Well, I did it and I don't know what the heck I was thinking

[TrixxieTriss]

well if the merc/mando on SF that is named "trixxietriss" is not you, then i guess you have an imposter. either way they're terrible.

 

i think it is you though

 

I always have “fans” or “trolls” using my name on every server

 

And trust me, I’m not vain enough to use my forum name in the game to be trolled or harassed by haters or fans. I like to play incognito.

 

Still waiting for you to explain why you aren’t playing ranked arena instead of 8v8.

Edited May 20, 2021 by TrixxieTriss

[black_pyros]

if this were true it would be called PwP (players playing with players) or something instead of PvP (player versus player). it seems you are the one who is "misinformed" as to what PvP means, you may want to look up the definition of versus. the fact of the matter is that "objing" or playing the objectives by definition is actually a PvE aspect within a PvP zone; by definition objects are part of the environment thus "objing" is literally PvE (player versus environment). so, now that we have properly described these therms and the aspects of warzones we can easily clear up the conundrum as to who the better PvPers are. which is simple, the people PvPing are the best PvPers, there is nothing to argue about, this is simple logic. as for "objers" they are not the best PvPers, in fact they aren't PvPing at all (except when they stop doing the objectives and actually PvP). technically they are the best PvErs in warzones.

"We" have described nothing as I completely disagree with you and it is you who should seek the definition of versus. Versus means "against somebody or something", "opposed to" or "in contrast to".

 

PvP means player versus player so it means players opposed to - or in other words competing - each other and competing doesn't necessarily mean killing. You can compete with others by doing many different things, for example Football players (no matter if IRL or some E-sport game) compete not by killing each other but by doing objectives aka scoring goals with ball. Racers do the very same, only the objective is to reach finish line before their opponents do it. Again no matter if IRL or E-sport. All these E-sport games are PvP as players compete there and they certainly don't kill each other. They are not PvE because they don't compete Artificial Intelligence, simple as that.

 

There is zero PvE in instanced PvP matches in SWTOR (if I don't count traps like fires in huttballs or pylon explosions in AH). The objectives are part of PvP because you compete other players over them to achieve victory. You know when the objectives would be PvE? Only if there was any Artificial Intelligence like bots that would compete with you over them. You know, like operations... where players compete with AI like bosses or mobs to achieve certain objective, which is to kill each other. Players are trying to kill the boss and it is trying to kill them and that is PvE.

 

 

TL;DR: PvP is players competing other living and breathing players aka sentient beings to achieve victory while conditions of victory may vary, e.g. in arenas you need to kill opponents before they kill you, in objectives based maps you need to reach certain score before the opponents do it, in some E-sport racing game you need to reach finish line before your opponents reach it, etc.

 

PvE is players competing environment aka Artificial Intelligence aka "not living, not breathing and algorithm based entity" to achieve victory while conditions of victory may also vary.

Edited May 20, 2021 by black_pyros

[black_pyros]

not being able to outdps someone of equal skill if they're focusing solely on PvP while doing objectives is not an opinion, it's a physical fact. some guy who only has to paint one house will paint that house faster then if had to paint two houses.

We are not arguing that. Of course having to do less work is faster than more work. You are simply ignoring what we are trying to explain to you. So please, now put all the emotions and all that stuff of who has bigger e-peen or who is better PvPer aside and listen for a while.

 

Using your houses analogy, playing objectives maps properly is like painting two houses at once. Doing some kills while also paying attention to objectives can achieve victory faster than just doing one. So someone that is playing to win and is doing both contributes more to victory than anybody that is only doing one, no matter how good they are at that single thing.

In fact if the task it to paint two houses, no matter how good and fast you are with painting one, if you stop right there you will never paint the second house and never complete the task.

 

In objectives based maps there are certain victory conditions. The fact you don't care about victory because it doesn't really give anything more than a loss or because any other reason doesn't change the fact that some players do care about it. They enter PvP because they want to compete other sentient beings over certain objectives and win.

