So I came back because of the 7.0 changes. I get what BioWare is doing.

[Sareeph]

I think I can count on one hand the number of times people had a valid reason to be outraged and it wasn't made better when the changes went live.

 

Not arguing or supporting your beliefs but you may want to rethink your wording at times. We are in 6.x so 5 expansions and my hand has 5 digits.

[Bullyabass]

What's obvious with 7.0 is that EA has renewed their commitment to SWTOR, and given them more of a budget

Yeah, not this, KOTFE and KOTET would have cost way more than 7.0

 

SWTOR is going to focus on player retention

If they are successful in bringing in more people

Pick a lane

 

 

SWTOR is a ten year old MMO and can't be fussy. It needs all types of players casuals/tryhards, PVP/PVE, solo/small group/large group. The 7.0 changes should have focussed on smoothing the painful jumps between these content types and the sheer cliff wall players face moving from levelling content to end game.

 

Instead 7.0 has flipped the table on gearing and skills and made it HARDER to move between content types and progress into end game.

 

The new operation has already been delayed, presumably because developers are struggling to deliver a bottom up rework of gearing and skills that no one was asking for.

[Talon_Sora]

So, 2 things.

 

I get why you feel solo play is being punished. With 6.0, the developers practically converted all the game systems to solo play. At least a significant portion of them. It was needed at the time to keep the game going, as EA wasn't investing heavily into SWTOR at that time. But EA losing the exclusivity on the SW license combined with their failure to do anything with said license changed things, and based on hiring practices over the past 24 months, they reinvested in their one real money-making SW property. It also matters that Anthem fell hard. Basically it left EA and BioWare with nowhere to turn but to reinvest in SWTOR.

 

So 7.0 is the culmination of that reinvestment. The move away from solo play stings for you, and I get that, but they are putting the game back to how it was originally meant to be, but this time with a renewed focus on player retention, which is brand new to BioWare's core game philosophy (before, James Ohlen stated it was preferred that players unsub and go away until there was new content, which seemed like business suicide to me).

 

I was here before 6.0, so the grouping stuff doesn't bother me as much as it would for the people who were used to the solo play of 6.0.

 

But I will give a piece of advice - you will always find that toxic element in ANY MMO when it comes to pick up groups. Its not just a SWTOR thing. And the best way to counter that is to find a Guild. Not all Guilds are good, and I have seen some toxic ones in my day (one of the worst was named after a bed and bath furnishing store), but if you just keep at it, you will find there are some really good guilds out there that are new player and/or solo player - friendly. A guild might be counter-intuitive to a solo player, but trust me, finding a good guild can make all the difference in terms of positive group play.

 

I didn't realize the situation was that bad at EA and Bioware...

 

Otherwise, I might give another chance to missions in groups one day but not right now (mainly because I fear the toxic guild I was talking about might wait for the right moment to ruin the group PvP/PvE experience for me again, I mean, a high ranked member even changed characters just to harass me, I had to block his entire legacy to stop that), however, there's no way I'm giving another chance to being in a guild.

 

Let's face it, I prefer to enjoy Solo content and only rarely do Flashpoint/Operations missions, which pissed people in the only guild I joined and I feel guilds are for people who are mostly into the "group experience" of SWTOR.

 

Also, there's still the problem of moddable gear and mods being unavailable below an item rating of 334 in the future 7.0 update. Like I said many times on this website and others, I'm not happy about this at all (especially since it basically means all that spent cash and efforts in the game to acquire rare equipment will be worthless) and I would have prefered if Bioware at least let people prefering Solo content use "Green quality" mods, people who often play to Flashpoint missions "Blue quality" mods, Operations "Purple quality" mods and for the highest level of difficulty for Flashpoint/Operation missions the "Gold quality" mods...

[ZionHalcyon]

** First of all ... good to see you around again !

 

** I'm glad to see PvP / group players get some needed attention.

 

PLEASE consider what many of us are trying to get across and may not have presented it properly. ( I know I probably haven't ... so that's on me. THAT said ... let me see if can clarify without alienating the perspective / facts into something less that what we are driving at.

