So I came back because of the 7.0 changes. I get what BioWare is doing.

[ZionHalcyon]

Do you think it does any good to provide quitting-feedback over unreleased content? I think it prob just tells them they need to hype the upcoming content better.

 

This is something I never understood. People ready to rage-quit over something that hasn't been put in yet.

 

And it wouldn't be the first time in this game's history this has been done either - I remember the huge kerfuffle over level-sync and all these threats, and when people actually got to playing it, they realized it wasn't that bad (other than for the people who wanted to god-mode flashpoints).

 

I get having concerns over upcoming content. While I disagree with their opinions, I get the reason why some of the forum people here who want the game to stay the same for solo play and are upset its changing.

 

But the people who get nasty and personal over it are what I will never understand. It may have come off poorly, but that was all my original post meant when I said to someone "your opinion doesn't matter" - I wasn't meaning didn't matter to the developers; I was meaning that the opinion will never matter to me, when presented in such a manner.

 

I guess I just don't understand this need to fight with people and force everyone to have to agree - its a losing battle.

My opinion is mine. I respect that it isn't other people's. They have their opinions and are entitled to them.

 

But this name calling over having a different opinion or getting all mad and insinuating people are liars and some such - its just so emotionally stunted, generally speaking (not referring to any one person in particular here, but my overall time on the forums in my 10 years here).

 

I'd rather all the flouncing stop, and people just express their differences and opinions with their emotions more in check instead of always dialing it up to 11...

[OlBuzzard]

This is something I never understood. People ready to rage-quit over something that hasn't been put in yet.

 

And it wouldn't be the first time in this game's history this has been done either - I remember the huge kerfuffle over level-sync and all these threats, and when people actually got to playing it, they realized it wasn't that bad (other than for the people who wanted to god-mode flashpoints).

 

I get having concerns over upcoming content. While I disagree with their opinions, I get the reason why some of the forum people here who want the game to stay the same for solo play and are upset its changing.

 

But the people who get nasty and personal over it are what I will never understand. It may have come off poorly, but that was all my original post meant when I said to someone "your opinion doesn't matter" - I wasn't meaning didn't matter to the developers; I was meaning that the opinion will never matter to me, when presented in such a manner.

 

I guess I just don't understand this need to fight with people and force everyone to have to agree - its a losing battle.

My opinion is mine. I respect that it isn't other people's. They have their opinions and are entitled to them.

 

But this name calling over having a different opinion or getting all mad and insinuating people are liars and some such - its just so emotionally stunted, generally speaking (not referring to any one person in particular here, but my overall time on the forums in my 10 years here).

 

I'd rather all the flouncing stop, and people just express their differences and opinions with their emotions more in check instead of always dialing it up to 11...

 

Even though you and I disagree with our views of the upcoming changes ... your view on how "discussions" are often conducted on public forums are not entirely different from mine.

 

BY that I mean: I personally don't see the necessity for "attack" others or to run them down or to be ready to fly off the handle in a moments notice or to "get in someone's face" (so to speak).

 

RAGE QUIT .. IMO I've seen some cases where that was what "actually happened". Sometimes quitting the game is the only thing that some analysists get. I've seen similar practices in other industry ( not just the entertainment groups). All too often MONEY is the only thing that TOO MANY business directors get. And all too often closing a failed part of that business is the only real threat that they understand (or pay attention to ) .

 

You and I do agree that as long as we're here right now ... sticking around a few more months wont hurt. BUT .. THAT SAID ... if this bomb shell is released in the context of what we are seeing right now .. the end results WONT be pretty !!!

 

Also: there is something to be said about realizing that reaching a broader scope of players will actually increase the level of participation and consequent revenue.

 

For me personally: IMO the biggest issue is not stemming from all of the changes. It's not about ONE single subject that has me "ticked off" !! It IS a combination of a number of more serious matters that has finally reached a crescendo.

