PTS Cookie Cutter with Less Abilities = NGE All over again.

[DragonsKnight_]

A - jump. X, Y, B + variants LT, RT, LR, RB. 4x3 = 12. There may be a little more (e.g .3-4 passives without activation), but not much. ~15 Edited July 30, 2021 by DragonsKnight_

[SOULCASTER]

The guild thrives and does so over now 17 years because of its own community.

 

The NGE was an absolute nuke on the population of the game. The game died after that, sure we stuck around and did good for a few years, but the game as a whole was in horrible shape after the NGE.

 

It is the nature of MMOs to live in cycles and phases and eventually do something that causes its population to leave.

 

Whenever the next SW MMO comes out, our guild will be there too...

 

Sincerely doubt your guild was thriving more before the NGE (which let players start as jedi, vs having to do a 4-12 month jedi grind to unlock it in precu and cu before the NGE). Your main character and guild lead toon were also a starter (non elder jedi) when i first saw you in 2005 after the NGE. Im not saying you didnt have an activr guild pre-NGE, but to really think the NGE didnt bring life to your JEDL guild when new players could start the game as Jedi seems interesting to say. Maybe youre right. You’d know best afterall. I was an Elder Jedi (CU) and dont remember JEDL before the NGE.

 

Regardless SWTOR will never be a sandbox. Yes there are awesome things from SWG pre cu, cu and NGE, but swtor is not that. In fact there are things Swtor does waaaay better than SWG (like graphics and combat). So is it ideal to prune abilities down and simplify the game? No, but if you did NiM raiding and Rated PvP you’d probably see some of the imbalances and like you said, all MMOs have ebbs and flows of balance changes. 7.0 is another one.

Edited July 30, 2021 by SOULCASTER

[OrionSol]

Sincerely doubt your guild was thriving more before the NGE (which let players start as jedi, vs having to do a 4-12 month jedi grind to unlock it in precu and cu before the NGE). Your main character and guild lead toon were also a starter (non elder jedi) when i first saw you in 2005 after the NGE. Im not saying you didnt have an activr guild pre-NGE, but to really think the NGE didnt bring life to your JEDL guild when new players could start the game as Jedi seems interesting to say. Maybe youre right. You’d know best afterall. I was an Elder Jedi (CU) and dont remember JEDL before the NGE.

 

Regardless SWTOR will never be a sandbox. Yes there are awesome things from SWG pre cu, cu and NGE, but swtor is not that. In fact there are things Swtor does waaaay better than SWG (like graphics and combat). So is it ideal to prune abilities down and simplify the game? No, but if you did NiM raiding and Rated PvP you’d probably see some of the imbalances and like you said, all MMOs have ebbs and flows of balance changes. 7.0 is another one.

 

 

I ran JEDl SlTH ARC ST-O JTD and MANDO guilds on Bria. I had 5 rank 5 player cities

 

I had many accounts as did many others. The fact that "you don't remember JEDl pre-NGE isn't surprising as we had only about 50 members, and pre-cu pre publish 9 we only had 5 members. After NGE we were the largest Jedi guild in all of SWG, as stated by and spotlighted by SOE.

 

JEDl and SlTH guilds did thrive after the NGE, sure, click Jedi and all.

 

That said, the game suffered, the population died . Why? Cookie cutter dumbed down game.

 

I dont want just what is best for me and mine, I want what is best for the game too. clearly you don't get that.

Edited July 30, 2021 by OrionSol

[OrionSol]

Your main character and guild lead toon were also a starter (non elder jedi) when i first saw you in 2005 after the NGE. .

 

I love it when people think they know me and are completely wrong.

 

I was one of the first unlocks on Bria. Most anyone on the server as a Jedi pre-cu knows that. You can see me in Elder Jedi Ghost mode here: End of the video

 

Cho-sen Won became Or-ion Sol after a name change given by SOE during the pre-9 post 10 CU change era.

[SOULCASTER]

I love it when people think they know me and are completely wrong.

