How about that inflation eh?

[TrixxieTriss]

I'm not going to get into how now improbable the it was just a social experiment excuse is when you stated you have and would post dyes again at the max credit limit if the GTN limit was raised.

 

And how gold sellers who can barely create a proper advertisement in English asked for their credits back because they accidentally bought my 1 billion credit dye. Lets ignore these two fantastical deflections.

 

Lets jump down to the fact you do not want a higher GTN limit because "Raising the credit limit on the GTN only helps the credit sellers and the super rich in the game get richer. It doesn’t need to be increased if the aim is to reduce inflation or remove credits."

 

You do not want to increase the GTN limit because you believe credit sellers launder their credits on the GTN? This does not happen and even if it did the 8% tax is at least doing it's job of being a credit sink. And how would would increasing the GTN limit help credit sellers if they did use the GTN to "launder" credits? The only benefit that credit sellers would gain is less transactions per sale, they would still get taxed 8%. Raising the limit doesn't help credit credit sellers even if they did "launder" their credits through the GTN. What are they gaining? Buying less dyes?

 

And you do not want players to have an easier time selling items worth more than 1 billion credits because... you don't want the "super rich in the game to get richer". This makes no sense either. Players have been bypassing the 1 billion credit limit for years doing direct trades. You aren't stopping multi-billion credit trades by limiting the GTN to 1 billion credits. Instead, players are bypassing the best credit sink in the game because they have no other choice.

 

Your stance against increasing the GTN limit is not about helping the economy or reducing inflation, it's about being punitive to people you consider "super rich".

 

If you understood what inflation was, the difference between inflation and high prices, what it takes to fix inflation, how long it would take Bioware to implement proper credit sinks and how long it would take for those credit sinks to take effect, you would understand that keeping the GTN at 1 billion credits is causing inflation to increase at a rate faster than it would if the GTN could tax multi-billion credit sales.

 

Raise the GTN limit and let people sell their multi-billion credit items on the GTN and tax them 8%. Remove a few hundred million credits per transaction as a credit sink instead of forcing everyone to trade directly bypassing the best credit sink we have in the game. Do this while Bioware creates and implements effective credit sinks which will naturally increase the value of credits and lower the cost of traded goods.

 

1. I have proof credit sellers have used the GTN as a way to transfer credits to their buyers. This proof was sent to BioWare and that account is no longer active. Wether you believe me or not is immaterial because BioWare knows this is happening.

 

2. LOL, I am one of those super rich players you think Im some how jealous of and want to take punitive action against. I’ve no problem with people earning or making a truck load of credits. Ive probably got more credits than you or 99.99% of people in this game. I did that without ever needing the GTN limit increased or trading outside the GTN.

 

3. People haven’t been trading Billions of credits over the one Billion limit “for years” because there was never a need before a few months ago. Up until half way through last year, we didn’t have the hyperinflation and prices we do now. So that right there is a lie and shows you’re not being honest in this discussion.

 

4. Needing the GTN limit increased above 1 billion only helps the sellers. You can try and disguise your request as being altruistic in reducing credits in the game faster. But anyone who thinks honestly about it will realise it’s false altruism and is just to make it easier for you to sell things higher. Which will drive inflation faster and higher than is reasonable.

 

5. My posting history in other threads about GTN practices and pricing wars over the last 3 years backs up my statement about running experiments to do with GTN pricing. If you don’t believe me, go and read them. Anyone who knows me on the forums or in the game knows I run these. Ask around if you want more proof.

 

6. If BioWare limits player to player trades by reducing the amount that can be traded and how often, then no one trying to circumvent the GTN will bother trying. Or if they do, it will be a major pain in the butt, which will discourage the majority from doing it. Therefore, players will still have to use the GTN and pay the tax. BioWare don’t need to increase the GTN sale cap.

 

7. One only needs to look at your posting history to know you’ve been gone from the game since 2014 and have only come back this year. The majority of your posts are about letting players sell for much higher than the current GTN cap and you’ve alluded to paying real money to buy CM goods to sell on the GTN. From my perspective, it seems you want BioWare to make it easier for you to become super rich in the game as fast as possible and you’re willing to “pay to win” to get there.

Edited January 20, 2022 by TrixxieTriss

[MystyqeofXev]

Umm credit sellers DO use the GTN to "transfer".

 

Step 1 - I contact a credit seller.

 

Step 2 - I pay them "X" RL dollars.

 

Step 3 - They ask for my in-game character name and tell me to sell {WORTHLESS ITEM} for Y credits.

 

Step 4 - Said credit seller buys my {WORTHLESS ITEM}

 

Activision put a serious kibosh on the gold sellers by instituting the "WoW token". Essentially you send Activision $20, you get a token for 1 month sub. Now, you can sell said token for gold, or use it yourself.

