Jedi Guardian Feedback

[LJ_Gibbs]

George Lucas saw this coming...

 

https://imgur.com/a/k46XhOG

[TheRandomWolf]

George Lucas saw this coming...

 

https://imgur.com/a/k46XhOG

 

This is a no-brainer. The whole 'console' meme is exhausting; it's been a decade already. And it'll never be as popular as the PC counterpart. It's unlikely it'll ever happen.

 

But even if it does... I doubt it'll be shared with the PC servers. Not even Zenimax could do it for The Elder Scrolls Online. So, why not apply these simplifications to console but leave PC as it is? It's what TERA and others game did.

Edited July 17, 2021 by TheRandomWolf

[Savej]

No, no, I understood your premise. I agree with your premise. It's the conclusion I disagree with.

 

It's true Summit put in little effort so far, it's true he doesn't understand his abilities, gearing, etc... I am saying that you shouldn't attribute any support for this pruning to a Summit/Shroud. Unless I missed the part of his stream where he said there was too many abilities. That's the only part I disagree with.

 

I'm just going to say: nobody, no matter how good they are at games in general, _should_, in any serious game, be able to hop on an endgame character cold and be able to play it as well as people that have spent dozens/hundreds/thousands of hours getting to know the character and the game.

[juanmiranda]

If devs are interested in making the game less about "rotating DCD's" then don't take abilities away. The combat animations/gameplay is one of the only reasons I still PVP in this game. Even after getting rid of Ravage and giving PT that silly transformers backpack that spawns on his back to shoot a pointless AOE that noone uses the combat still looks great. Remove certain DCD's and mobility skills instead. Merc has become such a terrible joke that even the worst players can sit there and survive while not deserving said survivability. Meanwhile DPS Juggs and Maras have to get all sweaty to survive.

 

I would remove the following abilities:

1. Reflect bubble from Merc. He doesn't need it and the player base to this day has still not figured out to CC the Merc when he pops it

2. Mad Dash because you don't need it. If you want mobility use intercede which gives you much greater mobility and choice of where you are gona go instead of just a straight line. The damage it causes is negligible while with intercede/reckoning then furious strike or Hew you are gona drop a massive hit on your nearest opponent. Plus you are giving an ally damage reduction.

3. Remove Holotraverse from Op because he don't need it. If he tells you he does need it to survive then he doesn't know what he needs.

4. Remove teleport from Sniper because Sniper does not need that. Any real Sniper has survived just fine without it and it makes the real Snipers unkillable. The other Snipers need to just learn how to play their tanky DPS class with teleport.

5. Big time cooldown on phase walk.

6. Remove Tacticals because all they did was further unbalance the game

7. Make Jugg saber deflection give the same resistance as Concealment OP roll.

8. Buff Hatred please.

[DjiiniTwo]

I would remove the following abilities:

1. Reflect bubble from Merc. He doesn't need it and the player base to this day has still not figured out to CC the Merc when he pops it

2. Mad Dash because you don't need it. If you want mobility use intercede which gives you much greater mobility and choice of where you are gona go instead of just a straight line. The damage it causes is negligible while with intercede/reckoning then furious strike or Hew you are gona drop a massive hit on your nearest opponent. Plus you are giving an ally damage reduction.

3. Remove Holotraverse from Op because he don't need it. If he tells you he does need it to survive then he doesn't know what he needs.

4. Remove teleport from Sniper because Sniper does not need that. Any real Sniper has survived just fine without it and it makes the real Snipers unkillable. The other Snipers need to just learn how to play their tanky DPS class with teleport.

5. Big time cooldown on phase walk.

6. Remove Tacticals because all they did was further unbalance the game

7. Make Jugg saber deflection give the same resistance as Concealment OP roll.

8. Buff Hatred please.

 

1) Ah, yes, because we should balance around people being bad LEL?

2) I actually pretty much agree with this. It's a foolish ability; that said, you know that Sents/Maras don't have Intercede, right?

3) Hell nah, bugger off. I don't need it to survive but I love having it just to get around faster in open world activity. Imagine having a basically-melee class without a gap closer. If anything, they still need to move Holotraverse and Jetpack Charge EARLIER in their respective kits.

4) Yep.

5) Yep.

6) This isn't wrong, but this game was never going to be balanced anyway and most people would rather keep their tacticals for screwing around.

7) Yep.

8) I'm largely neutral on this matter.

 

Also, DPS Juggs have to get sweaty to survive? Grit Teeth is literally stronger than anything Merc has lmao, somebody seems a tad bit biased.

Edited July 17, 2021 by DjiiniTwo

[DsevenO]

Freezing force also takes them out of stealth, you don’t need cyclonic slash.

It’s also useful in Hutt ball to slow the ball carrier instead of white barring them with a stun.

Also useful in Void Star tunnels to delay the enemy so your lead guys can cap.

And let’s not forget when an operative is behind you. The AOE slow from freezing force is 360” and can give you sometime to get way.

Using Cyclonic slash is a waste of energy resources to find a stealth. If.you are doing that, you are doing it wrong.

Freezing force has so much more utility than cyclonic slash. Which does F all damage for an AOE. It’s a useless ability.

 

I've found sweeping slash to also be very useful in combination with Cut to Pieces due to the the bloodbath ability. It should have its rage cost cut to 2 though and have the 25% damage boost utility rolled into baseline, with a removal of the utility. At any rate, I wouldn't throw a fit if they removed it from the game. There are obviously more important things that they are removing (via "choice") that need to be addressed.

[Slipshadow]

I'm just going to say: nobody, no matter how good they are at games in general, _should_, in any serious game, be able to hop on an endgame character cold and be able to play it as well as people that have spent dozens/hundreds/thousands of hours getting to know the character and the game.

 

Who even came close to suggesting that was the case?

Edited July 17, 2021 by Slipshadow

[DsevenO]

Hi everyone,

 

Following up on the post I made a couple days ago. We wanted to bring clarity to some of the feedback we’ve been reading. First, we would like to share our philosophy on reducing the number of defensive cooldowns available.