 

When you ignore it you spoil the games for any player that plays these maps by their intended way. It's like joining some football players on the street and suddenly instead of kicking the ball you start to grab it with hands. They won't certainly like it. Of course you may act selfish and don't care and scream "you special snowflakes", that's your "right".

 

But don't be mistaken, just because they don't pay for your subscription doesn't give you any moral highground to do anything you wish to spoil the game for other players that pay their own subscription to play the game in it's intended way.

No, it doesn't make them special snowflakes either. It only makes you a selfish person that doesn't care about anyone else than themselves. No offense, but it's simple as that.

Edited May 20, 2021 by black_pyros

[Llacertus]

I’ve also noticed you’ve not once answered why you don’t queue ranked instead of 8v8. Care to explain that to us?

 

I've already explained several posts back why people don't do ranked. I don't even see why you continue to bring up this point. It's clear you've never once touched ranked in your life so stop talking about something you have no experience with.

[Raansu]

I've already explained several posts back why people don't do ranked. I don't even see why you continue to bring up this point. It's clear you've never once touched ranked in your life so stop talking about something you have no experience with.

 

Ya, and your reasoning is pretty hypocritical.

 

"Ranked is toxic, so I'm gonna be blatantly toxic in regs instead lawl"

[TrixxieTriss]

I've already explained several posts back why people don't do ranked. I don't even see why you continue to bring up this point. It's clear you've never once touched ranked in your life so stop talking about something you have no experience with.

 

I’m asking him why he doesn’t play ranked. I’m not asking why you or other people don’t. Unless you’re the same poster on another account, I’m not sure why you are trying to answer on his behalf.

Edited May 21, 2021 by TrixxieTriss

[crayzpanda]

Sorry for coming into this thread late as I just been reading and seeing what's good on these forums as I myself have been an avid pvper though not as long as most people here. I started to do some pvp I would say the first day that expertise was gone so late 4.8/9 and fully going in 5.0. Sorry if my timeline is off on that. I just wanted to share my thoughts.

 

I, like a few others, I'm a big dpser. I just want to go into a match and just destroy people on my lightning sorc. I don't really care about objectives as much as others, quite frankly depending on my team, I'll suck it up and do objs, I have no problem with that but I just go in there to do "big dick" damage which I'm good at. For someone to tell anyone to "go do 8v8's" I get it but I'll do whatever I want in a PvP match, we can agree to disagree on that point. For me, it depends on the map that we play. Part of my obj is to kill x amount of people therefore making it easier to win or play objs better but that's neither here nor there.

 

2nd: To the gent that said he can do an easy 20k "come at me bro" that's very cool, I wish I could do 20k but that's never happened through out my history of pvping. I'm usually in the top 3 dps and the most I've ever done/seen is 15k but you seem like the type of guy that runs in a premade, just my assumption.

 

3rd: I will say this as I've fallen in and out of love with the recent pvp. 6.0 is a mix of love/hate. My own personal experience has been the upstart of premades from the get go. People are now getting into premades because they are tired of getting stomped time in and out by other premades so I've seen more premades come up (SF only). I solo queue most times and with the input of this "deserter debuff" it's not very fun for me as a PvPer to know that I'm going to get stomped on for 5/10/15 mins by a premade when all I want to do is at least do some damage, have a little bit of fun. Even when there was a premade stomping us and we were capping both nodes, hypergate for example, its still not fun. I hate this deserter debuff with a passion, it doesn't solve anything for me as a player especially when I get backfilled into a losing team and gotta pretty much either play or afk, majority being afk. The only work around I have in general is to leave the server and go play SS. That's my only work around to not having to sit 15 mins twiddling my thumbs because the deserter debuff is server wide not legacy wide. So send a couple toons to other servers to avoid if you want.

