BioWare, GTN prices are insane, its time to do something

[Tsillah]

We know it’s got problems, but Rik was suggesting people only subscribe to bypass the credit limits on F2P and preferred and I find that absurd. Which is why I was being sarcastic about the game having worse problems if people only subscribe for that.

Well you linked the "no credit cap for subs" to the game being in trouble. My response meant that it already is for years. It's not the only reason of course but I'm convinced that if you asked subs to list their reasons for staying subbed, no credit cap will come out as one of the most important ones.

 

And your list of things that you suggest for fixing the inflation problem won't work. I could explain in detail why not but you seem resistant to arguments against your opinions. I will give you one hint though: points 5-7 essentially allow f2p accounts to raise their credit cap spending only in game credits and not real money. That's really bad simply because credit sellers will take that credit cost easily and be able to move immense amounts of credits with it and that's something you keep ignoring with all your ideas.

[BRKMSN]

Inflation is normal and expected. Everything we do in this game can become credits. Kill a mob and loot it (credits). Finish a mission or bonus mission (credits). Complete a conquest objective (credits). Sell stuff to vendor (credits). Slice (credits).

 

To counter the unlimited influx of credits, we have credit sinks. The credit sinks will never come close to being on par with the influx of generated credits. Thus, Inflation will always continue.

 

The theory that the RAF cancelation is driving inflation is, IMO, not accurate. People that were making thousands of CCs from subs were mostly doing so from people that continually sub. Those continual subs are still here and those people still get their RAF CCs from them. Then when you factor in the GS, you have a lot more people that didn't take advantage of the RAF program all of a sudden getting thousands of CCs through GS.

 

The inflation we are seeing is following its predictable path. One big factor that has been around that speeds it up is the gold seller industry. As long as Bioware doesn't attack that problem diligently, that will continue to increase the influx of credits with no credit sink counteractions.

 

The only steps Bioware should make to counter "inflation" is to add credit sinks (I suggest adding more legacy perks that are pricey) and to aggressively fight credit sellers.

[Tsillah]

Inflation is normal and expected. Everything we do in this game can become credits. Kill a mob and loot it (credits). Finish a mission or bonus mission (credits). Complete a conquest objective (credits). Sell stuff to vendor (credits). Slice (credits).

 

To counter the unlimited influx of credits, we have credit sinks. The credit sinks will never come close to being on par with the influx of generated credits. Thus, Inflation will always continue.

QFT

The theory that the RAF cancelation is driving inflation is, IMO, not accurate. People that were making thousands of CCs from subs were mostly doing so from people that continually sub. Those continual subs are still here and those people still get their RAF CCs from them. Then when you factor in the GS, you have a lot more people that didn't take advantage of the RAF program all of a sudden getting thousands of CCs through GS.

I assume that with RAF you mean Refer A Friend. The cancellation was probably due to CM sales dropping because too many cartel coins came from the RAF program and it was hurting their sales rather than helping them and I wasn't even aware of the GS situation.

The inflation we are seeing is following its predictable path. One big factor that has been around that speeds it up is the gold seller industry. As long as Bioware doesn't attack that problem diligently, that will continue to increase the influx of credits with no credit sink counteractions.

There have been exploits that I am aware of that also have put a ton of credits into the game economy. Though that factor seems to have diminished it certainly gave a boost to the rate of inflation I would think.

The only steps Bioware should make to counter "inflation" is to add credit sinks (I suggest adding more legacy perks that are pricey) and to aggressively fight credit sellers.

Yeah, the problem is that legacy perks still cost the same as when they were released. So they don't really work well as a credit sink anymore. As for the fight against credit sellers...well they opened the flood gates when they introduced F2P accounts and so that's a fight they can't win really. Once a game opens up with F2P accounts it's a losing game against the credit sellers who can find ways to beat the system or simply open up more accounts than BW can close down.

 

Do you think that the max asking price of 1 billion credits on the GTN will eventually (or soon actually) make the GTN obsolete for high value trades?

[OlBuzzard]

QFT

I assume that with RAF you mean Refer A Friend. The cancellation was probably due to CM sales dropping because too many cartel coins came from the RAF program and it was hurting their sales rather than helping them and I wasn't even aware of the GS situation.