 

** Group play as an option or forced issue ?? People can debate the validity of hiding valued parts of the game into areas where many choose NOT to go all that they want to. IMO this should not be an issue. Dumbing down the game so that basic gear works is a REALLY BAD move too !!

 

** The other game mechanics : Some of the changes might be welcomed ... BUT at what cost to the rest of the game. From what I've seen the upcoming changes are still up for debate. I'll make my own decision as to how "GOOD" they are.

 

** At what cost to the rest of the game ? IMO this 10th anniversary could and SHOULD have been a super celebration. Someone could have released enough extra cash to make it one heck of a good time. It COULD have been a real blast seeing a number of things return. So many possibilities and yet almost NONE of that will happen. Instead ... we get what 7.0 seem to be presenting at this time a reboot that is controversial and contentious at best.

 

All in all I will state at this time for the record:

** PvP and group play needed help. No question about it. I agree with the idea that players who enjoy that part of ANY game should not be pushed aside. Neither should the rest of the players be predisposed with such an intolerant fashion as though they were somehow second rate.

 

** Destroying everything else in the process while simultaneously ignoring / pushing aside soooo many possibilities for the 10 anniversary is a HUGE mistake.

 

The game (what's left of it) .. will survive. The CM will keep it on life support at least another year or so.

 

IMO the the story will no doubt be awesome (as well as the art work ... etc. ) . Beyond that ... arguable at best.

 

Hey there! There's an old familiar face I haven't seen in awhile! How goes the war?

 

I get what you're going for with the other stuff but I just have one question: if you were the developer of a game and needed to add more group content and incentivize more group content, but had through the course of 10 years made all the original group content that was supposed to be group content able to be soloed to appease a shrinking player base, and then suddenly had life breathed into your game by way of finances and hirings at the 10-year Mark with a renewed focus on player retention and rebuilding the game on the fly to support models that will keep people there longer, would you take your efforts and develop a brand new group content for the incoming people, even though that would pull resources away from all the other things the game needs to freshen it up for a new modern audience, or would you take the group content that is already in the game and just roll back and rebalance it to be group content once again, which was what its original intent was, just saving you time, money, and resources that can be spent on other areas of the game to get it ready for a new influx of people - which would you choose?

 

I'm not saying I don't get the disappointment of the solo players, but they have been playing group content solo for a long time now because BioWare enabled this to deal with a shrinking player base.

 

Now over the past year they have built up something which looks to be focused towards almost a relaunch of the game, and if I were developer I would want to maximize every cent and every developer hour I could. So I absolutely would rather repurpose content for its original intended use rather than leaving all of it solo and making brand new stuff - because all that brand new stuff seems to take a long time.

 

The developers made the smart move and the right move in my opinion. They are making the game more accessible and more group-friendly. This is an MMO; if you aren't gearing it towards groups than what the hell are you doing?

 

We both admit groups needed help. I just think they did the right thing by returning group contents to group play while still leaving a path open for solo players 2 gear with conquest

[ExarSun]

Rofl...I will be back in a few months to see how well has this post aged. Game population will show.

[TheVoyant]

I respect the optimism, but it just doesn't line up with their pattern.

 

Players consistently have voiced what they want, while you can't please everyone there is a very identifiable group of wants that 7.0 is doing the exact opposite of.

 

People wanted more levels and more story content to go ontop of what is a fairly liked system. Some minor balancing tweaks would've been welcomed but mostly new maps for game modes and new story. That's what was wanted.

 

Instead they're legit trying to wholesale redesign the 10 year old game, convolute the game even further without introducing anyway IN GAME to teach people how to play, with barely any story content and one 8 man Operation that doesn't even come out at 7.0's launch.

 

Not to mention the extremely shady delivery of information where they try to package something unwanted as an improvement in gameplay.

