherwise. Once that character is in the game, and the swap choice has been made or refused, the rules as described above will still apply.

[winpersec]

Chris was even the one saying that they don't want to have a discord server and then goes and says things on discord that he should be saying on the forums so we can use the dev tracker.

 

Basically, you are not the one to dictate Chris what to do on his spare time. He is not saying anything officially, nor that is important, as all important information is being posted here, on forums. Maybe it's not the amount and frequency you want, but every adult human being knows that sometimes it's better to curb their desires and feast on a smaller things.

 

It's getting really frustrating how poorly managed this launch is and it's not even out yet.

 

It's getting REALLY frustrating to see how you and people alike you are being confident in your total and absolute moral superiority upon the other parts of the community and aswell the dev team.

[mike_carton]

Basically, you are not the one to dictate Chris what to do on his spare time. He is not saying anything officially, nor that is important, as all important information is being posted here, on forums.

 

None of the above is true. Not in the least. I'm a lurker on that Discord server and posted earlier - just today on this very thread - with examples of information there that is not in the forums. Worse, Chris engages with dataminers and datamined information on Discord even though it is verboten on these "official" forums.

 

It's getting REALLY frustrating to see how you and people alike you are being confident in your total and absolute moral superiority upon the other parts of the community and aswell the dev team.

 

Why? Are you a BW employee, employee's family member, or an Influencer? Why is it frustrating to you? I can understand disagreement on your part as a regular player, but frustration?!

Edited December 5, 2021 by mike_carton

[TalLura]

Is that really how it will be? That seems insane. Essentially players are "punished" for having Alignment cheevos then. I can understand there being some technical issues with switching primary combat styles, but I don't see how it could possibly be the case that the Alignment cheevos present a technical problem. That means it must be intentional, but then I have no idea why they would do such a thing. They seemingly just want people to reroll new characters.

 

I think its because they are removing D v Light and making it harder to gain dark or light points outside story or diplomacy, so this feels like a compromise they decided was fair.

but i agree its bit crap . but i think its because if you dont already have unlocked Dv/Lv when you come to making that combat choice for second you will only have your faction there. in past it was easy to spam light or dark points in flashpoints and star fighter etc but now that we will no longer be able to do that, and they are admitting that in a way

Edited December 5, 2021 by TalLura

[phalczen]

Because it's bloody scary to see someone being as deluded.

It's hardly a delusion to have the expectation that information germane to the entire playerbase should be communicated via the official forums.

[TrixxieTriss]

His. Personal. Time.

 

Just wanted to ask, is it really his personal time when he’s posting during work hours? And yes I know he also posts outside of work hours, but how are players to tell if he’s working late and what’s personal vs professional?

 

If he wants to post in personal time, shouldn’t he be incognito instead of everyone knowing he is lead designer in swtor? Of course that would make what he posts, have no more weight than anyone else on discord.

 

See you can’t argue it both ways and say people can’t get upset when he releases info on Discord and not the forums. Because which ever way you look at it, he is still representing BioWare by default because people know who he is.

 

Therefore his public opinions and him posting information on any social media that has to do with SWToR, while not officially sanctioned by BioWare, is still representative of BioWare. It’s why he often says I can’t tell you X or Y because that would cross a line.

 

If he was incognito, he could post what ever he wanted in his spare time because he wouldn’t be linked as the swtor design lead.

[TrixxieTriss]

Hi everyone,

 

I wanted to take a moment to address some points/thoughts I believe will be made in response to Chris' post, so I hope you'll allow me to have a more heart to heart moment with you all. I recognize how late this post is being made and what day it's being made on. This is not an attempt to bury information or hope that no one will notice it. We were working on reading the various posts about this topic, taking in the feedback, and making sure that the message was concise and clear. I recommended the post be made today rather than let the weekend pass because we felt this clarification would be beneficial to players reading it.

 

I know how passionate this player base is because you all love this game very much. And I know that difference of opinion tends to happen as does debate, especially on these forums. I just ask that you continue to be civil with one another and also with us and be mindful of the guidelines of these forums. Thank you.

 

Best,

Jackie

 

Hi Jackie, it’s great that you were able to get this pushed out before the weekend. I can only imagine how bad the forums might have become if it had been left till next week.

 

Might I suggest though, that next time you guys post something this critical, you do it straight into the general section for proper transparency.

 

If people don’t look at Dev tracker (which many don’t), this sort of information is missed. Then people still argue and get confused in the general section. Which leads to people needing to make extra threads or copy quote this info over there so it’s more visible.

 

Anyway, hope you have a good weekend and thanks for the follow ups

Edited December 5, 2021 by TrixxieTriss