There have been exploits that I am aware of that also have put a ton of credits into the game economy. Though that factor seems to have diminished it certainly gave a boost to the rate of inflation I would think.

Yeah, the problem is that legacy perks still cost the same as when they were released. So they don't really work well as a credit sink anymore. As for the fight against credit sellers...well they opened the flood gates when they introduced F2P accounts and so that's a fight they can't win really. Once a game opens up with F2P accounts it's a losing game against the credit sellers who can find ways to beat the system or simply open up more accounts than BW can close down.

 

Do you think that the max asking price of 1 billion credits on the GTN will eventually (or soon actually) make the GTN obsolete for high value trades?

 

I used the "quote" as a matter of expediency ... Your evaluations are once again a bit more accurate. Although, as usual, we don't see eye to eye on all matters.

 

I might add:

The simple fact is that there were several items which has contributed to the acceleration of "credits".

** Crafting . I'm going to catch a lot of grief over this one ... but so be it! A little over 18 - 20 months ago (just one example) just ONE of the matts: Solid Resource Matrix was selling for 1.8 to 2 MILLION credits EACH. As of this AM they are now selling for 169,000 credits EACH . That means that they are selling for 1/10 the value (approximate) . I know because i wrote down the values of what I was considering purchasing in order to watch the market before dropping a large sum on larger quantities.

 

It should also be noted that many of the "mods" needed in order to fill slots on gear was not always readily available in game. So most of us resorted to purchasing the "better grades" of those mods on the GTN. However, with the current gearing system in place ALL 306 gear and 306 mods as well as accessories can be gained IN GAME by running FP's Heroics and participating in weekly achievements if a player is so inclined.

 

** Decorations: When the first Strongholds were released I did not purchase one at first. I did, however, see an opportunity to make a LOT of credits (that was a long time ago).

Some of those decos came from the CM ... others from in game. No exploits were used. No cheating. BUT I did notice a lot of people complaining that too many players were making "unfair" credits off of the GTN reselling decorations. It should be noted that those prices were considerably less than they are today.

Some examples of sources that decoration are from:

....* CM

....* In game rewards

....*Reputation decos (it really amazing what prices people will pay for items from this source.)

....*Crafted items

 

** Armor: The most volatile of these areas usually stems from the CM. There are a variety of areas that drive this part of the market. Needless to say that as long as the CM exists it will always be a contributing factor to the GTN and the profit it can potentially generate.

 

** Hyper Crates: Also another contributing factor to some of the higher prices found on the GTN. It should be noted that this also is an "exclusive" to the CM as it's point of origin.

 

IMO none of these are sources that are being exploited. While there were some isolated cases of exploitation ... IMO overall these were not the primary points to be considered.

 

IF people were genuinely interested in bringing down prices ... simply top purchasing things at ridiculously high prices. Yes that means waiting for the item to be posted at a more reasonable price before purchasing. It has been said that greed is what is driving the market. I would suggest that is only 1/2 the equation. The other part stims from the "got to have it NOW" mentality. This feeds the greedy monster and keeps a smile of satisfaction on its rather smug face.

 

No law passed or "restrictions" added will ever solve the issue of the impatient demand for products or services to be rendered "immediately".

 

IMO the vast majority of items driving the market are mostly items surrounding the CM. Even crafted items and or matts related to crafting is less than items needed to play the game.

 

There is a way to resolve the matter. It will take time, patience and determination to not "feed the monster". But perhaps that final resolution is better discussed at another time ... in another thread !

[ShieldProtection]

Damn yo I should post things like this more often,

 

don't you love when people argue, moan and even insult to each other passively over a thread I made days ago and already forgot its existance?

 

No wonder BioWare does not communicate with you lot anymore. Remember the BioWare Social Network?

[Wolvel]

Items are quickly reaching past the 1b GTN credit cap. If people dont see that as a problem I dont know what to tell you.

[TrixxieTriss]

Items are quickly reaching past the 1b GTN credit cap. If people dont see that as a problem I dont know what to tell you.

