How about that inflation eh?

[BRKMSN]

But where it makes a difference is when you raise the cap on those ultra expensive items, other people (ie crafters), will raise their prices on less expensive items so they can afford to buy said LS for 3 billion credits.

 

What you are failing to comprehend is that increasing the cap will loosen the restrictions on inflation because the cap is currently holding the majority of prices at 1 billion max. Increasing that cap relaxes that restriction and more people will try selling items higher than 1 billion. Which in turn drives inflation faster across the GTN as other players raise prices on other items to be able to afford the new shinnies above 1 billion.

 

That’s how it affects new players because the items they could afford now with a little bit of play time will get more expensive and become out of reach of new players. You need to consider 2 things. 1. BioWare are nerfing conquest credits so these new players are already going to be at a disadvantage than they would be now. 2. BioWare obviously aren’t going to inject easy fast credits into lower lvls again because credit sellers would just farm them to sell.

 

So BioWare need to keep the cap on the GTN, exactly the same way you have governments who keep caps on food or rents so that the less we’ll off aren’t priced out of the market. Remember, BioWare is trying to grow player numbers, the last thing they want is for new players to feel like they can’t afford anything on the GTN and then leave.

 

I just wanted to address a couple of your concerns.

 

At any time, I can purchase (and afford) crafted items. But what if I see something I want that is made by a crafter but don't want to pay their asking price? I craft the item myself. It takes work. It takes time. But the game gives me the ability to craft these things myself. Not only that, it gives me the ability to obtain the materials without the use of the GTN.

 

Back when the game was getting updates every week and expansions every year, I could see why people wouldn't want to invest the kind of time today's crafting requires. By the time they would do all the work, the next expansion would be rolling out making lower level stuff obsolete. Now that our max level is staying put for a couple years at a time, frugal players can justify the time investment required to craft the stuff they want. Even if a person has no interest in crafting, there will often be a guild member that will happily craft things for you in exchange for the mats. Even if you're not in a guild, people will sometimes offer (in Gen Chat) to craft certain items in exchange for mats. The GTN is primarily for people that don't want to bother with that. The prices are there for people that want instant gratification. It's similar to when some big natural disaster happens to an area of the world and many people want to help. Not everybody can volunteer the time to physically "help." The people that want to help but can't volunteer time, usually send money to one of various groups that are helping. In essence, there are two different ways to "help." In the same fashion, there are two ways to obtain crafted items in this game (Craft them yourself, or pay someone else).

 

As far as the GTN cap goes, I would argue that it doesn't accomplish anything, let alone restrict inflation. Once armor sets started selling for 1B, savvy sellers stopped selling them as whole sets and started listing individual pieces. Others took to the trade channel and avoided the GTN tax altogether, which actually circumvents the game's largest credit sink. So not only did it fail to deter inflation in any way, it steered players away from the main credit sink and that actually causes inflation to rise since all those credits remain in the game.

 

Real world governments typically aren't trying to enforce price control on non-essential items (vanity items in this game). Bioware sets the prices on things in the game that players need and inflation does not affect those prices at all. RNG might affect them, but inflation does not.

[TrixxieTriss]

It's even less of a seeming coincidence when those exact same lootbox mechanics, and the game director responsible for them, are transfered to Bioware's uncoming hit "Anthem", despite the entire SWTOR community being up in arms about how bad the system was.

 

It might sound crazy, but I'm of the firm opinion that the reason SWTOR is still around is to gauge how predatory EA can get with monitization in MMOs. It's like they're trying to figure out how to make something pay to win without letting players directly buy power from the cash shop, in order to avoid the "mobile game" stigma.

 

They know their sports game audience, but it's taken a lot longer to pin down the "nerd market". Just look at the huge misstep with the mobile version of Dungeon Keeper, Anthem, Andromeda, Star Wars Battlefront, etc.

