So I came back because of the 7.0 changes. I get what BioWare is doing.

[TrixxieTriss]

It is also quite possible EA is using the SWTOR division as a tax write-off. (The way the NBA does with the WNBA)

 

It’s not a tax write off if you’re not losing money, which swtor isn’t (yet).

Edited November 13, 2021 by TrixxieTriss

[TheVoyant]

I'm convinced they're sabotaging themselves on purpose at this point.

 

It does genuinely appear that way. Everything thus far about this SWTOR Next (7.0) looks like a trainwreck in slow motion.

[MystyqeofXev]

It does genuinely appear that way. Everything thus far about this SWTOR Next (7.0) looks like a trainwreck in slow motion.

 

Only we're passengers, not observers.

[TheVoyant]

Only we're passengers, not observers.

 

Well explains why we all have less mobility, are easier to kill, and forgot all those abilities at least.

 

Swtor canon: they survived the trainwreck but were never the same....

[Sanchpanza]

I don't think crafting that pales in comparsion to looted gear or gear obtained through "token" vendors was ever even an "indated" philosophy outside of game developer cycles. No matter what MMO you look at the pointlessness of the crafting systems is always a major complain everywhere.

But then again, you can't expect much from people who desperately try to convince themselves that "Games as a service" is "the future of gaming".

 

Just wanna throw in that there are some MMOs with decent crafting. ESO is one of them. It takes a long time to get all of your traits maxxed out but you can craft some pretty desirable gear. It won't be BiS (most of the time) but it certainly allows you to build some nice set bonuses.

 

Sad thing is, it used to be possible to craft some decent gear on SWTOR. Now it's pretty pointless unless you're talking augments or stims. The current end game crafting is stupidly over-complicated to boot. Crafting green parts so I can make blue parts so I can make purple parts to make one item. Pretty ridiculous.

 

Their either inability or refusal to deal with bots has also made it no fun for most people as well; You can garuntee that if you try to put something craftable or collectable on the GTN at a reasonable price it will be undercut within 10 minutes by a page of the same items priced 1 credit lower. By the same character names that have been logging on every 15 minutes for the last 5 years.

 

When Zakuul first came out it was literally swarming with bots collecting materials. I'm not 100% sure that they didn't address that because it helps them sell stuff off of the Cartel Market (Hey, everyone has millions now! Just spend 30$ to buy an item people want and you can make loads of money!).

Edited November 14, 2021 by Sanchpanza

[SaerethDL]

No, I posted it there as well.

 

I'm confused? you are not the same username as the OP. So you stole his post and put it on reddit or what? cause someone stole something lol

[StarLionAzure]

They need to excellently execute the ability / discipline changes right from the start.

[Pricia]

Didn't read all of it but you know what's going to kill the game for THIS solo player? The low cap on gear upgrade items you can get every week. Basically you can do CQ 3 times then you're done. 3 TIMES. Is there even a point in having more than 3 characters anymore?

[Darev]

I think the concept of it is harder than the actual play will be. I saw a video of Swtorista who tested these on PTS, and she was able to fill the new conquest solo requirements pretty quickly still.

 

Did you see HOW she did it?

 

I can fill the 100k pretty quickly on PTS, but I won't be able to do it the same way on my main acct/server.

 

On PTS you can unlock strongholds for free...so take some time and get that done for the 150% bonus.

You have no rep if you create a toon on PTS instead of copying one over from live.

Auto level to 80, use the chapters to skip to chapter 9 to get the story advanced automatically and get your ship.

Get free credits and go to odessen to buy gifts for your companion.

 

after the prep work is done, you can get the 100k conquest by doing cz198...with the rep bonus you'll get around 90k conquest just for those 15 minutes. Then just do a couple other random things and you've got conquest in under 30 minutes.

 

I haven't tried with a copied toon, so it could take longer.

 

Regarding gearing via conquest, I'm not worried about the speed of it. I don't like that they decided to cap the gear rating below the level of what the people gearing via operations get. Sure, they said the cap would be raised eventually, but all the various "silo'd" paths are going to be raised at the same time, so gearing via conquest will never get you current level endgame gear.

 

Sure, in the early days, it was the same way...but we've had since 6.0 to get used to, and frankly...expect, access to the same level of gear no matter how you want to get there.

 

I haven't really seen an explanation as to WHY they're making that change.

 

One side effect of the conquest changes is the encryptions are going to continue to go up in price.

