PTS Cookie Cutter with Less Abilities = NGE All over again.

[TrixxieTriss]

 

 

I would, if I could. But the only guide I find for accessing the PTS is either outdated or inaccurate, as my launcher doesn't have the option for accessing the PTS environment, and my account page doesn't have a PTS Character Copy option.

 

 

Right here you give up your moral high ground to say wether these changes are good or not because you don’t even bother to test them. All you had to do is ask if you had problems with the pts.

But that seems too hard to ask and super easy to shill for BioWare in multiple posts than just ask for guidance on how to download the pts. Honestly, that’s nearly the weakest excuse I’ve ever heard.

 

the abilities does largely the same thing as other abilities, it's mostly a flavor of animation that sets them apart.

 

Not quite as bad as your other post saying all the abilities are the same but with different animations.

Everyone who “actually” plays the game knows just how ridiculous that statement was. I noticed you haven’t tried to defend it. Would you care to try again?

Edited August 2, 2021 by TrixxieTriss

[Meurik]

Right here you give up your moral high ground to say wether these changes are good or not because you don’t even bother to test them. All you had to do is ask if you had problems with the pts.

But that seems too hard to ask and super easy to shill for BioWare in multiple posts than just ask for guidance on how to download the pts. Honestly, that’s nearly the weakest excuse I’ve ever heard.

 

See, reading comments such as yours, is there any wonder why I don't frequent the forums?

 

I never said "I don't bother" with PTS. I said I couldn't access it. But I guess reading comprehension is hard for some people. It's funny really. Looking at various posts on the forum regarding these changes, people who approve of it or aren't opposed to them, get "shouted down" or deemed shills for Bioware. Why give any feedback at all, if you get derided by individuals such as yourself when one disagrees with your opinions?

[LD_Little_Dragon]

See, reading comments such as yours, is there any wonder why I don't frequent the forums?

 

I never said "I don't bother" with PTS. I said I couldn't access it. But I guess reading comprehension is hard for some people. It's funny really. Looking at various posts on the forum regarding these changes, people who approve of it or aren't opposed to them, get "shouted down" or deemed shills for Bioware. Why give any feedback at all, if you get derided by individuals such as yourself when one disagrees with your opinions?

 

The problem is that when you admit to not trying the PTS (which does take jumping through some hoops to access), then it means you are basing your 'feedback' on Bioware's PR.

 

What the PR team says, and what is actually showing up on the PTS are different. That's why your feedback is not relevant; it is based on hopes and dreams and not reality.

[Meurik]

The problem is that when you admit to not trying the PTS (which does take jumping through some hoops to access), then it means you are basing your 'feedback' on Bioware's PR.

 

What the PR team says, and what is actually showing up on the PTS are different. That's why your feedback is not relevant; it is based on hopes and dreams and not reality.

 

Then by all means, feel free to point me in the direction of accessing the PTS when the option does not exist in my launcher, and PTS Character Copy is not shown on my Account page (despite having an active sub)

 

I am well aware how PR and PTS can differ greatly, and would love to try out the changes for myself. I just don't outright hate things because "change is bad, Bioware bad!" like certain other individuals in this thread are implying.

[LD_Little_Dragon]

Then by all means, feel free to point me in the direction of accessing the PTS when the option does not exist in my launcher, and PTS Character Copy is not shown on my Account page (despite having an active sub)

 

There is no PTS character copy in this phase https://www.swtor.com/community/forumdisplay.php?f=308

 

To access the PTS you need the non-streaming launcher. AKA disable bitraider. https://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?p=7826333

 

That's without the steam client, I don't use steam, so I'm not sure if Steam players can access the PTS.

[TrixxieTriss]

The problem is that when you admit to not trying the PTS (which does take jumping through some hoops to access), then it means you are basing your 'feedback' on Bioware's PR.

 

What the PR team says, and what is actually showing up on the PTS are different. That's why your feedback is not relevant; it is based on hopes and dreams and not reality.

 

And that’s why I think they are a PR plant trying to change the narrative. If true, BioWare obviously know how badly these changes will be taken by the player base and desperately trying to justify it. When it would be better if they just walked back on the idea. You have to hand it to BioWares, they are consistent, they will double and triple down every time instead of walking back on a bad idea. Their hubris is without measure.

[TrixxieTriss]

See, reading comments such as yours, is there any wonder why I don't frequent the forums?