 

I know this is sort of off topic, but it’s an interesting topic on its own. Some of us actually brought this topic up and discussed it before Anthem was even launched. I’ve personally been saying for many years that the RNG in the game was being used to desensitise us from actual loot box mechanics in the shop. Then all the drama happened with Battlefront and people were still arguing that BioWare weren’t doing that here. Next thing we can buy individual items direct instead of in loot boxes. Which suggests that’s exactly what BioWare had been doing and didn’t want to get more widely accused of it in the media,

Then year after year they tried new forms of RNG (gambling mechanics) in the game. The latest obviously being the Amplifier system (which they got a lot of flack over) and are now removing without any explanation.

If anyone thinks BioWares new gearing system isn’t also be heavily RNG, they will be sorely mistaken. And so I’m also of the opinion that EA uses swtor as a test ground for different systems they want to try out for other games.

[AxelStorm]

I haven't been back to game long so this might be reaching... but what if BW listed some cartel market items on vendor at a very high credit price? Only way to combat inflation is to really remove excess credits from the game, period.

 

Again, not sure of total downstream impact to this suggestion... and I emphasize SOME CARTEL items... BW is not about to surrender their main revenue basis.

[TrixxieTriss]

I haven't been back to game long so this might be reaching... but what if BW listed some cartel market items on vendor at a very high credit price? Only way to combat inflation is to really remove excess credits from the game, period.

 

Again, not sure of total downstream impact to this suggestion... and I emphasize SOME CARTEL items... BW is not about to surrender their main revenue basis.

 

We’ve suggested this too for a few years. And the items would need to be BoL so they couldn’t be resold on the GTN. But BioWare have ignored this and a dozen other good ideas for credit sinks.

[Rolodome]

I know this is sort of off topic, but it’s an interesting topic on its own. Some of us actually brought this topic up and discussed it before Anthem was even launched. I’ve personally been saying for many years that the RNG in the game was being used to desensitise us from actual loot box mechanics in the shop. Then all the drama happened with Battlefront and people were still arguing that BioWare weren’t doing that here. Next thing we can buy individual items direct instead of in loot boxes. Which suggests that’s exactly what BioWare had been doing and didn’t want to get more widely accused of it in the media,

Then year after year they tried new forms of RNG (gambling mechanics) in the game. The latest obviously being the Amplifier system (which they got a lot of flack over) and are now removing without any explanation.

If anyone thinks BioWares new gearing system isn’t also be heavily RNG, they will be sorely mistaken. And so I’m also of the opinion that EA uses swtor as a test ground for different systems they want to try out for other games.

I remember confirming some years back, I think around the GC era, that they had somebody who had previously worked in online poker (idk if it's still going, I know it used to be a thing before gov cracked down on it as gambling). That alone speaks volumes to me. I mean, maybe it was just somebody who works on the store and never beyond it, but we know how pervasively the store affects the rest of the game, that can be directly observed. Whether it's a testing ground or not, I think it'd be hard for anyone to say that its priorities are in line with what you'd usually expect from a video game. Certainly there's an appearance of such on the surface in PR, but the development priorities so chronically don't line up with being a sustainable, polished product. And the classic bad engine/infrastructure excuse only applies to bugs and new features, it doesn't excuse the persistent focus on RNG/lootbox systems and the chronic wholesale abandonment of systems with months or years of development put into them to chase yet another new system that will go through the same thing.

 

So yeah, it's very fishy.

[OddballEasyEight]

I’m going to choose to ignore the rest of that last post so we are not tiit for tat posting.

 

But I will reply to this to get back on topic.

 

Of course I don’t think it would make any difference to a brand new player because they are as unlikely to have 1 billion credits, let alone 3 billion.

 

But where it makes a difference is when you raise the cap on those ultra expensive items, other people (ie crafters), will raise their prices on less expensive items so they can afford to buy said LS for 3 billion credits.

 

What you are failing to comprehend is that increasing the cap will loosen the restrictions on inflation because the cap is currently holding the majority of prices at 1 billion max. Increasing that cap relaxes that restriction and more people will try selling items higher than 1 billion. Which in turn drives inflation faster across the GTN as other players raise prices on other items to be able to afford the new shinnies above 1 billion.