 

Here's where it gets interesting. If you made enough gold in-game, you never had to pay for your sub. Oh sure, ATVI still got their money in the form of the gold token (Somebody else's $20 (Not my $15), but, with the amount of gold I made in WoD (2014), I never paid for my sub up until I left in 2018-2019.

[TrixxieTriss]

I think everyone here just skipped the thing that drives the prices so high. Not one mentioned rpm/ oem prices needed to do the augments. If they were to drop from flashpoint bosses and weekly, instead of ranked pvp, it would not be an issue. People have billions of credits, running staged pvp with 8 people. One side wins, and then looses on a rotation. Everyday these groups run for 3 hours straight for 7 days a week, gaining ludacris amounts of money. Then these people have so much money, so they don't give a flying flamingo if they buy something for 500 mil, because they can make it back in 1 hour. And with little effort.

 

But the devs ignored this issue for almost 2 years and here we are. It's not because people are great at playing the market. It's because certain group of people allowed market prices to go higher and higher over this timeframe.

 

That didn’t cause or create the inflation issue. It’s a symptom of the inflation issues. They don’t create credits. And you can’t have the sort of hyperinflation if the credits aren’t already in the game.

 

All the OEM/RPMs have done is move some of that wealth around the game more. If anything, they have actually helped reduce some inflationary pressure since BioWare allowed players to collect them with 10,000 tech frags.

 

More people have been able to make a lot of credits doing this. But those augment mats are removing 8% of the credits every time one is sold on the GTN.

 

These aren’t the cause of the inflation.

[xordevoreaux]

Given that after 120+ posts and 10K+ views on this thread that no dev or game producer has sailed into this conversation announcing a big, detailed, meaningful, convincing hurrah about cutting inflation, this conversation will go on forever.

 

Anything Bioware does to truly—truly—kill inflation would thoroughly piss off one contingent of the player base or another, from GTN whales, people wanting cartel market items off the GTN because they refuse to spend real money on the cartel market, to a whole swath of players tossing credits around for manner of reasons.

[TrixxieTriss]

Given that after 120+ posts and 10K+ views on this thread that no dev or game producer has sailed into this conversation announcing a big, detailed, meaningful, convincing hurrah about cutting inflation, this conversation will go on forever.

 

Anything Bioware does to truly—truly—kill inflation would thoroughly piss off one contingent of the player base or another, from GTN whales, people wanting cartel market items off the GTN because they refuse to spend real money on the cartel market, to a whole swath of players tossing credits around for manner of reasons.

 

BioWare can slow and even severely limit the inflationary issues if they do choose without pissing off too many people. The ones that they will really piss off are the credit sellers who thrive on hyperinflation.

 

What it comes down to, is not if BioWare are willing. It’s wether what they decide to do is enough or the right way to curd the inflationary pressures. So far they have said they are aware of the problem and their part solution is to reduce conquest credits.

 

But we know that won’t be near enough to even slow inflation at this stage because it’s in run away mode. All they will do is make it harder for new or returning players to accumulate credits. It will not even be a speed bump for anyone whose already a billionaire in the game, we won’t even be affected.

 

We will have to wait till 7.0 releases to see what other measures they have hinted at implementing. If they don’t implement any other measures, we know they arent serious about wanting to do anything at all.

Edited January 20, 2022 by TrixxieTriss

[Ulrah]

4. Needing the GTN limit increased above 1 billion only helps the sellers. You can try and disguise your request as being altruistic in reducing credits in the game faster. But anyone who thinks honestly about it will realise it’s false altruism and is just to make it easier for you to sell things higher. Which will drive inflation faster and higher than is reasonable.

Increasing the cap would make selling items going for over 1b more convenient, but would also make price discovery easier (for potential buyers) and increase competition (now seller has to compete with any sell orders from last 3 days or so, instead of only active spammers in trade chat).

[BRKMSN]

BioWare can slow and even severely limit the inflationary issues if they do choose without pissing off too many people. The ones that they will really piss off are the credit sellers who thrive on hyperinflation.

 

I'm not even sure the second part is true. I've learned to "tune out" the gold spam in chat, so I don't know what the current "rate" is, but it's always been relevant to the time. In the beginning it was like $10-12 for 1M or something like that. Credit sellers thrive on lazy players. Inflation only changes how many credits they sell you per dollar.

 

On the first point, I do agree. That's the biggest reason why I think they should really look into character perks. Those will provide perks to players willing to pay for them. Having them available even if you don't want to pay for them is still better than not having them as an option. I think the prices should be steep and some people might not like that, but these aren't necessities. So only willing people will buy them and players that know how to make credits will more than likely be "willing."