 

I never said "I don't bother" with PTS. I said I couldn't access it. But I guess reading comprehension is hard for some people. It's funny really. Looking at various posts on the forum regarding these changes, people who approve of it or aren't opposed to them, get "shouted down" or deemed shills for Bioware. Why give any feedback at all, if you get derided by individuals such as yourself when one disagrees with your opinions?

 

And yet not once have you asked for help on downloading the pts. That’s why I said you can’t be bothered.

 

If you want people to take your opinion seriously and not look like a BioWare PR person, make some effort to learn the abilities you are talking about and make an effort to test. Other wise we will question your opinion as bad faith. You only have yourself to blame if that’s the opinion people have formed.

 

And we’re still waiting for your explanation how abilities are mostly all the same but with different animations. Care to elaborate more? 🍿

Edited August 2, 2021 by TrixxieTriss

[TrixxieTriss]

There is no PTS character copy in this phase https://www.swtor.com/community/forumdisplay.php?f=308

 

To access the PTS you need the non-streaming launcher. AKA disable bitraider. https://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?p=7826333

 

That's without the steam client, I don't use steam, so I'm not sure if Steam players can access the PTS.

 

Steam client can use the pts to download.

[Meurik]

And yet not once have you asked for help on downloading the pts. That’s why I said you can’t be bothered.

 

If you want people to take your opinion seriously and not look like a BioWare PR person, make some effort to learn the abilities you are talking about and make an effort to test. Other wise we will question your opinion as bad faith. You only have yourself to blame if that’s the opinion people have formed.

 

And we’re still waiting for your explanation how abilities are mostly all the same but with different animations. Care to elaborate more? 🍿

 

I have no reason to justify my comments to you, when regardless of what I say, you'll still believe I'm a Bioware plant. So why bother?

 

I've gotten my answers elsewhere regarding PTS. I have the client via Steam, and Steam users don't have access to the PTS. Ergo, not my fault for not being able to try out the changes, but rather Bioware.

 

Steam client can use the pts to download.

 

Oh really?!? Well, I have an active subscription, and I use Steam. No such option exists for me via the launcher, or the account page.

 

https://imgur.com/a/lgsfklW

Edited August 2, 2021 by Meurik

[mike_carton]

You have to hand it to BioWares, they are consistent, they will double and triple down every time instead of walking back on a bad idea. Their hubris is without measure.

 

Time and again. It is fascinating to watch, at one level.

[Meurik]

Steam client can use the pts to download.

 

So, Ms "You must be a Bioware Plant" !

 

I did actually manage to download the PTS client, after jumping through a bunch of hoops. Character Copy doesn't exist anywhere, so I had to start a fresh character on PTS. And low and behold, can't progress much further than Level 5 because the damn TRAINER won't give me new skills! Like... ANY. Created a Guardian first, started at Level 1 with 0 skills. Thankfully I had access to Shae Vizla via the mailbox, set to Damage Mode to kill things. Created a Sentinel, and that one had basic skills at Level 1. But neither character allowed me to interact with the trainer for additional skills.

 

So I bow to your majesty, and admit that this is all doom and gloom, will most definitely fail since obviously the entire game will be broken if it goes live in it's CURRENT state etc. Note the bolded word there, as it may be a difficult concept for some that what is CURRENTLY on test server, is almost certainly very different from the END result when it goes live.

 

And in case this post doesn't make it abundantly clear: I AM NOT A BIOWARE PLANT !!!

Edited August 2, 2021 by Meurik

[TrixxieTriss]

So, Ms "You must be a Bioware Plant" !

 

I did actually manage to download the PTS client, after jumping through a bunch of hoops. Character Copy doesn't exist anywhere, so I had to start a fresh character on PTS. And low and behold, can't progress much further than Level 5 because the damn TRAINER won't give me new skills! Like... ANY. Created a Guardian first, started at Level 1 with 0 skills. Thankfully I had access to Shae Vizla via the mailbox, set to Damage Mode to kill things. Created a Sentinel, and that one had basic skills at Level 1. But neither character allowed me to interact with the trainer for additional skills.

 

So I bow to your majesty, and admit that this is all doom and gloom, will most definitely fail since obviously the entire game will be broken if it goes live in it's CURRENT state etc. Note the bolded word there, as it may be a difficult concept for some that what is CURRENTLY on test server, is almost certainly very different from the END result when it goes live.