 

I’m assuming you mean people are using chat to organise trade and bypassing the GTN altogether. Which means they also avoid the credit sink linked to the GTN. And that obviously isn’t a good thing if the best credit sink in the game is taken out of the equation. All that will do is slow the reduction of available credits in the game and allow inflation to accelerate more.

 

Bioware’s next logical step should be to increase the listing price limit on the GTN if they want to keep the trades going through the GTN. Except I think they might be limited by the database coding, so I can’t see them doing that anytime soon.

 

Inflation is natural, but Bioware have created the hyperinflation themselves and the longer they ignore what’s going on, the worse it will get.

[BRKMSN]

I’m assuming you mean people are using chat to organise trade and bypassing the GTN altogether. Which means they also avoid the credit sink linked to the GTN. And that obviously isn’t a good thing if the best credit sink in the game is taken out of the equation. All that will do is slow the reduction of available credits in the game and allow inflation to accelerate more.

 

Bioware’s next logical step should be to increase the listing price limit on the GTN if they want to keep the trades going through the GTN. Except I think they might be limited by the database coding, so I can’t see them doing that anytime soon.

 

Inflation is natural, but Bioware have created the hyperinflation themselves and the longer they ignore what’s going on, the worse it will get.

 

What I see people currently doing to get around the GTN limit while still using the GTN is to sell the pieces of armor sets individually. For example, I have yet to see the new Frontline Scourge "set" for sale, but I have seen all the individual pieces. Combined to make a set, they'll total well over 1 billion credits. Obviously, if people just wait a couple months, those "early bird" prices will drop significantly. To me, that looks like a set that will be selling between 200,000,000 - 400,000,000 in a couple more months.

 

Some people just can't wait. That's why some things sell for 3-5 times what they are generally worth.

[TrixxieTriss]

What I see people currently doing to get around the GTN limit while still using the GTN is to sell the pieces of armor sets individually. For example, I have yet to see the new Frontline Scourge "set" for sale, but I have seen all the individual pieces. Combined to make a set, they'll total well over 1 billion credits. Obviously, if people just wait a couple months, those "early bird" prices will drop significantly. To me, that looks like a set that will be selling between 200,000,000 - 400,000,000 in a couple more months.

 

Some people just can't wait. That's why some things sell for 3-5 times what they are generally worth.

 

I have my doubts they will drop much after a few months. I’m still seeing an increase of nearly 10% per week on some items. I honestly believe that 1 billion will become the norm for much on the CM Armor. The same as when it used to be 1 million, then 10 million, then 100 million.

 

6 months ago I could pick up extra character server slots for under 50 mill. Now they are approaching 500 mill since the referral system was removed. At this rate, it won’t be long till they are also approaching 1 billion too. And when you consider they only cost 600cc, they really are one of the better cartel coin to credit conversions. They convert much better than many Armor sets or decos.

[BRKMSN]

I have my doubts they will drop much after a few months. I’m still seeing an increase of nearly 10% per week on some items. I honestly believe that 1 billion will become the norm for much on the CM Armor. The same as when it used to be 1 million, then 10 million, then 100 million.

 

6 months ago I could pick up extra character server slots for under 50 mill. Now they are approaching 500 mill since the referral system was removed. At this rate, it won’t be long till they are also approaching 1 billion too. And when you consider they only cost 600cc, they really are one of the better cartel coin to credit conversions. They convert much better than many Armor sets or decos.

 

I've been following a lot of popular newer sets the last couple months and while they'll sometimes get listed for the GTN max or near the max, the prices still go way down. If you check a few times a day, everyday, you will eventually find nearly every popular set between 150 Million and 400 million at some point.

[DarkTergon]

I've been following a lot of popular newer sets the last couple months and while they'll sometimes get listed for the GTN max or near the max, the prices still go way down. If you check a few times a day, everyday, you will eventually find nearly every popular set between 150 Million and 400 million at some point.