 

And just adding to above point before going to my next one. I also absolutely despise hypergate and voidstar more so hypergate in general. All it ever is to me is an operative going to the pylon whether it be by him/herself or with someone to entertain 6 people that can't kill he/she or them. To anyone saying "git gud", I don't need to "git gud" I just don't like the aspect of 2 people holding off 6 people and me just looking like if this how the match is going to go and I get 5 more of these in a row of hypergates, I might as well not even queue up for the rest of the week because I'll be so sick to my stomach.

 

My last point I think, sorry for the "************, moaning and complaining". I wouldn't mind of bioware fixed some of the issues, got rid of the deserter debuff or quite frankly made it 5 mins, made it so we can queue up for maps and put others to shame, created a TDM style map to please the people that just want to blow others up. I'd ask for premades to be against premades else where but then the queue might die so I guess I can't wish that. Maybe, idk, fix the actual issue of skank tanks and their guard. Bioware decided to nerf the guard on dps and not an actual skank tank when the actual issue was that a skank tank can guard whomever without the now 50% damage debuff or any debuff at all, fix what some of us were asking for.

[zerkington]

I’ve also noticed you’ve not once answered why you don’t queue ranked instead of 8v8. Care to explain that to us?

 

yet another false assumption, yippee. when and where did i ever state that i do not do ranked? i do both, always have, always will.

 

Like I've said several times now. If you want pure TDM then stick to arenas. Don't be a hypocrite like another poster in this thread talking about 4v4 being toxic and then turning around and being toxic in warzones by just being a numbers farmer with his premade giving legitimate premades a bad look.

 

you are not the arbiter of what is proper, nor legitimate, nor anything else. the only one i see actively being a hypocrite is yourself.

 

Still waiting for you to explain why you aren’t playing ranked arena instead of 8v8.

 

you're still waiting for an answer to a question in which you falsely fabricated a fictional scenario in which i do not do ranked? bless your tiny soul.

 

We are not arguing that. Of course having to do less work is faster than more work. You are simply ignoring what we are trying to explain to you. So please, now put all the emotions and all that stuff of who has bigger e-peen or who is better PvPer aside and listen for a while.

 

to be fair, it is you guys who are getting butthurt that people focus solely on PvP in warzones. i am not the one losing my mind over players doing objectives. in fact i do not care in any way, shape, or form. the only thing that makes me cringe is the fact that you guys are trying to tell everyone that if they don't play like you do then they shouldn't play warzones at all, and that you are better PvPers then the people who are solely focused on PvPing, what a joke. you're the ones being emotional hypocrites, stop self-projecting.

 

Using your houses analogy, playing objectives maps properly is like painting two houses at once. Doing some kills while also paying attention to objectives can achieve victory faster than just doing one. So someone that is playing to win and is doing both contributes more to victory than anybody that is only doing one, no matter how good they are at that single thing.

In fact if the task it to paint two houses, no matter how good and fast you are with painting one, if you stop right there you will never paint the second house and never complete the task.

 

if we wanted to use my house analogy even more accurately in regards to players solely focusing on PvP versus objective players in warzones; would you rather have one guy who paints a single house in an allotted amount of time with perfection (the PvPer), or the guy who tries to paint two houses in the same amount of time, does a terrible job, and finishes neither of the houses (the objective player)?

 

In objectives based maps there are certain victory conditions. The fact you don't care about victory because it doesn't really give anything more than a loss or because any other reason doesn't change the fact that some players do care about it. They enter PvP because they want to compete other sentient beings over certain objectives and win.

 

yes, exactly, and the fact that you dont care for people solely PvPing doesn't change the fact that some players do like to do so. they enter PvP because they want to PvP. so don't be a hypocrite.

 

When you ignore it you spoil the games for any player that plays these maps by their intended way.

 

this is completely subjective, and again the same exact statement could be made in reverse.