 

And in case this post doesn't make it abundantly clear: I AM NOT A BIOWARE PLANT !!!

 

Seeing as my post to help you was misinterpreted and removed.

 

Let me make another that shouldn’t be misinterpreted as anything more than to show you that there is information to help you if you read the threads posted by Bioware on how to get started.

 

As you can see below. Jackie specifically states that character transfers aren’t available and then outlines how to travel to the fleet to speak to the trainer and gear up so you can then travel to parts of the game to test.

 

If you need any other help that isn’t included in Jackie’s post (ie how to max out your gear to 306), then ask next time so you can be more constructively involved in the discussions because you’ve done the testing on the pts.

 

Remember to post your feed back in the appropriate thread with the appropriate information Bioware are requesting.

 

Ready to dive into PTS? Here are the steps you need to follow in order to try out the Jedi Guardian and Sentinel.

 

• Create a NEW Jedi Guardian/Sentinel. You will spawn in during the first scene of the Jedi Knight. You can safely escape out of this cutscene.
  
• All PTS characters have been deleted in order to ensure 7.0 compatibility, so character transfer is off for this phase. Character copy (from live servers) will not be available until later phases of testing.
  
• Your new Jedi Guardian/Sentinel will begin on Tython. Head towards the first taxi area and you’ll see a “PTS Droid” waiting to teleport you to the Republic Fleet. Do not take the taxi. Look to the right and you will see a droid named PTS Fleet Teleport (-547, -1254 coordinates)
  
• This will take you to Tython and Ord Mantell Departures Area. Leave this area into the main level of the fleet.
  
• Hook a right into the Combat Training area of the fleet into the northern most room where the Jedi Knight trainer is.
  
• Once there, start by speaking to the [PTS] CD-3 Combat Specializer Droid (-4889, -4628). It will help guide you towards your Discipline selection. The droid will also boost you to level 75 and grant credits.

 

• 
  
  • Choose your Discipline
    
  • Choose an ability path
    
  • KNOWN ISSUE: Sometimes the first time you do this it doesn’t populate your bar entirely (but the abilities are still in the Abilities window). Either drag them manually or have the conversation again with the NPC and it’ll work properly subsequent times.
    

 

 

• For this PTS phase, you will only be able to choose static builds we have chosen for you. Future phases will allow you to more freely choose various abilities and passives as you level.
   
  
• Gear up using the nearby PTS vendors, then speak with the Onderon Dreams travel agent droid to head over to Onderon, if you want to test out some level 75 world content with your new build! The dailies terminal in Iziz will have a special quest on it that grants access to the daily missions, a free mount, and a companion.
  
• Because you may not have a personal ship, there’s a droid next to the Onderon dailies terminal that will teleport you back to the fleet.
  
• Lastly, speak to the Onderon Dreams: Travel Agent Droid which will teleport you to Onderon.
  
• Head out to the Onderon Mission Terminal (706, -281) to pick up various Daily and Weekly Missions to playtest the updated Jedi Guardian/Sentinel!
  
• Reminder to summon a companion 😊
  
• If you wish to test out a different Discipline, simply head back, speak to the [PTS] CD-3 Combat Specializer Droid, and reselect any available options.
  

Please let us know if you experience any issues.

 

What we would like you to test out:

 

• Check out the new ability paths across all disciplines and variations. Remember that the full version will allow you to make your own choices, but in this phase we’re just testing out some specific layouts of abilities.
  
• Head to Onderon and play some dailies to see how the new rotations feel!
  

 

At this time, we would love to read feedback from your experience. Your feedback will help us determine if we are on the correct path to achieving our goals of making the class feel less encumbered and customization more concise.

 

Please leave your Jedi Guardian feedback here

Please leave your Jedi Sentinel feedback here

 

Thank you!

 

EDIT: Included more details steps on how to access PTS as well as coordinates for droids.

EDIT 2: Modified to include Sentinel messaging.

Edited August 3, 2021 by TrixxieTriss

[davensuitelife]

You ever heard of reading comprehension?

 

 

 

It's that simple.

 

to be fair everyone the same sh*t now anyways

[phalczen]

I think there are parallels, especially since I played from beta to sunset on SWG. The reality is that the SWG was around longer after the NGE (5 years) than before it (3 years). I won’t deny it reduced the population but it didn’t kill the game.

 

As I said there are parallels to be drawn, especially when it comes to buzzwords like simplification or pruning. But I’ve already provided that feedback elsewhere and don’t wish to rehash it here.

