Jedi Guardian Feedback

[duranterich]

Tanking is really a PvE role, so better to have it work well there and poorly in PvP than the reverse.

 

I will have to disagree with you there. I've been using a Guardian/Jugg Tank in PVP for about a year, and it can completely change a match, not even comparing it to ranked.

 

As a healer in PVP, I LOVE it when there is a competent tank guarding me. Taunt reduces all damage received on friendly players if the enemy player(s) isn't/aren't attacking you.

 

Tanking in PVP in this game is as viable as PVE, and more enjoyable because I get to wear DPS gear (at least for me).

 

Some of these changes have me worried.

[DarthZeroe]

Tried out Vigilance B.

 

Does this feel like a Jedi Guardian? Please explain why or why not.

It still feels like a Guardian, but reduced in it's capability. The most glaring thing is the cut on our DCDs, one of the advantages of being a Guardian is being tanky even if you're DPS. That's not really there now.

Is there anything that feels missing or out of place in the combat rotation?

I feel like I have slightly fewer options outside the main rotation, but Guardians never had a wide arsenal of attacks to begin with, so I can't say it's a big difference.

 

What are your initial thoughts with the effectiveness of the Jedi Guardian against enemies?

The damage dealing is solid, survivability is not.

 

How are you enjoying or not enjoying this class?

To be honest I'm more confused than anything as to why all the passives/defensives have been split now. I get you're trying to 'simplify' the ability paths to make our bars less bloated or something, but making us pick our passives/defensives isn't a great way to do it. I'm just imagining what playing in Vet FPs would be like with only one or two defense abilities. It doesn't look fun.

 

If you have feedback on the different disciplines and ability paths, please note your feedback accordingly so we can track it.

I don't think making us choose one DCD over another is a good idea. It just reduces our effectiveness by making it harder to survive in group content. Having to choose some attack abilities over another I can live with, as long as the core abilities are intact.

 

So yeah, this definitely need some work.

Edited July 12, 2021 by DarthZeroe

[lordoftransform]

With PTS now live, you can help test the Combat Style for the Jedi Guardian.

 

Please answer the following questions:

• Does this feel like a Jedi Guardian? Please explain why or why not.
  
• Is there anything that feels missing or out of place in the combat rotation?
  
• What are your initial thoughts with the effectiveness of the Jedi Guardian against enemies?
  
• How are you enjoying or not enjoying this class?
  
• If you have feedback on the different disciplines and ability paths, please note your feedback accordingly so we can track it.
  

Feel free to answer in as much detail as possible to help us understand your thought process and line of thinking. Please include the specific Discipline and ability path you chose.

 

Thank you!

Let me just preface by saying I know this is an early iteration of the PTS, so I won't jump to conclusions. That being said, I am basing my feedback on what I see now and the assumption that this is mostly indicative of the final product.

I've been a vengeance main for years, and I've done nearly all content in the game, over 99% of achieves, etc. Much of this has been done with vengeance/vigilance, a class that I love. This doesn't feel like a jedi guardian, I'm missing key filler like my saber throw, or useful tools like force stasis and push. The effectiveness of vigilance in both preset variations against enemies is greatly reduced, especially without focused defense, my aoe taunt giving me aoe DR and my other very much needed cooldowns. If the trend is to take away cooldowns from vigilance guardians, then please stop, we actually need them. Unless you're going to retool every encounter in the game, we are getting unjustifiably nerfed for no reason. If you want to ability prune classes, this isn't one that needs it at all. The fact that I don't have reflect or mad dash on one variation seriously hampers gameplay and defensive viability. I'm not enjoying this at all, and all I am hoping for is that in 7.0 I can have the same abilities I do now, both defensive and offensive, as every ability on vigilance is needed and useful (except for riposte). Guardian, especially vigilance is in a very good place right now and doesn't need to be gutted and neutered. I know that this is likely falling on deaf ears, but please don't nerf us to the ground via the removal of our CDs, forcing us to pick between them when we used to have them all. In some fights, we need all of them, like NiM Izax. Everyone I know was initially excited after the stream because we thought we were merely going to be able to swap to a sorcerer tree as it currently is on the same toon that initially would've only been able to be a juggernaut or marauder, not this. This doesn't feel like I'm getting greater freedom, this feels like I have a meal with two sides, and the sides are taken away from me, and I can only pick one, and that's called a "choice". I hope that whatever the final product is, it isn't an abject nerf that removes survivability from a class that needs it, because if it is, I don't know if I could ever enjoy this game as I do now. If this is the system that we're going with, I hope that these 2 variations are what a non-guardian could have access to when picking their abilities and that a guardian playing as their native class can keep everything they have now.

[Saggitario]

While keeping in mind how early this system is being introduced, I am very excited for 7.0 from what I’ve seen so far. This “streamlining” the Devs are attempting at here is more so a long overdue spring cleaning in class design. This system feels like what we should have had in 3.0 instead of the discipline and utility system we got.

 

Now, Does this feel like a Jedi Guardian?

 

I can’t speak much to Vigilance, because I have very little time in it; however, for the other two disciplines, they feel fine. Defense feels weird without Saber Throw, but other than that, the rotation is still simple and smooth. The rotation on Focus feels almost better with the specific A and B pathways created (especially A). However, if there’s one downside other than the lack of choice and completion in this unfinished progression system being tested, it would be the mobility of Focus.

 

Surprisingly, Focus feels too mobile, especially in the [A] path. I’m happy to see that the root break+speed buff on Combat Focus was integrated into the base ability, but the speed buff is twelve seconds long on the PTS and on path [A], the uptime feels overtuned, especially considering it’s also a root break. Granted, this is all under the assumption that dreams come true, and the Dev team cleans out the massive excess of movement modifiers (usually lurking in the utilities) throughout all the classes, otherwise, it’s not overtuned at all. I also really like these options at more direct AOE damage instead of DoT abilities for hitting multiple enemies. It’s a good identity for a front-line brawler like Guardian, and it has been lacking for years, except for the Defense discipline.

 

The only complaint I truthfully have is a simple one, and frankly, I haven’t seen it amid all these pages of childish whining: Please bring back Old Ravage. It is an undeniable cornerstone in both Guardian and Sentinel’s damage rotation and having it back would feel like finally getting the straight block in a game of Tetris.

 

I’ll summarize by saying that Jedi Guardian feels cleaned up. Nothing we’re seeing is finished, but this system will give players very difficult choices toward their build, which will add a lot of meaning to the abilities and passives you end up choosing. I also think the integration of certain utilities into base abilities such as root break on Blade Blitz, cleanse on Enure, 5 second Saber Reflect, etc., have been tasteful so far. That’s not a word I’d usually use to describe SWTOR’s class design choices, but I can honestly see the consideration put in. For instance, the root and slow immunity utility for Focused Defense was not integrated into the base ability, at least not yet, and I think that’s a good decision. Whereas integrating the utility that increases Saber Reflect to 5 seconds and resets Force Leap CD after Force Pushing is another good decision. I’m excited to see class design where teammates will need each other again and Cooldowns will be used with more consideration. If you’re playing solo in an MMORPG, you should feel like things are missing. DPS are meant to have tank and heals with them, not a line of DCDs. Also, bring back Old Ravage.