** removal of several key parts of the game with little or NO chance of returning to an ACTIVE part of the game

** excessive (and sometimes game breaking) BUGS ... some of which are still running loose !

** VERY limited amounts of new story ( and consequently) new content.

** Yet (another) slap in the face to solo players ( not everyone who plays solo is looking for a face-roll walk in the park game)

 

*** other stuff that would probably affect me personally ... so no point in posting.

 

Bottom line: I get what they are doing too !! And when the "new changes" (AKA 7.0) is released I'll make up my own mind !! Right now ... It's BW's move. The ball is in their court !! They can and WILL do what they want to do the WAY that they intend to !!

 

That's cool !!

 

They are not the only one who CAN and WILL make choices when the time comes.

[TrixxieTriss]

Do you think it does any good to provide quitting-feedback over unreleased content? I think it prob just tells them they need to hype the upcoming content better.

 

I think if BioWare announce a string of unpopular changes that can be tested on the PTS and verified, then we don’t need to wait for the expansion to pull the unsub trigger.

 

For months, players have been providing feed back on the PTS and on the announced changes and BioWare devs are ignoring the feed back like they usually do.

 

What makes anyone think that our PTS or forums feed back is listened too? BioWare have never changed direction in the past.

 

Which only leaves one recourse if you want to get the message through to management that you’re unhappy with the games direction.

 

Hence, canceling a reoccurring sub allows you to provide written feed back that may actually have consequences if too many people unsub.

 

EA/BioWare only care about money. They don’t care about player satisfaction, enjoyment or even long term player retention. So the best way for players to send them a message they will listen to is one that’s tied to money.

 

I’m also not saying you have to completely unsub for good or quit the game. You can still pay month to month manually or you can play as preferred.

 

Canceling your reoccurring sub before the expansion does send them a message if you provide a detailed explanation. If they actually listened to the PTS and forums feed back we wouldn’t need to be so drastic in our protest.

Edited November 21, 2021 by TrixxieTriss

[ralphieceaser]

Do you think it does any good to provide quitting-feedback over unreleased content? I think it prob just tells them they need to hype the upcoming content better.

 

You can very easily know the effects of unreleased content when said effects have been witnessed in many other mmorpgs and even in previous versions of the same game.

 

But from what i understand you believe the game died because less people were forced to do ops in the last few xpacs so i see your "perspective"

[ZionHalcyon]

When you make an insulting argument, but with a smile... it's still an insulting argument.

 

You get what you give.

 

Oh no! You feel INSULTED.

 

Look at Ole Buzzard. Him and I have both have been on these forums for quite a long time and often have different and disagreeing opinions.

 

Does HE feel insulted?

 

No.

 

He argues his points just as passionately as I argue mine, but because we will handle it with a degree of maturity we have a respect for one another despite coming from things at different angles and having different viewpoints. This is what it means to approach the conversation in a mature manner.

 

To actually be INSULTED by someone else's OPINION demonstrates to me a lack of maturity to tolerate any opinions other than one's own, which means a real conversation can't be had in the first place as a practical matter, because it is pure narcissism for one to believe their opinions are always right, but also foolishness to conflate narcissism with passion, for the sake of trying to win an internet argument because you cannot tolerate disagreement.

 

Buzzard has been able to change my mind and opinions on things before because he approaches it from a place of respect. And he gives respect for as much as he demands it.

 

For those who only demand respect but not give it, from me they will never have it.

Edited November 21, 2021 by ZionHalcyon

[TrixxieTriss]

Oh no! You feel INSULTED.

 

Look at Ole Buzzard. Him and I have both have been on these forums for quite a long time and often have different and disagreeing opinions.

 

Does HE feel insulted?

 

No.

 

He argues his points just as passionately as I argue mine, but because we will handle it with a degree of maturity we have a respect for one another despite coming from things at different angles and having different viewpoints. This is what it means to approach the conversation in a mature manner.

 

To actually be INSULTED by someone else's OPINION demonstrates to me a lack of maturity to tolerate any opinions other than one's own, which means a real conversation can't be had in the first place as a practical matter, because it is pure narcissism for one to believe their opinions are always right, but also foolishness to conflate narcissism with passion, for the sake of trying to win an internet argument because you cannot tolerate disagreement.