 

Over several years and updates, more and more defensive cooldowns and abilities have been added to the game. Often times this was for class balance purposes, to allow some classes to keep up with others in terms of their defensive kit. Additionally, this was done without adjusting things like Operation boss mechanics which were designed around the class kits available at the time: mainly less defensive cooldowns. The sheer quantity of defensive cooldowns in the game today makes things more difficult to balance for both PvE and PvP. It has made some PvE mechanics completely avoidable, and made the time-to-kill metric in PvP grow steadily to the point where we are approaching tedious levels.

 

In 7.0, we want to reduce the quantity of defensive skills overall, across all classes, making for a more balanced and enjoyable experience in both PvE and PvP content, while at the same time making the defensives that remain more impactful and fun.

 

What does this look like in both modes?

• In PvP, our intent is balanced, more dynamic player encounters that move away from rotating defensive cooldowns and move more towards utilizing a broader set of skills in each class’s kit.
  
• In PvE, our intent is to take into account these changes, and adjust NPC encounters as needed to compensate.
  

Getting a bit more specific, we also intend to give upgraded versions of abilities when being presented as a choice. Here’s one example using Blade Blitz from the current PTS:

• Blade Blitz in the Live game:
  
• 45 second cooldown
  
• Quickly rush forward 20 meters, dealing weapon damage to enemies in your path and increasing your defense chance by 100% while blitzing. Cannot be used while immobilized or hindered.
  

Blade Blitz on PTS:

• 35 second cooldown
  
• Quickly rush forward 20 meters, dealing weapon damage to enemies in your path and increasing your defense chance by 100% while blitzing. Can be used while immobilized and purges movement-impairing effects when activated.
  

Instead of spending utility points to upgrade abilities, as in the current system, you will be presented with an already upgraded version of several abilities to choose between leading to more interesting decision making, customization, and greater choice for your kit.

 

In addition to defensive cooldowns, we want to streamline other abilities where it makes sense. For example, instead of dedicating an entirely separate ability and button press to a particular effect, we want to merge or combine them with others in an intuitive way. We can see this in action on the PTS with Freezing Force:

 

• Freezing Force is removed from Guardians on the PTS, but a modification to Blade Storm via the new ability choice tree upgrades Blade Storm into an AoE that also slows. This offers a similar effect to the old ability, but in a more efficient way.
  

The intent of the new ability system, which will replace the current utility points system, is that players can make meaningful choices to accommodate their play style or situational needs. Players will be able to pick their own ability modifications and customize their skills in this manner, with all of those choices able to be saved to a Loadout. Loadouts will be able to be swapped with similar ease to the current Utility point system. While the ability choice interface and Loadout features are still in development, those experiences are core to the system and we are working hard to get them to a state where they can be shared on the PTS in a future update. We will share more details in the future on both of these features.

 

One of the reasons we wanted to share these class changes with our players so early is because we wanted to get your feedback as we are still in the design phase of several other classes. As stated previously, you are not playing a final product. While very rough around the edges, the earlier we can share impactful changes like this the more we can take into account your feedback as we continue building out the remaining classes and iterating on ones you’re able to try out on the PTS.

 

Lastly, for this phase of PTS, the Jedi Guardian was missing both their breaker (Resolute) and interrupt (Force Kick). We understand that players may be worried about what that means for 7.0. It was never our intention to completely remove these from the game. We realize this has caused confusion, so we are going to add these back for the next phase of PTS with the caveat that they may change form in the future. We are currently iterating on different ways of utilizing breaker functionality that doesn’t necessarily require an independent icon on your hotbar as well as considering where interrupts fit in with the overall class and encounter design of 7.0. Because of this, we didn’t include these in the testable ability sets on PTS.

 

Please keep in mind that breakers and Interrupts will remain in-game, they just might not appear in the same form as they are now.

 

Thank you for playing PTS and giving us your constructive feedback.

 

Sorry, this doesn't make me feel one bit better. You're still forcing us to choose between vital dcds. You can dress them up with additional little tweaks all you want, but ultimately you're taking away defensive viability from a class that needs it the most and calling it "choice" and "meaningful". Get used to these buzzwords people, you're going to be hearing them a lot. Oh, and while you're at it, take a look at the number of dps jugg/guardians on the ranked leaderboards. There's a reason you won't find any. SMFH.

 

Breaker and interrupt potentially combined? Are you nuts? And breaker without player input? Wtaf? *I* want to choose when to use my breaker, not the game.

 

This just gets worse and worse...

[DsevenO]

Nobody likes pvp games where nobody dies

 

Play a dps jugg or pt in ranked and report back.

[Clonelimit]

With PTS now live, you can help test the Combat Style for the Jedi Guardian.

 

Please answer the following questions:

• Does this feel like a Jedi Guardian? Please explain why or why not.
  
• Is there anything that feels missing or out of place in the combat rotation?
  
• What are your initial thoughts with the effectiveness of the Jedi Guardian against enemies?
  
• How are you enjoying or not enjoying this class?
  
• If you have feedback on the different disciplines and ability paths, please note your feedback accordingly so we can track it.
  

Feel free to answer in as much detail as possible to help us understand your thought process and line of thinking. Please include the specific Discipline and ability path you chose.

 

Thank you!

 

Hi there.

 

I have played multiple accounts since beta, since the uproar about the proposed changes and being a fan of the game since launch. I decided to download the pts and test for myself and provide feedback. I play rage Jug as my main. My answers follow the order of your questions. Playing Rage with focused burst / sweep template.

 

My initial thoughts are no it does not feel like a guardian.

 

:sy_companion:doing the onderon dailes and getting cc'd every single time I leap into combat and losing a third of my health because I cannot escape, is just immersion breaking. I dont want to use the few dcds i have in the first few seconds of a fight. I don't want to send my companion in to take the stun so i can start my rotation. it feels like im playing catch up. Eat the stun. use dcds start combat later. NPC'S that stun at the start of combat are going to frustrate to no end , outside of that it still feels clunky, heavy. I'm struggling to control multiple standard npc's and a single elite in combat.

