Plz Don't Assume My Combat Style...

[TrixxieTriss]

So Chris has clarified on the Discord again, so I'm going to paste that here so that the information is all in one place. Jackie, if any of this information is incorrect or being misinterpreted, please let us know:

 

 

 

And then this exchange:

 

 

 

So again, my understanding, based on the way Chris has explained it, is that existing characters that are past their class story chapter 3 and/or have the Dark/Light legacy achievements will not have the ability to swap to their mirror combat style.

 

It seems Chris is contradicting what’s being posted here. This is why all official discussions should be on the forums.

I hope JackieKO can sort this out and maybe make an official post in the general forum section so EVERYONE can see it and get an understanding.

[LordCamTheGreat]

It seems Chris is contradicting what’s being posted here. This is why all official discussions should be on the forums.

I hope JackieKO can sort this out and maybe make an official post in the general forum section so EVERYONE can see it and get an understanding.

 

That or could we please finally maybe get an official discord server with specific channels that only the devs can post in to address questions. Having more active dev-player interactions would be very beneficial.

 

This is pretty disappointing overall and while not the end of the world, is just another thing added to the list of cons about 7.0 for existing players. I would hope that we are given a third combat style in the not too distant future to compensate for this (especially if and when new combat styles are indeed added).

 

Also does anyone who is in the discord that Chris is posting in have a link? I keep hearing about this discord that he posts in despite it not being official and we were even told on the forums that we don't have an official discord because the forums are supposed to be the official point of contact...I'm confused.

[Cedia]

So Chris has clarified on the Discord again, so I'm going to paste that here so that the information is all in one place. Jackie, if any of this information is incorrect or being misinterpreted, please let us know:

 

 

 

And then this exchange:

 

 

 

So again, my understanding, based on the way Chris has explained it, is that existing characters that are past their class story chapter 3 and/or have the Dark/Light legacy achievements will not have the ability to swap to their mirror combat style.

 

I am very confused.

 

In my case, I have a few Force users who I leveled to 75 by doing repeatable missions so I could save their storylines for later. I have had Light V and Dark V unlocked in my legacy for about eight years. Will I be able to change them to their mirrors or not?

[KovaGilrissian]

Ok now that just adds to the confusion.

 

Does that mean that if a force user wants to change to the mirror playstyle they ll only be given the chance at the end of chapter 3? And as long as they have DARK/LIGHT V?

 

Because based on that it sounds like that change initial to mirror is not available past chapter 3 and will only be available for new characters or characters who have yet to finish the original story chapter 3, so quite limited.

 

Hell some might get screwed by not having DARK/LIGHT V full by then and not noticing, because I am pretty sure the operative SIS double agent ending also required you to be at some level of light alignment to be available, had to make a new operative simply because of that xD

 

This lack of clarity will lead to some issues when people realize they arent able to change their force user's initial combat style and without reading choose the mirror as second combat style and then complain that they wasted their 2nd combat style slot.

 

 

Again my main point was that the bioware post everyone linked could be interpreted either way so that excludes it as evidence for either argument, and the most crucial evidence we had was on the PTS, where they by design allowed force users to change but only their mirror instead of anything. Hence why the evidence suggested of intended developer limitation otherwise why wouldnt have included that extremely specific limitation.

 

So what can existing old character can do? can they even do anything at all lmao? because it's safe to assume that a tons of people have completed Chapter 3 class story since a long time ago..

Man, this update is definitely going to be a shi*show.

Edited December 3, 2021 by KovaGilrissian

[The-Kaitou-Kid]

I am very confused.

 

In my case, I have a few Force users who I leveled to 75 by doing repeatable missions so I could save their storylines for later. I have had Light V and Dark V unlocked in my legacy for about eight years. Will I be able to change them to their mirrors or not?

 

No. Because you already have Light V and Dark V unlocked, you have access to all combat styles in character creation, so your existing Force characters have to stick with their original combat styles for the primary and can only access their mirrors via the secondary combat style.

 

So what can existing old character can do? can they even do anything at all lmao? because it's safe to assume that a tons of people have completed Chapter 3 class story since a long time ago..

Man, this update is definitely going to be a shi*show.

 

You still have the secondary combat style to pick, old characters that have all of these milestones met already can pick from all of them right away for that secondary style. You just can't swap your primary style, so if you want to have Sorc abilities on your DS Sage, you can't also have Assassin as your secondary combat style without creating a new character with the Consular origin story, and Sorc/Assassin combat styles from the getgo.