 

That’s how it affects new players because the items they could afford now with a little bit of play time will get more expensive and become out of reach of new players. You need to consider 2 things. 1. BioWare are nerfing conquest credits so these new players are already going to be at a disadvantage than they would be now. 2. BioWare obviously aren’t going to inject easy fast credits into lower lvls again because credit sellers would just farm them to sell.

 

So BioWare need to keep the cap on the GTN, exactly the same way you have governments who keep caps on food or rents so that the less we’ll off aren’t priced out of the market. Remember, BioWare is trying to grow player numbers, the last thing they want is for new players to feel like they can’t afford anything on the GTN and then leave.

 

That will happen, for sure, but implemented with all the other solutions suggested here (which is something I've said over and over that they need to do to increase the cap) it won't last long.

But another side to this coin is that prices for materials (and often, low level materials readily available for new players) will also go up.

 

Like I said, I made my first billion just by selling materials.

 

This will let new players make a decent bit of cash while the system stabilizes.

 

And after a while, pretty much nothing except maybe the absolutely ultra rare stuff (like the crate-o-matic) will be sellable at above 1 billion.

 

Because one thing we've not discussed enough is the fact that this is a closed system in many ways.

Most of the ultra rich have made their money from trade of some sort.

That means the money didn't come from the game, it came from other players.

And while the ultra rich have filthy amounts of money, for sure, that amount will be chipped away by deflation mechanics.

And as long as BW implements those in a good way (again, everything depends on that, if they don't... I don't want the cap raised) then prices will go down despite increasing the cap.

[OddballEasyEight]

(From the other thread, I'm reposting what I wrote)

 

*****************************

 

As (I think) Devereaux and others have said, inflation is a symptom, not the disease. The issue remains the lack of (viable) items on which to spend creds. This is partially because of the (antiquated) notion of "digital rarity".

 

For example, Tulak Horde's LS (currently selling for over 1 billion on Star Forge) is, apparently, a rare drop from Cartel Packs / Crates / Hypercrates. But it doesn't have to be. Technically speaking, EA could put one in every player's inventory tonight. Or it could be a "Thank you" and show up in every new player's mailbox, like the Vehicles, Armor, and Flair you get when you create a toon.

 

Would the price crater? Absolutely. But why? Players still have billions of credits, so that didn't change. Players still make money via the usual activities, so why the price drop? Well, obviously because it's no longer "rare".

 

More importantly, because THLS is no longer "rare", players will not spend real-life money to take a chance on obtaining it via a hypercrate. (Digital gambling if you will, and oh by the way, the EU came down hard on EA (iinm) when they pulled that stunt with the FIFA World Cup game). This is why everything you can find in a hypercrate can ALSO be found on the CM.

 

But what cannot be found on the CM are old crates and items. Here is where the Devs not only missed the boat but didn't even get to the dock. Since EA owns the digital rights to those {WIDGETS}, they could, theoretically, put them on a vendor, and sell them ad infinitum (Again, "digital rarity only in reverse). Put the Czerka CZ-4 Blaster pistol on a vendor, make the price one million credits (and BoL), and the people who want to buy the thing can and will.

 

There. Now the CM is unaffected (the proverbial elephant in the room), credits are drained from the economy, new players have something to work towards, and older players can fill in the gaps on their "Space Barbie / Ken"

 

Sorry I missed you there.

 

This is an excellent idea.

 

Like others have said, this would have to be at a much higher price rate, though.

 

I mean, we practically have it already in the Cartel Bazaar.

[TrixxieTriss]

That will happen, for sure, but implemented with all the other solutions suggested here (which is something I've said over and over that they need to do to increase the cap) it won't last long.

But another side to this coin is that prices for materials (and often, low level materials readily available for new players) will also go up.

 

Like I said, I made my first billion just by selling materials.

 

This will let new players make a decent bit of cash while the system stabilizes.