 

I’ve provided extra insight into my thoughts on the change in abilities for anybody interested. I counted 10-12 missing abilities depending on one’s discipline.

 

• Saber Throw/Awe- while we don’t have the option to use them in this PTS, they are clearly not gone and we even have an idea of what we’ll have to give up for them.
  
• Breaker- Going to assume Guardians will have a breaker and not having this was just a consequence of an early PTS.
  
• Interrupt- ^
  
• Force Clarity- Good riddance.
  
• Reflect/Blade Blitz/Enure- This is most definitely the largest change in this PTS. It hints at an intense pruning of DCDs game-wide so long as every class is faced with decisions like this, and as long as every class is, I think it’s a bold and much needed decision after many expansions that kept adding a new abilities. Referring to these three choices specifically, I think they were the best options out of the Guardian’s DCD kit.
  
• Focused Defense (Vigilance)- I’m going to hope/assume this was a bug and that Vigilance will have FD.
  
• AOE Taunt (dps specs)- Its in line with the rest of the decisions so far to reduce the amount of taunts a DPS discipline will have fun, but perhaps the developers could give the option between the single target taunt and the AOE taunt.
  
• Guardian Leap (dps specs)- If this now going to be tank exclusive, I’m very excited to see how the other tank movement abilities will be handled.
  
• Dispatch- I’d be surprised to see this removed, but as long as Vigilance has the replacement ability and Combat Sentinel keeps it, this is an understandable change.
  
• Freezing Force- This I was surprised to see removed. Even Defense didn’t have it. I don’t think they plan on keeping this removed imo.
  

As it is, there are still three more choices in the Guardian progression system that have not been decided on at levels 45, 65, and 75. With that in mind, I expect some of these abilities to find their way back on my toolbar.

 

[Yezzan]

Response to Focus Guardian Option A

 

Please answer the following questions:

Does this feel like a Jedi Guardian? Please explain why or why not.

 

No, this does not feel like a Jedi Guardian. You have taken away the abilities that make the Class feels like the class. If you want to reduce ability bloating then buffing the iconic abilities would be more appropriate rather than taking then away or adding new abilities that makes the iconic ones obsolete.

 

Is there anything that feels missing or out of place in the combat rotation?

Well, everything feels out of place. Solo play doesn’t really revolve around a rotation but rather TTK and survivability (at least for me). The removal of Saber Reflect, Enure, and awe makes this class feels like a scoundrel.

 

What are your initial thoughts with the effectiveness of the Jedi Guardian against enemies?

It’s difficult to say. It’s not about effectiveness but more about do I like this change…No I don’t. You CANNOT remove Saber Throw and Saber Reflect from the core abilities. I am still upset about the Removal of Disturbance from TK Sage. Do not make the same mistake with Guardian.

 

How are you enjoying or not enjoying this class?

I prefer the old set-up. I thought this maneuverability of play-style would simply be an option to play as another disciple (say, Say. A jedi Guardian could play Watchmen Discipline and have those abilities). The core abilities of the Jedi Guardian would remain ( those skill he would have if he never chose a discipline path). Obviously some skill would have to be swapped out for dual wield like Saber Throw with Twin Saber throw.

 

If you have feedback on the different disciplines and ability paths, please note your feedback accordingly so we can track it.

I chose Focus Guardian Option A. I have no idea why you removed dispatch and there is zero crowd control.

Edited July 12, 2021 by Yezzan

[Lord_Arawn]

I played with Guardian Vigilance A

 

1. Does this feel like a Jedi Guardian? Please explain why or why not.

 

Yes and no. Almost everything was retained, but the iconic and strategic skill Saber Throw was withdrawn. Who here has never seen in movies and games a Jedi throwing his saber? Let Saber Throw as a Jedi Knight skill.

 

2. Is there anything that feels missing or out of place in the combat rotation?

 

Many skills are missing that were used strategically. Saber Throw, Force Clarity, Force Kick and Focused Defense. Add these four skills and it will be perfect.

 

3. What are your initial thoughts with the effectiveness of the Jedi Guardian against enemies?

 

His damage against basic enemies is good, but against certain bosses it is extremely necessary that he has Saber Throw, Force Clarity, Force Kick and Focused Defense. Many bosses demand too much of the character, if for example he doesn't have Force Kick, it will be impossible to defeat some, besides that despite his damage being good, his defense left a lot to be desired.

 

4. How are you enjoying or not enjoying this class?

 

I liked the simplification, but it needs to be improved a lot, because against some bosses it's unplayable, in fact against enemies a little stronger, it's already suffering a lot of damage. The game was tiring, as I ended up dying a lot. If I had joined the game now, I would have grown tired of it.

 

5. If you have feedback on the different disciplines and ability paths, please note your feedback accordingly so we can track it.

 

I understand the focus is on cleaning up the skills a little bit and that's good. My suggestion is to make Force Clarity and Focused Defense passive and remove Guard and taunt, add in their place Saber Throw and Force Kick as active. With that the class will be perfect, maybe even better than the current one.

Edited July 12, 2021 by Lord_Arawn

[phalczen]

• Does this feel like a Jedi Guardian? Please explain why or why not.

I reserve the right to expound on this with more testing, but, again, like in my Defense A feedback, I guess mostly so. As noted below and in my Defense A feedback, at least three skills are missing from my character that I should have per the stickied thread. It feels like a mildly weaker version of LIVE in every respect, but I have sufficient buttons to press and aside from Saber Throw being missing, the rotation is basically the same. The fact that it is largely the same might be because there has been such an awesome job at building the loadout. However, it could also be that if there are broken passives that are intended to CHANGE the rotation or make the two paths/loadouts behave differently, its inadvertently identical.

• Is there anything that feels missing or out of place in the combat rotation?

Well, referring to the original thread here in the spoiler section, I'm supposed to have the following, either as active abilities or passives:

• Blade Burst, Blade Storm becomes AoE and slows.
  This sounds like a passive, I presume it will work like it does for Defense A so refer to my feedback with that. Briefly, its not applying any slows, seems to have a 60+m range of effect but has to be activated within 10m, and the cone feels too narrow especially against melee creatures. It has potential.
  
• Branding Burst
  
• Force Skewer
  
• Critical Conditions
  

None of these last three show up anywhere, despite me talking to the droid three times, and I didn't bother to check the Dr. Oggurobb holo trainer since he didn't work for my tank. So, I have no idea what they do, and therefore no idea if they are working or how they are supposed to make the class feel, except for Critical Conditions. Critical Conditions should be reducing the cooldown on Combat Focus when I get a critical hit with Blade Storm, Vigilant Thrust, or Plasma Brand, but it doesn't seem to be working, on my testing.