If my 20 per week are now cut down to 10 per week, along with everyone else's...that's a lot that won't be in circulation any more.

 

Any one currently hoarding them better hang on to them

[ralphieceaser]

Didn't read all of it but you know what's going to kill the game for THIS solo player? The low cap on gear upgrade items you can get every week. Basically you can do CQ 3 times then you're done. 3 TIMES. Is there even a point in having more than 3 characters anymore?

Tbh i prefer it that way, conquest spam farm was annoying and pretty much made people do things they wouldnt otherwise do for the benefits of conquest and gave an advantage to people with a million alts.

 

If i am playing a character, I want to focus on just playing that character until I want to try something different, the fact that I was losing so much because i didnt do conquest on 1000 alts was annoying.

 

At the end of the day you are meant to play the character you like because you enjoy their style and combat, not because of the rewards

[Pricia]

Tbh i prefer it that way, conquest spam farm was annoying and pretty much made people do things they wouldnt otherwise do for the benefits of conquest and gave an advantage to people with a million alts.

 

If i am playing a character, I want to focus on just playing that character until I want to try something different, the fact that I was losing so much because i didnt do conquest on 1000 alts was annoying.

 

At the end of the day you are meant to play the character you like because you enjoy their style and combat, not because of the rewards

 

Well technically though, we spent the time leveling those alts, we put it in the work, so it's pretty much BS not to give us rewards when we want to play them.

 

Of course it might not be so bad if we still get SOME CQ rewards (I haven't seen anywhere what all the individual/guild CQ rewards are) but at 100k CQ point for nothing... why bother at all? My main reason to subscribe was for the extra characters, needless to say they'll have to give me a carrot to make me subscribe again after that.

 

Also yeah. I can't see any of the smaller guilds ever reaching their CQ goal if it's useless to do CQ on more than 3 characters.

[SaerethDL]

they are bringing multiplayer back to swtor with 7.0 and solo players are just not having it. I agree with OP. I came back for 7.0 and these changes too, we will see if I stick around. I usually play mmo's to be social that is what they are built for. Sometimes I do play solo though and its a nice change up, nothing wrong with playing that way. But i'm not strictly solo only like some players.

[MystyqeofXev]

Tbh i prefer it that way, conquest spam farm was annoying and pretty much made people do things they wouldnt otherwise do for the benefits of conquest and gave an advantage to people with a million alts.

 

If i am playing a character, I want to focus on just playing that character until I want to try something different, the fact that I was losing so much because i didnt do conquest on 1000 alts was annoying.

 

At the end of the day you are meant to play the character you like because you enjoy their style and combat, not because of the rewards

 

That is personal preference, not a reason to penalize people who play alts.

 

Rule # 11 - Never motivate players to not play your game.

[ralphieceaser]

That is personal preference, not a reason to penalize people who play alts.

 

Rule # 11 - Never motivate players to not play your game.

You mean penalize everyone who doesnt want to play a million alts by making them lose a ton of rewards and credits?

If you want things to be fair, you should never create a style of play that is more beneficial than everything else because that creates people who feel "forced" to do it for the rewards, by playing a ton of alts you have an unfrair reward advantage compared to others who just play one main at a time. You are saying your playstyle should be rewarded more than everyone else's.

 

Dont try to play the victim here. You are just annoyed you are losing your unfair benefits and you are now more in line with everyone else.

Similar to how gearing works in 6.0, everyone gets to have the best gear and can earn it from any content they want, they arent forced to do only one specific type of content if they want good gear, cough cough 7.0 cough cough.

Edited November 15, 2021 by ralphieceaser

[MystyqeofXev]

You mean penalize everyone who doesnt want to play a million alts by making them lose a ton of rewards and credits?

If you want things to be fair, you should never create a style of play that is more beneficial than everything else because that creates people who feel "forced" to do it for the rewards, by playing a ton of alts you have an unfrair reward advantage compared to others who just play one main at a time. You are saying your playstyle should be rewarded more than everyone else's.

 

Dont try to play the victim here. You are just annoyed you are losing your unfair benefits and you are now more in line with everyone else.

Similar to how gearing works in 6.0, everyone gets to have the best gear and can earn it from any content they want, they arent forced to do only one specific type of content if they want good gear, cough cough 7.0 cough cough.

 

There is no wall, except time, preventing you from having alts. Multiple alts. Hades, you can do the class storylines and obtain CQ.

 

If you don't have the time to play alts, ok then, don't penalize the people who do.