 

the outcome of my previous comments means that my answer is No. I do not feel like its effective in combat.

 

I have tried to come in with a good attitude and give it a good go, but its not me. its not my juggernaut / Guardian experience I am not enjoying it. I should be able to pick up any template you give me with juggernaut and play it reasonably well given my time with it on live servers, but this isn't the case. I'm going to give it a few more hours on the pts, and see if I can discover some joy with the class.

 

without having a in game overlay/window that describes the templates/abilities clearly (unless ive missed it somehow) I cant provide in depth feedback on that. I don't want to cross reference with forum descriptions etc. in game testing should be clear and information READILY available.

 

Yes im aware the abilities page can give me descriptions of skills as im dragging them to my UI bars. If you want us to test your content. spend the time developing the UI to make it easy to view and assess all relevant information

Edited July 17, 2021 by Clonelimit

[DiamondNemke]

If devs are interested in making the game less about "rotating DCD's" then don't take abilities away. The combat animations/gameplay is one of the only reasons I still PVP in this game. Even after getting rid of Ravage and giving PT that silly transformers backpack that spawns on his back to shoot a pointless AOE that noone uses the combat still looks great. Remove certain DCD's and mobility skills instead. Merc has become such a terrible joke that even the worst players can sit there and survive while not deserving said survivability. Meanwhile DPS Juggs and Maras have to get all sweaty to survive.

 

I would remove the following abilities:

1. Reflect bubble from Merc. He doesn't need it and the player base to this day has still not figured out to CC the Merc when he pops it

2. Mad Dash because you don't need it. If you want mobility use intercede which gives you much greater mobility and choice of where you are gona go instead of just a straight line. The damage it causes is negligible while with intercede/reckoning then furious strike or Hew you are gona drop a massive hit on your nearest opponent. Plus you are giving an ally damage reduction.

3. Remove Holotraverse from Op because he don't need it. If he tells you he does need it to survive then he doesn't know what he needs.

4. Remove teleport from Sniper because Sniper does not need that. Any real Sniper has survived just fine without it and it makes the real Snipers unkillable. The other Snipers need to just learn how to play their tanky DPS class with teleport.

5. Big time cooldown on phase walk.

6. Remove Tacticals because all they did was further unbalance the game

7. Make Jugg saber deflection give the same resistance as Concealment OP roll.

8. Buff Hatred please.

 

Funny how almost every point you made here is completely wrong:

 

1. Reflect is extremely useful in PvE. Not our problem people are stupid in PVP so they can't CC.

2. Mad Dash is one of the best, if not the best defensive in the game. Plus it is one of the biggest signature of jedi knight.

3. Holotraverse is extremely useful in some encounters, just like every other ability.

4. I agree with sniper teleport, it is completely useless.

5. Sages have already too many movability with short cd on force speed. Plus, phasewalk is annoying in pvp, so giving it shorter cd would just lead to less balance.

6. Tacticals are great, you just need to learn to use them with different sets.

7. Saber reflection is good enough as it is now.

8. Hatred is viable even now. Every class is viable. I know Focus guardian who deals more dmg than any Vigilance in most encounters. Plus, Hatred is amazing in pvp because people are too dumb to counter it.

Edited July 17, 2021 by DiamondNemke

[Savej]

Who even came close to suggesting that was the case?

 

Anyone thinking Summit should be able to play a max level character in this game remotely competetently (unless he's played this before). Or that the interface or number of buttons on a max level characters screen should be newbie friendly.

[DiamondNemke]

He can't expect to be PvP god after 3 days of playing the game. We are better of without snowflakes like him.

[DsevenO]

The forums are not the playerbase. They are the small, 5% of players who are not busy playing the game.

 

What's your point? We've taken time away from the game to voice concerns about proposed changes to the game. And?

 

I. personally, would enjoy them pruning the abilities nobody needs (yet someone out there will want me dead for daring to ask for it to be pruned). We don't need 3 AoE abilities on tanks, we need 1 on a 4-8 sec cd with a 2nd, spammable, action built into our single target that'll do 75% of that to everyone nearby. That's 2 abilities pruned already that wont affect gameplay (I mean, c'mon, who is going to argue we need discharge AND wither AND lacerate when a 6 sec cd Wither plus saber strike dealing 75% to nearby foes could do the trick without 'dumbing down' the rotation that could be handled just by spamming lacerate right now).

 

I've been through enough games over 20 years that when things like this happen, the forums always erupt and the game always does it and people still play it that I am only concerned that they might make a class I play frequently boring so I have to switch. Thankfully since I have every advanced class right now, I'm not worried there wont be at least one I enjoy.

 

There were plenty of proposed pruning options included in that post. You're not adding anything new here. The fact that you can play an alternate class because the changes to this one suck doesn't constitute an argument.

 

Oh, and while we're on the topic of how long you've been gaming, and you've seen yada, yada, yada. How did that NGE go over with SWG? The phrase "lead balloon" comes to mind.

Edited July 17, 2021 by DsevenO

[TevosisHot]

The forums are not the playerbase. They are the small, 5% of players who are not busy playing the game.

 

I. personally, would enjoy them pruning the abilities nobody needs (yet someone out there will want me dead for daring to ask for it to be pruned). We don't need 3 AoE abilities on tanks, we need 1 on a 4-8 sec cd with a 2nd, spammable, action built into our single target that'll do 75% of that to everyone nearby. That's 2 abilities pruned already that wont affect gameplay (I mean, c'mon, who is going to argue we need discharge AND wither AND lacerate when a 6 sec cd Wither plus saber strike dealing 75% to nearby foes could do the trick without 'dumbing down' the rotation that could be handled just by spamming lacerate right now).

 

I've been through enough games over 20 years that when things like this happen, the forums always erupt and the game always does it and people still play it that I am only concerned that they might make a class I play frequently boring so I have to switch. Thankfully since I have every advanced class right now, I'm not worried there wont be at least one I enjoy.