[TrixxieTriss]

Increasing the cap would make selling items going for over 1b more convenient, but would also make price discovery easier (for potential buyers) and increase competition (now seller has to compete with any sell orders from last 3 days or so, instead of only active spammers in trade chat).

 

Explain how it makes price discovery easier?

 

Because if they put in restrictions on player to player trades (ie lower price cap and number of trades), the highest prices anyone can sell for is 1 billion credits on the GTN. See, Ive solved your price discovery problem right there

 

Competition would actually be more fierce because everyone will be trying to get the attention of buyers by undercutting each other at a billion credits. So that problem’s solved too.

 

You don’t need to increase the credit limit. You just need to close the player to player trade loop hole.

Edited January 21, 2022 by TrixxieTriss

[Ulrah]

Explain how it makes price discovery easier?

Price discovery is obviously easier for items that are on the GTN than it is for those that are worth more than the GTN cap.

Because if they put in restrictions on player to player trades (ie lower price cap and number of trades), the highest prices anyone can sell for is 1 billion credits on the GTN. See, Ive solved your price discovery problem right there

 

Competition would actually be more fierce because everyone will be trying to get the attention of buyers by undercutting each other at a billion credits. So that problem’s solved too.

 

You don’t need to increase the credit limit. You just need to close the player to player trade loop hole.

You really think it's just that simple to block "trades" that value an item above 1b?

 

Increase credits caps (GTN, banks, etc.), or divide all credits held anywhere by 1,000. Either is much easier to do than what you have proposed, and actually effective in addressing the issues caused by the current GTN cap relative to current item values. Also, you don't get the stink of treating trading (in an MMO) like a "loophole"...

Edited January 21, 2022 by Ulrah

[OddballEasyEight]

My point is I shouldn’t have been able to sell those crafted dyes for 1 billion in the first place. And if BioWare raised it to 10 billion without fixing the GTN systems and implementing restrictions outside of it, I’d still sell crafted dyes from 10 billion because some people are stupid.

 

Honestly, I think the part of the reason they even sell is because credit sellers are using the GTN to launder their sales. They say to prospective credit buyers to list “x” items at 1 billion and they’ll buy them. That way BioWare can’t easily track the people selling credits and the credit buyer has zero risks of being banned. So increasing the GTN limit to 10 billion would just make credit selling easier and put more upward pressure on inflation.

 

So with BioWare removing those amplifiers, many crafted items won’t crit and will take way too long to craft. Which will (in theory, ie less crits, higher costs) make crafters increase their prices on the GTN. Which will probably increase inflation more from less supply and higher sell prices.

 

These two comments have convinced me that you truly do not understand how inflation works and is still thinking that higher prices are in fact inflation, and not the symptom of inflation.

 

I suggest you read up on how inflation works. Preferably from some economics textbook, but failing that you can get a decent explanation here: https://www.investopedia.com/terms/i/inflation.asp

 

TL;DR Version is that high prices are not inflation, but merely an indication of inflation happening. Inflation is the decrease in value of the currency itself. 1 credit is worth less today than when the game started because there are more credits in the game today than there were back then. Stopping people from selling at a higher price will do absolutely zero to change that. And yet you vehemently push to do just that.

Sure, you seem to have a decent grasp of countermeasures for actual inflation (ie. removing credits permanently from the system), but for some reason you get very hung up on limiting the amount of credits people can sell things for.

It's akin to saying that if you lock up all beggars and homeless, we'll get rid of poverty.

That's not how it works.

 

Increasing the sale limit on the GTN will simply expediate the credit sinks efficiency and make more credits disappear from the system faster.

Very few items warrant a price above 1 billion credits. That's not going to change soon (assuming they do implement deflation mechanics like credit sinks, but then without that this entire discussion is pointless anyway, so let's assume).

The only thing that will happen is that those few items worth more than 1 billion will be sold on the GTN instead of traded privately (and insecurely), and the taxation credit sink will actually work on those items too.

 

 

4. Needing the GTN limit increased above 1 billion only helps the sellers. You can try and disguise your request as being altruistic in reducing credits in the game faster. But anyone who thinks honestly about it will realise it’s false altruism and is just to make it easier for you to sell things higher. Which will drive inflation faster and higher than is reasonable.

 

Again, a clear indication that you don't understand how inflation works and the mechanics of deflation.

 

Firstly, I don't own a single thing worth over a billion, so I don't care what I can sell things for.

Secondly, it won't drive inflation because things worth 300 million won't suddenly be worth 2 billion.

Just because you *can* sell something for more than 1 billion doesn't mean you will be able to sell it for that.

The only thing an increase in sales cap on the GTN will do is make the taxation system work faster (and work at all on the items currently selling for more than 1 billion).