 

I just always refer to the amplifier window fiasco, it was something as simple as a new UI menu/layout, it was complained against non stop in PTS. They ignored it. It went live. Was legit outrage to the point customer service agreed it was b/s. AND they still haven't fixed all the problems its caused. (Still have areas where the amplifier window is you can't click thru, previews, and tooltips remain broken ever since this change for some individuals.)

 

So something as minor as a menu caused player grief. Imagine nerfing everyone, making top end gear harder to obtain, reducing survivability/utility, and then expecting it to be engaging to new players or force old players to redo the SAME content over n over to be back to where they were... Just less powerful.

 

If there was a plan that made coherent sense or they had a track record of success I'd hear you. All evidence points to this being as horrid as the majority fears thus far.

Edited November 11, 2021 by TheVoyant

[ZionHalcyon]

I respect the optimism, but it just doesn't line up with their pattern.

 

Players consistently have voiced what they want, while you can't please everyone there is a very identifiable group of wants that 7.0 is doing the exact opposite of.

 

People wanted more levels and more story content to go ontop of what is a fairly liked system. Some minor balancing tweaks would've been welcomed but mostly new maps for game modes and new story. That's what was wanted.

 

Instead they're legit trying to wholesale redesign the 10 year old game, convolute the game even further without introducing anyway IN GAME to teach people how to play, with barely any story content and one 8 man Operation that doesn't even come out at 7.0's launch.

 

Not to mention the extremely shady delivery of information where they try to package something unwanted as an improvement in gameplay.

 

I just always refer to the amplifier window fiasco, if something as simple as a new UI menu/layout was complained against non stop in PTS. They ignored it. It went live. Was legit outrage to the point customer service agreed it was b/s. AND they still haven't fixed all the problems its caused. (Still have areas where the amplifier window is you can't click thru, previews, and tooltips remain broken ever since this change for some individuals.)

 

So something as minor as a menu caused player grief. Imagine nerfing everyone, making top end gear harder to obtain, reducing survivability/utility, and then expecting it to be engaging to new players or force old players to redo the SAME content over n over to be back to where they were... Just less powerful.

 

If there was a plan that made coherent sense or they had a track record of success I'd hear you. All evidence points to this being as horrid as the majority fears thus far.

 

Here's the missing thing though. The players who voiced their concern are all the solo players who were left after all the group players abandoned ship.

 

So obviously the forums here are going to be slanted towards solo play. That's who's left.

 

From my eyes, it looks like BioWare is looking to bring back all the different fans of the different types of group content. So that's an entirely different group than the one here on the forums.

[TheVoyant]

Here's the missing thing though. The players who voiced their concern are all the solo players who were left after all the group players abandoned ship.

 

So obviously the forums here are going to be slanted towards solo play. That's who's left.

 

From my eyes, it looks like BioWare is looking to bring back all the different fans of the different types of group content. So that's an entirely different group than the one here on the forums.

 

I don't base my views on the forums, its a percentage but a small one. I base it off all the guild leaders I talk to, communities I'm involved in, random players in game, responses to videos/feeds, etc.

 

Engage with people and talk to em, the prevailing opinion is overwhelming negative. "nail in the coffin" is the term I hear most often.

 

Because people are just tired of giving them chances to be disappointed again and again.

 

I've genuinely tried to be optimistic but legitimately everytime I do, they release more negative news in that con artist way. ("Play how you want so here's less options!")

 

End of the day results will speak for themselves but all evidence thus far points to "I told you so" vs. "I was wrong" but I'd love nothing more to be wrong....

 

Simply I don't think the Devs hold themselves accountable enough for that to be the case.

[MystyqeofXev]

Catering to raiders worked out so well for WoW, why not here?

 

There is nothing to suggest either, one, an "infusion of cash", or two, "new hires". An insular organization, hades - bent on plowing full speed ahead with their vision? That I can believe.

 

SWTOR's strength was never as an end-game raiding MMORPG. Story-driven, lore-driven, voice-acted, group-friendly? Sure. (Sorry PvPers. I used to PvP a ton, but, well, you know....)