 

YOU have chosen to focus on one character. YOU have made the decision to forego playing more than one character. YOU have made the decision to not play alts and garner the rewards.

[ralphieceaser]

There is no wall, except time, preventing you from having alts. Multiple alts. Hades, you can do the class storylines and obtain CQ.

 

If you don't have the time to play alts, ok then, don't penalize the people who do.

 

YOU have chosen to focus on one character. YOU have made the decision to forego playing more than one character. YOU have made the decision to not play alts and garner the rewards.

There is a wall called not everyone enjoys that playstyle yet for some reason you want it to be the dominant and most rewarding playstyle out there?

Yeah sounds very selfish and self absorbed, you are the one who wants to penalize everyone else who doesnt enjoy playing 20 alts per week, you want to have unfair benefits just like certain ops player wants to have unfair gear advantages over everyone else.

 

You are against equality and fairness.

[Pricia]

There is a wall called not everyone enjoys that playstyle yet for some reason you want it to be the dominant and most rewarding playstyle out there?

Yeah sounds very selfish and self absorbed, you are the one who wants to penalize everyone else who doesnt enjoy playing 20 alts per week, you want to have unfair benefits just like certain ops player wants to have unfair gear advantages over everyone else.

 

You are against equality and fairness.

 

You're more than welcome to create alts if you want to do multiple CQ... what's stopping you? I'm a solo player, why do YOU care if one of my characters end up geared a bit faster? It doesn't impact you one bit.

 

I mean, we're talking about a game that encourage you to play 8 characters but now oh no, sorry, you can really only play 3, I mean if you want to gear them up properly of course. Because by limiting CQ rewards, it will make it proportionally MUCH longer to gear my alts if I only get upgrades for 3 of them a week. I'm probably going to have to retire some of them because at this rate they will NEVER get their upgrades. I don't care one bit if I can gear up one of my characters faster, but I really care that the game is going to make it pretty much impossible to gear up more than 3 characters.

 

CQ rewards limits are a huge slap in the face for people who enjoy playing alts. It's like they don't even want us to play anymore.

Edited November 15, 2021 by Pricia

[ralphieceaser]

CQ rewards limits are a huge slap in the face for people who enjoy playing alts. It's like they don't even want us to play anymore.

 

You are upset you are not treated as special anymore, I understand, people dont like losing free undeserving benefits but at the end of the day, it is a good change for the majority because now it means everyone gets to have similar level of rewards instead of people with 20 alts being unfairly rewarded more than every other playstyle.

 

By limiting QC rewards you have a far more fair system, you dont get to have extra benefits, everyone gets to have the same rewards, that is a good thing overall, if you dont see it because your specific playstyle lost its extra benefits, then you are quite clearly against fairness and equality.

 

I support system that reward every playstyle equally, you support a system where your playstyle is rewarded MORE than everyone else.

 

 

If you GENUINELY enjoy multiple alts, you are still gonna play them, if you were just playing them for the conquest benefits then you clearly never enjoyed alt gameplay that much.

[Jeweledleah]

You are upset you are not treated as special anymore, I understand, people dont like losing free undeserving benefits but at the end of the day, it is a good change for the majority because now it means everyone gets to have similar level of rewards instead of people with 20 alts being unfairly rewarded more than every other playstyle.

 

By limiting QC rewards you have a far more fair system, you dont get to have extra benefits, everyone gets to have the same rewards, that is a good thing overall, if you dont see it because your specific playstyle lost its extra benefits, then you are quite clearly against fairness and equality.

 

I support system that reward every playstyle equally, you support a system where your playstyle is rewarded MORE than everyone else.

 

If you GENUINELY enjoy multiple alts, you are still gonna play them, if you were just playing them for the conquest benefits then you clearly never enjoyed alt gameplay that much.

 

but... it doesn't reward alt playstyle equally. it punishes it, because it takes much slower to gear those alts now. there is NOTHING unfair about chosing to create an alt and completing conquest on it. but for someone like me for example a casual who enjoys alt hopping and playing variety of things with variety of playstyles.. I'm going to be forced to chose 3 maybe 4 characters at most to focus on... or never get to complete conquests on any of them. because right now, I average out 60 to 90k conquest points on these characters from exploring, doing some story, etc. new system means instead of playing at leisure, I now have to focus grind or NEVER get any gear since right now I don't have to do conquests to get gear, I can get upgrades from pretty much everywhere, I can go to spoils of war vendor and buy a bunch of starter gear with fragments, but with new system unless I run group content, my only option to get any upgrades is to complete conquests.