 

I was one of the first unlocks on Bria. Most anyone on the server as a Jedi pre-cu knows that. You can see me in Elder Jedi Ghost mode here: End of the video

 

Cho-sen Won became Or-ion Sol after a name change given by SOE during the pre-9 post 10 CU change era.

 

Cool man. Well now that we sorted your honor. I think the rest applies.

[OrionSol]

Cool man. Well now that we sorted your honor. I think the rest applies.

 

Correct, the rest does still apply.

 

Dumb down the game, make it easier for simpletons, the population will suffer and leave.

[SOULCASTER]

Correct, the rest does still apply.

 

Dumb down the game, make it easier for simpletons, the population will suffer and leave.

 

Maybe, they will also gain a lot of new players too. It’s still the only true star wars MMO. And if it goes to mobile or cross platform as people have speculated, probably will gain even more than they lose.

 

SWTOR offers i think probably more Roleplaying than SWG could. Surprised you are worried about the update pruning abilities down but offering more character flexibility.

Edited July 30, 2021 by SOULCASTER

[juanmiranda]

Maybe, they will also gain a lot of new players too. It’s still the only true star wars MMO. And if it goes to mobile or cross platform as people have speculated, probably will gain even more than they lose.

 

I think people seriously overestimate the population of this game. There can't be more then 200k active subs. Just look at Star Forge. Even the randoms now you see are no longer just randoms. Devs wana turn the game into mobile trash and catch some fly by night story players with the hope they will dump a few bucks into the cartel market they could be for a rude awakening. There is no real hype for this game. Steam might have added a few more players temporarily at least but if these changes go live they are guaranteed to lose players. Maybe this time the numbers get so low EA just axes the project and shuts down the studio. They have done it to more successful studios in the past. Also they no longer have exclusive rights to Star Wars. With several new MMO's launching this year and next year the devs should not be trying some drastic changes that noone asked for at this point in the game. There is just not enough reason to stay. The fact about this game is that people already know it exists, they just don't like it. I have friends that played it with me at launch who also played SWG but they just think SWTOR sucks at a fundamental level. Its just a very average WOW clone in space.

[SOULCASTER]

I think people seriously overestimate the population of this game. There can't be more then 200k active subs. Just look at Star Forge. Even the randoms now you see are no longer just randoms. Devs wana turn the game into mobile trash and catch some fly by night story players with the hope they will dump a few bucks into the cartel market they could be for a rude awakening. There is no real hype for this game. Steam might have added a few more players temporarily at least but if these changes go live they are guaranteed to lose players. Maybe this time the numbers get so low EA just axes the project and shuts down the studio. They have done it to more successful studios in the past. Also they no longer have exclusive rights to Star Wars. With several new MMO's launching this year and next year the devs should not be trying some drastic changes that noone asked for at this point in the game. There is just not enough reason to stay. The fact about this game is that people already know it exists, they just don't like it. I have friends that played it with me at launch who also played SWG but they just think SWTOR sucks at a fundamental level. Its just a very average WOW clone in space.

 

Yup, most of that is true. But until there is something better to go to, i think SWTOR is still fun. I do NiM raiding and PvP though. The story is ok but i guess it all depends on what you like doing or what youre looking for out of a subscription game.

[SOULCASTER]

For fun lets say 50,000 people play swtor across all the servers. Each with a subscription and lets say an average of $20 thrown at the cartel market each month ($35/mo total). Still almost $2mil a month to EA/SWTOR. That seems like enough to keep the game/dev team going as long as they want. With 200k subs and $20/mo on cartel its $7mil a month. /shrug Edited July 30, 2021 by SOULCASTER

[juanmiranda]

For fun lets say 50,000 people play swtor across all the servers. Each with a subscription and lets say an average of $20 thrown at the cartel market each month ($35/mo total). Still almost $2mil a month to EA/SWTOR. That seems like enough to keep the game/dev team going as long as they want. With 200k subs and $20/mo on cartel its $7mil a month. /shrug

 

Sounds like a good chunk of change but I believe we are both being extremely generous(hopefully optimistic) with our numbers. If someone was to take the time to document how many people are on each planet/instance/fleet etc I am sure the numbers would be much much lower and even still you wouldn't know who is subbed or not. On Steam there is about 6000 so I guess that is the "new" players.

