BioWare, GTN prices are insane, its time to do something

[BRKMSN]

As long as the f2p limit remains, I will also sell my items below this price. When the game ends your whole trillions are gone but I keep my humanity.

I hope your characters never killed anybody in the game. I'd hate for that to be on your conscience when the game ends.

[RikuvonDrake]

As long as the f2p limit remains, I will also sell my items below this price.

 

this is great, I am sure there are plenty of people, myself included, who are happy to keep reselling your stuff for a few times the original price

[BRKMSN]

this is great, I am sure there are plenty of people, myself included, who are happy to keep reselling your stuff for a few times the original price

 

I wonder why people that are trying to "help" F2P players sell stuff that takes almost all their credits? At least when I sell something a F2P player can't afford, I'm not making them broke.

 

But seriously, If a person feels obligated to help a player, then help them. Don't pretend that selling something on the GTN is helping a down-on-his-luck F2P player you've never met or will ever meet.

 

For just 18,000 credits a month, you can help one F2P player get on his feet. Most are living in inhumane conditions, chained to a cage, freezing through the night wondering, "Will I ever look cool? Will someone ever hear my cries without forum representation?" Call today to become a sponsor and we'll send you 1 Hypercrate: Ultimate Cartel Packs, 1 Prodigal Knight Bundle, 3000 Cartel Coins and a T-shirt with a picture of one random F2P player character wearing a Frilled Leatheris Jacket succumbing to a pack of wild akk dogs with a caption that reads: "Feed a freeloader, not a whale!"

[Ardrossan]

I hope your characters never killed anybody in the game. I'd hate for that to be on your conscience when the game ends.

 

Buried in the weird people you meet in GF thread, there's a story about a pug dps Jedi consular who refused to use any combat skills and had to be persuaded to use his CC on the basis that it wasn't hurting enemies. I think about that guy a lot.

 

I wonder why people that are trying to "help" F2P players sell stuff that takes almost all their credits? At least when I sell something a F2P player can't afford, I'm not making them broke.

Rather than arbitrarily pricing a few items below the limit so a price gouger [i.e YOU] can come along and resell it, BW should make a separate tab on the GTN for F2P account unlocks like artifact authorization and species. Subs can sell these items but not buy them with creds, and there's a limit to how much they can sell them for, let's say 2M. F2P can use escrow to buy those items, and escrows can't be sold for more than 1M each. The fine details can be worked out, IDC, but the point is to allow F2P to buy the unlocks they need, rather than counting on good will from players or raising the credit cap any further.

Edited September 4, 2021 by Ardrossan

[BRKMSN]

Rather than arbitrarily pricing a few items below the limit so a price gouger [i.e YOU] can come along and resell it, BW should make a separate tab on the GTN for F2P account unlocks like artifact authorization and species. Subs can sell these items but not buy them with creds, and there's a limit to how much they can sell them for, let's say 2M. F2P can use escrow to buy those items, and escrows can't be sold for more than 1M each. The fine details can be worked out, IDC, but the point is to allow F2P to buy the unlocks they need, rather than counting on good will from players or raising the credit cap any further.

It doesn't make much sense. Why would a sub buy Cartel items to sell for a limited amount of credits? If their intent is to "help" players they don't know, imagine how much more "help" they could give the player if they sold the item for what it's worth to a sub that would buy it and then used those credits to "help" the F2P character.

 

These "helpers" could form a guild specifically to recruit F2P players, actually get to know them a little bit and then send them things they need in the mail, all the while knowing it didn't go to a greedy scumbag like me just to be flipped.

[Ardrossan]

It doesn't make much sense. Why would a sub buy Cartel items to sell for a limited amount of credits? If their intent is to "help" players they don't know, imagine how much more "help" they could give the player if they sold the item for what it's worth to a sub that would buy it and then used those credits to "help" the F2P character.

 

These "helpers" could form a guild specifically to recruit F2P players, actually get to know them a little bit and then send them things they need in the mail, all the while knowing it didn't go to a greedy scumbag like me just to be flipped.

 

It's not about helping. I'm saying that BW should make credit price controls for select items that F2P can use but subs can't. In the current system, subs buy these unlocks off the CM and sell them for a ton to other subs who stock them for some hypothetical eventuality - they don't go to actual F2Pers, not at those prices.