 

It. will. not. increase. inflation.

 

Because high prices are not the cause of inflation, merely the indication that inflation is happening.

[SeCKSEgai]

If cap was raised, it wouldn't be as detrimental as a lot of people believe.

 

However, the biggest problem is having reliable and worthwhile credit sinks. I remember when I was saving 4 million just to get satele boots only for them to go up to 12. About a year ago when I came back, mk11 aug kits were around 500k+ - those are now almost 2mil a pop on my server. Purple augs that were around 5mil can go over 15 now.

 

People have to keep in mind prices were fairly stable for a long while and there are multiple factors that have led to the sudden rise in pricing. For example one might conclude that demand is causing the spike - but I would suggest that a lack of supply from a reduced player base and lack of market participation means a lot less competition to drive prices down.

 

To be fair, there are some ultra wealthy most likely manipulating parts of the market, but again, a lack of competition helps enable them to do so.

[Rolodome]

People have to keep in mind prices were fairly stable for a long while and there are multiple factors that have led to the sudden rise in pricing. For example one might conclude that demand is causing the spike - but I would suggest that a lack of supply from a reduced player base and lack of market participation means a lot less competition to drive prices down.

 

To be fair, there are some ultra wealthy most likely manipulating parts of the market, but again, a lack of competition helps enable them to do so.

I agree. Also, though this doesn't account for non-CM items, there used to be that cycle with new lootboxes where the market would be temporarily flooded with lots of copies of newer items as the whales tried to get "that one plat they wanted." It was horrible for those people and in that way I don't miss it at all (don't want to give the impression I thought it was a good thing, overall). But, terribleness of it for the whales and unethical design of it aside, it did mean that if you were watching closely and farming credits, there were periods where you could get a lot of newer items for decent prices because of the people selling from packs leap frogging each other to get it sold.

 

Now that the lootboxes are conjoined into one pack type, now that many of the most sought after items are sold directly, there is just less reason for excess supply to end up on the GTN in general. The wealthier players who really want something off the GTN have all the buying power now with supply on the rarer items so low and they end up normalizing the price of what people are willing to pay, which is increasingly absurd. I can't imagine how many items there are that get continually listed far above what most people can pay or want to pay, but are continually listed anyway by some career GTN player who is patiently waiting for that one impatient wealthy player to show up and pay for it. And some of them may be fighting each other on it, continuing to list it overly high because they are afraid if they list it too low, some other flipper will buy it up and make more money off it them.

[SeCKSEgai]

removed as it posted twice Edited January 21, 2022 by SeCKSEgai
cleared once I saw that it posted twice

[TrixxieTriss]

These two comments have convinced me that you truly do not understand how inflation works and is still thinking that higher prices are in fact inflation, and not the symptom of inflation.

 

I suggest you read up on how inflation works. Preferably from some economics textbook, but failing that you can get a decent explanation here: https://www.investopedia.com/terms/i/inflation.asp

 

TL;DR Version is that high prices are not inflation, but merely an indication of inflation happening. Inflation is the decrease in value of the currency itself. 1 credit is worth less today than when the game started because there are more credits in the game today than there were back then. Stopping people from selling at a higher price will do absolutely zero to change that. And yet you vehemently push to do just that.

Sure, you seem to have a decent grasp of countermeasures for actual inflation (ie. removing credits permanently from the system), but for some reason you get very hung up on limiting the amount of credits people can sell things for.

It's akin to saying that if you lock up all beggars and homeless, we'll get rid of poverty.

That's not how it works.

 

Increasing the sale limit on the GTN will simply expediate the credit sinks efficiency and make more credits disappear from the system faster.

Very few items warrant a price above 1 billion credits. That's not going to change soon (assuming they do implement deflation mechanics like credit sinks, but then without that this entire discussion is pointless anyway, so let's assume).

The only thing that will happen is that those few items worth more than 1 billion will be sold on the GTN instead of traded privately (and insecurely), and the taxation credit sink will actually work on those items too.

 

 

 

Again, a clear indication that you don't understand how inflation works and the mechanics of deflation.

 

Firstly, I don't own a single thing worth over a billion, so I don't care what I can sell things for.

Secondly, it won't drive inflation because things worth 300 million won't suddenly be worth 2 billion.

Just because you *can* sell something for more than 1 billion doesn't mean you will be able to sell it for that.

The only thing an increase in sales cap on the GTN will do is make the taxation system work faster (and work at all on the items currently selling for more than 1 billion).

 

It. will. not. increase. inflation.

 

Because high prices are not the cause of inflation, merely the indication that inflation is happening.

 

Sure what ever you say. I’m sure my Bachelor of Economics degree disagrees with your assumption I know nothing about inflation.