 

most do go down eventually, the only thing i've seen recently that hasn't reduced significantly were the fractured blades, they've stayed about 600 mill (unless i just unluckily missed them going cheap...lol)

 

 

*just to add, I did a quick search on the gtn, in armour, sets. Set it for 1 mill or less, level 1 only. Basically I got 76 pages of full armour sets, all on sale for less than a million. Plenty of them were decent sets, that look well. Were they the 'must have' sets, no but when you are buying a house, and all you have is a million, you can't complain that you can't buy one beside the billionares houses.

 

Not saying F2P limits are good, bad, or indifferent, just pointing out, that a person can make decent outfits with what they have. When I just look at all armours, not just sets, it goes to 260+ pages, and that doesn't include most non CM items.

Edited September 11, 2021 by DarkTergon

[Tsillah]

I used the "quote" as a matter of expediency ... Your evaluations are once again a bit more accurate. Although, as usual, we don't see eye to eye on all matters.

Very cool, that's the way it should be

I might add:

The simple fact is that there were several items which has contributed to the acceleration of "credits".

** Crafting . I'm going to catch a lot of grief over this one ... but so be it! A little over 18 - 20 months ago (just one example) just ONE of the matts: Solid Resource Matrix was selling for 1.8 to 2 MILLION credits EACH. As of this AM they are now selling for 169,000 credits EACH . That means that they are selling for 1/10 the value (approximate) . I know because i wrote down the values of what I was considering purchasing in order to watch the market before dropping a large sum on larger quantities.

 

It should also be noted that many of the "mods" needed in order to fill slots on gear was not always readily available in game. So most of us resorted to purchasing the "better grades" of those mods on the GTN. However, with the current gearing system in place ALL 306 gear and 306 mods as well as accessories can be gained IN GAME by running FP's Heroics and participating in weekly achievements if a player is so inclined.

 

** Decorations: When the first Strongholds were released I did not purchase one at first. I did, however, see an opportunity to make a LOT of credits (that was a long time ago).

Some of those decos came from the CM ... others from in game. No exploits were used. No cheating. BUT I did notice a lot of people complaining that too many players were making "unfair" credits off of the GTN reselling decorations. It should be noted that those prices were considerably less than they are today.

Some examples of sources that decoration are from:

....* CM

....* In game rewards

....*Reputation decos (it really amazing what prices people will pay for items from this source.)

....*Crafted items

 

** Armor: The most volatile of these areas usually stems from the CM. There are a variety of areas that drive this part of the market. Needless to say that as long as the CM exists it will always be a contributing factor to the GTN and the profit it can potentially generate.

 

** Hyper Crates: Also another contributing factor to some of the higher prices found on the GTN. It should be noted that this also is an "exclusive" to the CM as it's point of origin.

 

IMO none of these are sources that are being exploited. While there were some isolated cases of exploitation ... IMO overall these were not the primary points to be considered.

 

IF people were genuinely interested in bringing down prices ... simply top purchasing things at ridiculously high prices. Yes that means waiting for the item to be posted at a more reasonable price before purchasing. It has been said that greed is what is driving the market. I would suggest that is only 1/2 the equation. The other part stims from the "got to have it NOW" mentality. This feeds the greedy monster and keeps a smile of satisfaction on its rather smug face.

 

No law passed or "restrictions" added will ever solve the issue of the impatient demand for products or services to be rendered "immediately".

 

IMO the vast majority of items driving the market are mostly items surrounding the CM. Even crafted items and or matts related to crafting is less than items needed to play the game.

 

There is a way to resolve the matter. It will take time, patience and determination to not "feed the monster". But perhaps that final resolution is better discussed at another time ... in another thread !

You make one BIG mistake with the examples you give: none of those add credits to the economy. Those are just credits changing hands between players but the credits have to be created by players in the first place.

 

BRKMSN summarised it well:

Inflation is normal and expected. Everything we do in this game can become credits. Kill a mob and loot it (credits). Finish a mission or bonus mission (credits). Complete a conquest objective (credits). Sell stuff to vendor (credits). Slice (credits).

Notice how he doesn't mention crafting nor CM items. That's because credits are not generated by trade either direct or via the gtn, in fact every transaction on the GTN takes credits out of the economy with the tax that you pay for transactions. It just redistributes credits that have been created by the things that BRKMSN mentions.