 

Buzzard has been able to change my mind and opinions on things before because he approaches it from a place of respect. And he gives respect for as much as he demands it.

 

For those who only demand respect but not give it, from me they will never have it.

 

Good points.

[OlBuzzard]

Oh no! You feel INSULTED.

 

Look at Ole Buzzard. Him and I have both have been on these forums for quite a long time and often have different and disagreeing opinions.

 

Does HE feel insulted?

 

No.

 

He argues his points just as passionately as I argue mine, but because we will handle it with a degree of maturity we have a respect for one another despite coming from things at different angles and having different viewpoints. This is what it means to approach the conversation in a mature manner.

 

To actually be INSULTED by someone else's OPINION demonstrates to me a lack of maturity to tolerate any opinions other than one's own, which means a real conversation can't be had in the first place as a practical matter, because it is pure narcissism for one to believe their opinions are always right, but also foolishness to conflate narcissism with passion, for the sake of trying to win an internet argument because you cannot tolerate disagreement.

 

Buzzard has been able to change my mind and opinions on things before because he approaches it from a place of respect. And he gives respect for as much as he demands it.

 

For those who only demand respect but not give it, from me they will never have it.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Respect and honor to you my friend !!

[Jett-Rinn]

I don't buy that this was done because of population drop...I see more people than ever playing the game...just not favored demographics by traditional MMO players

 

EA just wouldn't hand Bioware a substantial budget increase if the game wasn't healthy. Bioware is developing for the demographic that plays the game and Bioware has done everything possible to appease them, and why shouldn't they...that's the revenue stream....I don't see them going back to a demographic that gave them the finger.

 

They tried catering to raiders when the game launched...Raiders were the only people they invited to the disastrous player summit, they went home and still screamed "TORTANIC" because the devs didn't cater only to them

 

The people that liked what Bioware did stayed, they supported the devs and the business model, oh sure there are some folks that stayed since launch and they trash the game everyday on the forums...the devs stopped listening to that noise long ago. SWTOR has it's audience, the difference than most MMO's is why the game is still here and being supported.

Edited November 22, 2021 by Jett-Rinn

[ralphieceaser]

I don't buy that this was done because of population drop...I see more people than ever playing the game...just not favored demographics by traditional MMO player.

 

Pretty much, I was doing the story on a character that was middleway and I kept seeing people all over the place, then I went to some old xpac planets for datacrons and I still see people doing dailies and stuff.

 

The old world does feel alive for a 10 year old mmo unlike most mmorpgs where old zones are dead and everyone is in the endgame zones

 

I dont get the obsession over muh l33t raider obsession, many mmorpgs only thrive because of the casual population that might have never touched a raid in their entire play time and is instead satisfied to reach max gear by just doing content they enjoy.

 

More importantly bioware with the budget they have will never compete in terms of raiding cuz they cant create hard rates fast enough like FF14 or wow to compete in that area.

Edited November 22, 2021 by ralphieceaser

[TrixxieTriss]

 

EA just wouldn't hand Bioware a substantial budget increase if the game wasn't healthy.

 

Where is this substantial amount of funding your referencing? Have you got a public source you can link here so we can see or is that just your opinion.

[Jett-Rinn]

Where is this substantial amount of funding your referencing? Have you got a public source you can link here so we can see or is that just your opinion.

 

 

I've been on both sides of the fence dev and Consumer, Hiring a new development director, nine new programmers, five new animators, four artist and three game designers just for the SWTOR team pretty much tells that story...games that keep the same budget or less usually doesn't hire new people and living in Austin I know Bioware pays as much or more than most game developers in the area, and the praise EA gave SWTOR at the last investors meeting...it's not a far leap to figure out there is a budget increase

 

But I can't provide you Bank records or Budgetary perspectives bro.