Well then why did they ask for feedback on forums and not Tikk tokk? saw the post on twitter and reddit get the same negative reaction, must we wait until the changes go live and this becomes real? You think that is this goes live and it ends up being a *****torm Bioware will have the ability to go back to what it was before? Lmao right...

 

Also no to spammable abilities thanks, I don't want to feel like a bot spamming my "look ma im tanking" button, I played other games that use that and it's boring as ****, I'd rather learn and use what tool is better for each situation than just mash butttons like a mad person. This is a tab targetting mmo based on gcd usage and everything revolves around that, this isnt a moba.

Also bold assumption with the you will be able to enjoy some other class, so let's say someone gets their main nerfed to unfun territory, it's ok since you will be able to play something else? what if said player leaves? Who is gonna tank fp's? Heal ops? I'm glad you're not in charge of class balance changes.

[TrixxieTriss]

 

I would remove the following abilities:

1. Reflect bubble from Merc. He doesn't need it and the player base to this day has still not figured out to CC the Merc when he pops it

2. Mad Dash because you don't need it. If you want mobility use intercede which gives you much greater mobility and choice of where you are gona go instead of just a straight line. The damage it causes is negligible while with intercede/reckoning then furious strike or Hew you are gona drop a massive hit on your nearest opponent. Plus you are giving an ally damage reduction.

3. Remove Holotraverse from Op because he don't need it. If he tells you he does need it to survive then he doesn't know what he needs.

4. Remove teleport from Sniper because Sniper does not need that. Any real Sniper has survived just fine without it and it makes the real Snipers unkillable. The other Snipers need to just learn how to play their tanky DPS class with teleport.

5. Big time cooldown on phase walk.

6. Remove Tacticals because all they did was further unbalance the game

7. Make Jugg saber deflection give the same resistance as Concealment OP roll.

8. Buff Hatred please.

 

Good suggestions that have been suggested for years.

 

And there are other passive utilities or even gear that could be tweaked first to reduce TTK if that’s an issue.

Abilities themselves don’t really need to be removed. Some abilities that are never used in PVE could be limited to PVP and visversa.

If an ability is making a class OP in one format but not another, then limiting its use in that format is an option too.

 

Lastly if TTK was such an issue for Guardians in pvp (especially ranked), why were they always focused first and destroyed instantly? Why did you then add Grit Tooth tactical to help increase our TTK and survivability?

 

It’s not the abilities that increased TTK in pvp, it’s your removal of specific pvp gear and adding horizontal pve gearing and tacticals with insane survivability traits.

When we had pvp gear and expertise, you could tweak and balance easier than now. This is a problem of your own making. Own up to it!

This whole notion that DCDs have made it hard to balance is wrong. You are lying to yourselves and us if you think that’s true. Maybe some passives and utilities have increased it a little bit, but not abilities per say.

You’ve created your own balance issues and made it harder for yourselves with ALL the gear sets and tacticals.

The horizontal gearing system is what’s making your balancing harder to do, not the class abilities. Trying to convince us otherwise is disingenuous and you’re lying to yourselves as well as us if you don’t understand that.

 

 

Please stop and consider the situation and how much time you’ve left in the year to launch an unbroken expansion.

If you go ahead with what you’ve announced, you will do more damage to the game and drive more players away than you’ll bring in because it will break both pvp and pve boss balance and you don’t have time to fix it properly without bugs.

Edited July 17, 2021 by TrixxieTriss

[TrixxieTriss]

Delete Edited July 17, 2021 by TrixxieTriss

[Slurmez]

Hi everyone,

 

Following up on the post I made a couple days ago. We wanted to bring clarity to some of the feedback we’ve been reading. First, we would like to share our philosophy on reducing the number of defensive cooldowns available.

 

Over several years and updates, more and more defensive cooldowns and abilities have been added to the game. Often times this was for class balance purposes, to allow some classes to keep up with others in terms of their defensive kit. Additionally, this was done without adjusting things like Operation boss mechanics which were designed around the class kits available at the time: mainly less defensive cooldowns. The sheer quantity of defensive cooldowns in the game today makes things more difficult to balance for both PvE and PvP. It has made some PvE mechanics completely avoidable, and made the time-to-kill metric in PvP grow steadily to the point where we are approaching tedious levels.

 

In 7.0, we want to reduce the quantity of defensive skills overall, across all classes, making for a more balanced and enjoyable experience in both PvE and PvP content, while at the same time making the defensives that remain more impactful and fun.

 

What does this look like in both modes?

• In PvP, our intent is balanced, more dynamic player encounters that move away from rotating defensive cooldowns and move more towards utilizing a broader set of skills in each class’s kit.
  
• In PvE, our intent is to take into account these changes, and adjust NPC encounters as needed to compensate.
  

Getting a bit more specific, we also intend to give upgraded versions of abilities when being presented as a choice. Here’s one example using Blade Blitz from the current PTS:

• Blade Blitz in the Live game:
  
• 45 second cooldown
  
• Quickly rush forward 20 meters, dealing weapon damage to enemies in your path and increasing your defense chance by 100% while blitzing. Cannot be used while immobilized or hindered.
  

Blade Blitz on PTS:

• 35 second cooldown
  
• Quickly rush forward 20 meters, dealing weapon damage to enemies in your path and increasing your defense chance by 100% while blitzing. Can be used while immobilized and purges movement-impairing effects when activated.
  

Instead of spending utility points to upgrade abilities, as in the current system, you will be presented with an already upgraded version of several abilities to choose between leading to more interesting decision making, customization, and greater choice for your kit.

 

In addition to defensive cooldowns, we want to streamline other abilities where it makes sense. For example, instead of dedicating an entirely separate ability and button press to a particular effect, we want to merge or combine them with others in an intuitive way. We can see this in action on the PTS with Freezing Force:

 

• Freezing Force is removed from Guardians on the PTS, but a modification to Blade Storm via the new ability choice tree upgrades Blade Storm into an AoE that also slows. This offers a similar effect to the old ability, but in a more efficient way.
  