 

Adding price controls will lower supply [less subs buying them to make money] but perhaps the CC price could also be reduced. It used to be that 1M credits was equal to 100 CC. That's a good ratio for buying and selling unlocks.

 

And no, I don't want to rely on the largesse of subs. Though I do think it's funny that I'm suggesting basic socialist measures whereas your suggestion is classic fiscal conservative - charity, pah! Politics is inescapable, even in madeup fantasy gaming settings.

Edited September 4, 2021 by Ardrossan

[BRKMSN]

And no, I don't want to rely on the largesse of subs. Though I do think it's funny that I'm suggesting basic socialist measures whereas your suggestion is classic fiscal conservative - charity, pah! Politics is inescapable, even in madeup fantasy gaming settings.

I'm consistent with my beliefs. I don't think this game would even exist if it wasn't for capitalism in the real world.

 

I'm not against charity, I just don't think taking a F2P character for basically all his credits is some kind of charitable act. Selling is selling. Charity is "giving."

[Ardrossan]

I'm consistent with my beliefs. I don't think this game would even exist if it wasn't for capitalism in the real world.

 

I'm not against charity, I just don't think taking a F2P character for basically all his credits is some kind of charitable act. Selling is selling. Charity is "giving."

 

I think you misunderstood - for one, I'm not trying to catch you in an 'aha!'. Fiscal conservatives often suggest charity, like your suggestion of people forming guilds to just give stuff to F2Pers, rather than directly fixing problems with the system. No one *needs* expensive armors, OP is just selfish and doesn't want to pay money to remove the credit limit. Conversely, stuff that is intended for F2P, like most of the unlocks in this game, are instead bought and hoarded by subs at prices unattainable to F2P. We can debate whether or not F2P really need stuff like artifact authorization, but it's not debatable that it's intended to be used by them and isn't, judging by the high prices for it on the GTN.

 

Also, as I've said, you're confusing the credit limit with a player's total credits. Just because the limit is 1M doesn't mean F2Pers only have 1M, it means they can only SPEND up to 1M without using escrows. But that's beside the point, I don't sell items on the GTN at less than 1M for the sake of F2Pers, that doesn't accomplish anything.

Edited September 4, 2021 by Ardrossan

[BRKMSN]

I think you misunderstood - for one, I'm not trying to catch you in an 'aha!'. Fiscal conservatives often suggest charity, like your suggestion of people forming guilds to just give stuff to F2Pers, rather than directly fixing problems with the system. No one *needs* expensive armors, OP is just selfish and doesn't want to pay money to remove the credit limit. Conversely, stuff that is intended for F2P, like most of the unlocks in this game, are instead bought and hoarded by subs at prices unattainable to F2P. We can debate whether or not F2P really need stuff like artifact authorization, but it's not debatable that it's intended to be used by them and isn't, judging by the high prices for it on the GTN.

 

Also, as I've said, you're confusing the credit limit with a player's total credits. Just because the limit is 1M doesn't mean F2Pers only have 1M, it means they can only SPEND up to 1M without using escrows. But that's beside the point, I don't sell items on the GTN at less than 1M for the sake of F2Pers, that doesn't accomplish anything.

 

The thing about unlocks and authorizations is that they were designed to bring in game revenue through direct purchases and possibly sway willing buyers into just subbing in the first place. They are part of the cartel market, but there was no thought in the design of those items to make sure they could be obtained on the GTN by F2P players using credits.

 

There should not be a change in the game now to facilitate that as it would be counter-productive to the built in incentive to subscribe in the 1st place.

 

So what I'm really saying is the system isn't broken.

Edited September 4, 2021 by BRKMSN

[Ardrossan]

The thing about unlocks and authorizations is that they were designed to bring in game revenue through direct purchases and possibly sway willing buyers into just subbing in the first place. They are part of the cartel market, but there was no thought in the design of those items to make sure they could be obtained on the GTN by F2P players using credits.

 

There should not be a change in the game now to facilitate that as it would be counter-productive to the built in incentive to subscribe in the 1st place.

 

So what I'm really saying is the system isn't broken.

 

Which is, again, very conservative, i.e the system is fine and any defects only affect freeloaders who should be subbing anyway.