 

Players will always adhere to the path of least resistance. If the best gear was crafted? Fleet would be filled with people in the crew skill section. At least in the latter scenario, that option is readily available to all.

 

As somebody above said, the 10-year anniversary should be a time to celebrate, get free or discounted items, bring back old items, put items in old raids, and celebrate the history of the game.

 

Instead, they're reinventing the wheel, and trying to be something they're not.

[juliushorst]

So 7.0 is the culmination of that reinvestment. The move away from solo play stings for you, and I get that, but they are putting the game back to how it was originally meant to be, but this time with a renewed focus on player retention, which is brand new to BioWare's core game philosophy (before, James Ohlen stated it was preferred that players unsub and go away until there was new content, which seemed like business suicide to me).

 

If player retention is their goal this is not the way. Only one group is happy with the change.

Solo - will be done with gearing, possibly max new daily reputation and have nothing to do.

Easy group - will be done with gearing, will complete new flashpoint in all three modes, will complete new ops in story mode, will have nothing to do.

PVP - nothing to bring back pvpers or motivate new players to try it out. Rewarding only victories already chased casual warzone players away.

Hard group - they get one operation. Some will buy into this "you are special, we love you" message BW is sending them with the gear, some will not. I doubt they'll see another operation in 2022. Maybe single boss one like TC around December 2022. And I can't imagine this group being happy with new skill trees.

Releasing gear with updates is probably some kind of attempt at player retention but by the time new tiers go live fist three groups will be used to the fact that they don't get top tier so I don't know how motivating it'll be for them.

[ZionHalcyon]

Catering to raiders worked out so well for WoW, why not here?

 

There is nothing to suggest either, one, an "infusion of cash", or two, "new hires". An insular organization, hades - bent on plowing full speed ahead with their vision? That I can believe.

 

SWTOR's strength was never as an end-game raiding MMORPG. Story-driven, lore-driven, voice-acted, group-friendly? Sure. (Sorry PvPers. I used to PvP a ton, but, well, you know....)

 

Players will always adhere to the path of least resistance. If the best gear was crafted? Fleet would be filled with people in the crew skill section. At least in the latter scenario, that option is readily available to all.

 

As somebody above said, the 10-year anniversary should be a time to celebrate, get free or discounted items, bring back old items, put items in old raids, and celebrate the history of the game.

 

Instead, they're reinventing the wheel, and trying to be something they're not.

 

Hey man. Just because you want to disregard the past two years of hiring notices for SWTOR doesn't mean they didn't exist or didn't happen...

[Darcmoon]

Hey man. Just because you want to disregard the past two years of hiring notices for SWTOR doesn't mean they didn't exist or didn't happen...

 

Serious question here but where they hired to expand the team or to replace people who were moved to other game(s) or quit?

[TrixxieTriss]

Here's the missing thing though. The players who voiced their concern are all the solo players who were left after all the group players abandoned ship.

 

So obviously the forums here are going to be slanted towards solo play. That's who's left.

 

From my eyes, it looks like BioWare is looking to bring back all the different fans of the different types of group content. So that's an entirely different group than the one here on the forums.

 

I have to ask though, how are they reaching out to said players who’ve long since left because BioWare effectively pushed them out of the game.

I’ve spoken to some of my old pvp guild via Facebook today and they laughed so hard when I asked if they might come back for the expansion.

If old players they purposely drove off with their indifference and terrible game design are the target audience, they’ve completely missed the mark with the pvpers I’ve spoken to.

Especially as they’ve not even reached out to them via emails or any targeted marketing.

It’s good that you’re excited and up beat about the proposed systems. But I think you’ve been away too long and looking through rose coloured glasses and totally missing all the usual BioWare mumbo jumbo speak they put out before an expansion full of things people hate.

It drove you away in 6.0 and it’s driven many away over the years. When you and others left we had less people once the expansion population bump left the game.

The same thing happens every time. You should be able to remember that from past expansions. We really can’t afford to lose anyone at this point with such a dwindling population.

Why BioWare have decided once again that it’s ok to drive players off is mind boggling.