 

Trailblazer and Narrowed Focus used to be utilities that are now supposedly part of the B path/loadout. I certainly cannot see them anywhere since Combat Proficiency window is not accessible. I will need to see how much non-periodic AoE damage I get during the Onderon dailies to see if Narrowed Focus is working well.

 

Of course, our interrupt Force Kick is missing, and as others have stated Awe is missing. Vigilance lacks the Stasis Mastery of Defense so the channeled Force Stasis can't effectively do that job, and Vigilance lacks Hilt Bash, but hopefully this is just a bug and not the intended plan moving forward, especially since those abilities won't work against most bosses where interrupts would.

 

As others have noted, Vigilant Thrust is NOT replacing Force Sweep, both skills are still available. Yet Whirling Blade is there instead of Dispatch.

 

The stuns from mobs during Onderon dailies are annoying, but not insurmountable. They hurt of course when your comp is dead, and Vigilance lacks Defiance to fuel Focused Defense, but Focused Defense is missing from Vigilance B path/loadout anyway. Plus, Resolute our stun breaker is missing and I can't believe that's intentional either. Stalwart Defense, a tier 2 utility, doesn't seem to have been turned into a passive, at least not on my ability list, so I certainly miss that, as the mobs in "Cleaning up the streets" tend to stun a lot.

 

The absence of Force Clarity, our new gift with 6.0, and our best offensive CD, does render testing of Descent of the Fearless set bonus impossible. This is definitely not OK for a dps discipline. As I mentioned with my defense A feedback, I dislike the fact that the new gift with 6.0 is being taken away 2 years later, but it was an important part of my Vigilance rotation on LIVE and key synergy with DotF set. I had to talk to the droid twice to get Whirling Blade, the Vigilance replacement skill for the execute ability Dispatch. At least Vigilance B got the execute ability where Defense A did not. I realize a lot of people probably don't like the functionality of a buff that applies stacks that have to be used, and perhaps that's too much thinking on their part in terms of planning. But to me this seems counter-intuitive.

 

Combat Focus was there for me on Vigilance path B, possibly from the beginning but possibly after the 2nd convo with the droid. It might be missing for some people who don't try to talk to the droid several times or don't check their ability window for missing skills. Same with Whirling Blade, I don't think I got it the first time, but definitely have it now. Therefore I'll chalk those things up to bugs, and that its intended to be there for Vigi B and Def A like I experienced.

 

Also, "Purifying Sweep" is indicated to be a capstone ability at level 80 (it's last in the list for Vigi B) but I have it at 75. Not that I'm complaining, since I need it.

 

Saber Throw, which is not available in Vigilance B, serves as a resource generator, filler, and opening move on LIVE. I have to replace it in the Vigilance live rotation with the lackluster basic attack Strike.

 

I'm also missing Freezing Force, but not as much as with Defense A. It was another dot useful to proc Cut to Pieces though. I can live without it in dailies, but in pvp I would definitely miss it as I'd use the speed buff and AoE slow. Someone wrote its part of a passive now? I can't find any indication its there in my Vigi B toolkit or Defense A.

 

The loss of Saber Reflect for dps guardians will have profound impacts, especially if you take Vigilance B like I did and lose Enure. Oh and let's not forget Focused Defense being gone from Vigi B and Awe missing altogether. I'll add more later.

 

As I said in my Defense A feedback, since clearly some existing utilities have been folded into the two loadout options, are we to infer that utilities will go away in 7.0? I don't specifically miss them per se but they never made a difference for me in Onderon dailies.

 

Finally, if there was an ability that I could do without in Vigilance, its probably Riposte. I mean, its a bread and butter thing for Defense and would strongly object to its removal for Defense Guardians. But it isn't really used at all in the Vigilance rotation so if any ability seems like a prime target for pruning, its that one. When it procs, its actually a burden to spend time to use it (even though its off the GCD). Seems to make far more sense to move Saber Throw as an iconic Jedi Knight baseline ability and make Riposte a Defense-only thing.

• What are your initial thoughts with the effectiveness of the Jedi Guardian against enemies?

reserved for future comment. I will say that DoTs that don't get applied because we don't have enough accuracy hurts a DoT-based class' sustained dps. I was able to spend about about an hour fiddling on the fleet vendors to get my item rating up to 306, but never once did I ever roll a weapon, focus, or piece of armor with accuracy on it. Without a Proficient stim on the medical droids, the legacy bonus, and without accuracy enhancements other than the earpiece/implants, I can only get to 107% accuracy. I'm not sure it makes a huge difference in dailies or pvp but in harder encounters it will matter.

 

I feel slower. I don't run the 1.3s global cooldown on LIVE, so I didn't aim for that much alacrity on PTS either, after rolling some pieces on the vendors I have about 10% alacrity (including a 5% from the guild bonus as I joined a PTS guild today). On live I only aim to hit the 1.4s GCD with 7.15% alacrity. But it doesn't feel like I have a 1.4s global cooldown. Star Parse won't recognize the PTS combat log so I can't verify if I'm at the 1.4s GCD or not. If I didn't have the 5% alacrity bonus from this PTS guild I wouldn't be carrying enough to make the 1.4s threshold ... is it possible the guild bonuses are not working on PTS?

 

I definitely feel squishier, part of that is loss of defensive cooldowns and passives that I'm used to on live and part of it is the companion.

• How are you enjoying or not enjoying this class?

I'm just not sure about Vigilance ... I have to be honest that I do not really feel less effective because of the absence of Freezing Force, but I haven't been in content where I would need Focused Defense, Enure, and Saber Reflect, all of which are missing from Vigilance B, other than moments in the Onderon jungles where my companion died and a lot of mobs were shooting at me. As I've said I feel squishier, for several reasons. Since it is pretty clear Enure is intended to be a new (forced) choice, and its synergy with Focused Defense and the Grit Teeth tactical is well known, choosing the B path to maintain blade blitz makes the most sense. Plus there are two new passives and two former-utilities-now-passive-abilities whose descriptions are at least known enough to test. I do miss Saber Throw, but I wonder if it is going to be like the way I miss Full Auto as a vanguard ... yes, it is less buttons for me to press, but it doesn't dramatically change the way the class plays. It's one spot in a 24-button rotation, but it does generate more focus than the basic attack, and its important to have something to deal with snipers (player or NPC) who can keep you at range. I sympathize with everyone who says its an iconic ability, which it is. But, I do think the enhancements to Blade Storm through the Blade Burst passive are pretty neat, especially if the range on the conal is decent. And it doesn't have to be the 30 m of Saber Throw to be decent. So, its not clear that the third option at that level 15 tier is working/implemented, namely Burning Barrage for vigilance A or Kinetic Barrage for defense B. If they are analogous to Focus they would be some sort of damage type modifier for Blade Barrage and add a root. But the choice between a conal snare to Blade Storm, Saber Throw, or rooting Blade Barrage is an interesting one. I'll just have to playtest some more and see how my feelings evolve on this.