[Soljin]

Correct, the rest does still apply.

 

Dumb down the game, make it easier for simpletons, the population will suffer and leave.

 

Yep. I remember Chosen Won I think... My Jedi was unlocked in the holocron profession grind era and I was really happy after putting in all the work and man I have never felt as stoked as I did that day in a video game...

 

Its funny how some people can be happy to log in to a Jedi with no journey involved and prefer it to the unlock system...People are so overly interested in things being "fair" and "balanced" which is another way of describing homogenized and boring...

 

Depth of systems and your in game journey straight up equals engagement with the game and thus results in a personal investment in the games future...A Loyal player base that wants the game to succeed.

 

This sounds rough but I honestly want SWToR to fail so I can stop playing a crappy game that is firmly crutched by an IP that I love...

 

Bioware either do this game justice or get off the pot!

[SOULCASTER]

I recommend you two check out SWG: Legends emulator if you arent enjoying SWTOR and missing SWG and not already there. Edited July 30, 2021 by SOULCASTER

[FlameYOL]

 

This sounds rough but I honestly want SWToR to fail so I can stop playing a crappy game that is firmly crutched by an IP that I love...

 

Bioware either do this game justice or get off the pot!

 

Its things like these that made me glad I stopped browsing this place regularly, "I don't like the game's state so it must die". There is literally nothing stopping you from playing another game right now.

[Soljin]

Its things like these that made me glad I stopped browsing this place regularly, "I don't like the game's state so it must die". There is literally nothing stopping you from playing another game right now.

 

I also said Bioware should do the SW IP/the game justice...But you focused on the part where I love the Star Wars IP and want them to stop holding it hostage. You went straight for the dark side Rey.

 

My statement was an ultimatum not an absolute...

Edited July 30, 2021 by Soljin

[Soljin]

I recommend you two check out SWG: Legends emulator if you arent enjoying SWTOR and missing SWG and not already there.

 

Most of the EMU servers are post NGE though I did try some of the "Vanilla" SWG EMU servers which were in constant flux nd really inconsistent... As much as I love SWG I don't want to deal with lost characters and Jenky development and random events that don't make sense like a server admin spawning tons of mobs in a city to power level their buddies...Yeah so there is that.

 

That said I did give several EMU servers a go before I decided it just wasn't in a place I could find a home in at that time.

[Ramalina]

Sounds like a good chunk of change but I believe we are both being extremely generous(hopefully optimistic) with our numbers. If someone was to take the time to document how many people are on each planet/instance/fleet etc I am sure the numbers would be much much lower and even still you wouldn't know who is subbed or not. On Steam there is about 6000 so I guess that is the "new" players.

 

From that 6000 or so you need to subtract the long time SWTOR subscribers who switched from either of the old downloaders on the basis that a fast, reliable, and relatively bug free download and update experience is a really nice feature to have in a game.

 

Not sure I'd be willing to go back if the Steam version disappeared.

[Kurj]

From that 6000 or so you need to subtract the long time SWTOR subscribers who switched from either of the old downloaders on the basis that a fast, reliable, and relatively bug free download and update experience is a really nice feature to have in a game.

 

Not sure I'd be willing to go back if the Steam version disappeared.

 

Totally off topic, but is the steam experience that much better? I'm still using non-streaming launcher.

[TrixxieTriss]

Totally off topic, but is the steam experience that much better? I'm still using non-streaming launcher.

 

They seem to be about the same. Both can have issues. But the big caveat for steam is you can’t use a VPN with steam. So you can’t use steam if you use something like WTFast or other VPNs to help with connection issues with swtor.

[SOULCASTER]

Most of the EMU servers are post NGE though I did try some of the "Vanilla" SWG EMU servers which were in constant flux nd really inconsistent... As much as I love SWG I don't want to deal with lost characters and Jenky development and random events that don't make sense like a server admin spawning tons of mobs in a city to power level their buddies...Yeah so there is that.