[Sareeph]

The old world does feel alive for a 10 year old mmo unlike most mmorpgs where old zones are dead and everyone is in the endgame zones

 

That's because this game has not put out anywhere near the content other games have. They keep changing the system to make us replay all the old content as relevant. Much easier with their low budget and strained staff.

[ralphieceaser]

I've been on both sides of the fence dev and Consumer, Hiring a new development director, nine new programmers, five new animators, four artist and three game designers just for the SWTOR team pretty much tells that story...games that keep the same budget or less usually doesn't hire new people and living in Austin I know Bioware pays as much or more than most game developers in the area, and the praise EA gave SWTOR at the last investors meeting...it's not a far leap to figure out there is a budget increase

 

But I can't provide you Bank records or Budgetary perspectives bro.

Wait, when did we learn they were hiring so many more people?

 

Cuz that definitely sounds like they have big plans which kinda makes me wonder when we ll be seeing the results cuz clearly it isnt in 7.0 launch.

Edited November 23, 2021 by ralphieceaser

[Jett-Rinn]

That's because this game has not put out anywhere near the content other games have. They keep changing the system to make us replay all the old content as relevant. Much easier with their low budget and strained staff.

 

 

Strained staff?

 

Where the hell did you get that? Are you talking numbers, or some sort of collective mental break down?

 

Either way it's sort of laughable, give the directors retention and hiring numbers they past few years.

 

Personally I like what they have produced so far (ymmv)..I mean yeah they could produce like Blizzard or Zenimax and give us yearly piles crap...but who wants that

Edited November 23, 2021 by Jett-Rinn

[Jett-Rinn]

Wait, when did we learn they were hiring so many more people?

 

Cuz that definitely sounds like they have big plans which kinda makes me wonder when we ll be seeing the results cuz clearly it isnt in 7.0 launch.

 

 

All you really need to do is to filter Austin in their careers...I mean they aren't trying to hire 250 new faces like Blizzard is...but the numbers they are asking for in the positions they are asking is significant.

[CheesyEZ]

I mean yeah they could produce like Blizzard or Zenimax and give us yearly piles crap...but who wants that

that's a first. I don't much care for WoW, but I'd give them the nod in just about every category regarding new content, updates, balancing, you name it. both games are kinda crap at gear acquisition. nothing wrong with the quality or rate of content drops from WoW...at least not when comparing to the non-existent drops from SWTOR (unless your only basis of comparison is the CM/Marketplace. SWTOR wins the space barbie run-off in a landslide).

Edited November 23, 2021 by CheesyEZ

[ralphieceaser]

that's a first. I don't much care for WoW, but I'd give them the nod in just about every category regarding new content, updates, balancing, you name it.

hahahaha WoW and balancing do not go in the same sentence.

 

Swtor even with all its issues is miles ahead of WoW's disastrous balancing mainly because Swtor doesnt have a ton of talents, soulbinds, legendaries etc and classes are mostly designed to work well by themselves. WoW balancing is bad bad to the point the same character with slightly different build can do 60% of the simdps simply because they didnt pick the meta choices no matter how boring or terrible the meta build is.

Not only that, the devs admit that they dont want to be "disruptive" so they refuse to balance glaring problems for half a year or more, making everyone reroll fotm and obsess over meta which technically is a great way to boost profit via token sales. Hell they refuse to nerf classes now because it will attract negative attention so the broken WW monk in m+ class got buffed and it is even more ridiculous now and everyone knows it, but they dont want to make people feel bad with all the lawsuit problems going already so they keep things broken intentionally.

 

WoW is not some greatly designed game, it is very profitable though,outside of the people who are addicted due to years of investment the WoW token aka legal gold buying leads to people who reroll or anyone really to buy gold for real life money from blizzard and use that gold to buy gear boosts which are everywhere, and with achievements locking gear upgrades people are incentivized to buy boosts further, that is what makes the game exteremely profitable.

 

They dont have more content because of design, they simply have a far bigger budget than Swtor hence the ability to make content more frequently, if EA ever decided to give a bigger budget to swtor we would be seeing content a lot more often.