The intent of the new ability system, which will replace the current utility points system, is that players can make meaningful choices to accommodate their play style or situational needs. Players will be able to pick their own ability modifications and customize their skills in this manner, with all of those choices able to be saved to a Loadout. Loadouts will be able to be swapped with similar ease to the current Utility point system. While the ability choice interface and Loadout features are still in development, those experiences are core to the system and we are working hard to get them to a state where they can be shared on the PTS in a future update. We will share more details in the future on both of these features.

 

One of the reasons we wanted to share these class changes with our players so early is because we wanted to get your feedback as we are still in the design phase of several other classes. As stated previously, you are not playing a final product. While very rough around the edges, the earlier we can share impactful changes like this the more we can take into account your feedback as we continue building out the remaining classes and iterating on ones you’re able to try out on the PTS.

 

Lastly, for this phase of PTS, the Jedi Guardian was missing both their breaker (Resolute) and interrupt (Force Kick). We understand that players may be worried about what that means for 7.0. It was never our intention to completely remove these from the game. We realize this has caused confusion, so we are going to add these back for the next phase of PTS with the caveat that they may change form in the future. We are currently iterating on different ways of utilizing breaker functionality that doesn’t necessarily require an independent icon on your hotbar as well as considering where interrupts fit in with the overall class and encounter design of 7.0. Because of this, we didn’t include these in the testable ability sets on PTS.

 

Please keep in mind that breakers and Interrupts will remain in-game, they just might not appear in the same form as they are now.

 

Thank you for playing PTS and giving us your constructive feedback.

 

Translation - Everytime someone gets promoted they have their own ideas that they are emotionally invested in and believe they are the greatest thing ever, in addition dumbing down the game to basic binary choices will allow us to tap that sweet console cash with a port and maybe even mobile money as smartphones are so powerful now they can run the archaic engine we built this game on!!!

 

Im pretty confident this is their gameplan, its a massive strip out of what they spent a great deal of time implementing and no matter how they dress it up its absolutely removing choice and variety

[Mec_san]

I would remove the following abilities:

1. Reflect bubble from Merc. He doesn't need it and the player base to this day has still not figured out to CC the Merc when he pops it

2. Mad Dash because you don't need it. If you want mobility use intercede which gives you much greater mobility and choice of where you are gona go instead of just a straight line. The damage it causes is negligible while with intercede/reckoning then furious strike or Hew you are gona drop a massive hit on your nearest opponent. Plus you are giving an ally damage reduction.

3. Remove Holotraverse from Op because he don't need it. If he tells you he does need it to survive then he doesn't know what he needs.

4. Remove teleport from Sniper because Sniper does not need that. Any real Sniper has survived just fine without it and it makes the real Snipers unkillable. The other Snipers need to just learn how to play their tanky DPS class with teleport.

5. Big time cooldown on phase walk.

6. Remove Tacticals because all they did was further unbalance the game

7. Make Jugg saber deflection give the same resistance as Concealment OP roll.

8. Buff Hatred please.

 

 

 

I am not going through all the point cause as i will say there is a lack of knowledge of the skills...Just want to see point 2 and 7....

 

You want to take away mad dash cause for you is useless.. and you want to add a side effect of mad dash (yeah this ability gives you immunity to damage while active) to another defensive that is already powerful enough (seriously.. that defensive, saber REFLECT , is perfect, not overpowered like "i cheese everything" but not weak.. It's like every single tool : if you use it correctly is perfect, if you use it just because is there , is not really useful)

And said that.. tacticals unbalance the game... and the add that you want to do doesn't? Ok....

 

Coming to my feedback:

I see 40 pages of "please do not do it, this way is not going to work ecc ecc". And i agree. I hope you are going to think about this and rework the defensives.

If you want to make content harder, various and not just a faceroll, there is one really simple way..

1) Take away cap and rebalance the boss in a correct way, SM GF that is doable with lvl 70 gear.. SM no GF that you need 75 , hm that you need 75 306 and nim that you need at least 286 augments.

2)make one shot mechanic one shot mechanic and not "yeah i pick a massive laser in the face and i get only 0.5% damage".

 

Taking away ability is not the way... Can understand a rearrange or a rebalancing .. but i must be able to choose if use a certain ability or not.. for pvp i use more this.. for pve boss A i need more this, for pve boss B i need that other.. i need this for spike damage that instead of taking away 80% of health it take away only 50% ecc ecc. That is variety.

Also.. speaking about variety.. removing the cap allow people to use power and mastery relic if they want...power augments ecc, not touching abilities, just removing the cap.

 

 

I am not begging or nothing, game is yours and you do what you want. Money that i spend for this game are mine. Still waiting for next phases to test and maybe see some things that atm we cannot see or maybe there will be some improvements. But if the way is "nerf the classes, that means nerf the bosses and make everything faceroll friendly... well... there are a lot of mmo around.

Sorry for being harsh, but i am not known for taking long roads.

Edited July 18, 2021 by Mec_san
Missed quote

[KnightTyler]

I main Jedi Guardian Defense discipline. Loadout A & B both tested, up until the point when I went back to choose Loadout B, it always gave me A. Also, the "Blade Burst" passive that is supposed to replace Freezing Force and make Blade Storm AoE slow isn't in any of the discipline's loadouts.

 

Does this feel like a Jedi Guardian? Please explain why or why not.

 

It feels like some kind of Jedi. Not necessarily a Jedi Guardian. Its missing too many important themes of a Jedi Knight Guardian... saber reflects, lightsaber throw, executing acrobat feats to AoE control the battlefield, foresight of the Force with unrivaled reflexes and practiced physical precision to evade and counter enemy attacks, force powers used in conjunction with elegant lightsaber tactics. A valiant, determined Guardian of peace defending his allies...

 

Is there anything that feels missing or out of place in the combat rotation?