 

It seem like a lot of people do not understand this, but the problem is where credits come from and how easy it is to create those credits.

 

This creation of credits vs the credit sinks is way out of balance and as BRKMSN rightfully said a game will have inflation naturally because the credit sinks will never be enough to keep up with the credits being created, but the difference between them is particularly high in SWTOR recently and that's one reason prices have risen with leaps and bounds.

 

Another thing that will drive up prices is supply and demand. A smaller group of people will get very rich from the GTN either with selling CM items or craftables. Powertrading is a strong factor in that. But, this doesn't create credits, it just redistributes the credits that are in the economy. And if enough people have tons of credits then more people can afford the prices on the GTN and the prices will just get higher. It would take a massive supply of CM items that would make prices go down. I mean look at the bronze armor sets that are on the GTN...you can get them for really cheap still in spite of the inflation. That's because the supply is high and the demand is low.

 

What I do wonder about is the limit of 1 billion on the GTN for the asking price. Credits will continue to devaluate and people will want to sell CM items for over 1 billion...and then we will see trading outside of the GTN increase. Now the problem with that is that it bypasses the GTN tax and that will increase inflation again. I wonder if BW is letting things go out of control on purpose and create the situation where credits are basically a non-desirable currency.

 

Because at some point it will get to a situation that resembles some periods in our society where you had to pay millions of real currency to buy a loaf of bread. So people in other countries wouldn't touch that currency and banks would stop buying it etc. Now this is important because you can see Cartel Coins as a foreign currency and when the credit value is extremely low then people would stop trading CM items for credits. So that could lead to a shortage of CM items on the GTN and force people to buy them themselves...with real money. I think we're well on the way to get to that point.

[Nortumberland]

Don't get the point of arguing tbh. TC complains that, as a F2P, he can't afford outfits, sold on GTN, he NEEDS to play a game, stating one can't earn creds in game w/o real $. This is laughable. If it's crafted gear, why not craft it? If it's a rare world drop, why not farm it? A LOT of stuff is easily accassable w/o even millions. It's just a question of time and effort put into it. But eh, it requires more than whining on a forum right? In terms of CM items, be glad there is a way to purchase them at all, avoiding CC, thanks to ppl who spend their real money. I'd rather farm those 400mil and get the armor I want, than spend cash/gather CC for weeks.

You can't adapt the economy for both Subbers and F2P. Contributors should get adeqate advantages to compensate, while F2P should get the minimum comfort with motivation to contribute too. Pure logic. The only solutions would be romoving the sub option completely and make SWTOR a full-time fremium abomination with bazilions of paywalls and lootboxes. No, thanks.

Edited September 11, 2021 by Nortumberland

[TrixxieTriss]

Another thing that will drive up prices is supply and demand. A smaller group of people will get very rich from the GTN either with selling CM items or craftables. Powertrading is a strong factor in that. But, this doesn't create credits, it just redistributes the credits that are in the economy. And if enough people have tons of credits then more people can afford the prices on the GTN and the prices will just get higher. It would take a massive supply of CM items that would make prices go down. I mean look at the bronze armor sets that are on the GTN...you can get them for really cheap still in spite of the inflation. That's because the supply is high and the demand is low.

 

What I do wonder about is the limit of 1 billion on the GTN for the asking price. Credits will continue to devaluate and people will want to sell CM items for over 1 billion...and then we will see trading outside of the GTN increase. Now the problem with that is that it bypasses the GTN tax and that will increase inflation again. I wonder if BW is letting things go out of control on purpose and create the situation where credits are basically a non-desirable currency.

 

Because at some point it will get to a situation that resembles some periods in our society where you had to pay millions of real currency to buy a loaf of bread. So people in other countries wouldn't touch that currency and banks would stop buying it etc. Now this is important because you can see Cartel Coins as a foreign currency and when the credit value is extremely low then people would stop trading CM items for credits. So that could lead to a shortage of CM items on the GTN and force people to buy them themselves...with real money. I think we're well on the way to get to that point.