• 
  Please include the specific Discipline and ability path you chose.

Vigilance B. Perfect Form set, since there is no point to using Descent of the Fearless. Supplied Kyrprax Versatile Stim

 

As I said in my Defense A feedback, the Kurtob Alliance speeder appears to not be enhancing movement speed at all. It feels even slower than Sprint.

 

As I said in my Defense A feedback, I recommend you put Commander's Compendia on the droids next round. I can live without biochem engineered stims and the 4 class buffs if I have a decent companion at my side.

 

If you do wipe toons, which is to be expected with PTS sometimes, it would be nice to speed up the grind to 306. I don't like wasting an hour of my limited time just to get the character functional.

Edited July 14, 2021 by phalczen

[Alssaran]

I will add some more feedback since I had the chance to try a few more things over the weekend. I'll assume intent for a few points and add suggestions on how to better achieve said intent.

 

Does this feel like a Jedi Guardian? Please explain why or why not.

 

It does, but there are a few but... moments in there.

 

So, first of all - yes, I think the general idea is there. It's a melee class that can spec into survivability and movement. From a basic point of view, I think it's sound. I tested out most A and B skill trees.

 

One thing that immediately came to mind is that Saber Throw is gone. It feels weird. Saber Throw was a resource generation and mob-pulling tool for most of the last decade, so not having access to it is new. I feel that without something to replace it, and that's even keeping in mind it is an available choice, Defense and Vigilance would feel weird. I kind of see the intent behind choosing Saber Throw vs. Blade Burst, which I will get into later, and the idea of resource generation vs. a slow for PvP as opposed to the "have your cake and eat it" situation where you can both generate resources and permanently slow now, but maybe there is a better way to solve this. For example, make Saber Throw baseline and add a stronger passive to that row as a third option that tempts you between upgrading your Blade Storm or Saber Throw. The basic saber throw should be available.

 

Let's talk about Blade Burst next: I believe I'm right to assume Blade Burst is your attempt to move Freezing Force into a passive? I'll honestly say that I like it. It has a lot of potential. Not having Freezing Force didn't make me not feel like a Guardian, but even as a Guardian main I understand how annoying the ability was to play against. Freezing Force coupled with the Persistent Chill utility was a no-brainer. You'd just seamlessly work this non-cooldown, non-expensive ability into your rotation to slow everyone, apply an AoE dot and speedbuff yourself. At that point, you might as well just bake it into a slightly weaker passive. I like the idea of combining the current increase of Blade Storm with Freezing Force into a new passive.

 

Awe: that's something I'm going back and forth on. On one hand, I did like Awe. On the other hand, it is an "oh ****!" button that I feel I could do without provided we have good alternatives to it. The problem with Awe's tier at the moment is that it's not. It's mostly about AP generation. So we have a tier that is one highly useful stun and two AP generators. If AP generation due to the lack of Saber Throw is too minimal, taking one of the other two options is a no-brainer. That means Awe is just permanently locked out unless you take Saber Throw in the first tier. You can't entirely neglect building focus. I'm obviously speculating here since I have neither Awe nor Saber Throw to test, but I imagine we might end up with that.

 

What was sorely missed on all disciplines was Dispatch. It's just a nice and strong filler/execute. However, since I can see passives that modify it, I'll refrain from judging that and simply believe you haven't added it yet.

 

Is there anything that feels missing or out of place in the combat rotation?

 

Overall, I think it feels fine. We just need Dispatch and Saber Throw back. Those two would close up the rotation more and bring it back closer to what it is now.

 

What are your initial thoughts with the effectiveness of the Jedi Guardian against enemies?

 

Decent, but with room for improvement. A companion can make all the difference. On a pure "how much DPS can I do quickly?" level, it feels average. We are in a very weird spot where I don't feel it's terrible, but it could also improve a bit. I honestly can't judge this until we get Dispatch back. Espescially for boss fights below 20%, Dispatch is huge. It gets reset by some of my utilities on live as well and procs above 20%. I honestly can't say until it's in.

 

How are you enjoying or not enjoying this class?

 

I'm enjoying it, but here's a few things it comes back to:

 

First of all, I am still not a fan of the Enure/Saber Reflect/Blade Blitz choice. It feels like you're taking a tad too much because Enure is in there. I feel having Saber Reflect and Blade Blitz in there is fine if the intention is to pick between either more movement or more survivability, and I can dig that. The Enure is what's bugging me. It's a standard cooldown for Guardian players ever since what I like to call "the ancient times." Taking it out leaves a big hole that isn't easily filled. I feel with Enure, Blade Blitz and Saber Reflect all in one choice, you're reducing survivability too much. Between all three of those Enure feels the most important, but I feel it's too important to restrict.

 

Now, here's a suggestion with what is currently there: keep Blade Blitz and Saber Reflect as is for testing. Move Enure to be a baseline cooldown along Saber Ward for a total of two big DCD and make the third choice in that row the Enure improvement from the last one. I feel Enure improvement/Blade Blitz/ Saber Reflect would be good while Enure is baseline. Well, it would be perfect if Enure and Blade Blitz were baseline and Saber Reflect was a specific skill, but baby steps.

 

Consider making Saber Throw a baseline ability as well. It's too iconic to the class and too much of a resource builder without being baseline. Maybe there's a better synergy to be found rather than "you can take Awe if you take Saber Throw and build enough AP. If you didn't take Saber Throw, you'll most likely not take Awe because you want some AP generation." I feel Awe and Saber Throw are too different and the later is too iconic to compete with it this way.

 

Dispatch needs to return. This isn't an "if" or "maybe." I'm literally saying I need Dispatch back for this to feel like Vigilance and Defense.

 

I don't miss Challenging Call on a DPS spec. You can mostly keep that as is. It doesn't change my personal enjoyment at all.

 

I do think Combat Focus also needs to return. However, I can see one ability improves it that is already on the PTS, so again, I'll hold off and believe you're simply not done adding that yet.

 

If you have feedback on the different disciplines and ability paths, please note your feedback accordingly so we can track it.

 

See all my points above. For clarity:

 

1. Saber Throw is too iconic and too important of a filler to be a choice. It should be baseline.
   
2. Enure seems too restrictive in it's current choice. Consider moving the Enure improvement from level 80 to Enure's current position and make that cooldown baseline.
   
3. I am not sure Awe as a stun should compete with two resource-generating abilities. It seems to conflict with Saber Throw (e.g "you can't take Awe if you didn't take Saber Throw because you need some more resources to not be resource-locked".)
   
4. Between Blade Blitz and Saber Reflect, both feel important for different specs. Saber Reflect seems most appropriate and feels best as a Defense Guardian. Blade Blitz seems to fit more with Vigilance. I think you didn't make a bad choice there, but it's possible that movement will become important as a tank.
   