 

And after a while, pretty much nothing except maybe the absolutely ultra rare stuff (like the crate-o-matic) will be sellable at above 1 billion.

 

Because one thing we've not discussed enough is the fact that this is a closed system in many ways.

Most of the ultra rich have made their money from trade of some sort.

That means the money didn't come from the game, it came from other players.

And while the ultra rich have filthy amounts of money, for sure, that amount will be chipped away by deflation mechanics.

And as long as BW implements those in a good way (again, everything depends on that, if they don't... I don't want the cap raised) then prices will go down despite increasing the cap.

 

BioWare could implement all the measures you and I have discussed and the ultra rich wouldn’t even feel a speed bump from it.

Honestly, I personally wouldn’t be affected by it at all because of the amount of credits I’ve got to cushion the impact.

I will still have more credits than I could ever reasonably use in this game before they shutter it.

The ultra rich in this game are like billionaires in real life. They will never really be affected by any credit sinks or taxes being introduced to the game. It’s why I’ve started giving away lots of my credits.

Edited January 22, 2022 by TrixxieTriss

[TrixxieTriss]

Sorry I missed you there.

 

This is an excellent idea.

 

Like others have said, this would have to be at a much higher price rate, though.

 

I mean, we practically have it already in the Cartel Bazaar.

 

It wouldn’t take much to tweak the Cartel Bazaar vendors. They could do it a couple of ways.

1. Allow people to buy the CM certificates for a lot of credits.

2. Allow people to buy reputation tokens for a lot of credits.

3. Increase the credit cost for the vendor items to be able to buy them without rep or CM certificates.

[Severith]

I know this is sort of off topic, but it’s an interesting topic on its own. Some of us actually brought this topic up and discussed it before Anthem was even launched. I’ve personally been saying for many years that the RNG in the game was being used to desensitise us from actual loot box mechanics in the shop. Then all the drama happened with Battlefront and people were still arguing that BioWare weren’t doing that here. Next thing we can buy individual items direct instead of in loot boxes. Which suggests that’s exactly what BioWare had been doing and didn’t want to get more widely accused of it in the media,

Then year after year they tried new forms of RNG (gambling mechanics) in the game. The latest obviously being the Amplifier system (which they got a lot of flack over) and are now removing without any explanation.

If anyone thinks BioWares new gearing system isn’t also be heavily RNG, they will be sorely mistaken. And so I’m also of the opinion that EA uses swtor as a test ground for different systems they want to try out for other games.

 

I'll go a step further in my accusations against Bioware.

 

I think Bioware wants massive inflation in SWTOR, and is tracking player behavior in a "post ruined economy" in order to gather hard data on cash shop purchases, and how those increase when in game currency becomes less and less valuable.

 

Why? Because with that data, for other "games as service", they'll know the correct time to break the economy to maximize profit. Gambling mechanics just become the way to give players (false) hope that they can still keep financially relevant "post credit" economy.

[MystyqeofXev]

I'll go a step further in my accusations against Bioware.

 

I think Bioware wants massive inflation in SWTOR, and is tracking player behavior in a "post ruined economy" in order to gather hard data on cash shop purchases, and how those increase when in game currency becomes less and less valuable.

 

Why? Because with that data, for other "games as service", they'll know the correct time to break the economy to maximize profit. Gambling mechanics just become the way to give players (false) hope that they can still keep financially relevant "post credit" economy.

 

Never attribute to malice what can be explained by incompetence or lethargy.

[Bellendaine]

Never attribute to malice what can be explained by incompetence or lethargy.

 

LOL...well, I'm a founder and come and go often from the game, and am fortunate enough to have the means to keep my subscription active. I'll leave for six months to a year or so, and then I decide I'd like to play again, but come back and the economy is just...absurd. I don't know who the market is for the game, but it's certainly not players like me. Breaks my heart, 'cause I do love coming back to play but am always turned off.

[BRKMSN]

LOL...well, I'm a founder and come and go often from the game, and am fortunate enough to have the means to keep my subscription active. I'll leave for six months to a year or so, and then I decide I'd like to play again, but come back and the economy is just...absurd. I don't know who the market is for the game, but it's certainly not players like me. Breaks my heart, 'cause I do love coming back to play but am always turned off.