 

I also agree with much of what you’re saying. The only thing I’m wary of is the last part in your thinking that Bioware are doing this on purpose. I’m not saying it’s not possible, but it’s very machiavellian if true.

Edited September 11, 2021 by TrixxieTriss

[Tsillah]

I also agree with much of what you’re saying. The only thing I’m wary of is the last part in your thinking that Bioware are doing this on purpose. I’m not saying it’s not possible, but it’s very machiavellian.

I think the whole gaming industry, particularly AAA have been "machiavellian" for many years. Watch this video if you want of a seminar for game makers. It's geared towards mobile games but a lot of the principles apply to other games as well. You tell me if you class that as "machiavellian".

 

[Odinmo]

I think the whole gaming industry, particularly AAA have been "machiavellian" for many years. Watch this video if you want of a seminar for game makers. It's geared towards mobile games but a lot of the principles apply to other games as well. You tell me if you class that as "machiavellian".

Ah yes, the notorious Whaling video by Torulf Jernström.

Yep, that pretty much sums up the entire ideology of all capitalists, especially those trying to nickel and dime.

The short version is: They don't give a **** about you, just what they subvert you into spending via PsyOp level operant conditioning. This is no secret, as it's also how all power-elites control the world.

Only intelligent and willful folk are immune, and even they are forced to participate if they want to avoid the secondary side-effects from the FOMO or FUD of everyone else, with many of them simply converting and joining said groups to escape direct impact by forcing others to shoulder the burden.

 

Heh, welcome to Humanity 101 by and large.

 

If I want something from the CM, I just buy it directly with CC's.

If it's no longer available, I buy Master's Datacrons and sell them for whatever the "going rate" is, then use said credits to buy the CM thing(s) I happen to want.

Beyond that? I have absolutely zero need for the massive inflationary prices for things on the GTN.

I have already satisfied my convenience expenses, and after that is done, the availability of credits acquired via current standard in-game methods more than suffices.

Edited September 11, 2021 by Odinmo

[TrixxieTriss]

I think the whole gaming industry, particularly AAA have been "machiavellian" for many years. Watch this video if you want of a seminar for game makers. It's geared towards mobile games but a lot of the principles apply to other games as well. You tell me if you class that as "machiavellian".

 

 

Yeah, I’ve seen that before and it’s a real eye opener on how some of the monetisation managers in gaming think.

But that particular philosophy is to start out like that, not to subvert an already established system.

 

I honestly can’t see Bioware deciding to purposely do as you suggested in your previous post. I can see them doing it by accident because they haven’t thought through any changes or because they neglect the systems and it morphs into something unintended.

[Tsillah]

Yeah, I’ve seen that before and it’s a real eye opener on how some of the monetisation managers in gaming think.

But that particular philosophy is to start out like that, not to subvert an already established system.

 

I honestly can’t see Bioware deciding to purposely do as you suggested in your previous post. I can see them doing it by accident because they haven’t thought through any changes or because they neglect the systems and it morphs into something unintended.

Well, you're free to believe what you want and I respect that. Common tricks that they use are limited time sales, withholding availability of items and indeed lootboxes that trigger people to buy stuff and a lot more than they would usually do.

 

I remember them even hiring for a position of a cash shop specialist. Also this game didn't start with the CM. My view is that the "established system" is already subverted and open to more subversion. Do realize that this game has suffered in population but not equally in revenue apparently, because the game's still running. That means that they somehow managed to get people to spend more and more.

 

But it might very well be that they chose a path and this path led to the current situation. I can accept that this wasn't their original plan, however, now they are in this situation, they'll have to make the best of it and it might very well be that this is the course of action that they've decided on because it's the easiest way out without hurting their bottom line. So perhaps it is shortsightedness that got them in this situation to begin with. That certainly is a more plausible explanation than an "evil mastermind".

Edited September 12, 2021 by Tsillah

[RikuvonDrake]

WThat certainly is a more plausible explanation than an "evil mastermind".