5. Between Defense A and B I enjoyed B more.
   
6. Between Vigilance A and B I enjoyed B more, but some cooldowns were sorely missed.
   

Edited July 12, 2021 by Alssaran

[TheAllmyn]

This does not feel like the origanal class at all. Purging all those abilities makes me feel useless. I want the old system where I can be the full class. I rather have that versus this

 

What can be done better is perhaps instead of limiting what abilies we get. Like A vs B. Let us just choose the guardian class like character select screen. Where you get the full show. So instead of being half of what we could be. We can be the full spec of it.

[darkjohnnysith]

you need to let new players to the test sever how to use it they always asking how to levl up and asking why the have no way to fight it get to be a pain have to tell them to levl up and if you do fell emper lana keps dying she needs and when are you going to be able to pick your dis skills all in its a good clase my fav is the tank calss ive run most all the the stroy and enjoyed it when is teh next clasee coming

[heropindakaas]

i cant test because im on eu

however ive played since like 2015 or 14 ive never made a forum post before but with the changes that are coming i feel like im being given no option

I just want to share my take on it all and if im wrong thank god

because the devs of this game used to be very good it feels like its just madness that hit overnight for no reason at all so again i pray to god this is wrong because i love this game

 

i mained jugg and played my fair share of gaurdian im a casual but the changes im seeing seem to absoluteily ruin the gameplay

i was hoping for more abilities for years

i would always have liked a lightning/choke build that was viable (think malgus or sidious)

alas thats impossible forever now

im only being given back 33% of my original abilities at recieving nothing in return

it feels like a moba game

i cant break from stun with mad dash coz i have to pick between saber throw (which doesnt even stun as compensation)

or saber reflect (the best defensive ability out of these three)

its so dumb and ngl i think this is WORSE than what wow did because at least wow didnt remove a lot of abilities you absoluteily needed

like when i play warlock at least i have like 3-4 additional abilities from my every 5 levels level up reward think shadowburn soulfire etc

i actually have everything i need to survive as well as stun breaks etc even though its been dumbed down in wow

 

however from what im seeing here it just looks like ur removing stuff for the sake of removing stuff

breaking basic class functionality and offering nothing in return

not a new class

no new abilities

just an ability cut

doubt i could still enjoy playing this game unless theres something that replaces these as compensation

in which case it would be okay i geuss? because new animations and skills would be great

but we havent recieved new skills in so long and the vague description seems like you guys arent planning to add any either

ive seen jackie online every day since this was posted but he made not a single comment or response to clear up confusion which leads me to believe these changes are final and they are contemplating what to do with the massive negative feedback (they being bioware)

and they seem like they are just trying to see the response of the community meaning we arent being given a chooise as in these changes are final and they might swap a skill here or there

imo if we all play like a lv 30 jedi knight that lost half its abilities and charm at max level without buffs

itl unironically destroy the game no casual vet or new or ranked player is waiting for these changes

i have a friend whom played till lv 16 but couldnt keep playing coz studies and other issues

and when i told him the stuff in the current pts he was outraged this is a very casual player btw who doesnt even know what raiding is

maybe itll attract extremily casual gamers but they will drop the game after a few weeks or a few days because they figured out everything and theres nothing intresting anymore

this will unironically destroy the game and the community if it gets pushed through which i know it will

its sad but we had a great run swtor its hillarious this **** is being pushed as an aniversary update though

imagine killing your game at its 10 year celebration on purpose because whoever came up with this idea sureily knew the effects this would have unless the entire dev team is out of touch with the player base and that leads to the qeustion ''where did it go wrong?''

so i beg of you

please add new classes or give us MORE abilities or depth to our classes

when i was playing jugg i always thought ''i have so little abilities''

so it being cut is even worse for me

i rather have all classes being fused into one and u can just use what u want than this stuff

thats how bad it is

 

thanks for taking the time to read this

 

ps

no hate to the devs at all im just frustrated with the lack of clarity and communication

be nice to them as they have delivered us content for the past decade and done so much for the community in this decade

their communication and ideas have been good all this time and the communication with players content creators etc is very good especially for an mmo

so please dont say anything hateful to them

[Llacertus]

Does this feel like a Jedi Guardian? Please explain why or why not.

It feels like a watered down version of the class. I think many of us were expecting new abilities to be put in or abilities from other classes to be put in. Not core abilities removed. If this class was released in the current build, no one could play it in pvp.

 

Is there anything that feels missing or out of place in the combat rotation?

Yes, the lack of defensives is the most apparent issue with guardians. For pvp especially, Jedi guardians in dps specs are usually the first target due to their lower mobility, inability to stealth, and their melee range requirement. They are most frontline dps, and they need their core defensives( Focused Defense, Ensure Pain, Intercede, and Mad Dash) if they hope to survive any engagement. Removeable of any one of their defenses severally impacts their survivability since they have so little.

 

What are your initial thoughts with the effectiveness of the Jedi Guardian against enemies?

Initially I thought that all specs would preform poorly against enemies due to the lack of a the furious power set bonus. However, the flawless riposte proved to be a viable replacement, and might perform even better than the furious power set bonus in a pvp context when burst matters more than sustain. The vigilance spec lies in a far worse position however. The lack of furious power heavily removes its damage potential, and the flawless riposte set is practically useless since riposte is rarely in the rotation.

 

How are you enjoying or not enjoying this class?

The class is highly enjoyable when running the flawless riposte set using preset B, however I'd imagine you're enjoyment would drop if you tried to use descent of the fearless.

 

If you have feedback on the different disciplines and ability paths, please note your feedback accordingly so we can track it.

Concerning the focus spec, I believe that the buff of combat focus is actually perfect for the class. It would add sufficient mobility to the class to make it less of a sitting duck when being focused. The increased immediate 12 focus gained + additional focus over time rom combat focus adds additional viability to the flawless riposte set bonus. More focus resources will allow the wearer to continuously refresh concentrated slice and riposte until the autocrit burst comes back up. This combination gives the class a very strong, but necessary burst window for a frontline class that applies no dots. Focus guardians have been heavily underpowered in pvp compared to their counterpart vigilance, and this buff of combat focus for the Focus Spec is the one change that I believe should remain in the final build.

Edited July 12, 2021 by Llacertus

[psikofunkster]

Yes it feels like a guardian for me, however i noticed you are removing an important ability that is reflect, i think i know your intentions you consider it belongs to a tank class exclusively now.

 

I assume then you are gonna remove all the heal abilities for dps mercs and operatives too...

 

Are these changes necesary? NO, nobody ask for them. You guys better create a second new operation (an easy and short one just like EV) instead of messing with the classes IMO.

Edited July 12, 2021 by psikofunkster

[Dyne-]

Does this feel like a Jedi Guardian? Please explain why or why not.

It feels like a watered down version of the class. I think many of us were expecting new abilities to be put in or abilities from other classes to be put in. Not core abilities removed. If this class was released in the current build, no one could play it in pvp.