 

Not in the "rotation" per say, but the overall kit of the class feels reduced. Lost Freezing Force AoE slow, lost Dispatch execute, lost Blade Blitz, lost Saber Reflect or Enure, lost Saber Throw, lost Awe, lost Force Clarity (which should've never been an ability, its never been worthy of a slot. Always should've been a passive proc), and Resolute & Force Kick weren't available but you already made a post regarding that.

 

What are your initial thoughts with the effectiveness of the Jedi Guardian against enemies?

 

I mean... there's just story content which is beatable with anything. Its not like people are queuing up for warzones and creating raid groups. Personally, I really don't have to play specific content though to know how the class is going to behave in that content just because I know the kits so well that if something is lost or missing I notice it. Everybody has differing opinions of what each class/discipline should have, but most importantly you need to develop kits that thematically fit the role and discipline so that we FEEL like the class and discipline we are playing. This is the most important aspect of class development. The "math" can all be adjusted to fit the theme, but the theme NEEDS to be accurate.

 

How are you enjoying or not enjoying this class?

 

I've always enjoyed the Guardian. There's definitely things I've wanted added but the overall feel of the Defense Guardian has mostly been accurate. This current iteration feels half baked.

 

If you have feedback on the different disciplines and ability paths, please note your feedback accordingly so we can track it.

 

I played them all but really don't feel like commenting on any but the Defense Guardian.

 

I used to would stay up and come up with all kinds of ideas and share them on these forums, discord, save things to my OneNote, write ideas down in my notebooks but its always felt like its been a waste of my time and fallen on deaf ears. I'm commenting now because I do care about this game, the community, and especially the Jedi Guardian class so I'm going to voice my opinion.

 

In regards to the Combat Style changes in 7.0, I think this is a welcome addition to the game! It will now allow you to decouple advanced classes from story and allow you to make more advanced classes to add to the game without creating whole new stories for additional classes. Finally a workaround without having to voice and write brand new class stories from scratch.

 

In regards to the new combat system's "customization", its essentially going to lead to everyone choosing a cookie cutter build just like WoW's "choose 1 of these 3 talents per tier". I personally think its best to just let us choose passives if you are going to go this route. Don't force us to choose between active abilities. Nobody wants to choose between Saber Reflect or Enure because that's not a choice. The majority of people are going to get Saber Reflect because it is integral to feeling like a Jedi Knight. You could also add "upgraded" versions of abilities we already have, but don't make us choose an ability that we already had over another one just to get the upgraded version. That's not fun.

 

I also think its a bad idea to take away abilities that fulfill important roles, like Awe. Awe is the only AoE control Guardian has and its a soft stun at that. Having AoE control in PvE is very useful for a Tank buying time/controlling against adds and in PvP AoE control is absolutely necessary to help make Tanks viable. If a Tank cant force targets to attack him in PvP, they have to be able to control enemies, reduce damage for allies, and be enough of a nuisance that the enemy is forced to deal with them. Its the only way tanking can work in PvP.

 

Also, Guardians should be the epitome of defensive cooldowns, especially Defense Guardians. I see no reason for this to change personally because its what the class is about. The problem with survivability now is self inflicted because you've given too many classes stuff they didn't need just to streamline things more. You listened to PvP only people say operatives needed a roll, operatives needed this and that. You gave everyone leaps and rolls and just too much mobility. You gave dang commandos and mercenaries a reflect... that also heals... that's not thematic for that class at all and they should never have received a reflect. Even operatives and scoundrels got a reflect in their Heroic utility selection. Reflecting stuff should be a Jedi/Sith thing only.

 

How about take a step back, and focus on what each class is truly about and what it should feel like. If a non force using class needs mobility, find something that fits thematically. If a non force user needs survivability, make it make sense to their theme.

 

In regards to interrupts and breakers, that new Swords of Legends MMO has a stun break you have to move left and right really fast and a little bar pops up to show a meter that builds as you move faster to break it. Interrupts are important for MMO's, I'm curious what you have planned for this. Also have you considered silences for specific disciplines?

 

And finally, why not start communicating with the player base IN REAL TIME on Discord or in-game on the PTS? Discuss changes, give us ideas, act like a family instead of a corporate entity. I know a small minority of people can be crazy but the majority isn't like that. Discuss changes, tell us why you are going for this, why you are going for that. You want people to live stream? You want people to chat? You want to make this game stand out more you have to put as much into it as the passionate players do.

[commanderwar]

Hi everyone,

 

 

 

Lastly, for this phase of PTS, the Jedi Guardian was missing both their breaker (Resolute) and interrupt (Force Kick). We understand that players may be worried about what that means for 7.0. It was never our intention to completely remove these from the game. We realize this has caused confusion, so we are going to add these back for the next phase of PTS with the caveat that they may change form in the future. We are currently iterating on different ways of utilizing breaker functionality that doesn’t necessarily require an independent icon on your hotbar as well as considering where interrupts fit in with the overall class and encounter design of 7.0. Because of this, we didn’t include these in the testable ability sets on PTS.

 

Please keep in mind that breakers and Interrupts will remain in-game, they just might not appear in the same form as they are now.

 

Thank you for playing PTS and giving us your constructive feedback.

 

 

 

May I suggest for the breaker you look at what Wildstar did. Basically if I remembered correctly when you were stun, there would be a bar above your head, you had to press a random button on your keyboard repeatedly fast until the bar filled up. As an example lets say you got stun, you would see a bar above you and with a letter next to it, you would repeatedly push that button/letter on the keyboard until the bar filled up and you would break free

 

This would be the funniest way to add a stun breaker

 

Also as a side note, in wildstar, if I remember correctly, if you were knock down to the ground, let say from force push, you would roll to get back up fast. ( roll was not an ability on the bar in wildstar, it was just push the back button twice) . However this would require giving everyone roll.

 

if my first suggestion is not an option, and your putting the breaker on an ability, I would say I think, you should get rid of every stun from PVE enemies in open world. imo

Edited July 18, 2021 by commanderwar

[KnightTyler]

P.S maybe also make a thread with ability/passive ideas so we can help you brainstorm? Interact with us.