 

And to be clear, this is a game, not real world economics, so many of the same principles don’t apply anyway. And you can artificially control the economy anyway they need to lower prices.

 

I also never said higher prices were inflation. That’s your interpretation of what I said. So please stop trying to discredit what I said by misrepresenting me. It’s a cheap shot at trying to get your point across.

 

The idea is to slow inflation and at the same time lower prices that are already over inflated. And you don’t need to apply normal economic theory to do it.

 

Inflation will always happen. But if there is a hard sales cap, then it means prices will never go above a certain price. Different countries already do stuff like this with certain sectors or products like food, medicine and rents. This keeps the costs of living down and allows other parts of the economy to stay under control.

 

That is basically what the GTN limit does in the game. So increasing the GTN cap allows inflation to continue above the artificial cap. Which increases the “costs of living” for new players in the game if they want anything from the GTN.

 

If you still can’t see how increasing the GTN cap is bad for the game after it’s been explained by myself and other multiple people, there is nothing I can say to convince you. So let’s just agree that we will never agree on this and stop attacking each other.

[TrixxieTriss]

 

People have to keep in mind prices were fairly stable for a long while and there are multiple factors that have led to the sudden rise in pricing. For example one might conclude that demand is causing the spike - but I would suggest that a lack of supply from a reduced player base and lack of market participation means a lot less competition to drive prices down.

 

To be fair, there are some ultra wealthy most likely manipulating parts of the market, but again, a lack of competition helps enable them to do so.

 

This is exactly my take on it too. We always had inflation, but it was reasonable and not out of control. But as soon as BioWare got rid of the free CC’s supply from referrals, the inflation started to accelerate from lack of supply and market manipulation by wealthier players.

 

And I’m as much to blame as anyone else on the GTN because I used to manipulate the market myself to combat the people having prices wars and driving prices down with their own market manipulation.

 

Increasing the GTN cap allows the more wealthy to continue manipulating the market to get richer. Honestly, there are players who’ve made GTN manipulation as part of their regular game play. I know I did for few years because they got bored when BioWare killed off other parts of the game I used to enjoy. And the wealthier you are, the easier it is to manipulate the market.

Edited January 21, 2022 by TrixxieTriss

[illgot]

Sure what ever you say. I’m sure my Bachelor of Economics degree disagrees with your assumption I know nothing about inflation.

 

And to be clear, this is a game, not real world economics, so many of the same principles don’t apply anyway. And you can artificially control the economy anyway they need to lower prices.

 

I also never said higher prices were inflation. That’s your interpretation of what I said. So please stop trying to discredit what I said by misrepresenting me. It’s a cheap shot at trying to get your point across.

 

The idea is to slow inflation and at the same time lower prices that are already over inflated. And you don’t need to apply normal economic theory to do it.

 

Inflation will always happen. But if there is a hard sales cap, then it means prices will never go above a certain price. Different countries already do stuff like this with certain sectors or products like food, medicine and rents. This keeps the costs of living down and allows other parts of the economy to stay under control.

 

That is basically what the GTN limit does in the game. So increasing the GTN cap allows inflation to continue above the artificial cap. Which increases the “costs of living” for new players in the game if they want anything from the GTN.

 

If you still can’t see how increasing the GTN cap is bad for the game after it’s been explained by myself and other multiple people, there is nothing I can say to convince you. So let’s just agree that we will never agree on this and stop attacking each other.

 

I have to just congratulate you on your Bachelors of Economics.

[MystyqeofXev]

(From the other thread, I'm reposting what I wrote)

 

*****************************

 

As (I think) Devereaux and others have said, inflation is a symptom, not the disease. The issue remains the lack of (viable) items on which to spend creds. This is partially because of the (antiquated) notion of "digital rarity".

 

For example, Tulak Horde's LS (currently selling for over 1 billion on Star Forge) is, apparently, a rare drop from Cartel Packs / Crates / Hypercrates. But it doesn't have to be. Technically speaking, EA could put one in every player's inventory tonight. Or it could be a "Thank you" and show up in every new player's mailbox, like the Vehicles, Armor, and Flair you get when you create a toon.

 

Would the price crater? Absolutely. But why? Players still have billions of credits, so that didn't change. Players still make money via the usual activities, so why the price drop? Well, obviously because it's no longer "rare".

 

More importantly, because THLS is no longer "rare", players will not spend real-life money to take a chance on obtaining it via a hypercrate. (Digital gambling if you will, and oh by the way, the EU came down hard on EA (iinm) when they pulled that stunt with the FIFA World Cup game). This is why everything you can find in a hypercrate can ALSO be found on the CM.