[Floplag]

I’m sure their original intent was to try it. But when they discovered months ago that it wasn’t going to work, they should have told us.

The fact they pushed ahead and used a lot of resources just for new players only emphasises my belief that they expect to get a bunch of new players from somewhere.

 

On that i agree, they should have told us sooner and been more transparent.

AS for the conspiracies, who knows.

[DarthNigyl]

Hi all,

 

For transparency and context for those who are reading the dev tracker only, the choosing your Combat Style for existing characters text being referenced in this thread is from the Separating Story and Gameplay article that was published a while go.

 

There's been an update to this. We originally planned to allow players to switch their primary combat style with existing characters upon loading up 7.0, unfortunately we discovered some technical hurdles that will prevent us from supporting that. So upon login, existing characters will maintain their existing Advanced Class, which will be converted into their first Combat Style. And eligible players will still be free to choose their second Combat Style.

 

The original article has been updated to reflect this.

Hello,

 

I am disappointed, but must live with it.

 

Thanks,

Nigyl

[Gwena]

Oh for Force sake, this is getting ridiculous. Technically, what Chris says in discord doesn't contradict what JackieKo posted here, but if Chris is indeed correct, then what JackieKo posted is lacking vital information in regards to restrictions/requirements.

 

Pretty please, JackieKo, can you clarify this for us?

 

p.s. thank you very much to the folks posting in and mentioning the discord stuff! I'm not on the discord so I would never have seen it.

[ralphieceaser]

Technically, what Chris says in discord doesn't contradict what JackieKo posted here, but if Chris is indeed correct, then what JackieKo posted is lacking vital information in regards to restrictions/requirements.

 

Pretty please, JackieKo, can you clarify this for us?

 

Yeah, it looks like people will be able to change to mirror as force users but under very specific requirements which can limit the overall cases, if the choice is only available at the end of act 3 with a DARK/LIGHT V prerequisite that suggests people who have passed that point wont be able to change their initial combat style to mirror.

[Damask_Rose]

Of course they knew. I'm just wondering what else they haven't told us that they already know about and are intentionally remaining silent on, and will leave up to us to have to discover for ourselves when 7.0 launches.

 

Off hand I'm going to guess there will be problems with loadouts and weapons in the outfit designer. Neither were finished and available to test on the PTS.

[TrixxieTriss]

On that i agree, they should have told us sooner and been more transparent.

AS for the conspiracies, who knows.

 

I lost my trust in them when they relocated the west coast server to the east coast and didn’t announce it till after the fact. That burnt me so hard that I’ll never fully trust anything they say again. That’s why I think they knew all alone it was long shot they could get it to work on old characters and why I’m convinced this expansion is aimed only at new players.

You don’t need a conspiracy when BioWares own actions speak louder than words do.

Edited December 3, 2021 by TrixxieTriss

[TrixxieTriss]

Off hand I'm going to guess there will be problems with loadouts and weapons in the outfit designer. Neither were finished and available to test on the PTS.

 

100% this ^^

 

It will either be buggy as hell or they will have postponed the changes till 7.1

[Cedia]

No. Because you already have Light V and Dark V unlocked, you have access to all combat styles in character creation, so your existing Force characters have to stick with their original combat styles for the primary and can only access their mirrors via the secondary combat style.

 

 

 

You still have the secondary combat style to pick, old characters that have all of these milestones met already can pick from all of them right away for that secondary style. You just can't swap your primary style, so if you want to have Sorc abilities on your DS Sage, you can't also have Assassin as your secondary combat style without creating a new character with the Consular origin story, and Sorc/Assassin combat styles from the getgo.

 

So basically they are forcing old players to reroll. This deal's getting worse all the time.

 

You know, I wouldn't have such a problem with rerolling if 1) I could still get some of the mounts that my old characters use, and 2) names weren't so hard to get.

Edited December 3, 2021 by Cedia

[CrazyScruffy]

thinking about all the requirements and restrictions, at most a new player can only do this twice. Once on an imperial toon and one on republic (and yes obviously only force user class). and they have to be super careful not to hit dark 5 or light 5 on a nonforce user class if they want to do the swap instead of using their second combat style. Because as soon as they hit light/dark 5 that automatically takes away their ability to do it again.