 

Here's some "combination" ideas to free up some slots for Guardians:

 

• Force Leap becomes Guardian Leap baseline? 2 charges default and it will leap to either an enemy and function just like Force Leap does now, or if targeting an ally it does what Guardian Leap does now. Force Push adds 1 charge.
  
• Slash could change dependent on how enemies are within so many meters of you? So Slash becomes Cyclone Slash when 3 or more enemies are near you maybe? Turns 2 abilities into one AND keeps animations.
  
• Force Clarity needs to go. Should have never been an ability. It has never felt impactful to your class when you press it, it needs to go. Could have always been a passive instead of an active ability.
  
• Combine Freezing Force animation with Blade Storm? Keeps animation present but gets rid of ability slot
  
• Combine the effects of Enure with Focused Defense and just call it Focused Defense?
  
• Instead of having an execute for Tanks, how about just making it so Tanks have a passive like Gather Strength utility all the time that also could guarantee critical hits if Guarded Target is attacked? Gives them more overall damage without having an execute.
  
• Make Force Stasis "Stasis Field" for Defense discipline which is just an AoE Force Stasis that gives Tank spec back AoE control?
  
• Make Force Push function like Enabling/Disabling companion abilities works? While checked its Force Push but while unchecked its Force Pull? Allows you to fulfill class based force fantasy and still maintain balance by forcing it to go on cooldown when it is checked/unchecked.
  
• Make some kind of "passive Saber Reflect" damage all the time for Guardians? Like a permanent Rebuke. This would help fulfill class fantasy so much then you could add more passives for this.
  
• Introduce new ability for Guardians/Juggernauts called Force Repulse/Force Maelstrom. Defensive Cooldown that replaces slot where Enure would've been. Jumps in air gathering energy, reflecting everything for 3 seconds and then AoE force pushing enemies? Only usable while at critical health? I'll always suggest this. I really think it would add to the theme of the Jedi Knight/Sith Warrior. If you've played Force Unleashed you know how cool this is.
  

 

Also, I've always enjoyed the proactive "foresight with the force" mechanics the Jedi Knight Guardian has. Blade Turning allows you to mitigate 100% melee and ranged attack for the first 2 seconds which requires proper timing to help mitigate damage. Blade Blitz works the same way. Saber Reflect short duration needs to be popped at the right time. Focused Defense needs to be used when enemies are going to attack you, if they don't attack then you don't get heals. Proper timing of cooldowns can make Guardians seem invincible. "A source of inspiration to allies and intimidation to adversaries..." I really like this thematic aspect of the Jedi Guardian. It allows for everyone to just jump in and play "moderate skill floor" but to master it you have to be knowledgeable about your class and other aspects of the game "higher skill ceiling".

 

I personally would like to see more "counter-attack" options similar to Riposte. Soresu Form and Shien Form is all about that. Maybe even incorporate some Djem So Form into the class. It'd be nice to see stuff that requires proper timing to keep with the theme.

[Mec_san]

And finally, why not start communicating with the player base IN REAL TIME on Discord or in-game on the PTS? Discuss changes, give us ideas, act like a family instead of a corporate entity. I know a small minority of people can be crazy but the majority isn't like that. Discuss changes, tell us why you are going for this, why you are going for that. You want people to live stream? You want people to chat? You want to make this game stand out more you have to put as much into it as the passionate players do.

 

That and moderation in real time in game would be appreciate. Too many toxic people that need to be treated every 3 seconds.

Edited July 18, 2021 by Mec_san

[Caelvin_Williams]

With PTS now live, you can help test the Combat Style for the Jedi Guardian.

 

Please answer the following questions:

• Does this feel like a Jedi Guardian? Please explain why or why not.
  
• Is there anything that feels missing or out of place in the combat rotation?
  
• What are your initial thoughts with the effectiveness of the Jedi Guardian against enemies?
  
• How are you enjoying or not enjoying this class?
  
• If you have feedback on the different disciplines and ability paths, please note your feedback accordingly so we can track it.
  

Feel free to answer in as much detail as possible to help us understand your thought process and line of thinking. Please include the specific Discipline and ability path you chose.

 

Thank you!

 

I created a new Jedi Guardian on PTS tonight (7/17) and tested both Defense A and Defense B because I have played with a Defense Guardian since February 26, 2012 as my main character. After teleporting to the Fleet, I went to the mailbox and got all my subscriber freebies including Nico Okarr. Knowing the companion you receive is level 1, I went to the companion gift vendor in the Galactic Trade Market area and purchased a lot of underworld goods to bring his companion rank to 20. After purchasing both Lord of Pain and Descent of the Fearless gear as well as Ear, Implant, Tactical (Leviathan’s Hide), and two Relics (Shield Matrix and Avoidance), I tested in the Onderon daily missions. Just prior to conducting these tests on PTS, I ran the same missions on my level 75 Jedi Defense Guardian on the Live Server so I could have a true comparison.

 

When choosing a Discipline on PTS, please note that the coding is messed up for Defense B. When you choose Defense B, it responds saying “Setting you to Defense A” instead. It does give you Defense B abilities however even though it says it is setting you to Defense A.

 

Does this feel like a Jedi Guardian? Please explain why or why not.

 

NO – neither Defense A or Defense B felt like a Jedi Defense Guardian tank for the following reasons:

 

(1) On Defense A the following abilities were missed: Awe, Blade Blitz, Dispatch, Enure, Force Clarity, Force Kick (apparently unintentional), Freezing Force, Resolute (apparently unintentional), Saber Throw.

 

(2) On Defense B the following abilities were missed: Awe, Blade Blitz, Dispatch, Force Clarity, Force Kick (apparently unintentional), Freezing Force, Resolute (apparently unintentional), Saber Reflect, Saber Throw.

 

(3) The missing abilities combined with the slow cooldown of the remaining abilities resulted in long gaps where I was just watching and waiting for the cooldown to finish and it was VERY BORING.