 

But what cannot be found on the CM are old crates and items. Here is where the Devs not only missed the boat but didn't even get to the dock. Since EA owns the digital rights to those {WIDGETS}, they could, theoretically, put them on a vendor, and sell them ad infinitum (Again, "digital rarity only in reverse). Put the Czerka CZ-4 Blaster pistol on a vendor, make the price one million credits (and BoL), and the people who want to buy the thing can and will.

 

There. Now the CM is unaffected (the proverbial elephant in the room), credits are drained from the economy, new players have something to work towards, and older players can fill in the gaps on their "Space Barbie / Ken"

[TrixxieTriss]

(From the other thread, I'm reposting what I wrote)

 

*****************************

 

As (I think) Devereaux and others have said, inflation is a symptom, not the disease. The issue remains the lack of (viable) items on which to spend creds. This is partially because of the (antiquated) notion of "digital rarity".

 

For example, Tulak Horde's LS (currently selling for over 1 billion on Star Forge) is, apparently, a rare drop from Cartel Packs / Crates / Hypercrates. But it doesn't have to be. Technically speaking, EA could put one in every player's inventory tonight. Or it could be a "Thank you" and show up in every new player's mailbox, like the Vehicles, Armor, and Flair you get when you create a toon.

 

Would the price crater? Absolutely. But why? Players still have billions of credits, so that didn't change. Players still make money via the usual activities, so why the price drop? Well, obviously because it's no longer "rare".

 

More importantly, because THLS is no longer "rare", players will not spend real-life money to take a chance on obtaining it via a hypercrate. (Digital gambling if you will, and oh by the way, the EU came down hard on EA (iinm) when they pulled that stunt with the FIFA World Cup game). This is why everything you can find in a hypercrate can ALSO be found on the CM.

 

But what cannot be found on the CM are old crates and items. Here is where the Devs not only missed the boat but didn't even get to the dock. Since EA owns the digital rights to those {WIDGETS}, they could, theoretically, put them on a vendor, and sell them ad infinitum (Again, "digital rarity only in reverse). Put the Czerka CZ-4 Blaster pistol on a vendor, make the price one million credits (and BoL), and the people who want to buy the thing can and will.

 

There. Now the CM is unaffected (the proverbial elephant in the room), credits are drained from the economy, new players have something to work towards, and older players can fill in the gaps on their "Space Barbie / Ken"

 

While it’s not a bad idea (I think you’re onto something), I will say 1 million credits would be way too cheap. Those things should probably be closer to 10-20 million credits at a vendor or maybe even higher.

[OddballEasyEight]

Sure what ever you say. I’m sure my Bachelor of Economics degree disagrees with your assumption I know nothing about inflation.

 

Odd that they didn't teach you about the difference between inflation and they symptoms of inflation then.

 

And to be clear, this is a game, not real world economics, so many of the same principles don’t apply anyway. And you can artificially control the economy anyway they need to lower prices.

 

Oh I know. Or did I give you the impression that I thought this was real world economics?

 

I also never said higher prices were inflation. That’s your interpretation of what I said. So please stop trying to discredit what I said by misrepresenting me. It’s a cheap shot at trying to get your point across.

 

No, you never did say that.

But you were *very* vehement that they should stop sales of high priced items at *all* costs.

 

Also, don't talk about cheap shots after saying "You can try and disguise your request as being altruistic in reducing credits in the game faster. But anyone who thinks honestly about it will realise it’s false altruism and is just to make it easier for you to sell things higher".

 

The idea is to slow inflation and at the same time lower prices that are already over inflated. And you don’t need to apply normal economic theory to do it.

 

Inflation will always happen. But if there is a hard sales cap, then it means prices will never go above a certain price. Different countries already do stuff like this with certain sectors or products like food, medicine and rents. This keeps the costs of living down and allows other parts of the economy to stay under control.

 

That is basically what the GTN limit does in the game. So increasing the GTN cap allows inflation to continue above the artificial cap. Which increases the “costs of living” for new players in the game if they want anything from the GTN.

 

Umm sure.

But those are for basic necessities for survival.

Nothing on the GTN is needed for survival in the game.

Certainly nothing that's selling for 1 bn.

And again, those sales caps do not actually stop or lower inflation. They only stop the increase of the price of those items.

The actual value of the currency will still plummet.

And like you pointed out... this isn't real life economics.

EDIT: Oh and since you brought up new players, do you honestly think it'll make a lick of difference for a new player if the Tulak Hord lightsaber is 1 billion or 3 billion?

 

 

If you still can’t see how increasing the GTN cap is bad for the game after it’s been explained by myself and other multiple people, there is nothing I can say to convince you. So let’s just agree that we will never agree on this and stop attacking each other.

 

Oh I can certainly agree that we can stop attacking each other.

 

I still disagree with you and I will still voice my opinion on that, since I assume you're not going to stop voicing yours on the subject in this thread.