 

And Chris did say in a private message, that due to tech restrictions it's doubtful that existing toons will ever be able to switch (beyond what we already talked about). he said never say never, but don't expect it.

 

So we'll just have to wait for more combat style slots (which we should get once they start introducing new styles)

 

it is a disappointment and yes we should have known sooner. but id rather have the two weeks to decide what to do than wait for 7.0 to hit

 

Again my main point was that the bioware post everyone linked could be interpreted either way so that excludes it as evidence for either argument, and the most crucial evidence we had was on the PTS, where they by design allowed force users to change but only their mirror instead of anything. Hence why the evidence suggested of intended developer limitation otherwise why wouldnt have included that extremely specific limitation.

 

Interpretations can be wrong. and that Post was stating very clearly (along with the interviews and livestreams) and confirmed by Jackie and Chris, that the article was telling us that we could switch our first combat style on our existing toons. So yes we can use that for our argument without rebuttal due to the stated facts above.

 

Now we know that the article is incorrect and has been updated to reflect that. so i really hope you can be happy with - we were all right in our ways. You had the notion of how the system works now, while we were right with how we thought it was going to work. So let's be happy with we were both right, instead of finding ways on how only you were. this will be my last reply to you (on this subject) because I don't think there is any reason to fight or argue our points any further.

[schwartzpedro]

Ok so ,on my current Merc,I cant choose Operative-Lethality Combat Stile even if im a subscriber?

[ralphieceaser]

Ok so ,on my current Merc,I cant choose Operative-Lethality Combat Stile even if im a subscriber?

If you are a subsceriber you will be able to add a 2nd combat style so you can have operative as your 2nd combat style.

[eabevella]

So Chris has clarified on the Discord again, so I'm going to paste that here so that the information is all in one place. Jackie, if any of this information is incorrect or being misinterpreted, please let us know:

 

 

 

And then this exchange:

 

 

 

So again, my understanding, based on the way Chris has explained it, is that existing characters that are past their class story chapter 3 and/or have the Dark/Light legacy achievements will not have the ability to swap to their mirror combat style.

 

Suck to be those long time players who has been dying to be able to use a mirror combat style on their toons for years and were rejoiced by the misleading promise, only to be slapped on the face now.

 

I mean, they could still use a second combat style for that but it's still kinda suck that they will have less access to the game's options even though they've been playing for a long time.

[Gwena]

So basically they are forcing old players to reroll. This deal's getting worse all the time.

 

You know, I wouldn't have such a problem with rerolling if 1) I could still get some of the mounts that my old characters use, and 2) names weren't so hard to get.

 

Indeed. And the fact that skipping/auto-completing story generally assumes the PC makes LS decisions for Republic and DS decisions for Empire makes this all the worse, considering that a lot of people who want to swap to the opposite faction's Force style probably make the opposite of the default choices and will have to play everything through again if they care about the story.

 

I'm gonna hold off making a conclusion about this issue until we get an official dev post here that fully clarifies the matter, but I must say, this is not looking good.

Edited December 3, 2021 by Gwena

[phalczen]

So again, my understanding, based on the way Chris has explained it, is that existing characters that are past their class story chapter 3 and/or have the Dark/Light legacy achievements will not have the ability to swap to their mirror combat style.

 

I think this is unacceptable, to be perfectly frank. It stinks. Its the only thing in the current iteration of Combat Styles that appeals to me. Both my light V Sith Juggernaut and Light V Sith Sorcerer who have completed their vanilla base Act 3 class stories on my legacy that unlocked Dark V and Light V years ago would want to switch to Guardian and Sage Combat Styles, respectively, as their PRIMARY (and perhaps only) Combat Style. I am sure I am not the only one.

 

I still think this update should be delayed until the technical hurdles that prevent any existing character from changing their primary combat style are solved. Bioware, that's the right thing to do by your veteran players.

 

EDIT: Because the truth is, if I can't even change the two characters I would want to, I'll have to suffer through the pruned abilities that gutted my Guardian, and the stinky gearing changes, and the harder conquest completion, and the likely broken Loadouts, just so I can play my characters exactly the same way as I currently do? How is this an upgrade for me or anyone like me? How is this a quality of life upgrade for me?

Edited December 3, 2021 by phalczen

[Bengartrell]

I'm getting conflicting information.

 

Just to clarify, tech classes won't be able to change their first combat style, but force classes will, but only to their mirrored version (aka sorc to sage). Is this correct, or not?