 

I actually suspect there will be a lot of diversity in builds initially. People may find the best combination overall but ideally there will be certain combos better for certain encounters and Loadouts will facilitate swapping among them. I hope, anyway. I mean three choices every five levels or so results in a lot of potential combinations. Currently for PTS Sentinel has 8 choices... I mean they are made for you for convenience because the interface isn’t built. But three options at 8 points means 24 potential configurations, not including set bonus and tactical choice. You are correct that there will be fewer skills in a players toolkit, but possibly wrong about everyone being cookie cutter.

 

Believe me I’m not sold on this system yet by any means, but it is going to offer more diverse builds. Nerfed to be sure, but still diverse.

[Savej]

I think there are parallels, especially since I played from beta to sunset on SWG. The reality is that the SWG was around longer after the NGE (5 years) than before it (3 years). I won’t deny it reduced the population but it didn’t kill the game.

 

As I said there are parallels to be drawn, especially when it comes to buzzwords like simplification or pruning. But I’ve already provided that feedback elsewhere and don’t wish to rehash it here.

 

I actually suspect there will be a lot of diversity in builds initially. People may find the best combination overall but ideally there will be certain combos better for certain encounters and Loadouts will facilitate swapping among them. I hope, anyway. I mean three choices every five levels or so results in a lot of potential combinations. Currently for PTS Sentinel has 8 choices... I mean they are made for you for convenience because the interface isn’t built. But three options at 8 points means 24 potential configurations, not including set bonus and tactical choice. You are correct that there will be fewer skills in a players toolkit, but possibly wrong about everyone being cookie cutter.

 

Believe me I’m not sold on this system yet by any means, but it is going to offer more diverse builds. Nerfed to be sure, but still diverse.

 

Choices yes, but once people figure out which ones perform better there will not be much variety at all, just the smart one and the dumb ones. For example, for pve the choice between GBTF, vanish and blade blitz is a simple one unless you do raiding maybe where you might need blade blitz if you don't have transcendence. Look at now, guardians have all sorts of tactical options or... they can get Grit Teeth. Theoretically, if I hadn't canceled my sub, I could have a lot of sentinel loadouts ready for switching if I was doing arenas vs duels vs casual pve vs raiding... but why? Why not let me keep what I have now? It's actually much more confusing keeping track of 4+ loadouts vs just the one that I have now for a given sentinel/spec.

Edited August 3, 2021 by Savej

[Soljin]

Choices yes, but once people figure out which ones perform better there will not be much variety at all, just the smart one and the dumb ones. For example, for pve the choice between GBTF, vanish and blade blitz is a simple one unless you do raiding maybe where you might need blade blitz if you don't have transcendence. Look at now, guardians have all sorts of tactical options or... they can get Grit Teeth. Theoretically, if I hadn't canceled my sub, I could have a lot of sentinel loadouts ready for switching if I was doing arenas vs duels vs casual pve vs raiding... but why? Why not let me keep what I have now? It's actually much more confusing keeping track of 4+ loadouts vs just the one that I have now for a given sentinel/spec.

 

I think the difference plays out in combat...You build and choose the loadout that best suits what you are doing and this adds difficulty by removing "all" options at once. You still have all your abilities you are just limited to the set up you loaded going in... The key here is that everyone else is also locked into a loadout within the instance (assuming that's how it would work).

 

If they do this properly they could actually increase the strengths of some abilities since you are now operating without "all" the abilities...this in a sense means they could allow you to be more powerful but in a specialized manner...

 

That said they would need to actually pull off a decent system rather than just simply pruning...they would need to retune skills to the content.

[arunav]

 

If they do this properly they could actually increase the strengths of some abilities since you are now operating without "all" the abilities...this in a sense means they could allow you to be more powerful but in a specialized manner...

 

That said they would need to actually pull off a decent system rather than just simply pruning...they would need to retune skills to the content.

 

The trouble is there's little about the way the game's been run for a bunch of years now that would indicate this would will be done well and comprehensively.

 

I'd have just preferred some updated passives and utility choices, perhaps some differences in how existing abilities work, if BW wanted to change up combat for 7.0. I'm fairly certain, when all this goes live, most players that are familiar with their main class or classes will agree.