By all means fix group content and incentivise players to come back or new ones to play it. But you don’t go driving off a big chunk that’s been keeping the game going in the process. That’s just a bad business plan.

BioWare had many other options if their goal was to bring back players for group content that could have co-existed with the current systems.

Instead they’ve chosen to alienate their current players in the “hope” they get more players than leave over this. Talk about betting the house on a pair of nines.

Edited November 11, 2021 by TrixxieTriss

[TrixxieTriss]

Serious question here but where they hired to expand the team or to replace people who were moved to other game(s) or quit?

 

Only BioWare knows that. It’s not like they announce every time a high, mid or low lvl employee moves to another game, leaves BioWare or gets fired. We only ever find out when it’s a key members of the team and even then, not always.

 

So all anyone can see is them posting an add somewhere for a “job as xyz at BioWare”. We don’t know if it’s to replace someone who left or they are expanding the team. Anything else is conjecture.

[TrixxieTriss]

Trixxie, he's a troll. Here's an article to their "new hires". Not only did they promote from within, but, folks were hired for games NOT named "SWTOR"

 

https://www.gamespot.com/articles/bioware-hires-new-gm-after-high-profile-departures/1100-6492889/

 

Zions an old soul from way back. We’ve forum tussled before, but he’s usually not a troll and I’m not sure that’s the case here. This is how we debate stuff. We don’t always agree, but there’s been many times when we do.

 

He’s also not wrong with a bunch of what he’s saying. Bioware have been accommodating the game more for solo play styles and BioWare did drive a bunch of group oriented players away from 5.0-6.x.

 

Where we disagree is I dont think BioWare need to purposely alienate the solo players to bring the group players back.

Edited November 11, 2021 by TrixxieTriss

[Tsillah]

I wonder if these changes have anything to do with the WoW-exodus. Most of these players are going to FFXIV because there they actually have meaningful group content. It can't have gone past the attention of EA/BW that SWTOR has had a sub-par influx from WoW players. I mean there are still some but I bet these changes also serve to entice more ex-WoW players to come here.

[Rion_Starkiller]

BWA has people on staff that do specific types of work, then they allocate those labor hours to whichever game/project as planned. They also probably employ freelancers for certain temp gigs.

 

I don’t think many of you have ever worked big corporate.

Edited November 11, 2021 by Rion_Starkiller

[Darcmoon]

Only BioWare knows that. It’s not like they announce every time a high, mid or low lvl employee moves to another game, leaves BioWare or gets fired. We only ever find out when it’s a key members of the team and even then, not always.

 

So all anyone can see is them posting an add somewhere for a “job as xyz at BioWare”. We don’t know if it’s to replace someone who left or they are expanding the team. Anything else is conjecture.

 

I agree with you but with how insistent he is that EA has increased the resources allocated for the game and that the team of devs has increased because of those hires, he must have some proof of that fact.

[MystyqeofXev]

I wonder if these changes have anything to do with the WoW-exodus. Most of these players are going to FFXIV because there they actually have meaningful group content. It can't have gone past the attention of EA/BW that SWTOR has had a sub-par influx from WoW players. I mean there are still some but I bet these changes also serve to entice more ex-WoW players to come here.

 

Having played WOW, far too much, there is also the "fantasy vs Sci-Fi" factor. Some people just will not play a "Sci-Fi" game, even one with the name Star Wars.

 

Some MAJOR "content creators" left WoW for FF 14. They actually (when streaming) appeared to be having fun, and genuinely seemed to enjoy the game. That is a major departure from the WoW "grind" and the plethora of overbearing and cumbersome "systems". Systems that in SL Beta were decried as confusing, limiting, and just not enjoyable.

 

I assume they took a lot of "fans" with them.

 

EDIT: I similarly assume some from WoW (and possibly this game) when to check out New World. Given the marked drop-off in players (900kl to 400k) in one (?), two (?) months, that is another group of disaffected gamers.