 

A player does him or herself a disservice if they sell all their "stuff" before their hiatus. In a game economy with constant inflation, it's not credits that have value, it's things. So the things you keep in your inventory (to sell) will also be worth more credits when you return, which would easily help you get caught back up. Also, things you can craft will be worth more when you return. The biggest thing to me is that it seems the casual player doesn't pay attention to market value or make the necessary attempt to adapt with it.

 

People aren't going to stop playing when you stop playing so that you don't fall behind. So seeing that life has continued on without you shouldn't "break your heart" or "turn you off." It should be expected.

[illgot]

A player does him or herself a disservice if they sell all their "stuff" before their hiatus. In a game economy with constant inflation, it's not credits that have value, it's things. So the things you keep in your inventory (to sell) will also be worth more credits when you return, which would easily help you get caught back up. Also, things you can craft will be worth more when you return. The biggest thing to me is that it seems the casual player doesn't pay attention to market value or make the necessary attempt to adapt with it.

 

People aren't going to stop playing when you stop playing so that you don't fall behind. So seeing that life has continued on without you shouldn't "break your heart" or "turn you off." It should be expected.

 

All those people who sold everything years ago so they had 300 million credits saved up and came back recently had a very rude awakening.

 

Even players who quit 7 months ago suffered drastically from inflation.

 

You are right, smart players do not keep a lot of credits on them. They invest in items they know will hold their value and easily sell. Credits lose their value as inflation increases and in MMOs inflation is constantly on the rise.

Edited January 23, 2022 by illgot

[Rolodome]

A player does him or herself a disservice if they sell all their "stuff" before their hiatus. In a game economy with constant inflation, it's not credits that have value, it's things. So the things you keep in your inventory (to sell) will also be worth more credits when you return, which would easily help you get caught back up. Also, things you can craft will be worth more when you return. The biggest thing to me is that it seems the casual player doesn't pay attention to market value or make the necessary attempt to adapt with it.

 

People aren't going to stop playing when you stop playing so that you don't fall behind. So seeing that life has continued on without you shouldn't "break your heart" or "turn you off." It should be expected.

I guess, but you can't fully predict what items will have value. You can invest in stuff like the coveted dyes and hypercrates or whatever, if you have enough to translate your credits and other items into that, but otherwise, there's not a lot that will be much of a certainty. Also, it's kind of silly to expect people to treat saving in a video game like RL capital, to me that just says volumes about how ridiculous this game's economy is. Like it's bad enough in RL, we don't need it in a game too. I mean, you're talking about "the casual player" as if they are some simple person who doesn't understand the nuances of investing, when this is a video game people play in their free time to relax or whatever.

[BRKMSN]

I guess, but you can't fully predict what items will have value. You can invest in stuff like the coveted dyes and hypercrates or whatever, if you have enough to translate your credits and other items into that, but otherwise, there's not a lot that will be much of a certainty. Also, it's kind of silly to expect people to treat saving in a video game like RL capital, to me that just says volumes about how ridiculous this game's economy is. Like it's bad enough in RL, we don't need it in a game too. I mean, you're talking about "the casual player" as if they are some simple person who doesn't understand the nuances of investing, when this is a video game people play in their free time to relax or whatever.

I'd like to remind you that the imaginary economy's (video game) inflation only affects vanity items unlike real life inflation. All the things that are necessary in this game are priced controlled by game design. It's just as silly to think that we would invest real life money on CCs to buy vanity items to "look cool." All this inflation uproar is caused because the only way to avoid using CCs is to purchase the vanity item from another player using credits.

[Rolodome]

I'd like to remind you that the imaginary economy's (video game) inflation only affects vanity items unlike real life inflation. All the things that are necessary in this game are priced controlled by game design. It's just as silly to think that we would invest real life money on CCs to buy vanity items to "look cool." All this inflation uproar is caused because the only way to avoid using CCs is to purchase the vanity item from another player using credits.