 

But the thing is that this thinking runs counter to what BW has done in the past, which is to make it easier for F2P with QOL improvements, like raising the credit limit, while at the same time doing little to reward continuous subs. Which suggests that subs like yourself who think that they're defending the devs' intentions...probably aren't, and the system really is broken and is on the to be fixed list. It's a bit like insisting that the devs intended clipping in hood/headgear animation since it's always been part of the game. It's a bug not a feature.

[RikuvonDrake]

don't think Bioware cares that f2p are unable to afford unlocks and other cartel market items from the gtn, in a way it actually helps them as it means that f2p will have to buy the items from for cartel coins, or subscriber. making f2p/pref become subscribers or buy cartel coins are both key milestones for Bioware and things that are (and should) continue to incentivise

 

I think that the devs are happy to do smaller QoL updates for f2p, in particular, if there are specific things that makes many of them stop playing, after all with time most of them are very likely to subscribe or buy cartel coins, I just don't think that its likely for them to make a separate gtn category on gtn, a slight increase in credit cap or other QoL things tho, sure

Edited September 5, 2021 by RikuvonDrake

[Ardrossan]

I just don't think that its likely for them to make a separate gtn category on gtn, a slight increase in credit cap or other QoL things tho, sure

 

lol I don't think it's likely. I don't think anything we suggest here is likely to happen unless they were already planning to do it. And yes, I agree, BW will almost always do the easier thing even if it's just a bandaid solution.

 

Although, it does make you wonder why they bother with QOL upgrades for F2P at all in that case.

[Tsillah]

The resell madness would stop if it were not possible to resell the purchased items from the GTN.

This is the crux of it. If everything in the CM was account bound, this wouldn't be a problem, but there would be other issues because players that have gotten used to buying things via the GTN would get really upset. If credits only had value for ingame costs (perks, travel, repair, ripping mods, amplifiers etc.) then mass inflation wouldn't matter much. It's when you tie it to a real life currency that credits get more value because you can exchange it for real money.

 

That's the situation now. You buy something off the CM with real money and then sell it to exchange it for credits, another currency. However, when credits are in abundance in the SWTOR economy, you want more bang for you buck because credits spend too quickly in comparison.

 

Isolating the market would make credits less valuable as a currency. But BW would have to make CM items account bound and put more cosmetics in game directly to balance it out. So effectively make the game more rewarding.

 

Neither of which would suit BW in the short term and they probably operate with cost vs benefit on a short term basis. They don't invest in the future much because the return of that investment is beyond EA's horizon.

 

As long as the f2p limit remains, I will also sell my items below this price. When the game ends your whole trillions are gone but I keep my humanity.

This is very laudable but this actually makes the richer more rich. Yes, I'm saying you're enabling them to become even richer. If you put an item on the GTN that costs 10M and you put it on there for 1M, a power trader (who tend to do nothing but surf the GTN all day looking for good deals such as yours) picks it up and resells it for 9,999,999 credits. Also subbed players might pick it up as well. So you don't actually reach the F2P community, unless they're very lucky to get in there first.

 

So your humanity is in question again when your actions actually make the rich richer. That's irony at its worst.

[Moonshift]

I hope your characters never killed anybody in the game. I'd hate for that to be on your conscience when the game ends.

 

If i'm offline I lighten up a candle on my shrine and pray for the fallen souls.

 

I wonder why people that are trying to "help" F2P players sell stuff that takes almost all their credits? At least when I sell something a F2P player can't afford, I'm not making them broke.

 

But seriously, If a person feels obligated to help a player, then help them. Don't pretend that selling something on the GTN is helping a down-on-his-luck F2P player you've never met or will ever meet.

 

For just 18,000 credits a month, you can help one F2P player get on his feet. Most are living in inhumane conditions, chained to a cage, freezing through the night wondering, "Will I ever look cool? Will someone ever hear my cries without forum representation?" Call today to become a sponsor and we'll send you 1 Hypercrate: Ultimate Cartel Packs, 1 Prodigal Knight Bundle, 3000 Cartel Coins and a T-shirt with a picture of one random F2P player character wearing a Frilled Leatheris Jacket succumbing to a pack of wild akk dogs with a caption that reads: "Feed a freeloader, not a whale!"

 

The most armor pieces was listed for 400k. But someone kept buying out every breastplate and sold them to a higher price. So I was forced to set it to 900k, too. But before that I had already lowered the prices of other sets, then it was balanced again.