 

so I now have to chose... do I play variety of alts as i do now, but at a slower, more tedious pace because I CANNOT MAKE THINGS EASIER ON MYSELF THROUGH REGULAR GEAR UPGRADES ANYMORE. or do I focus on a few at a time so that best case scenario, I have a full gear set I can throw into legacy bank to trade between characters.

 

couple that with weekly resets that they are implementing so I can no longer keep that flashpoint weekly for a few weeks at a time and just run a flashpoint when I feel like it... and... I don't feel any sense of fairness here.

 

last time I took a break from this game was because they made it incredibly difficult to make any progress on alts at max level. I'm guessing since they ended up changing it to current system, I was far from the only one who felt this way. judging by many and varied comments... I'm still not the only one. I guess I'll just be taking another break until bioware fixes what they are breaking. again.

[ralphieceaser]

there is NOTHING unfair about chosing to create an alt and completing conquest on it.

Outside of the fact that if you dont do that you are losing a huge amount of rewards and credits.

 

To be clear here, I am not talking about 7.0 gearing, I absolutely agree that the gearing method has a problem because not everyone has equal access to max ilvl gear and it is another subject though I see your point.

 

What i am talking about is how conquest works now, which is giving a huge amount of rewards and credits on more characters you do it on. A person who does not enjoy playing 20 alts per week is losing a vast amount of rewards and credits simply because they dont enjoy that kind of playstyle, and playing on a single main you cant refarm conquest so you get 1 box of rewards while the guy who plays alts gets 20 boxes of rewards even though you might be spending the same amount of time ingame, that is not balanced or fair.

 

The new system is far more fair because it means, people who play only one main at a time get 1 box of rewards per week, and people with alts get 3 boxes, still an advantage for people over alts, just not disproportionately huge advantage.

 

And can we stop with the moronic argument that everyone should be forced to play alts to get the conquest rewards? It doesnt matter if it is easy or not, its an activity not everyone enjoys and to lock benefits behind it is wrong, that is why I would prefer a legacy wide conquest with better rewards so everyone gets 1 box of many rewards per week, fair and balanced, you are quite literally arguing that because of your playstyle, you should get more boxes of rewards and that as a concept is wrong because it gives that playstyle unfair advantages. Again, I am not talking about 7.0 gearing since it is an issue, I am focusing on how conquest works now.

[TrixxieTriss]

Best thing we can do at this stage is vote with our money.

If you disagree with the changes, let BioWare know by canceling your reoccurring sub.

There is a section you can leave detailed feed back of why you are canceling.

This is the data that EA and management will see.

BioWare devs can’t hide a massive loss of players or the reasons from EA / management if you leave feedback.

And if BioWare change course enough for you, then you can always setup the reoccurring sub again.

[TrixxieTriss]

Outside of the fact that if you dont do that you are losing a huge amount of rewards and credits.

 

To be clear here, I am not talking about 7.0 gearing, I absolutely agree that the gearing method has a problem because not everyone has equal access to max ilvl gear and it is another subject though I see your point.

 

What i am talking about is how conquest works now, which is giving a huge amount of rewards and credits on more characters you do it on. A person who does not enjoy playing 20 alts per week is losing a vast amount of rewards and credits simply because they dont enjoy that kind of playstyle, and playing on a single main you cant refarm conquest so you get 1 box of rewards while the guy who plays alts gets 20 boxes of rewards even though you might be spending the same amount of time ingame, that is not balanced or fair.

 

The new system is far more fair because it means, people who play only one main at a time get 1 box of rewards per week, and people with alts get 3 boxes, still an advantage for people over alts, just not disproportionately huge advantage.

 

And can we stop with the moronic argument that everyone should be forced to play alts to get the conquest rewards? It doesnt matter if it is easy or not, its an activity not everyone enjoys and to lock benefits behind it is wrong, that is why I would prefer a legacy wide conquest with better rewards so everyone gets 1 box of many rewards per week, fair and balanced, you are quite literally arguing that because of your playstyle, you should get more boxes of rewards and that as a concept is wrong because it gives that playstyle unfair advantages. Again, I am not talking about 7.0 gearing since it is an issue, I am focusing on how conquest works now.

 

Why do you persist in telling everyone how “they should play”. When you dont like BioWare telling you how to play.

Not only that, but now you are telling us we have to stop discussing why we are upset about it because you disagree.

How about you play your way and we’ll play ours.