 

Though according to the thread they have been hiring a lot more people so maybe we ll be seeing some stuff soon, at least explains their huge hype over the 10 year anniversary since the content released in 7.0 isnt enough to justify the huge hype they are building up, they are clearly planning something.

[TrixxieTriss]

I've been on both sides of the fence dev and Consumer, Hiring a new development director, nine new programmers, five new animators, four artist and three game designers just for the SWTOR team pretty much tells that story...games that keep the same budget or less usually doesn't hire new people and living in Austin I know Bioware pays as much or more than most game developers in the area, and the praise EA gave SWTOR at the last investors meeting...it's not a far leap to figure out there is a budget increase

 

But I can't provide you Bank records or Budgetary perspectives bro.

 

Once again, where is this information about hiring that many people coming from? Please link it or it’s pure speculation.

Edited November 23, 2021 by TrixxieTriss

[ZionHalcyon]

Once again, where is this information about hiring that many people coming from? Please link it or it’s pure speculation.

 

The issue with asking about this, is that these are things that showed up here and there right around the time and after Keith became head producer, so now you are asking us to use things like google archives to go back and find job postings that are no longer open, and present them as proof, which frankly would be a MASSIVE research undertaking, and who, other than someone who doesn't have a life, would spend THAT much time for what - winning a pissing contest on the internet?

 

No one is going to spend that much time on it, and it has nothing to do with the veracity of the claim, and everything to do with people individually deciding that their time is better spent enjoying their life over proving someone on the internet wrong, especially when the most savvy of us internet denizens know you can do all that anyway, and the person demanding proof may not ACTUALLY be interested in proof in the first place, thus making all the research a waste of time.

 

Honestly, for me, its enough that other people also remember throughout the past couple years (really since Anthem bombed) the developers for SWTOR were hiring a lot, and given the timeline it takes for content to come to fruition in SWTOR (usually 1 year, but Covid delayed everything), the timing of it all makes sense and lines up with this December.

 

If some people want to dispute that, they are free to do so, but that makes them no more right than those of us who remember the job postings.

[MystyqeofXev]

That is one area I'll give SWTOR over WoW, and that is balancing. Yes, it may be a "race to the bottom", where everyone is doing w/in 5% of each other DPS, however....

 

If you remove Utility from classes, then the game becomes strictly a DPS check. (I've seen this before). If Class A does X DPS, and Class B does 2X, then guess what? Class A sits on the sidelines - or rerolls the FOTM.

 

Make no mistake, removing Utility makes life easier on the Devs. (Theoretically). However, given the laughable mechanics of most raids, they had better have balancing locked down tight.

 

WoW had SERIOUS balancing issues, even after they stripped classes of abilities said classes had possessed for YEARS. My Frost Mage got a buff (three months INTO the expansion of 20% to a core ability). Other classes were getting nerfed or buffed double digits to, again, core abilities.

 

Their mantra used to be "Bring the player, not the class". That's pablum when certain tanks are simply BETTER at the first tier of raids, and certain classes are doing 1/2 the damage of others. It wasn't unheard of for those in the world / server fist race to stack the DPS w/ eight of a certain class. (WoW had flex raiding)

 

EDIT: Combine the potential loss of Utility, with the potential for balancing issues AND the troubling discussions concerning gear (not just the acquisition, but how said gear compares to current gear), and there is similar potential for serious player disatisfaction.

Edited November 23, 2021 by MystyqeofXev
Forgot Something

[OlBuzzard]

The issue with asking about this, is that these are things that showed up here and there right around the time and after Keith became head producer, so now you are asking us to use things like google archives to go back and find job postings that are no longer open, and present them as proof, which frankly would be a MASSIVE research undertaking, and who, other than someone who doesn't have a life, would spend THAT much time for what - winning a pissing contest on the internet?

 

No one is going to spend that much time on it, and it has nothing to do with the veracity of the claim, and everything to do with people individually deciding that their time is better spent enjoying their life over proving someone on the internet wrong, especially when the most savvy of us internet denizens know you can do all that anyway, and the person demanding proof may not ACTUALLY be interested in proof in the first place, thus making all the research a waste of time.