 

Is there anything that feels missing or out of place in the combat rotation?

Yes, the lack of defensives is the most apparent issue with guardians. For pvp especially, Jedi guardians in dps specs are usually the first target due to their lower mobility, inability to stealth, and their melee range requirement. They are most frontline dps, and they need their core defensives( Focused Defense, Ensure Pain, Intercede, and Mad Dash) if they hope to survive any engagement. Removeable of any one of their defenses severally impacts their survivability since they have so little.

 

This^

 

To the devs:

 

Does this feel like a Jedi Guardian? Please explain why or why not.

 

It does not.

 

The main benefit to playing a Juggernaut over a Marauder is the utility that comes with it. Intercede, force choke, force push (with force charge reset), chilling scream, saber reflect, enraged defense, saber ward, mad dash, saber throw or hew, guard, aoe and single target taunt, ect. These are things that are critical to the identity of the class. A well played Juggernaut is a defender in motion (DPS or Tank). This is why a lot of Juggernaut mains play Juggernaut over the other classes. Yea, as Jugg DPS I don't do as much damage as other DPS specs, but I can do all of the aforementioned. Doing this and doing this well keeps me competitive. It sure as hell isn't my damage or survivability.

 

If you remove the classes utility it will never "feel" like a Guardian again. Also, not having access to intercede, mad dash, (and more than one dcd) on the DPS spec is a death sentence in PVP. You would have to gut the other classes just to make this one remotely playable, and no one wants that.

 

Skank tanks definitely need to go, but the utility *is* the classes identity. If nothing else keep in mind, the class needs to be able to "move like a force user" if it is to "feel" like a force user.

Edited July 12, 2021 by Dyne-

[Unagi]

Does this feel like a Jedi Guardian? Please explain why or why not.

Mostly. I mean, I can to force leap to a mob and bash on it with a single lightsaber. So there's that.

Is there anything that feels missing or out of place in the combat rotation?

Yeah, the offensive rotation seems mostly OK (Focus A and Vigilance A) but the power level is completely out of whack.

What are your initial thoughts with the effectiveness of the Jedi Guardian against enemies?

Onderon dailies with a lvl 1 companion = instant death to 3 standard or 1 silver mob in most cases. No stun breaker or interrupt make most fights pretty rocky. Feels very squishy like a low-level character who has wandered into the big kids' zone and gotten stomped accordingly. Running Heroics on starter planets seems more in line with the level of power in this build.

How are you enjoying or not enjoying this class?

Don't love it. Don't hate it. Eager to see how the discipline/utility choices unfold.

If you have feedback on the different disciplines and ability paths, please note your feedback accordingly so we can track it.

I don't get some of the discipline path restrictions that have been made. Some of "choices" and omissions seem rather arbitrary and incomplete. Looking forward to seeing that onion peeled back.

[Dyvim]

With PTS now live, you can help test the Combat Style for the Jedi Guardian.

 

Please answer the following questions:

• Does this feel like a Jedi Guardian? Please explain why or why not.
  
• Is there anything that feels missing or out of place in the combat rotation?
  
• What are your initial thoughts with the effectiveness of the Jedi Guardian against enemies?
  
• How are you enjoying or not enjoying this class?
  
• If you have feedback on the different disciplines and ability paths, please note your feedback accordingly so we can track it.
  

Feel free to answer in as much detail as possible to help us understand your thought process and line of thinking. Please include the specific Discipline and ability path you chose.

 

Thank you!

 

You are asking the wrong questions. Here are the right questions:

 

1. Why are you expending this level of effort instead of adding quality content to the game...you are actually removing content by removing skills and gameplay options. What are you thinking?

2. The current classes have evolved over a decade. They have been balanced over a decade. They are not perfect, but a massive amount of effort and feedback has gone into them. If you are dumbing them down, and are worried about the "feel" of the class remaining intact, because you are asking about it, you are again fundamentally going down the wrong path. Why?

3. To redo all the classes/disciplines and account for all the complexities that have evolved with their interactions in the content (pvp, raids, etc.), there is NO way you can deliver a product of this scope that is adequate. The systems are too complex, with too many dependencies...please show me the massive community demand for this change in direction of the product and this choice for expenditure of dev resources? WHAT DEMAND are you responding to?

4. I have played this game since launch. Played SWG since it launched before that...the comparisons to the NGE are inescapable. That was DISASTROUS and also unwanted. It was born out of a completely misguided effort to change the game because a group of idiots decided they could make the game into something it was not...a wow clone. So what is the REAL motivation here? Dumb it down to console level? Appeal to a customer demographic that doesn't exist at the expense of the current one that does?

5. How far down this rabbit hole are you going to go before you come to your senses? All the way and then try and cram it down your userbases throats? Expending all this effort in the hopes that people still recognize the class? What the hell is the point in that? Leave it alone and you wont have to worry about HOW IT FEELS to people.

 

Finally:

 

6. You are extending the level cap to 80. But classes will have fewer skills. You are going to try some shell game of picking between passives we already had, skills we already had, and choices we already had to create this illusion that MORE choice is going to be created FROM FEWER options. That is idiotic...it is obviously idiotic. The idea in an MMO is to learn your class as you level and as you add abilities that build on each other...that is how you justify 80 friggin LEVELS. So as you expand levels you are stripping ACTUAL capability. THIS IS INSANE. What are you thinking?

Edited July 13, 2021 by Dyvim

[ceickerman]

Does this feel like a Jedi Guardian? Please explain why or why not.

 

I am more well versed in Vigi. Overall, I do feel like I'm playing a vigi guardian.

 

Is there anything that feels missing or out of place in the combat rotation?

 

Saber throw. I use saber throw as a focus builder and I miss it dearly. Gutting our DCD's is going to severely impact our survivability in PvP.

 

What are your initial thoughts with the effectiveness of the Jedi Guardian against enemies?

 

Despite the lack of companion survivability, I haven't had a problem staying alive during encounters in PvE. I do anticipate huge problems staying alive in PvP.

 

How are you enjoying or not enjoying this class?

 

I only intend to test Vigi since it's the spec I'm familiar with. I've only leveled tanks and I haven't messed with focus at all. My enjoyment playing the class has not diminished but I do want my saber throw back XD

[ceickerman]

You are asking the wrong questions. Here are the right questions:

 

 

1. Why are you expending this level of effort instead of adding quality content to the game...you are actually removing content by removing skills and gameplay options. What are you thinking?

2. The current classes have evolved over a decade. They have been balanced over a decade. They are not perfect, but a massive amount of effort and feedback has gone into them. If you are dumbing them down, and are worried about the "feel" of the class remaining intact, because you are asking about it, you are again fundamentally going down the wrong path. Why?

3. To redo all the classes/disciplines and account for all the complexities that have evolved with their interactions in the content (pvp, raids, etc.), there is NO way you can deliver a product of this scope that is adequate. The systems are too complex, with too many dependencies...please show me the massive community demand for this change in direction of the product and this choice for expenditure of dev resources? WHAT DEMAND are you responding to?

