Scoundrels/Operatives ridculously OP.

[Bullsith]

The burst is incredible...best in the game, hands down. But if you nerf that, Operatives/Scoundrels need something else in return, because we're garbage in Huttball right now. The most important tools in Huttball are gap closers (like force leap), combat sprints, grapples/pulls, and knockbacks. Operatives have none of those, so we have far less utility in the most-played PvP map.

 

You are basically the only class that can eliminate the flag carrier next to the line. I play a tank SW almost 18k health, I saw it go down to 40% in an instant.

 

Honestly I don't know what to say, people say nerf the opener that pretty much decides the outcome of a fight and that's wrong, I agree with that nerf. But you say you aren't much good without the opener. So yeah, I don't know what to believe. That the class actually sucks or that the people playing it do, and put all their money on the opener, cause let's face it, when you have an ability that is that good, you depend on it to finish the job, outside of that your field of expertise regarding the class fails. Simply put I can't decide if it's a L2P issue or not since I fought a few scoundrels who, even out of stealth damaged me badly.

[blackadda]

. The most important tools in Huttball are gap closers (like force leap), combat sprints, grapples/pulls, and knockbacks. Operatives have none of those, so we have far less utility in the most-played PvP map.

 

The most important aspect in huttball is PASSING and getting in position for quick passes/goals.

 

As a stealther you can get into position and destealth to receive a pass and be totally usefull....more so in that role than anyone who cant stealth.

 

When the opposition has the ball you spend time trolling your own defensive line and making sure enemies who are in good positon to receive passes die horrible deaths via your insane burst dmg combo and you have the best CC in the game to use directly against carriers and their support.

 

the main thing however is the passing//receiving game, doing it yourself and denying it to the other team = winning huttball 99% of the time.

[raelimar]

Um... Pass? The game is about team work, not fancy skills that cheapen the sport.

 

Oh, and yeah, balancing a class around Huttball = lol.

 

I pass all the time - to my premade's Assassin, who has far better mobility, CC, and utility than I do. Considering Huttball accounts for the vast majority of PvP on most PvP servers...yeah, it's a good idea to make sure classes are competitive in that setting. Right now, the only thing damage-spec Operatives are good for is assassinating the ball carrier before they can pass. If you neuter that damage, they need something else.

 

The most important aspect in huttball is PASSING and getting in position for quick passes/goals.

 

As a stealther you can get into position and destealth to receive a pass and be totally usefull....more so in that role than anyone who cant stealth.

 

When the opposition has the ball you spend time trolling your own defensive line and making sure enemies who are in good positon to receive passes die horrible deaths via your insane burst dmg combo and you have the best CC in the game to use directly against carriers and their support.

 

the main thing however is the passing//receiving game, doing it yourself and denying it to the other team = winning huttball 99% of the time.

 

Again, I pass all the time, to people more suited. And I don't have an insane burst damage combo - I'm Medicine spec, it's much better for group settings. Concealment is only useful for playing Rambo.

Edited January 4, 2012 by raelimar

[Gratus_Mortuus]

ops/scoundrel opener gives full white resolve bar on open. this does little to help you though, when over 80% of your health is gone in the time it takes to respond and cc-break (should you be lucky enough to have that off cooldown).

 

further, resolve does not respond to snares, roots. So if the operative opens on you... takes 80% of your life... and then snares you to get easy access to your back... you are dead. It may have felt like a stun-lock...it wasn't...but that really doesn't matter. the dmg was done.

 

broken class is broken.

 

This.

 

Oh wait, Bioware already knows it.

 

I expect no change. just being realistic.

[Mursie]

You are basically the only class that can eliminate the flag carrier next to the line. I play a tank SW almost 18k health, I saw it go down to 40% in an instant.