 

That said I did give several EMU servers a go before I decided it just wasn't in a place I could find a home in at that time.

 

While I have seen all of what you're talking about, I can say SWG: Legends doesn't have any of that for the past several years. Great dev team, better than live really, going strong. I just dont play it much because it does lack that LIVE server feel, meaning they dont want to do any major balance updates. They want to leave the classes as is. Balance updates is something I mostly like about live servers, so I'm back on SWTOR for now. We'll see how 7.0 goes.

[Meurik]

while everyone wants to have ALL 3 ABILITIES

 

Do not presume to speak for everyone, thank you very much. I much prefer the idea of "ability pruning", as the game is incredibly ability-bloated as is. I realize some people may want to keep all these abilities, but when some of the abilities does largely the same thing as other abilities, it's mostly a flavor of animation that sets them apart.

[TrixxieTriss]

Do not presume to speak for everyone, thank you very much. I much prefer the idea of "ability pruning", as the game is incredibly ability-bloated as is. I realize some people may want to keep all these abilities, but when some of the abilities does largely the same thing as other abilities, it's mostly a flavor of animation that sets them apart.

 

Explain how any of those 3 abilities do the same thing or even have the same utility to them? Do you even play the same game as us?

Your trying to say the only difference is the animation. You clearly don’t understand the game or the classes or their abilities.

Have you even played the game since 2012?

Have you tested these changes on the pts vs live in pvp or mastermode or veteran mode pve content?

 

The game doesn’t have much ability bloat. Maybe one or two abilities per class could be pruned, but most are useful. Some less so. Saying the game is incredibly ability bloated shows you don’t play the game much or play harder content. It’s hyperbole and over stating the facts.

 

Which makes me wonder if this is another Bioware throw away account to counter the bad PR these changes are driving. Sure seems like a lot of really old accounts with little posting history are all of a sudden really interested in defending these changes.

 

These arguments are superficial and easy to deconstruct when you poke a little. That is why I’m going out on a limb to say Bioware are using old accounts to try and discredit feedback and justify the changes. It’s a sure sign of desperation if it’s true.

Edited August 2, 2021 by TrixxieTriss

[Sareeph]

Sounds like a good chunk of change but I believe we are both being extremely generous(hopefully optimistic) with our numbers. If someone was to take the time to document how many people are on each planet/instance/fleet etc I am sure the numbers would be much much lower and even still you wouldn't know who is subbed or not. On Steam there is about 6000 so I guess that is the "new" players.

 

MMO populations from 2020

[TrixxieTriss]

MMO populations from 2020

 

What’s sad is Star Citizen is still in alpha testing and has more players than swtor

[Meurik]

Have you even played the game since 2012?

 

Yes. I just don't frequent the Forums much (or at all).

Have you tested these changes on the pts vs live in pvp or mastermode or veteran mode pve content?

 

I would, if I could. But the only guide I find for accessing the PTS is either outdated or inaccurate, as my launcher doesn't have the option for accessing the PTS environment, and my account page doesn't have a PTS Character Copy option.

Saying the game is incredibly ability bloated shows you don’t play the game much or play harder content. It’s hyperbole and over stating the facts.

 

In my opinion, it is indeed ability bloated. I may not play the game 24/7, and indeed have taken occasional breaks since 2010. But I am well aware of how to play the game, done Master Mode Flashpoints (and some Raiding).

Which makes me wonder if this is another Bioware throw away account to counter the bad PR these changes are driving. Sure seems like a lot of really old accounts with little posting history are all of a sudden really interested in defending these changes.

 

Don't really care what you believe. I have just 1 account, and played the game off and on since it was in Beta.

That is why I’m going out on a limb to say Bioware are using old accounts to try and discredit feedback and justify the changes. It’s a sure sign of desperation if it’s true.

 

Believe what you will. Change is difficult for some people. Learn to adapt.

Edited August 2, 2021 by Meurik