4. I have played this game since launch. Played SWG since it launched before that...the comparisons to the NGE are inescapable. That was DISASTROUS and also unwanted. It was born out of a completely misguided effort to change the game because a group of idiots decided they could make the game into something it was not...a wow clone. So what is the REAL motivation here? Dumb it down to console level? Appeal to a customer demographic that doesn't exist at the expense of the current one that does?

5. How far down this rabbit hole are you going to go before you come to your senses? All the way and then try and cram it down your userbases throats? Expending all this effort in the hopes that people still recognize the class? What the hell is the point in that? Leave it alone and you wont have to worry about HOW IT FEELS to people.

 

Finally:

 

6. You are extending the level cap to 80. But classes will have fewer skills. You are going to try some shell game of picking between passives we already had, skills we already had, and choices we already had to create this illusion that MORE choice is going to be created FROM FEWER options. That is idiotic...it is obviously idiotic. The idea in an MMO is to learn your class as you level and as you add abilities that build on each other...that is how you justify 80 friggin LEVELS. So as you expand levels you are stripping ACTUAL capability. THIS IS INSANE. What are you thinking?

 

I think you might benefit from reading this post https://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=994963

 

We're scratching the surface here; we're not testing something they intend to go live with.

[Dyvim]

I think you might benefit from reading this post https://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=994963

 

We're scratching the surface here; we're not testing something they intend to go live with.

 

Of course I read that...it is BS. If you think this ISN'T going live, just like it is now, more or less, you are new to the MMO industry. They don't actually want our feedback. This has already been coded and is being released in a beta form.

This isn't some proof of concept...that was already done internally, and the decisions were already made internally. Now this is just PR. Again, they have made the decisions and they are lying about their motivation...their explanation is non-sensical.

 

"Our focus is to equip the player with knowledge and understanding of these abilities so they can make impactful choices when it comes to ability upgrades and customizations. To make the class feel less encumbered and customization more concise, we are working to reduce the quantity of abilities but ensuring that the class remains distinct and unique." I have read this before...basically it is the idea that players can't read and can't handle learning anything even remotely complex. "If only we dumb down the game, we can get more people to play it...we can make it more accessible..." What they are really doing is making it more simplistic, less engaging, and less interesting. Why ADD LEVELs when you are decreasing capability/abilities. Why not CUT THE LEVEL CAP back to 50. At least that would be consistent. I mean, if I am too dumb to read a passive description or understand gameplay mechanics, SURELY counting to 80 is a bridge too far as well....

 

You do NOT increase choice or options by decreasing capability. Letting me choose between a subset of passives and abilities I already have is not MEANINGFUL choice...its gutting the class.

 

The only thing that can stop this is overwhelming negative community response. That takes realization on the part of the community.

Edited July 13, 2021 by Dyvim

[SirrSlaughterr]

It's really sad reading all of these replies one after another and knowing that I feel EXACTLY the same way. This dev team is in the process of destroying a nearly decade old game for what audience exactly? WHO has asked for any of this dumbing down removal of abilities in the community? Simpler does not equal better, has your team not been playing this game for the last ten years? Why would anyone want any of these changes. I admit I was disappointed to learn that combat styles meant altering your class altogether just to use another weapon type and not simply playing a guardian with all guardian abilities and also with a dual saber, but I AT LEAST thought it was a clean swapping of advanced classes and not this horrible removal of everything that makes the class fun to play!

 

I have been here since the beta, playing the game since early launch before day one and I've even been subbed nearly that entire time, and as such I feel like I have a better understanding than most regarding what makes this game great. Since your team seems to like things simple I can make my point simple for you, do this and you kill the game. The player base will abandon this game though we cherish it for something else that doesn't feel the need to cater to an invisible few that must be responsible for this garbage. DO NOT do this!!!

[TrixxieTriss]

With PTS now live, you can help test the Combat Style for the Jedi Guardian.

 

Please answer the following questions:

• Does this feel like a Jedi Guardian? Please explain why or why not.
  
• Is there anything that feels missing or out of place in the combat rotation?
  
• What are your initial thoughts with the effectiveness of the Jedi Guardian against enemies?
  
• How are you enjoying or not enjoying this class?
  
• If you have feedback on the different disciplines and ability paths, please note your feedback accordingly so we can track it.
  

Feel free to answer in as much detail as possible to help us understand your thought process and line of thinking. Please include the specific Discipline and ability path you chose.

 

Thank you!

 

Hi Jackie,

 

I wasn’t sure which thread to post this to ask about some of the changes. So apologies that I’ve made a similar post else where.

 

I’m wondering if the ability pruning is to help with desync or so each combat class has the same amount of load abilities to prevent the UI breaking or causing bugs when people switch load outs or combat styles

 

It would help if we understood the devs reason for pruning abilities. Then people testing could provide better feed back in the right context. So far I think the lack of reasoning is causing most of the anguish players are having.

 

My personal concern is the devs are trying to fix perfomance and are targeting the wrong sort of abilities. For instance if the reason is to reduce desync and improve perfomance, then why prune DCD/interrupt abilities instead of abilities that cause the desync, like speed/mobility abilities or mez/stun abilities.

 

If it’s for another reason like all classes having the same number of abilities, then there will be some concern from players like snipers, etc, who have a lot more abilities than say and Assassin who has the least amount of abilities (Probably not the best example as ones tech and ones force)

 

At the moment I feel we are in the dark too much to understand their changes and it may skew our feedback. I know it’s certainly causing a lot of player anxiety and drama. So I’m reserving my judgment till we get some more info or another iteration of the PTS.

 

But I would really appreciate it if Bioware can provide more info and answer some of the questions I’ve posed because I think it would help with the sort of feed back we give when testing. Knowing what their goal is with the changes will affect how people provide that feed back.

[fyrehearted]

Vigilance A

Does this feel like a Jedi Guardian? Please explain why or why not.

No, this does not feel like a jedi guardian. One of the cool things about Guardian is that if you mess up and start dying you have a bunch of nice abilities you can use to save yourself. While I have most of my dps abilities, I've lost a lot of the more defensive abilities that make the guardian rather versatile. For instance, I was attacked by 10 or 11 ranged mobs. I killed about three or four when my companion's healing abilities were on cooldown, and I got stunned three or four times. I frantically searched for my resolute, my awe, my focused defense, but I didn't have any of those abilities and died. While most of my dps abilities are there, my "fallbacks" weren't.

Is there anything that feels missing or out of place in the combat rotation?Not particularly, though I miss all of my defensive abilities that are the hallmark of the guardian.

What are your initial thoughts with the effectiveness of the Jedi Guardian against enemies?

It's effective until things go wrong. Then you die.

How are you enjoying or not enjoying this class?