 

(4) I read your post where you state that Force Kick and Resolute were unintentionally excluded from our abilities. That is a good thing because the only thing which was equally as frustrating as waiting for the cooldowns to finish was waiting for the stuns to end since I had no stun breakers on Defense A or B. During the “Cleaning up the Streets” mission, the first thing that happened when I attacked the NPCs, I got stunned and before the stun wore off, my companion was dead.

 

(5) The missing Saber Throw ability completely ruins the Jedi Guardian because tanking should include being able to choose the location of your fight and you have removed the only distance attack available to the Jedi Guardian. This is completely UNACCEPTABLE! Instead of being able to “pull” the enemy NPCs to me, I have to go to them and potentially fight them in an area where you can pull aggro from another group of enemy NPCs, This results in combat that is not graceful like a jedi but a grand melee. While I never died in unexpected combat from pulling additional mobs on Onderon, my level 20 companion died within seconds of those fights (this does not happen on Live server). The fact that I survived did not make it ok and neither Defense A or Defense B felt like a Jedi Defense Guardian should feel in the Onderon daily missions.

 

(6) The missing Saber Throw ability completely ruins the Jedi Guardian because tanks have to sometimes pull back NPCs that run off to attack your companion/teammates. During the “Cleaning up the Streets” mission, when I used Force Leap to attack Chuckles, one of the other two NPCs ran/leaped to the companion. Normally, I would saber throw to bring the NPC back to me rather than move the fight to the companion by using Guardian Leap. You have ruined the feel of the Jedi Guardian by removing Saber Throw.

 

(7) The loss of Blade Blitz makes the Jedi Defense Guardian seem slow and clunky. The Jedi Defense Guardian should also be able to race forward spinning the lightsaber in attack. You want your bounty hunter to wield a gun and a rifle? Great, I want my Jedi Defense Guardian to be able to race in to attack and not just leap every time. This does not feel like a Jedi Guardian without Blade Blitz.

 

(8) You know what else is boring? Taking forever as a tank to kill NPCs. The loss of Dispatch means yet another offensive ability is gone…the second highest damaging ability that was already limited to targets below 30% health.

 

(9) While I did not need Saber Reflect AND Enure for solo missions on Onderon, I would certainly need them both for Flashpoints and Ops. As others have stated and I agree, it makes no sense to have to rework all the flashpoints and ops. Jedi Defense Guardian should have both Saber Reflect and Enure.

 

(10) You can keep your Awe, Force Clarity, and Freezing Force if you will just give me back Blade Blitz, Dispatch, Enure AND Saber Reflect, Force Kick, Resolute, AND Saber Throw. Without Blade Blitz, Dispatch, Enure, Force Kick, Resolute, Saber Reflect, AND Saber Throw this is not a Jedi Defense Guardian.

 

Is there anything that feels missing or out of place in the combat rotation?

 

Blade Blitz, Dispatch, Enure, Force Kick, Resolute, Saber Reflect, AND Saber Throw are missed and those missing abilities combined with the slow cooldowns feels out of place as I could walk into the next room and make tea waiting for something to do.

 

What are your initial thoughts with the effectiveness of the Jedi Guardian against enemies

 

This question misses the point entirely. Effectiveness does not equal fun. If a character is effective and can survive fighting 12 NPCs but I can go make tea while it does it, this is BORING and NOT FUN. So you have created an effective but really BORING class.

 

How are you enjoying or not enjoying this class?

 

I am ABSOLUTELY NOT enjoying this class. You have made the Jedi Defense Guardian slow and boring.

 

If you have feedback on the different disciplines and ability paths, please note your feedback accordingly so we can track it

 

I have been a subscriber since February 26, 2012 and I am begging you to not streamline ability sets because there is no way to maintain the unique identity of any class by removing so many abilities that we now associate with the classes. The changes you have made to the Jedi Defense Guardian are not fun and are boring.

[Lord_Arawn]

Here's some "combination" ideas to free up some slots for Guardians:

 

• Force Leap becomes Guardian Leap baseline? 2 charges default and it will leap to either an enemy and function just like Force Leap does now, or if targeting an ally it does what Guardian Leap does now. Force Push adds 1 charge.
  
• Slash could change dependent on how enemies are within so many meters of you? So Slash becomes Cyclone Slash when 3 or more enemies are near you maybe? Turns 2 abilities into one AND keeps animations.
  
• Force Clarity needs to go. Should have never been an ability. It has never felt impactful to your class when you press it, it needs to go. Could have always been a passive instead of an active ability.
  
• Combine Freezing Force animation with Blade Storm? Keeps animation present but gets rid of ability slot
  
• Combine the effects of Enure with Focused Defense and just call it Focused Defense?
  
• Instead of having an execute for Tanks, how about just making it so Tanks have a passive like Gather Strength utility all the time that also could guarantee critical hits if Guarded Target is attacked? Gives them more overall damage without having an execute.
  
• Make Force Stasis "Stasis Field" for Defense discipline which is just an AoE Force Stasis that gives Tank spec back AoE control?
  
• Make Force Push function like Enabling/Disabling companion abilities works? While checked its Force Push but while unchecked its Force Pull? Allows you to fulfill class based force fantasy and still maintain balance by forcing it to go on cooldown when it is checked/unchecked.
  
• Make some kind of "passive Saber Reflect" damage all the time for Guardians? Like a permanent Rebuke. This would help fulfill class fantasy so much then you could add more passives for this.
  
• Introduce new ability for Guardians/Juggernauts called Force Repulse/Force Maelstrom. Defensive Cooldown that replaces slot where Enure would've been. Jumps in air gathering energy, reflecting everything for 3 seconds and then AoE force pushing enemies? Only usable while at critical health? I'll always suggest this. I really think it would add to the theme of the Jedi Knight/Sith Warrior. If you've played Force Unleashed you know how cool this is.
  

 

Your ideas are great, no kidding, you should be in the developer group. I always wanted to see Force Maelstrom in the game! So many great ideas, that would really generate a great change for the classes in this thread, it's a shame that Bioware doesn't accept any and stick with the same idea that made them create this thread.