 

Honestly, for me, its enough that other people also remember throughout the past couple years (really since Anthem bombed) the developers for SWTOR were hiring a lot, and given the timeline it takes for content to come to fruition in SWTOR (usually 1 year, but Covid delayed everything), the timing of it all makes sense and lines up with this December.

 

If some people want to dispute that, they are free to do so, but that makes them no more right than those of us who remember the job postings.

 

Something to consider:

 

It's really none of my business as to how many employees ANY company has ( not just in the entertainment industry). Let's face it ... I know of at least one company who has extremely deep pockets and virtually threw away the chance of a life time nearly screwing up one of the most successful franchises in the history of film making !! ( NO .. I won't go into details for fear that it will derail the point I'm really attempting to make.) That point is quite simple really.

 

Regardless of how many people or resources ANY company has at its disposal does not guarantee success. Having a game that reflects a successful title with a following does not automatically insure everyone's delight over every decision that's made either.

 

I've seen mom and pop companies go from ground zero to competing nationally with others that were more than 5 times their size with only a fraction of the resources.

 

It does take a lot of determination and hard work. And sometimes it means standing up to a boss who is less than honorable. Make no mistake about it ... that can be difficult and costly at times. BUT when it works as it should the rewards can't be purchased with money !!

 

I've already listed my concerns. I have not changed my mind either. Earlier you asked me to make a choice. My response is still the same in that regard as well. As consumers we should not be forced to make those kinds of choices. IMO this industry is changing. And quite frankly IMO it's also more demanding (as WOW is about to discover). If you want to play in the big leagues then someone is going to have to step up to the plate and let MMO's grow beyond their original concepts from 15 years ago.

 

If BW (just for example) needs to charge for an XP .. then so be it!! (If it's going to be a genuine XP).

 

Final thoughts (for tonight at least) :

** MMO's really are changing. In some regards for the better

** PvP / PvE / solo players / mega guilds / OPs / raid groups ... we're all into this together. And IMO the faster both player and development realize that enough to actually ACT upon that the better off we will ALL be.

 

Yeah ... I know it's a bit of a stretch. But then, again, I guess I'm always looking for the expectations of thinking that way. IMO we don't have to be on one side of an issue or in defiant opposition ... I still want that 3rd option ( and it's somewhat lofty list of positive possibilities).

 

( I'll edit later. It's been one of the most exhausting and difficult day's I've had in a while) .

[TrixxieTriss]

The issue with asking about this, is that these are things that showed up here and there right around the time and after Keith became head producer, so now you are asking us to use things like google archives to go back and find job postings that are no longer open, and present them as proof, which frankly would be a MASSIVE research undertaking, and who, other than someone who doesn't have a life, would spend THAT much time for what - winning a pissing contest on the internet?

 

No one is going to spend that much time on it, and it has nothing to do with the veracity of the claim, and everything to do with people individually deciding that their time is better spent enjoying their life over proving someone on the internet wrong, especially when the most savvy of us internet denizens know you can do all that anyway, and the person demanding proof may not ACTUALLY be interested in proof in the first place, thus making all the research a waste of time.

 

Honestly, for me, its enough that other people also remember throughout the past couple years (really since Anthem bombed) the developers for SWTOR were hiring a lot, and given the timeline it takes for content to come to fruition in SWTOR (usually 1 year, but Covid delayed everything), the timing of it all makes sense and lines up with this December.

 

If some people want to dispute that, they are free to do so, but that makes them no more right than those of us who remember the job postings.

 

The poster made the comment that ea/BioWare had injected extra funding into 7.0. All I asked is how they know this and can they provide some evidence this happened.

It was they, that posted all of the staff BioWare supposedly hired for 7.0. So they should be able to provide some extra info regarding this.

Otherwise what they said is all hear say and supposition that could have been made up.