 

Or are we both agreeing to gracefully bow out from talking in this thread at all?

Edited January 21, 2022 by OddballEasyEight

[Ulrah]

(From the other thread, I'm reposting what I wrote)

 

*****************************

 

As (I think) Devereaux and others have said, inflation is a symptom, not the disease. The issue remains the lack of (viable) items on which to spend creds. This is partially because of the (antiquated) notion of "digital rarity".

 

For example, Tulak Horde's LS (currently selling for over 1 billion on Star Forge) is, apparently, a rare drop from Cartel Packs / Crates / Hypercrates. But it doesn't have to be. Technically speaking, EA could put one in every player's inventory tonight. Or it could be a "Thank you" and show up in every new player's mailbox, like the Vehicles, Armor, and Flair you get when you create a toon.

 

Would the price crater? Absolutely. But why? Players still have billions of credits, so that didn't change. Players still make money via the usual activities, so why the price drop? Well, obviously because it's no longer "rare".

 

More importantly, because THLS is no longer "rare", players will not spend real-life money to take a chance on obtaining it via a hypercrate. (Digital gambling if you will, and oh by the way, the EU came down hard on EA (iinm) when they pulled that stunt with the FIFA World Cup game). This is why everything you can find in a hypercrate can ALSO be found on the CM.

 

But what cannot be found on the CM are old crates and items. Here is where the Devs not only missed the boat but didn't even get to the dock. Since EA owns the digital rights to those {WIDGETS}, they could, theoretically, put them on a vendor, and sell them ad infinitum (Again, "digital rarity only in reverse). Put the Czerka CZ-4 Blaster pistol on a vendor, make the price one million credits (and BoL), and the people who want to buy the thing can and will.

 

There. Now the CM is unaffected (the proverbial elephant in the room), credits are drained from the economy, new players have something to work towards, and older players can fill in the gaps on their "Space Barbie / Ken"

^ a great post with an interesting proposal...

 

Amidst the above, you also did a good job of highlighting something I have said for a long time now: BW controls supply, so BW controls prices (regardless of credit supply, etc.).

 

But given this, we need to examine why Bioware seems to like some items being extremely rare/valuable. The CZX blaster pistol is a good example: has sold for 15b+ on my server. Since BW controls supply of this item, it is rare because they want it to be.

 

This is an example of how a cash shop that is as prominent as the CM infects almost every element of MMO design. Every change/addition to the game is run through the question: "How will this effect the CM?". Bioware WANTS these items to be extremely valuable. These items basically allow them to have something very expensive, that most people will need to buy stuff with CC then sell to afford, without the shame of having it on the CM for very high CC cost (say 20k+ CC).

 

I like your idea of a vendor that takes credits for "expensive" items as a credit-sink, but I suspect the prices would need to be higher if it is seeded with CM items. Some other stuff that could be done here - shuffle vendor inventory, adjust prices on the vendor dynamically with demand, seed with unique items, etc.

[TrixxieTriss]

 

EDIT: Oh and since you brought up new players, do you honestly think it'll make a lick of difference for a new player if the Tulak Hord lightsaber is 1 billion or 3 billion?

 

I’m going to choose to ignore the rest of that last post so we are not tiit for tat posting.

 

But I will reply to this to get back on topic.

 

Of course I don’t think it would make any difference to a brand new player because they are as unlikely to have 1 billion credits, let alone 3 billion.

 

But where it makes a difference is when you raise the cap on those ultra expensive items, other people (ie crafters), will raise their prices on less expensive items so they can afford to buy said LS for 3 billion credits.

 

What you are failing to comprehend is that increasing the cap will loosen the restrictions on inflation because the cap is currently holding the majority of prices at 1 billion max. Increasing that cap relaxes that restriction and more people will try selling items higher than 1 billion. Which in turn drives inflation faster across the GTN as other players raise prices on other items to be able to afford the new shinnies above 1 billion.

 

That’s how it affects new players because the items they could afford now with a little bit of play time will get more expensive and become out of reach of new players. You need to consider 2 things. 1. BioWare are nerfing conquest credits so these new players are already going to be at a disadvantage than they would be now. 2. BioWare obviously aren’t going to inject easy fast credits into lower lvls again because credit sellers would just farm them to sell.

 

So BioWare need to keep the cap on the GTN, exactly the same way you have governments who keep caps on food or rents so that the less we’ll off aren’t priced out of the market. Remember, BioWare is trying to grow player numbers, the last thing they want is for new players to feel like they can’t afford anything on the GTN and then leave.

Edited January 21, 2022 by TrixxieTriss

[sharpenedstick]

The devs don't care about inflation.