 

You can't be everything to everyone. You can however, offer meaningful and significant options for advancement where the player feels as if they are putting in time now, for something in the future. Grinding simply to grind, siloing gear, and shutting off large portions of the playerbase will have primary and second-order effects.

Edited November 11, 2021 by MystyqeofXev
Forgot Something

[OlBuzzard]

Hey there! There's an old familiar face I haven't seen in awhile! How goes the war?

 

I get what you're going for with the other stuff but I just have one question: if you were the developer of a game and needed to add more group content and incentivize more group content, but had through the course of 10 years made all the original group content that was supposed to be group content able to be soloed to appease a shrinking player base, and then suddenly had life breathed into your game by way of finances and hirings at the 10-year Mark with a renewed focus on player retention and rebuilding the game on the fly to support models that will keep people there longer, would you take your efforts and develop a brand new group content for the incoming people, even though that would pull resources away from all the other things the game needs to freshen it up for a new modern audience, or would you take the group content that is already in the game and just roll back and rebalance it to be group content once again, which was what its original intent was, just saving you time, money, and resources that can be spent on other areas of the game to get it ready for a new influx of people - which would you choose?

 

I'm not saying I don't get the disappointment of the solo players, but they have been playing group content solo for a long time now because BioWare enabled this to deal with a shrinking player base.

 

Now over the past year they have built up something which looks to be focused towards almost a relaunch of the game, and if I were developer I would want to maximize every cent and every developer hour I could. So I absolutely would rather repurpose content for its original intended use rather than leaving all of it solo and making brand new stuff - because all that brand new stuff seems to take a long time.

 

The developers made the smart move and the right move in my opinion. They are making the game more accessible and more group-friendly. This is an MMO; if you aren't gearing it towards groups than what the hell are you doing?

 

We both admit groups needed help. I just think they did the right thing by returning group contents to group play while still leaving a path open for solo players 2 gear with conquest

 

** I'm not sure I'd punish EITHER group.

 

** In the first place PvP and group interactions should have never been allowed to fall apart as badly has it has in the first place !!

 

I don't apologize for this statement. IMO this is a rule of thumb in RL. EVEN in daily household management. I don't care if something as simple as cleaning the floors ... vacuuming, moping ... dusting the furniture, washing dishes, PAINTING ... whatever it takes.

(It should be noted that my wife and I BOTH worked full time ...so we BOTH SHARE(D) in daily responsibilities.)

 

IMO the same thing applies to this game. There are things that just HAVE to be done regularly. Other wise .. well ... we all know where things are at right now !! (Not good) And that is just the maintenance side of things.

 

** NEW material. Man .. this is STILL needed. (aka new content).

 

** Stories any one ? We are down to how many real actual stories ??

 

** Pick and choose ... who gets the help ??

 

** IMO the staff that has been working on this game has had to do so with one hand tied behind their proverbial backs !! It's just NOT RIGHT !!

 

** How would I choose ... I would have started back when it was decided to complete KotFE / ET and move FORWARD instead of rehashing the same content / activities over and over repeatedly until everyone has become so disenchanted that we squabble amongst our selves scrapping for whatever we can to .... (sorry ... getting a bit wound up here).

 

This is why I have become disillusioned with things lately.

 

IMO if SWTOR is really serious about a grand future we need to look beyond the "us or them" scenario. This game (and most MMO's today) needs a broader base (clientele) : solo / PvP / group content of several styles ( raids ... etc) .

** I would have held off on items that require essentially overhauling so much of the entire games mechanics until after the 10th anniversary and use that "NEW" platform to CHANGE the game.

 

** There would be plenty of new material for as many groups as possible: PvP / group(s) / solo and made CERTAIN that as many of the ideas that made SWTOR what it once was GROWN ... not pushed out of existence (as it now stands) .

 

[/takes deep breath]

 

I'm not sure why the situation has to be "either" one way "or the other". I refuse to accept that as a solution. I insist on that 3rd option. I may not be that great at doing 3-D models (I've posted a few in the appropriate part of the forum) ... and even worse at writing stories ( Yeah ... I post a couple of those too !! ) BUT I CAN do a pretty fair job in some other areas when given a fair chance to do so !!