I'm not enjoying this class very much. I don't main a guardian, I main an operative. I have a guardian only because I wanted to complete all the class stories, but I fought pretty efficiently with him and liked the gameplay. I am a pretty casual player for guardian, and am struggling greatly.

 

One of the awesome things about SWTOR is how much of the combat style is player choice. This is NOT player choice; this will force players new to a certain class to choose between two skills they don't really know while also removing a lot of the "cushions" that allow players to learn how to play a class. While I agree that there are unnecessary abilities, instead of taking away the "staples" of Guardian, stop adding more abilities in combat proficiencies and instead make 3/4 of them modify an existing ability (also please keep out force clarity and freezing force).

Edited July 13, 2021 by fyrehearted

[Stellalunacat]

Alright so I tested the focus guardian b and the vigilance a loadaout. And I tried to do Onderon dailies, cause that seemed what you wanted us to do.

For me they have similar issues.

I've played both focus and vigilance before though they are not my main characters.

 

 

• It feels sorta like a jedi guardian, but not like a level 75 one. The main dps abilties for both specs seem to be still there, but a lot of defenses and abilities that help a guardian to actually stay alive are gone.
   
  
• For me saber throw is more of a filler, but I still miss it. The flow of the combat seems off without it, especially on killing trash. And it's just fun to throw your lightsaber around.
  The main abilties of both focus and vigilance seem to be there but somehow my guardian feels less powerfull, it takes way longer to kill just trash and cause I have less defences that would help me survive in longer fight, well sometimes I died. So definitly miss some of the dcd.
  Guardian leap is something I don't usually use that often, but I've seen our tank use it sometimes and it's usefull for datacron hunting. Seems now it's just gone and not even optional.
   
  
• Generally I feel less effective doing dailies. Like mentioned above trash took too long to die and sometimes it killed me. Tried to do Onderon weekly but gave up after I got to 8/10 which took me forever. Can't say anything about effectiveness in operation or pvp cause I haven't tried them on pts.
   
  
• I'm not enjoying the jedi guardian on the pts. On live server playing a guardian is fun. When doing dailies, heroics and rampages a guardian is like an unstoppable killing machine. You're fast, you're durable and you do lots of dmg. You jump on stuff, you slam your lightsaber into the ground or you sweep them off their feet, then you throw your lightaber around at a straggler, then you jump again. On the pts everything seems to be slowed down and the pacing seems off.
   
  
• Think that the choice at level 70 between blade blitz, enure and saber reflect seems to be the most problematic in my opinion. As a tank you usually would need all 3, think dps should have at least 2 of them.
  Also the cleanse on enure seems to be a passive now which is alright, but on any fight where you have to cleanse yourself, you pretty much have to take enure and loose out on the other two.
  My vigilance guardian didn't have focused defense, not sure if it was intended like this or if it was just missing.
  Riposte is something I don't really use on dps guardian, think it's more a tank thing.
  So for me it could be removed or turned into something more useflull for the dps specs.
  Slash is also more like a filler and not really that important at higher levels in my opinion.
  

 

The two builds I tested seemed really unfinished, with many abilities missing, even basic ones like aggro drop, interrupt and stun breaker. I assume they'll get added in later builds, but it's not really clear. I can only test what is there, so it might not as bad in the finished build.

I can sorta see what you were going for, like turning some utilities into passives that you can then choose from and trying to cut down on some of the abilities that are not part of the main rotation, by making us choose between some of them.

I'm not generally against removing or condensing abilities when it makes sense, but having to choose between abilties that seem almost equally important doesn't seem like a good idea. I assume we wont be able to change our loadout in mid fight.

To get awe and saber throw back, I would have to not choose abilities that give me more focus or let me do more dmg. In ops you usually as dps would choose whatever let's you do more dmg, loosing out on abilities that might give you more utility or that are just fun.

I understand as game developers you want your game to be accessible and attractive for new players and having 3 quickbars or so of abilities might be overwelming at first. But they don't get them all at once unless they level up with a token which I wouldn't recommend for a new player. For most story content it's enough to just use your main damaging abilities, and you probably don't even need any dcd. So a pure story player could just put their main abilities on one quickbar and just forget about the rest.

Don't really see a need to remove so many abilities.

For harder content like some hm and nim ops you might have to utilise most of them. That is also something that a lot of raiders enjoy.

The way both of the two dps guardian specs are now on the pts, they are neither fun to play nor do they seem to be very effective, so I hope you'll rethink some of the choices you've made there.

Edited July 13, 2021 by Stellalunacat

[Darkrebellord]

Discipline old fashion and outdated concept is this game heading back to its old style Patch 1 to 3.1 style because that what it sound like no wonder all the bugs are returning to the game.

 

Reverting this game back to its old style with pvp warzone in itself is complete disappointment reminds me of the bad old swtor gaming days: mad:

 

Its the main reason i am not playing as much due to the backward approach i am seeing

[ElDarksome]

With PTS now live, you can help test the Combat Style for the Jedi Guardian.

 

Please answer the following questions:

• Does this feel like a Jedi Guardian? Please explain why or why not.
  
• Is there anything that feels missing or out of place in the combat rotation?
  
• What are your initial thoughts with the effectiveness of the Jedi Guardian against enemies?
  
• How are you enjoying or not enjoying this class?
  
• If you have feedback on the different disciplines and ability paths, please note your feedback accordingly so we can track it.
  

Feel free to answer in as much detail as possible to help us understand your thought process and line of thinking. Please include the specific Discipline and ability path you chose.

 

Thank you!

 

I play as tank guardian in pve content so here are my answers to those questions. I've choosed defense A and then had a little sneak peek on both dps and defense B.

 

1. It felt like crippled guardian. Because abilities I find useful were gone (enure, cc breaker, etc.) and abilities I don't almost use remained (like force push). Maybe for players with half brain it is fun not to solve stuns, cleansing etc. but for me it was not funny at all. Boredom it is.

2. Saber throw, cc breaker, interrupt ability, enure... oh c'mon. You read it already. Saber throw is focus building ability, it's pretty cool to have it in rotation. And I'm not even talking about visual effect it has. Who doesn't want to throw their saber, heh? What kind of terrible person? I get why you want to take defense abilities from dps guardians, we all know their survivality is mad. But take them also from tanks? Why? What is the reason?

3. As tank? Less effective. Enure is good for completely different things than saber reflect or focused defense, it doesn't seem they have same effect that you can easily choose between them. It's like choosing between meat and vegetables, yeah they're both food but don't have same quality.

4. On PTS I don't enjoy it as same as I enjoy it now.

5. I honestly don't get why tank has these insane options as dps. It kinda feels it doesn't respect the roles.

 

I don't feel there is more to say. People already said it. My guardian on PTS has abilities that I rarely use and the hardcore ones are gone. What a terrible change. I feel more like dummy then player with more options. My brain hasn't size of a peanut to need this simplicity and I bet most players feel the same way.

 

Please try to explain us, why this solution is so good for us.