 

I keep seeing threads with grandiose suggestions based on fundamental reworks of existing systems. Whether or not these ideas are good or would be an improvement is irrelevant. We're not getting them.

 

EAware is only willing to devote a modest amount of resources to the game. They are trying to simplify SWTOR, probably so that it can be run more cheaply. This is why class stories got the axe. It's why we've never gotten a new class, and never will (maybe, someday, new advanced classes as these require no new voice acting or locations), and it's why 7.0 is pruning abilities.

 

The devs don't have the first idea of how to fix inflation, and they aren't going to try. Accept that everything is going to be priced in millions and billions.

[Rolodome]

This is an example of how a cash shop that is as prominent as the CM infects almost every element of MMO design. Every change/addition to the game is run through the question: "How will this effect the CM?". Bioware WANTS these items to be extremely valuable. These items basically allow them to have something very expensive, that most people will need to buy stuff with CC then sell to afford, without the shame of having it on the CM for very high CC cost (say 20k+ CC).

Yep. I doubt it's at all coincidental that alliance crates are designed to be similar to a lootbox experience, that GC was even more so that way, etc. Seemed pretty obvious at the time it was about normalizing lootboxes and addiction. Later, referrals were removed and seasons were added, what does any of that have to do with fun gameplay? More to do with the store.

 

A game doesn't have to be as infected by its store as this game is, but they really went all in when they added it, in true EA fashion. I think the only thing that has prevented them from getting more flack for it over the years is the sheer lack of continuity in players to realize the extent of it and call them out.

 

The more I look at this game's decisions over the years post-store-being-added, the more it becomes clear that what seems senseless and random often has a kind of sense if you look at it from the standpoint of helping the store. That's not to say nothing they've done has ever been weird and experimental and made no sense, but overall, I think it's less so than it appears. It's just we tend to look at it from the standpoint of an actually fun game designed as a game and they are looking at it as a vehicle for store sales. When you look at it that way, it's no wonder their community team is so often awol and can't defend the game's decisions properly.

[Severith]

Yep. I doubt it's at all coincidental that alliance crates are designed to be similar to a lootbox experience, that GC was even more so that way, etc. Seemed pretty obvious at the time it was about normalizing lootboxes and addiction. Later, referrals were removed and seasons were added, what does any of that have to do with fun gameplay? More to do with the store.

 

A game doesn't have to be as infected by its store as this game is, but they really went all in when they added it, in true EA fashion. I think the only thing that has prevented them from getting more flack for it over the years is the sheer lack of continuity in players to realize the extent of it and call them out.

 

The more I look at this game's decisions over the years post-store-being-added, the more it becomes clear that what seems senseless and random often has a kind of sense if you look at it from the standpoint of helping the store. That's not to say nothing they've done has ever been weird and experimental and made no sense, but overall, I think it's less so than it appears. It's just we tend to look at it from the standpoint of an actually fun game designed as a game and they are looking at it as a vehicle for store sales. When you look at it that way, it's no wonder their community team is so often awol and can't defend the game's decisions properly.

 

It's even less of a seeming coincidence when those exact same lootbox mechanics, and the game director responsible for them, are transfered to Bioware's uncoming hit "Anthem", despite the entire SWTOR community being up in arms about how bad the system was.

 

It might sound crazy, but I'm of the firm opinion that the reason SWTOR is still around is to gauge how predatory EA can get with monitization in MMOs. It's like they're trying to figure out how to make something pay to win without letting players directly buy power from the cash shop, in order to avoid the "mobile game" stigma.

 

They know their sports game audience, but it's taken a lot longer to pin down the "nerd market". Just look at the huge misstep with the mobile version of Dungeon Keeper, Anthem, Andromeda, Star Wars Battlefront, etc.

[Rolodome]

It's even less of a seeming coincidence when those exact same lootbox mechanics, and the game director responsible for them, are transfered to Bioware's uncoming hit "Anthem", despite the entire SWTOR community being up in arms about how bad the system was.

 

It might sound crazy, but I'm of the firm opinion that the reason SWTOR is still around is to gauge how predatory EA can get with monitization in MMOs. It's like they're trying to figure out how to make something pay to win without letting players directly buy power from the cash shop, in order to avoid the "mobile game" stigma.

 

They know their sports game audience, but it's taken a lot longer to pin down the "nerd market". Just look at the huge misstep with the mobile version of Dungeon Keeper, Anthem, Andromeda, Star Wars Battlefront, etc.

Glad I'm not the only one who has had that thought. It does feel a bit wild to consider (in practice, it would prob be coded directives from upper management, not openly instructed that way), but the whole "testing ground" thought has crossed my mind before. It fits a little too well with how often and easily they throw away old gameplay systems to try something new. A practice that usually makes no business sense.