 

But don't be mistaken, just because they don't pay for your subscription doesn't give you any moral highground to do anything you wish to spoil the game for other players that pay their own subscription to play the game in it's intended way.

 

it does actually give me the moral high ground to play the way i want to and choose to play the things i want because i pay for my subscription. the fact that you pay for yours (im assuming you pay for your own sub) does not give YOU the moral high ground to tell others how to play. i am not telling objective players not to play, you're the one telling PvPers not to PvP.

 

No, it doesn't make them special snowflakes either. It only makes you a selfish person that doesn't care about anyone else than themselves. No offense, but it's simple as that.

 

and you're a hypocrite who thinks he can tell others what to do. you don't get to tell anyone what to do regarding anything, ever. no offense, but it's as simple as that. snowflake.

[zerkington]

2nd: To the gent that said he can do an easy 20k "come at me bro" that's very cool, I wish I could do 20k but that's never happened through out my history of pvping. I'm usually in the top 3 dps and the most I've ever done/seen is 15k but you seem like the type of guy that runs in a premade, just my assumption.

 

i didn't say 20k is easy. in fact, i meant the opposite. getting high dps/hps and kills is hard, which is fun. i said that objectives are easy, which they are, which is why they are not fun. i have done 20k multiple times and i've seen higher. don't worry, keep playing and im sure you'll eventually get to a point where you get some 18-20k games, especially on lightning sorc. as for your assumption about me being "the type of guy that runs in a premade", i already stated in a previous reply that i run solo or in a two man 99% of the time.

[Raansu]

to be fair, it is you guys who are getting butthurt that people focus solely on PvP in warzones. i am not the one losing my mind over players doing objectives. in fact i do not care in any way, shape, or form. the only thing that makes me cringe is the fact that you guys are trying to tell everyone that if they don't play like you do then they shouldn't play warzones at all, and that you are better PvPers then the people who are solely focused on PvPing, what a joke. you're the ones being emotional hypocrites, stop self-projecting.

 

The problem is there's no logic to what you're doing. If you don't like objective based pvp then why are you queuing warzones? There is a mode made specifically for you, its called 4v4 arenas. Go queue for that and buzz off out of warzones.

[TrixxieTriss]

The problem is there's no logic to what you're doing. If you don't like objective based pvp then why are you queuing warzones? There is a mode made specifically for you, its called 4v4 arenas. Go queue for that and buzz off out of warzones.

 

I’ve given up responding to that poster. At this point I’m 90% sure most of it is trolling.

[zerkington]

The problem is there's no logic to what you're doing. If you don't like objective based pvp then why are you queuing warzones? There is a mode made specifically for you, its called 4v4 arenas. Go queue for that and buzz off out of warzones.

 

i do and will continue to do ranked, as i also do and will continue to do regs. if you don't like it, you can buzz off and go play any of the PvE content instead of queueing for a PvP zone. nothing you ever say or do will change this.

 

I’ve given up responding to that poster. At this point I’m 90% sure most of it is trolling.

 

roflmao, imagine arguing in bad faith, every single point you try to make has no basis in reality and is a fabricated fallacy. then having all of them refuted and then referring to the other person as a troll. wait, i don't have to trixxie just did.

[Raansu]

i do and will continue to do ranked,

 

Somehow I doubt that.

[zerkington]

Somehow I doubt that.

 

of no consequence.

[Raansu]

of no consequence.

 

Sure there is. Its me globaling you and my team winning the match while you're running off somewhere attempting to dps farm.

[Bird_of_Thunder]

damn this is some of the most low effort trolling I've seen on these forums. that's a pretty impressive accomplishment, hat's off to ya

[zerkington]

Sure there is. Its me globaling you and my team winning the match while you're running off somewhere attempting to dps farm.

 

your fantasies are also of no consequence. in reality, have fun being out healed, out damaged, out protected, and out killed (basically out performed in almost every manner) by better players. the only thing you'll ever excel at is medals and deaths.