 

Honestly I don't know what to say, people say nerf the opener that pretty much decides the outcome of a fight and that's wrong, I agree with that nerf. But you say you aren't much good without the opener. So yeah, I don't know what to believe. That the class actually sucks or that the people playing it do, and put all their money on the opener, cause let's face it, when you have an ability that is that good, you depend on it to finish the job, outside of that your field of expertise regarding the class fails. Simply put I can't decide if it's a L2P issue or not since I fought a few scoundrels who, even out of stealth damaged me badly.

 

when you go from hitting ppl for 7k on an opener to only hitting them for 2.5-3.5k out of combat you feel like your "crap out of stealth". do not be sucked into this ridiculous argument. Compared to 7k, yes, their dmg out of stealth is garbage. Compared to all other dmg in the game... their dmg out of stealth is in-line.

[TheRealMesk]

Please tell me you're the Mesk with the butterfly tattoo that played on Archimonde. Lulz.

 

While I have several tats none of them are butterflies...

[Ursus-SUON]

There has been a lot of good posts in this thread and the OP is indeed correct. Any one has ever played any kind of MMO, knows that these kind of things happen. The knockdown is untrinketable for most classes. I believe only the counselor and maybe the inquisitor can break the initial knockdown. I don't have any grand scheme to fix this, but if you don't believe the opening shots/slashes of a smuggler/agent are OP (or more than enough) then you haven't encountered it yet. Any top 50 smuggler will outplay any other top 50 in a 1v1. You people say 1v1's don't happen in warzones? are you fcking nuts? facepalm. Edited January 4, 2012 by Ursus-SUON

[Mursie]

For the unaware.

 

Here is a video of an operative at LEVEL 40. (NOT 50).

 

things to note: The opener of dmg at just level 40.

 

4 minutes 30 seconds into the clip: Notice the operative drop into cover and SNIPE at 30 METERS for over 4K in a single attack. let me say that again... THIRTY METERS AWAY... A MELEE OPERATIVE DOES 4K DAMAGE... AND HE IS LEVEL 40.

 

watch his attacks out of stealth...notice the 1,2,and 3K hits.

 

please... this is LEVEL 40 FOLKS. see this guy at level 50 in champ gear... rofl.. its laughable.

 

 

[Bekkal]

Usually in a group, and considering that the sap strategy WORKED and worked well as it kept my from interrupting his stealth, yeeeah, sorry, but I'm thinking that you're just not using it right. Plus even if I DoT them, the vanish usually lasts long enough for them to get their attack off. Also I really don't care if its on a 2 minute cooldown, no other 2 minute cooldown kills people quite like that. Not to mention 2 minutes can be pretty short at times.

 

He should be sapping your healer or your best stunner/dotter, then opening on the squishiest person.

 

For people who suggest that the "rogue" class is fundamentally broken, the "Open from stealth, you're <60% now" mechanic has been in MMOs for right around a decade now, and has been working fine the entire time. If you're squishy, and a stealther gets you alone, you're dead. That's it. That's how the game is played.

 

It's similar to how if you're on a bridge, and you're against a Sorc, you're dead. That's just the nature of the beast right there.

[Sevvy]

While I have several tats none of them are butterflies...

 

Maybe it wasn't a butterfly. I just remember teasing you about a tattoo and you got pissed off. Maybe it was a mermaid...

 

Anyway, water under the bridge. I like to bust chops. Sup?

[Kuari]

There has been a lot of good posts in this thread and the OP is indeed correct. Any one has ever played any kind of MMO, knows that these kind of things happen. The knockdown is untrinketable for most classes. I believe only the counselor and maybe the inquisitor can break the initial knockdown. I don't have any grand scheme to fix this, but if you don't believe the opening shots/slashes of a smuggler/agent are OP (or more than enough) then you haven't encountered it yet. Any top 50 smuggler will outplay any other top 50 in a 1v1. You people say 1v1's don't happen in warzones? are you fcking nuts? facepalm.

 

Even if it didn't happen in warzones, a good stealther can always make the situation 1 v 1 long enough to do their thing. It just become ridiculously easy when they can 2-3 shot. As for Huttball role... you wouldn't be any worse off than the other AC for your class.