 

... sorry ! The old man is really wound tight right now !!!

:D:D

[Lyriel]

You keep making claims about an influx of cash. Where are the receipts?

 

Yes, they advertised for development resources - were those replacements? Were those slots filled?

 

You claim they are suddenly interested in player retention. Again, where are the actual receipts? There has been no indication they are interested in retaining the player base you yourself admit has carried them the past couple of years. I'm not talking about them capitulating and giving solo/casual players the best gear, etc. I'm talking about simply even acknowledging their feedback and answering specific questions about the new systems (like timeframe estimates, etc.). They can't be retaining customers they don't have yet.

 

As for attracting back other players - how, exactly, are they doing that? I don't mean the direction of the changes. I mean how are they reaching out to those players you claim are going to come flooding back/in? How do those players know to come back (or come try it for the first time)? And what, in an expansion that doesn't even launch with the vet mode of the only new op, is the big carrot? More solo story and solo FP content?

 

You are optimistically speculating, but that is what much of this is - speculating. I mean, more power to you - I'm glad they are getting back players who left, and that you are optimistic enough to return. I genuinely hope you enjoy the game again! But why should your enjoyment come at the expense of others who already are here, enjoy the game, and supported it when you didn't? There are ways to accommodate everyone's playstyle that are neither just keeping 6.0 nor committing to all of the changes in 7.0 as given so far. It needn't be so binary.

[TrixxieTriss]

I wonder if these changes have anything to do with the WoW-exodus. Most of these players are going to FFXIV because there they actually have meaningful group content. It can't have gone past the attention of EA/BW that SWTOR has had a sub-par influx from WoW players. I mean there are still some but I bet these changes also serve to entice more ex-WoW players to come here.

 

I guess it’s possible. But usually a design change like they are doing is decided many months in advance as there is lots of planning. How many months ago did the Wow exodus start. I’m sure it was no more than 4-5? I would expect BioWare started these plans back in March/April at least.

Edited November 11, 2021 by TrixxieTriss

[Tsillah]

I guess it’s possible. But usually a design change like they are doing is decided many months in advance as there is lots of planning. How many months ago did the Wow exodus start. I’m sure it was no more than 4-5? I would expect BioWare started these plans back in March/April at least.

 

You're right, but they must've seen FFXIV already growing and growing and it's the most popular MMO next to WoW. It might even be on the way of passing the current subs of WoW. And what does that game have that this one doesn't? Meaningful group content for one. So the WoW exodus probably only strengthened their resolve

[TrixxieTriss]

You're right, but they must've seen FFXIV already growing and growing and it's the most popular MMO next to WoW. It might even be on the way of passing the current subs of WoW. And what does that game have that this one doesn't? Meaningful group content for one. So the WoW exodus probably only strengthened their resolve

 

Sadly, most of the stuff they are doing is a step back to being a wow or eso clone instead of looking at what’s great about FFXIV and why players are enjoying it more when they leave wow.

If there was more FFXIV copying and less failed wow cloning, then this game could be much better.

Edited November 11, 2021 by TrixxieTriss

[Tsillah]

Sadly, most of the stuff they are doing is a step back to being a wow or eso clone instead of looking at what’s great about FFXIV and why players are enjoying it more when they leave wow.

If there was more FFXIV copying and less failed wow cloning, then this game could be much better.

Well, that's sad indeed but it's sort of water under the bridge. Like class stories that are the best and unique selling point of SWTOR they've changed so many things back and forth in gearing that they can only really change the gearing within that same format because anything else would cost too much.

 

They're taking away the set bonuses from armor altogether and are sticking them on legendary implants. It's yet another simplification that makes it better for them, but then trying to maintain 50 sets with different bonuses of which only a handful were actually good wasn't a good idea either.

 

This game was dubbed WoW in space from the start. I think that hasn't changed too much over the years. Though they did copy some stuff from GW2 here and there.