[Raansu]

your fantasies are also of no consequence. in reality, have fun being out healed, out damaged, out protected, and out killed (basically out performed in almost every manner) by better players. the only thing you'll ever excel at is medals and deaths.

 

I'm at the top or in top 3 pretty much every match. I can spot a bad player from a mile away, and you're one of them.

[zerkington]

I'm at the top or in top 3 pretty much every match. I can spot a bad player from a mile away, and you're one of them.

 

that's a pretty stupid thing to say considering you've never seen me play. or rather you probably have, you just don't know it's me. i am typically top dps in every single warzone i enter, usually by multitudes. the only time i ever get out dpsed is if im queueing solo against a full premade of zergers that have pocket heals, tank, and ranged dps. in which case some times one of their snipers or lightning sorcs might out damage me by a 100-200k. otherwise, i am almost never out damaged or out killed by anyone. hell, even in that scenario where im queueing solo against full premade zergers i still steal top dps a majority of the time. it's a shame though really, if you really do usually come top three in dps you could have ended up one day actually being a competitive player, provided you stopped doing objs. oh well, guess we'll never know.

[Illedros]

Why don't you guys just meet up somewhere and duel? Then put it on youtube. Aren't you both on SF?

[Bird_of_Thunder]

bring back 1v1s to settle debates

[A-Hero-Falls]

Just throwing this out there ...

 

People shouldn't be told how to play a certain way in PvP as a video game is video game and there is no written rule in PvP that you have to play objectives.

 

They come on to their enjoyment purposes not to fulfil anyone else's as they pay for their subscriptions and get to choose with out consequence how to play PvP.

 

There is no argument in telling a player that they can be told how they should play their game given what has be explained above. If I had make a choice I would ultimately lean over the fact that and agree that players should have their own choice into playing how they want in PvP.

 

As players - I'm surprised that other players don't have the maturity or decency to understand that in these forums coming from an clear minded individual that wants both sides (Objective players and Non- Objective) to enjoy the game for what it is.

 

Ultimately, this argument is pointless as between people, the bioware team needs to figure out a solution for both types of players to enjoy the video game fitted into their purposes such as categorizing PvP combat without objectives - Adding new maps for 8 v 8 kills only - team death match scenario and most importantly adding a map selection que. Maybe even adding more Objective maps for the players that enjoy that type of game play ... Perhaps even maybe adding Ranked Map Objective PvP in another selection que option. More options for another separate que for Solo ranked and give the option to make it 1 v 1 or 2 v 2.

 

Just more idea's that can given to Bioware so they can make the fix as this is the only way for all players to enjoy the game with more options.

 

Something new and refreshing is what all most players would be happy with.

 

[Enticy]

As players - I'm surprised that other players don't have the maturity or decency to understand that in these forums coming from an clear minded individual that wants both sides (Objective players and Non- Objective) to enjoy the game for what it is.

 

Welcome to an MMO player base. Maturity and decency are at an all-time low in this part of the world. If you say the sky isn’t green, someone will come along to argue otherwise as belligerently as possible. That’s just the nature of the beast.

[Raansu]

Just throwing this out there ...

 

People shouldn't be told how to play a certain way in PvP as a video game is video game and there is no written rule in PvP that you have to play objectives.

 

Does it negatively impact the rest of the players? Then yes they absolutely should be told how to play. FFXIV GM's will actually throw your character into a jail as a form of an account suspension if you're being a negative impact. Solo's and Warzones would be so much of a better place if swtor had GM's that did that.

[zerkington]

There'd still be pvp. Players like you just wouldn't be ruining.

 

which is roughly half the population of warzones. so, you're partially right. there would probably be one instance or so running during prime time and it would be dead the rest of the time. oh well, it doesn't really matter. even bioware isn't dumb enough to do something like that because they know exactly what the result would be. no point arguing about something that wont happen.