 

He should be sapping your healer or your best stunner/dotter, then opening on the squishiest person.

 

For people who suggest that the "rogue" class is fundamentally broken, the "Open from stealth, you're <60% now" mechanic has been in MMOs for right around a decade now, and has been working fine the entire time. If you're squishy, and a stealther gets you alone, you're dead. That's it. That's how the game is played.

 

It's similar to how if you're on a bridge, and you're against a Sorc, you're dead. That's just the nature of the beast right there.

 

Why sap on those people when you can go for the people in the back without anyone noticing if you have any intelligence and guarantee their death? Especially when they are healer or the guy that can put out enough AoE damage to obliterate your allies if they clump up? And that's exactly what the scoundrel I'm referring to with this did. It worked, and it worked flawlessly. So don't tell me someone is an idiot for doing something that worked.

 

Also yeah, that mechanic has been around a long time, but its never been a good mechanic.

Edited January 4, 2012 by Kuari

[Felene]

Have your back against a wall and see what happen to those OP crit.

[Lord_Karsk]

For the unaware.

 

Here is a video of an operative at LEVEL 40. (NOT 50).

 

things to note: The opener of dmg at just level 40.

 

4 minutes 30 seconds into the clip: Notice the operative drop into cover and SNIPE at 30 METERS for over 4K in a single attack. let me say that again... THIRTY METERS AWAY... A MELEE OPERATIVE DOES 4K DAMAGE... AND HE IS LEVEL 40.

 

watch his attacks out of stealth...notice the 1,2,and 3K hits.

 

please... this is LEVEL 40 FOLKS. see this guy at level 50 in champ gear... rofl.. its laughable.

 

 

 

How does he knows hes OP ? he goes out of stealth with only 1/3 of life on purpose and kills the guy.Because he knows he will winn.

[routesman]

The "rogue" archetype is usually the best PvP class in most MMOs.

 

Look at this current WoW season - the rogue is dominant again.

 

If you are a serious PvPer I suggest you suck up your fascination with lightsabers and roll a Operative/Scoundrel. They are truly a blast to play with in PvP.

 

You, sir... are full of fail. Rogues are not 'dominant' in this season of PvP. Rogues have 10 of the top 100 ranked arena players and 11 of the top 100 ranked RBG players. In arenas, 3 classes rule: warlocks and shamans have 23 of the top 100 and mages have 20. In RBGs, the top 3 are: 18 warriors, 17 mages (AGAIN), and 15 paladins.

 

Not only does WoW really have nothing to do with SW:TOR... but your information isn't even correct.

[ironhydra]

For the unaware.

 

Here is a video of an operative at LEVEL 40. (NOT 50).

 

things to note: The opener of dmg at just level 40.

 

4 minutes 30 seconds into the clip: Notice the operative drop into cover and SNIPE at 30 METERS for over 4K in a single attack. let me say that again... THIRTY METERS AWAY... A MELEE OPERATIVE DOES 4K DAMAGE... AND HE IS LEVEL 40.

 

watch his attacks out of stealth...notice the 1,2,and 3K hits.

 

please... this is LEVEL 40 FOLKS. see this guy at level 50 in champ gear... rofl.. its laughable.

 

 

You failed to notice he has a pocket healer the whole time, which makes every encounter 2v1 not 1v1.

[Kuari]

You failed to notice he has a pocket healer the whole time, which makes every encounter 2v1 not 1v1.

 

Doesn't really change the whole damage output question, and umm, no, there are many times he was caught alone in that video.

[gazerous]

I would gladly trade in that insane burst for jedi leap, a knock back, a shield that doesn't disappear after 1 hit from a tank, some sustained damage, about a 35% increase to our HP, run increase that he sages get, and dodge that actually dodges skills and not just random bullets flying around, oh and finally a removed cool down from tendon blast. Cause if we don't have all of those abilities we need our burst to kill you or we die, also tot he people that keep saying that you can't trinket out of our knock down... you are either retarded or have no clue where your escape ability that EVERY CLASS gets, is. I played about 4 different class scoundrel included and I could always trinket out of the OP/ Scoundrels knockdown, then dot him and smack him to death. IN other words if you die to a scoundrel/OP either your trinket was down and you didn't take any pvp oriented talents in your talent tree or you're not meant to PVP cause you're doing it wrong.