Edited November 15, 2021 by TrixxieTriss

[MystyqeofXev]

If what other people "have" or "get" in a video game upsets you?

 

You have bigger problems to deal with than a lack of desire to play alts.

[Jeweledleah]

Outside of the fact that if you dont do that you are losing a huge amount of rewards and credits.

 

To be clear here, I am not talking about 7.0 gearing, I absolutely agree that the gearing method has a problem because not everyone has equal access to max ilvl gear and it is another subject though I see your point.

 

What i am talking about is how conquest works now, which is giving a huge amount of rewards and credits on more characters you do it on. A person who does not enjoy playing 20 alts per week is losing a vast amount of rewards and credits simply because they dont enjoy that kind of playstyle, and playing on a single main you cant refarm conquest so you get 1 box of rewards while the guy who plays alts gets 20 boxes of rewards even though you might be spending the same amount of time ingame, that is not balanced or fair.

 

The new system is far more fair because it means, people who play only one main at a time get 1 box of rewards per week, and people with alts get 3 boxes, still an advantage for people over alts, just not disproportionately huge advantage.

 

And can we stop with the moronic argument that everyone should be forced to play alts to get the conquest rewards? It doesnt matter if it is easy or not, its an activity not everyone enjoys and to lock benefits behind it is wrong, that is why I would prefer a legacy wide conquest with better rewards so everyone gets 1 box of many rewards per week, fair and balanced, you are quite literally arguing that because of your playstyle, you should get more boxes of rewards and that as a concept is wrong because it gives that playstyle unfair advantages. Again, I am not talking about 7.0 gearing since it is an issue, I am focusing on how conquest works now.

 

I'm trying to figure out what exactly is so unfair here. one. no one is forcing you to play alts. two no one is forcing you to play alts specifically for conquest. heck, right now I manage to get conquests completed just by playing whatever I feel like, its like a sweet added bonus reward. three. to heck with smaller guilds, right? because this will do NOTHING to curtail the advantage larger guilds get by small guilds where were as far as I know big part of the reason WHY changes to make conquest easier to complete were made? oh, we are SoL all over again.

 

yes gearing is part of the problem but these two issues, do NOT exist in a vaccum. they are part of the same design philosophy and that design philosophy is incredibly hostile to playing alts.

 

so what exactly you get from conquest that you cannot get from just paying a single character. credits? they are removing those from conquest rewards THAT should have been enough of a change to remove "unfair" advantage (and never mind that everything you do gives you credits. even if you are playing one character, everything gives rewards.) matrixes? again those are getting removed because... reasons I guess, never mind those silly people in small guilds.

 

a box of gear? the same gear you can get from multitude of other, non conquest related sources? the same gear that oh wait.. I have to split BETWEEN MULTIPLE ALTS INSTEAD OF JUST GEARING ONE CHARACTER AND BEING DONE WITH IT. my my, what amazing advantage... towards NOTHING

 

encryptions? you can currently get them from other sources and large guilds have been done with upgrading their ships for ages anyways, but this change, once again makes it near impossible for smaller guilds to make decent progress upgrading guild ship, since you need 50 per and in a small guild chances are you are NOT going out there to do DvL bosses as another encryption source..

 

so.. what unfair advantage are talking about here exactly? you. do not. have. to play. alts. if. you. don't want to.

 

you never have.

 

the difference for me is going to be inability to complete conquests on ANY characters unless I stop playing alts. the difference for small guilds giving those weekly earning limits per legacy is going to be that advancing the guild is going to be that much harder. but sure... extra 100k credits that you can just earn through your regular playing anyways is unfair advantage or something.... when GTN is trading items for hundreds of millions of credits... but if its such a BFD, it would have been enough to just remove that credit vendor item and keep everything else as is.

 

but I guess playing alts in a game that ENCOURAGES you to have alts by giving you 8 unique stories that you can play 16 different ways (light side, vs dark side) cannot possible be alt friendly. we can't have that. pick a main and stick to it, you pleb. >_>

[LeMage]

Didn't read all of it but you know what's going to kill the game for THIS solo player? The low cap on gear upgrade items you can get every week. Basically you can do CQ 3 times then you're done. 3 TIMES. Is there even a point in having more than 3 characters anymore?

 

I left WoW when it was (imo) ruined. SWTOR seems to be heading that way for me the closer 7.0 comes and we find more silliness being shoved at us. I don't think 7.0 will outright kill the game, but I won't be here if it indeed does turn into a crap-show.