Edited December 3, 2021 by Bengartrell

[SteveTheCynic]

I'm getting conflicting information.

 

Just to clarify, tech classes won't be able to change their first combat style, but force classes will, but only to their mirrored version (aka sorc to sage). Is this correct, or not?

That's correct, except that if the Force user's legacy *does* have the mirror-alignment rank V cheevo, the switch to mirror option will not be present.

 

(That is, a DS Jedi can switch to the Sith mirror style if the legacy does not have the Dark V cheevo, and an LS Sith can switch to the Jedi mirror style if the legacy does not have the Light V cheevo. Meeting the other requirements for unlocking the mirror style will still allow you to pick the mirror as your second style if you *do* have the Alignment V cheevo.)

[AdjeYo]

That's correct, except that if the Force user's legacy *does* have the mirror-alignment rank V cheevo, the switch to mirror option will not be present.

 

(That is, a DS Jedi can switch to the Sith mirror style if the legacy does not have the Dark V cheevo, and an LS Sith can switch to the Jedi mirror style if the legacy does not have the Light V cheevo. Meeting the other requirements for unlocking the mirror style will still allow you to pick the mirror as your second style if you *do* have the Alignment V cheevo.)

 

Is that really how it will be? That seems insane. Essentially players are "punished" for having Alignment cheevos then. I can understand there being some technical issues with switching primary combat styles, but I don't see how it could possibly be the case that the Alignment cheevos present a technical problem. That means it must be intentional, but then I have no idea why they would do such a thing. They seemingly just want people to reroll new characters.

[Pricia]

Oh for Force sake, this is getting ridiculous. Technically, what Chris says in discord doesn't contradict what JackieKo posted here, but if Chris is indeed correct, then what JackieKo posted is lacking vital information in regards to restrictions/requirements.

 

Pretty please, JackieKo, can you clarify this for us?

 

p.s. thank you very much to the folks posting in and mentioning the discord stuff! I'm not on the discord so I would never have seen it.

 

Yep. I got my hopes up for a minute there.

 

I'm VERY confused about what chapter 3 has to do with the FIRST combat style though. It makes absolutely no sense.

 

I guess we'll find out in 2 weeks.

 

But yeah, the list of pros of the update is getting smaller by the minute...

[Farferello]

Okay this sucks, and is still confusing. I made a Knight (Light V) who I paused just before the 'let's go redeem the emperor' mission. I had hoped with the combat styles I'd be able to unlock the Juggernaut style on him so when he 'falls to the Darkside' during that scene, I could keep him as a Jugg for RP reasons.

 

But now this sounds like because he's Light V (even though I've had Light V/Dark V unlocked in Legacy for years) and because he hasn't finished Chapter 3 of his class story, it means he won't get the possibility to swap combat styles? I don't mind if I get locked into keeping Guardian, and having to pick Juggernaut as my second option, but if I can't get access to that second combat style until the end of the class story, then that kinda defeats the purpose of me having made him.

 

That blows. They made it sound like having Light V/Dark V unlocked in your legacy meant that you could immediately change your character upon logging in on 7.0 and now that appears to no longer be the case.

Edited December 3, 2021 by Farferello

[The-Kaitou-Kid]

Okay this sucks, and is still confusing. I made a Knight (Light V) who I paused just before the 'let's go redeem the emperor' mission. I had hoped with the combat styles I'd be able to unlock the Juggernaut style on him so when he 'falls to the Darkside' during that scene, I could keep him as a Jugg for RP reasons.

 

But now this sounds like because he's Light V (even though I've had Light V/Dark V unlocked in Legacy for years) and because he hasn't finished Chapter 3 of his class story, it means he won't get the possibility to swap combat styles? I don't mind if I get locked into keeping Guardian, and having to pick Juggernaut as my second option, but if I can't get access to that second combat style until the end of the class story, then that kinda defeats the purpose of me having made him.

 

That blows. They made it sound like having Light V/Dark V unlocked in your legacy meant that you could immediately change your character upon logging in on 7.0 and now that appears to no longer be the case.

 

You will have access to a second combat style right away with that character, because you've presumably finished chapter 3 on at least one character in the past (which unlocks the second combat style for your legacy). Since you have LSV/DSV in your legacy, you can choose Juggernaut for it.

 

You just can't switch your primary style to Juggernaut and then choose Assassin for your secondary, as an example. That's the restriction they've put in place here.