[AMKSED]

The amount of defending on this class is even funnier than how the class is actually stupid OP. If you get attacked by this class, you're doing to die unless you can cloak or run away.

[Dirtydurst]

2 options:

 

1) Lower damage on Hidden Strike by 50% and lower armor ignore on Acid Blade from 50% to 30%.

 

2) Keep the damage as is but reduce their healing capabilities and make them wear light armor.

 

I've also noticed that their energy level typically never drops below 50% while they are spamming abilities and absolutely butt ****** someone.

[Kuari]

I would gladly trade in that insane burst for jedi leap, a knock back, a shield that doesn't disappear after 1 hit from a tank, some sustained damage, about a 35% increase to our HP, run increase that he sages get, and dodge that actually dodges skills and not just random bullets flying around, oh and finally a removed cool down from tendon blast. Cause if we don't have all of those abilities we need our burst to kill you or we die, also tot he people that keep saying that you can't trinket out of our knock down... you are either retarded or have no clue where your escape ability that EVERY CLASS gets, is. I played about 4 different class scoundrel included and I could always trinket out of the OP/ Scoundrels knockdown, then dot him and smack him to death. IN other words if you die to a scoundrel/OP either your trinket was down and you didn't take any pvp oriented talents in your talent tree or you're not meant to PVP cause you're doing it wrong.

 

Burst is fine. 2-3 shotting instant cast burst is not. Maybe what you ask would have some basis, if, you know... it was nerfed into the ground rather than properly adjusted.

[johnnyomara]

Use your trinket

 

/thread

[Delavager]

Doesn't really change the whole damage output question, and umm, no, there are many times he was caught alone in that video.

 

Did you watch the same video. He was almost NEVER alone. There were Zero true 1v1 fights in that video, other than him sneaking up on some half dead guy in the corner.

 

That video was a horrible example of the Operative, it was never 1v1. And yes he had a guy healing him most of the game.

 

The person in that video is a good PvPer, that's all. He knew when to get out, where the items were, etc. He's just better at this game than you are basically.

 

The ONLY thing I'd even consider "Overpowered" in that video was the fact that his resources never went down, no matter what he did. He always had full resources.

 

Another thing to note, is that he contributed ZERO to the objective of the game, which is huttball. Operatives don't seem equipped to do much else other than kill, which isn't the basis of warzones. They don't see to be able to contribute to the objective, and they're slow as anything. So in that aspect I'd almost say they're underpowered. 90% of the people he killed in that video were turned around focusing on the ball handling, completely ignoring the operative.

Edited January 4, 2012 by Delavager

[Dirtydurst]

Use your trinket

 

/thread

 

really constructive, ******* troll

[ironhydra]

Burst is fine. 2-3 shotting instant cast burst is not. Maybe what you ask would have some basis, if, you know... it was nerfed into the ground rather than properly adjusted.

 

I never 2-3 shot anyone. The only time people get 3 shot is because of the OP Biochem stims that give them insane crit chance or make their crits hit 70% harder. That goes for almost any class though. We are not OP, Biochem is OP if anything.

[gazerous]

Burst is fine. 2-3 shotting instant cast burst is not. Maybe what you ask would have some basis, if, you know... it was nerfed into the ground rather than properly adjusted.

 

never 3 shotted or 2 shotted anybody on my lvl 50 scoundrel i did kill ppl in 5 gcds but they were usually lowbies when it comes to lvl 50s it usually takes about 9 to 10 gcd to kill them. like i said if OP/scoundrel can get some survivability and sustained damage then well nobody would be complaining, i strongly advise those ppl saying that OP/scoundrel is OP to play it and see how fragile it really is