 

SWTOR has never been that complicated to figure out, especially after 4.0 made the basic story part of the game so easy. Every other part of the game uses the "extra" abilities being made choices, to varying degrees, and it is a huge undertaking to make sure existing content works with the changes, not to mention preserves the feel and identity of classes that are the basis of this 10-year-old game.

Edited August 4, 2021 by arunav

[JCDenton]

The trouble is there's little about the way the game's been run for a bunch of years now that would indicate this would will be done well and comprehensively.

 

I think this sums things up. It doesn't really matter to me what Bioware could do. What matters to me is the combination of what they have done, that I can see on the PTS, and what they are likely to do, given a pattern of behavior stretching back a long time. I don't understand the mindset of people who want to eschew years of observable history in favor of what-if and wishful thinking. How many times can people see the same movie before they remember how it ends?

[TrixxieTriss]

I think this sums things up. It doesn't really matter to me what Bioware could do. What matters to me is the combination of what they have done, that I can see on the PTS, and what they are likely to do, given a pattern of behavior stretching back a long time. I don't understand the mindset of people who want to eschew years of observable history in favor of what-if and wishful thinking. How many times can people see the same movie before they remember how it ends?

 

We’ll put !

[Kurj]

This isn't intended spitefully, but if this is what you think, then why continue subscribing? They might scale this back after launch, and likely will if they lose a bunch of subs, but we all know they're not going to unring the bell.

 

I assume some will say they are hoping to influence and change this. If so, you may succeed in small ways, but you won't change the bigger picture. The only thing that will do that is a loss of income. Why not play that card now?

 

And believe me, I don't want anyone to leave. I'd like to keep playing the game, and it's hard to do that with less people. I'm just saying, if folks really believe this is the death of the game, why bother at this point?

[TrixxieTriss]

It won’t be the abilities being removed that will end up making people leave. It will be all the bugs and badly rebalanced content that will do it.

 

It took Bioware nearly 6 months to mostly fix 1 new flash point from last year. How does anyone think they can do that across the entire game for 16 advance specs in 4 months when they haven’t even put the other specs on the pts yet.

 

It will be the playability of the game and excessive bugs that will end up killing the game more than some abilities being removed. But it’s the removal of the abilities that are going to tip over the the game. Just like when you pull out the wrong block in Jenga, the whole tower falls.

 

BioWare might have be able to make these changes if they had a bigger team and another 12 months. But with what we’ve seen on the pts so far, my confidence is gone they can do this in 4 months and the game not be riddled with bugs and be balanced.

 

Sadly, I think they are over reaching and it’s not going to end well for us or them.

Edited August 4, 2021 by TrixxieTriss

[JCDenton]

why continue subscribing

 

I enjoy the game, and I want to continue enjoying it while I can. When I no longer enjoy it, I'll stop paying for it, as over a million subscribers before me have done. It's why I oppose bad changes - who likes to have their good time ruined? But I've never seen an online game that wasn't patched to death. The over-simplification brain worms always take hold eventually. It fails, fails, and fails again, but decades later, one company after another in this industry lines up to be the next one to try it out. Then it fails.

[DjiiniTwo]

badly rebalanced content

 

This, this, a million times this. Anyone who truly believes, deep down, that they'll really rebalance everything in the game to compensate for these changes...much less do it in anything resembling a timely manner...

 

Well, I know some Nigerian Princes that would like to sell them a bridge, you know what I'm sayin'? I wonder how many people don't remember the period of TWO YEARS where all Silver mobs had DOUBLED DAMAGE from what was intended, able to melt anyone in seconds if they weren't properly CC'd.

Edited August 4, 2021 by DjiiniTwo

[Kurj]

This, this, a million times this. Anyone who truly believes, deep down, that they'll really rebalance everything in the game to compensate for these changes...much less do it in anything resembling a timely manner...

 

Well, I know some Nigerian Princes that would like to sell them a bridge, you know what I'm sayin'? I wonder how many people don't remember the period of TWO YEARS where all Silver mobs had DOUBLED DAMAGE from what was intended, able to melt anyone in seconds if they weren't properly CC'd.

 

It's not that I think they'll rebalance everything perfectly. It's more that I don't think these changes are going to have as big an impact as folks are assuming, for the vast majority of content most people play.

[DjiiniTwo]

It's not that I think they'll rebalance everything perfectly. It's more that I don't think these changes are going to have as big an impact as folks are assuming, for the vast majority of content most people play.

 

Sure can't wait for soloing Star Fortress Heroics to be impossible due to the downsizing of DCDs!