 

i doubt anyone actually believes this, its logical that companies want you to spend (more) money on their product, that's just how companies work, you pay money and get something in return

[Tsillah]

i doubt anyone actually believes this, its logical that companies want you to spend (more) money on their product, that's just how companies work, you pay money and get something in return

 

Well, nowadays there seem to be plenty of people who see evil masterminds behind just about anything

[OlBuzzard]

Very cool, that's the way it should be

 

You make one BIG mistake with the examples you give: none of those add credits to the economy. Those are just credits changing hands between players but the credits have to be created by players in the first place.

 

BRKMSN summarised it well:

 

Notice how he doesn't mention crafting nor CM items. That's because credits are not generated by trade either direct or via the gtn, in fact every transaction on the GTN takes credits out of the economy with the tax that you pay for transactions. It just redistributes credits that have been created by the things that BRKMSN mentions.

 

It seem like a lot of people do not understand this, but the problem is where credits come from and how easy it is to create those credits.

 

This creation of credits vs the credit sinks is way out of balance and as BRKMSN rightfully said a game will have inflation naturally because the credit sinks will never be enough to keep up with the credits being created, but the difference between them is particularly high in SWTOR recently and that's one reason prices have risen with leaps and bounds.

 

Another thing that will drive up prices is supply and demand. A smaller group of people will get very rich from the GTN either with selling CM items or craftables. Powertrading is a strong factor in that. But, this doesn't create credits, it just redistributes the credits that are in the economy. And if enough people have tons of credits then more people can afford the prices on the GTN and the prices will just get higher. It would take a massive supply of CM items that would make prices go down. I mean look at the bronze armor sets that are on the GTN...you can get them for really cheap still in spite of the inflation. That's because the supply is high and the demand is low.

 

What I do wonder about is the limit of 1 billion on the GTN for the asking price. Credits will continue to devaluate and people will want to sell CM items for over 1 billion...and then we will see trading outside of the GTN increase. Now the problem with that is that it bypasses the GTN tax and that will increase inflation again. I wonder if BW is letting things go out of control on purpose and create the situation where credits are basically a non-desirable currency.

 

Because at some point it will get to a situation that resembles some periods in our society where you had to pay millions of real currency to buy a loaf of bread. So people in other countries wouldn't touch that currency and banks would stop buying it etc. Now this is important because you can see Cartel Coins as a foreign currency and when the credit value is extremely low then people would stop trading CM items for credits. So that could lead to a shortage of CM items on the GTN and force people to buy them themselves...with real money. I think we're well on the way to get to that point.

 

This is only partially correct.

 

In order for prices to go UP someone has to have the credits to spend in the first place. And in this place something to drive the market.

 

You are correct as far as making or adding credits ... BUT when in game items needed (such as mods) are no longer readily supplied and items such as "armor" designs (which were primarily shells) are sought after are no longer in game but rather from the CM ( and eventually filtered down into the GTN) ... the values of those items will change significantly. ALSO the ownership of those items (BOP or BoE) will also significantly determine exchange values.

 

Please keep in mind that a large number of players have been collecting huge reserves of credits for 9+ years. I went from being virtually broke to a tidy little nest egg in 18 months without being super aggressive. I did not earn a bunch of credits from farming to start with. ( I actually had less than 60 Million credits after approximately 6 years of SWTOR) . I can tell you that during most of that time my involvement was very casual and rarely did more than just the basics. It's only been the last 2 to 2-1/2 years I really stepped up my level of participation.

 

There's more to this ... and I'll pick this up and finish a bit later on.

 

Thanks !

 

Note: For some reason I'm unable to remain logged in on this site for more than 90 seconds ... I'll try again tomorrow !

Edited September 13, 2021 by OlBuzzard

[Tsillah]

This is only partially correct.

 

In order for prices to go UP someone has to have the credits to spend in the first place. And in this place something to drive the market.

 

You are correct as far as making or adding credits ... BUT when in game items needed (such as mods) are no longer readily supplied and items such as "armor" designs (which were primarily shells) are sought after are no longer in game but rather from the CM ( and eventually filtered down into the GTN) ... the values of those items will change significantly. ALSO the ownership of those items (BOP or BoE) will also significantly determine exchange values.