Also, just because a company puts job adds out, doesn’t mean they all of a sudden have extra funding or even new positions. Those jobs might just be replacements for people who’ve left the company or moved into other positions or projects.

And for the record, I believe the poster was referring to extra funding now, not 3 years ago when Kieth became the producer.

Edited November 23, 2021 by TrixxieTriss

[ZionHalcyon]

The poster made the comment that ea/BioWare had injected extra funding into 7.0. All I asked is how they know this and can they provide some evidence this happened.

It was they, that posted all of the staff BioWare supposedly hired for 7.0. So they should be able to provide some extra info regarding this.

Otherwise what they said is all hear say and supposition that could have been made up.

Also, just because a company puts job adds out, doesn’t mean they all of a sudden have extra funding or even new positions. Those jobs might just be replacements for people who’ve left the company or moved into other positions or projects.

And for the record, I believe the poster was referring to extra funding now, not 3 years ago when Kieth became the producer.

 

It can be assumed that hirings count as extra funding. I mean, unless you think they all work on SWTOR for free. If they hired more people, that means they got extra funding to hire more people in their budget....

[OlBuzzard]

For Trixx and ZionHalcyon to consider:

 

I'm not trying to be argumentative ... but which is more important:

 

** The number of people working on the project

** OR the finished product

 

True: many hands make the work go lighter BUT what is the end product like? Will that product continue to propagate the future of the game? Will those things in the past which ACTUALLY worked and made the game what it is today still be a part of what MANY, no doubt, will be looking for in the future?

 

IMO there are genuine concerns from this stand point of view.

 

NO ... I'm not on a rant! YES ! I am watching (carefully).

 

The internal affairs of the company (to a degree) is not my concern. I want to see the finished product! What parts remain? What has been "done away with"?

[ZionHalcyon]

For Trixx and ZionHalcyon to consider:

 

I'm not trying to be argumentative ... but which is more important:

 

** The number of people working on the project

** OR the finished product

 

True: many hands make the work go lighter BUT what is the end product like? Will that product continue to propagate the future of the game? Will those things in the past which ACTUALLY worked and made the game what it is today still be a part of what MANY, no doubt, will be looking for in the future?

 

IMO there are genuine concerns from this stand point of view.

 

NO ... I'm not on a rant! YES ! I am watching (carefully).

 

The internal affairs of the company (to a degree) is not my concern. I want to see the finished product! What parts remain? What has been "done away with"?

 

I mean - it is a shifting of the debate with what you are asking, but it isn't necessarily wrong either - just because BioWare brought in more people doesn't mean the creative choices will overall be better for the health of the game.

 

That is a separate argument, and I think there are people who really struggle emotionally with the concept that, a game you think is going in the wrong direction can STILL be making enough money to reinvest in itself, OR also be getting more funding due to circumstances it finds itself in, and EVEN WITH THAT, could still creatively head in the wrong direction.

 

Shoot - I was gone for 2 years from here because the direction they took SWTOR bored me, and I burnt out.

 

Despite my feelings, did SWTOR DIE in the 2 years that I was gone? Nope, still appears to be here.

 

And that's always been my point. If SWTOR ends up pushing the current crowd away, it just as likely can bring other people who left back. And from what it looks like to me, I wouldn't be surprised to see SWTOR launched to an entirely brand new audience by this time next year, as a lot of these items seem geared towards prepping SWTOR for console play.

 

And like me 2 years ago, those who hate the decisions will leave, but BioWare may be bringing in other people to pick up that slack and then some.

 

I think some people narcissistically want the game to die when they leave to validate their own emotions (generally speaking), and frankly speaking, it rarely works out like that. Shoot, look at the state WoW is in and yet it keeps ticking, despite losing a considerable amount of players (also worth noting though is they had a larger pool of players from which to lose people from, so it also looks considerably worse).

 

I guess my point is, it's ok to be upset and have strong opinions when an MMO changes things up, even though that is the very nature of MMOs, but really, people shouldn't get mad when someone else has an opinion that is different. Different strokes for different folks after all.