Well right, they are controlled by game design. It's bad enough such systems are forced on us in RL, we don't need it in games too. I'm not saying players are creating the problem if that's what you think, I know BW is the one who made it that way and purposefully maintains it that way so they can make more money off the game. It is, however, nonetheless absurd to expect players to partake in such a system in a game to get the things they want. It's not your fault, you're just a messenger saying how to game it, it's BW's fault, but it's still absurd. BW could unlock every coveted item tomorrow, it's not like there are any major manufacturing and distribution costs, like physical products. And instead we deal with these games of virtual artificial scarcity because they want all the money and they want to nickel and dime on every single virtual item for every single person they can, probably items that were made by people who get a pittance of a fraction of what they make off of selling it (e.g. they get whatever they were paid in making it, I don't think royalties even begin to enter the picture, and if I remember right, that's part of what the voice actor's strike was about some years back, was to do with video game VO work and royalties).

 

But I digress...

[BRKMSN]

Well right, they are controlled by game design. It's bad enough such systems are forced on us in RL, we don't need it in games too. I'm not saying players are creating the problem if that's what you think, I know BW is the one who made it that way and purposefully maintains it that way so they can make more money off the game. It is, however, nonetheless absurd to expect players to partake in such a system in a game to get the things they want. It's not your fault, you're just a messenger saying how to game it, it's BW's fault, but it's still absurd. BW could unlock every coveted item tomorrow, it's not like there are any major manufacturing and distribution costs, like physical products. And instead we deal with these games of virtual artificial scarcity because they want all the money and they want to nickel and dime on every single virtual item for every single person they can, probably items that were made by people who get a pittance of a fraction of what they make off of selling it (e.g. they get whatever they were paid in making it, I don't think royalties even begin to enter the picture, and if I remember right, that's part of what the voice actor's strike was about some years back, was to do with video game VO work and royalties).

 

But I digress...

 

[Bellendaine]

People aren't going to stop playing when you stop playing so that you don't fall behind. So seeing that life has continued on without you shouldn't "break your heart" or "turn you off." It should be expected.

 

Really?! Gosh, I thought the world stopped when I wasn't around. That's the only child in me, I guess...

 

Yes, I realize this, but my point is I'm not gone very long...let's say six months is the longest, and an item that I used to see for (absurdly), say, 18m credits is (six months later) 2b credits. Not kidding. That's...silly. But, as you say, it's not everyone else's problem. It is sad for anyone who loves the game long-term, though, but actually has a life outside of it. So, yah, it "breaks my heart" and "turns me off", 'cause you know, I'm allowed independent feelings and thoughts! Cool, huh?

Edited January 24, 2022 by Bellendaine

[BRKMSN]

It is sad for anyone who loves the game long-term, though, but actually has a life outside of it. So, yah, it "breaks my heart" and "turns me off", 'cause you know, I'm allowed independent feelings and thoughts! Cool, huh?

 

You're clearly being a bit melodramatic. Are you suggesting people that disagree "have no life?"

[Gibonski]

Another good idea would be, when Bioware would introduce new currency. Say a "crystal coin" would be it's name. You can swap one billion credits for the coin and then buy goods at specialty vendor for it. They would be some new decorations, cosmetics etc. Rich people would definitely sink their money into it. They have money in order to show off stuff they can buy. It won't affect all, as some of them are just straight up selling credits or saving it up like hamster. But it would eliminate some of the credits from the game.

[RikuvonDrake]

just reduce the amount of credits that players can generate daily through mission rewards, selling drops or loot to vendors, slightly increase the cost of repairs, vendor prices on commonly bought items as well increase the GTN tax while also increasing the gtn cap from 1b to 4,2b (credit cap for characters). introduce options to buy ingame decorations for credits instead of prefabs (not including any cartel market decorations)

 

overtime it will help with inflation, there is no quick fix and there shouldn't be one either considering this is a situation that has built up over a long time