Well, in game items such as mods are quite readily supplied by playing the game and crafting them is an expensive path. So the supply on the GTN is not high, but you have the alternative of getting them from gameplay and they are quite readily available. I still have tons of mods (armorings, mods, enhancements, hilts, barrels, etc.) sitting in my legacy bank. I have no idea for the reasons why people would buy them from the GTN but they do. But that's a matter of supply and demand and I addressed that as the second reason for the prices going up, but the first reason I gave was the devaluation of credits, which is called inflation and that's because there are much more credits created than taken out of the economy.

 

And players trading stuff with each other is just a matter of distribution of said credits. The GTN tax takes some of it out of the economy but not nearly enough. And now really expensive items are traded more often in the fleet chat, bypassing the gtn tax.

Please keep in mind that a large number of players have been collecting huge reserves of credits for 9+ years. I went from being virtually broke to a tidy little nest egg in 18 months without being super aggressive. I did not earn a bunch of credits from farming to start with. ( I actually had less than 60 Million credits after approximately 6 years of SWTOR) . I can tell you that during most of that time my involvement was very casual and rarely did more than just the basics. It's only been the last 2 to 2-1/2 years I really stepped up my level of participation.

Well and the hoarding of credits means that there are not enough things in game to spend credits on. Plain and simple. But because there are more and more players like this it also affects supply and demand.

 

You see if there were 10 people before that had billions in their vaults then the market for really expensive goods isn't that big and they themselves probably already have everything they want. But now, for example, there are 200 people that are billionaires that creates a market and they wouldn't have everything yet because even though they're billionaires, these credits don't have the same value anymore as they did before because gaining credits from quests, conquest, etc. is a lot easier than it used to be.

 

So, if there are 20 copies of a CM item that 50 of these new billionaires want to have, they might be willing and are able to spend 100s of millions of credits on a copy of that item. So prices go up, because the demand side of the market has more credits to spend. You see, and this is important, there may be a bigger demand but people who can't afford such prices are not part of the demand side until they have enough credits. And if a person in their generosity undercuts the gtn with a really low price in comparison, chances are that a power trader picks it up to sell it at a higher price, keeping the prices high.

 

And this is how inflation and supply and demand interact with each other. And now that the RAF is done for, there probably will be fewer CM items on the GTN, unless people spend more real money for it, but then, what can they gain with that? More credits that are worth less?

 

Well, I saw that on the gtn on DM that a single person bought all the copies of the Dark Honor Guard's Unstable Lightsaber; he then relisted them for a billion each. Now they are no longer listed. I don't actually think he sold all of them, but the thing is that when you have too much money or credits in this case one thing you can do is invest into goods that keep their value, thereby creating scarcity. And you know, the only alternative people have is the CM but that saber costs 5500 CC. So that's probably a good thing to invest in and at the same time controls the market.

 

There's more to this ... and I'll pick this up and finish a bit later on.

 

Thanks !

I'll be looking forward to it

[Ardrossan]

i doubt anyone actually believes this, its logical that companies want you to spend (more) money on their product, that's just how companies work, you pay money and get something in return

 

Anyone who works in videogame monetization [like the Cartel Market] qualifies as an evil mastermind. It's like being a baby seal clubber or a telemarketer: empathy is an impediment to employee effectiveness.

 

[TrixxieTriss]

Anyone who works in videogame monetization [like the Cartel Market] qualifies as an evil mastermind. It's like being a baby seal clubber or a telemarketer: empathy is an impediment to employee effectiveness.

 

 

Reminds me of Brad in Mythic Quest. He’s in charge of monetisation for their game.

Brad on why he loves his job : “Its about taking our players last dollar, no last penny, no last fraction of a penny, micro micro transactions. Wait, Nano transactions, no ones safe no matter how poor they are, that is why I do this”

Edited September 14, 2021 by TrixxieTriss

[Ardrossan]

Reminds me of Brad in Mythic Quest. He’s in charge of monetisation for their game.

Brad on why he loves his job : “Its about taking our players last dollar, no last penny, no last fraction of a penny, micro micro transactions. Wait, Nano transactions, no ones safe no matter how poor they are, that is why I do this”

 

I guess you didn't click the link. It's literally ten minutes of Brad from Monetization.