[Moonshift]

this is great, I am sure there are plenty of people, myself included, who are happy to keep reselling your stuff for a few times the original price

 

It's ok i'm happy too, if you buy my stuff.

[Moonshift]

This is the crux of it. If everything in the CM was account bound, this wouldn't be a problem, but there would be other issues because players that have gotten used to buying things via the GTN would get really upset. If credits only had value for ingame costs (perks, travel, repair, ripping mods, amplifiers etc.) then mass inflation wouldn't matter much. It's when you tie it to a real life currency that credits get more value because you can exchange it for real money.

 

That's the situation now. You buy something off the CM with real money and then sell it to exchange it for credits, another currency. However, when credits are in abundance in the SWTOR economy, you want more bang for you buck because credits spend too quickly in comparison.

 

Isolating the market would make credits less valuable as a currency. But BW would have to make CM items account bound and put more cosmetics in game directly to balance it out. So effectively make the game more rewarding.

 

Neither of which would suit BW in the short term and they probably operate with cost vs benefit on a short term basis. They don't invest in the future much because the return of that investment is beyond EA's horizon.

 

 

This is very laudable but this actually makes the richer more rich. Yes, I'm saying you're enabling them to become even richer. If you put an item on the GTN that costs 10M and you put it on there for 1M, a power trader (who tend to do nothing but surf the GTN all day looking for good deals such as yours) picks it up and resells it for 9,999,999 credits. Also subbed players might pick it up as well. So you don't actually reach the F2P community, unless they're very lucky to get in there first.

 

So your humanity is in question again when your actions actually make the rich richer. That's irony at its worst.

 

I mean all items are legacy bound if they are bought from the GTN. Then it can only be sold by the original seller till it gets traded.

Sry for more is my english not good enough .

 

Yes i don't think too, that they will change anything. Like RikuvonDrake said the plan is to make f2p into subs and selling more cartel coins. it would be ok if it was a tiny plan but the most changes somehow leads in that direction, sadly.

 

Nah, I'm talking from crafted items and not the cm stuff. And I have no problems if subs buying my items.

Edited September 5, 2021 by Moonshift

[BRKMSN]

Which is, again, very conservative, i.e the system is fine and any defects only affect freeloaders who should be subbing anyway.

 

But the thing is that this thinking runs counter to what BW has done in the past, which is to make it easier for F2P with QOL improvements, like raising the credit limit, while at the same time doing little to reward continuous subs. Which suggests that subs like yourself who think that they're defending the devs' intentions...probably aren't, and the system really is broken and is on the to be fixed list. It's a bit like insisting that the devs intended clipping in hood/headgear animation since it's always been part of the game. It's a bug not a feature.

It hardly runs "counter to what they have done in the past."

 

There are 2 purposes for the F2P system:

1) To get people to try the game, hopefully like the game, and eventually spend money on the game.

 

2) To help populate the servers

 

So, the truth is that if the server population was so busy that we had to sit in queues to get into the game, F2P players would keep getting bumped behind subscribers in the queues. Obviously that isn't the case. A few years ago, in a live stream or something, the Devs admitted that their vision for the future of this game's player base was that many people would sub only for periods at a time but not continually. In 6.0, the gearing system was changed to renew the emphasis on credits for gearing. The highest credit cost was 1 million per item. So F2P players had their credits cap raised to facilitate that. It was not increased so they could buy CM stuff on the GTN with credits. It was only raised so they could continue to gear a max level character during a period where they were not subbed.

[Tsillah]

I mean all items are legacy bound if they are bought from the GTN. Then it can only be sold by the original seller till it gets traded.

Sry for more is my english not good enough .

Well I don't mean the 36 hrs before you can trade it, I'm talking about the moment they become tradeable. If that wouldn't happen, then the GTN will look very differently. Of course there will be an uproar in the community cause they can't sell their CM items anymore but it would solve a lot of problems with the economy.

Yes i don't think too, that they will change anything. Like RikuvonDrake said the plan is to make f2p into subs and selling more cartel coins. it would be ok if it was a tiny plan but the most changes somehow leads in that direction, sadly.

 

Nah, I'm talking from crafted items and not the cm stuff. And I have no problems if subs buying my items.

ah right, if you meant crafted items then it's in game items. Power traders might still pick them up, but that's how it is. Those items are not linked to real currency.

[eabevella]

If we can't sell the items we buy from the CM, I imagine there will only be a few people buying Hypercrate or other random packs and it would be bad for business.

[Sir-steve]

You can literally earn ~150 U$ worth of Cartel Coins per Galactic Season now, just by playing the GS on each server. This is how BW is responding to inflation - they got rid of the referral program and gave everyone the ability to earn a whack of free CC.

 

Roll a toon on each server, get the CCs, buy the shiny things you want.

 

Don't pay any credits....just play and prosper.

Edited September 7, 2021 by Sir-steve

[DarkTergon]

You can literally earn ~150 U$ worth of Cartel Coins per Galactic Season now, just by playing the GS on each server. This is how BW is responding to inflation - they got rid of the referral program and gave everyone the ability to earn a whack of free CC.

 

Roll a toon on each server, get the CCs, buy the shiny things you want.

 

Don't pay any credits....just play and prosper.

 

Getting rid of the ref program was one of the factors of the huge increase in inflation on the gtn. Even with the cc's from the GS seasons I don't think there are as many free cc's floating around as there was with the ref links. Even without pimping my link out in game (just having it as my signature) I got thousands of cc's, with GS I got (or will have) close to 20k , but that was over months, people were getting that in a month.

 

Everything that you NEED to play the game is either given, or can be crafted. Everything else is fluff. Sure some armour is cool, but you can make cool outfits from dropped loot, etc. None of my pref accounts have CM stuff, unless it's specific for a char, most are dropped mixes, with dyes.

 

BW hasn't responded to inflation, and probably never will, because while stuff is selling high, people will pay real money to get it and sell it. And people who don't want to buy from the gtn, will probably spend real money, to get cc's. Rampant inflation is a win/win for BW.

[OlBuzzard]

Getting rid of the ref program was one of the factors of the huge increase in inflation on the gtn. Even with the cc's from the GS seasons I don't think there are as many free cc's floating around as there was with the ref links. Even without pimping my link out in game (just having it as my signature) I got thousands of cc's, with GS I got (or will have) close to 20k , but that was over months, people were getting that in a month.

 

Everything that you NEED to play the game is either given, or can be crafted. Everything else is fluff. Sure some armour is cool, but you can make cool outfits from dropped loot, etc. None of my pref accounts have CM stuff, unless it's specific for a char, most are dropped mixes, with dyes.

 

BW hasn't responded to inflation, and probably never will, because while stuff is selling high, people will pay real money to get it and sell it. And people who don't want to buy from the gtn, will probably spend real money, to get cc's. Rampant inflation is a win/win for BW.

 

IMO this "ramped up" attack on the GTN is much like two previous instances where we saw certain subjects come up until BW caved in...

 

Once the GTN is "restructured" it will affect the game in a VERY negative manner.

 

OH ... BTW.. Aside from a few BiS items .. most of what is over priced on the GTN has to do with "armor" items (such as Satele armor sets for example) or Deco items. For some odd reason certain armor sets are no longer available on the CM. This naturally drives up the cost on the GTN (up to the point of insanity) .

 

Me personally ... I don't mess with stuff that's over priced. I just don't. I either buy it at an affordable price ... or I move on to something else !

[Ardrossan]

I don't have any sympathy for whales who no longer have access to referral CCs. But I do care that for non-subs, taking away referrals deprived them of a way to get 1) weekly subs every three months 2) first time referees got various unlocks, including crew skills.

 

I understand why they took it away because #1 allowed players who weren't subbed to cash in on GS rewards. Had it still been around, I would have waited until September 27, gotten a referral, claimed all the GS sub rewards, without paying a dime. But there should still be a mechanism for #2, which is what first time referrals need anyway.

[BRKMSN]

I don't have any sympathy for whales who no longer have access to referral CCs. But I do care that for non-subs, taking away referrals deprived them of a way to get 1) weekly subs every three months 2) first time referees got various unlocks, including crew skills.

 

I understand why they took it away because #1 allowed players who weren't subbed to cash in on GS rewards. Had it still been around, I would have waited until September 27, gotten a referral, claimed all the GS sub rewards, without paying a dime. But there should still be a mechanism for #2, which is what first time referrals need anyway.

 

They gave the ability to use character titles and unify colors to everybody.

[Ardrossan]

They gave the ability to use character titles and unify colors to everybody.

 

The most important piece of that is a permanent crew skill unlock. Without it, F2P can only use 2 crew skills.