The problem with Guardian is...

[Twilight_Sea]

I"m a Guardian myself and I find it quite easy to tank. So far when I've been fighting Flashpoint bosses, I've held hate just fine. I see Guardian tanking is more similar to FFXI's Paladin, without the ability to cure yourself. I'm only level 22 myself but still, it's not that hard to tank as Guardian. Just hit Taunt every 15 seconds and you'll be fine. (Pre-30 at least.) Could a Guardian be buffed? Sure! I have ideas on how to buff it but that isn't the place here. I usually roll as DD in MMOs but I wanted to give tanking a try (had experience in past MMOs) and so far I'm loving it! I find it challenging and way more fun than DDing mobs down.

[Manweth]

I have to say that I agree with a poster few posts above this one. I'm lvl 50 and I obtained 3 pieces of champion gear with PvPing and believe me, even though Rep. side loses %80 of the time, I simply dominate the DPS and medals list.

 

I gain defender and protection medals as well because I fire off taunt and AOE taunt whenever they're open. I pop off Master strike and use GRD leap to my allies, I use saber throw and dispatch.....

 

OH.MY.GOD. Dispatch is an instant PvP-win ability! It's almost OP! If someone is %20 of their health and they don't have sorcerer protection on them....

 

Bye bye love, bye bye happiness for them. Dispatch dispatches their backside in oneshot.

 

Result: MVP votes, freakish DPS scores (I began to surpass the 200k mark every match since I got my champ gear), and Empire players that try to gank me while my allies capture/score/plant bomb.

 

Note: I'm Vigilance build and yes, it's a PvE build..... But come PvP, I believe it's one of the most frightening builds out there with its terrifying DPS output and the bonuses it gives to dispatch. Plus, Plasma brand which prevents them from using some of their channels. I may be a tad easy to kill( which means it take 3v1 to kill me), but as I gain playing skills and tactical knowledge, very few Empire players are able to match me.

 

As I understand, Defense built GRDs don't do much DPS as I do, but they gain HUGE Protection scores all around.

[dougan]

I have to say that I agree with a poster few posts above this one. I'm lvl 50 and I obtained 3 pieces of champion gear with PvPing and believe me, even though Rep. side loses %80 of the time, I simply dominate the DPS and medals list.

 

I gain defender and protection medals as well because I fire off taunt and AOE taunt whenever they're open. I pop off Master strike and use GRD leap to my allies, I use saber throw and dispatch.....

 

OH.MY.GOD. Dispatch is an instant PvP-win ability! It's almost OP! If someone is %20 of their health and they don't have sorcerer protection on them....

 

Bye bye love, bye bye happiness for them. Dispatch dispatches their backside in oneshot.

 

Result: MVP votes, freakish DPS scores (I began to surpass the 200k mark every match since I got my champ gear), and Empire players that try to gank me while my allies capture/score/plant bomb.

 

Note: I'm Vigilance build and yes, it's a PvE build..... But come PvP, I believe it's one of the most frightening builds out there with its terrifying DPS output and the bonuses it gives to dispatch. Plus, Plasma brand which prevents them from using some of their channels. I may be a tad easy to kill( which means it take 3v1 to kill me), but as I gain playing skills and tactical knowledge, very few Empire players are able to match me.

 

As I understand, Defense built GRDs don't do much DPS as I do, but they gain HUGE Protection scores all around.

 

Good Defensive GRDs win matches, period.

[Modjoconcarne]

Noone knows how to play them!

 

Honestly, I have to count myself as one of the more successful guardians here, because all this forum seems to be is complaints about how weak they are. I'm not a regular or avid MMO player, I'm only lvl 36 and consistently (and I mean 90% of the time) come first or second in both damage and guarding, every single match.

 

I have a theory as to why - so many people have been playing WoW for so long, they think this game is/should be the same. If I see people compare guardians to Arms/Prot warrior one more time, I may just light someone on fire.

 

Take this post I picked out from the forums from an mmarsh - (sorry to pick on you)

 

 

 

 

Wow where to start - how about the most obvious mistake "Some of our abilities are useless in PVP (like Master Strike)"

 

Master strike is just about my MOST used skill in PVP, I use it EVERY time its off cooldown, and it's REMARKABLY easy to pull off, at least the first two hits, and very often all three. The damage this puts out is amazing. Generally, 1v1 if I get off all three hits, I already know I've won the fight.

 

"the DPS is terrible" - no its not, focus and vigi guardian dps is better then sentinel or very close, depending on how much attention you are paying.

 

Next - "we have no CC until far too late" Not sure what you mean - if you mean late as in class developement, then yes, everyone knows guardians have problems before lvl 30. Post lvl 30, we have more on demand, reliable CC then any other class - it's even more ridiculously good for defense specs. Stasis is AMAZING - it activates quickly, which means not only does it interupt, but can be use for fun things, like stoping sith warriors in mid air when they leap, depriving them of opening focus. Not to mention hilt strike and force push.

 

"we are constantly CC'ed" - its true, we only have Resolute, its on a longish cooldown. But honestly, I survive 1v1 cc easy, 2v1 can be survived by activating blader barrier, and 3v1 i dont expect to survive long anyway unless tank spec. This is fine.

 

"Our better abilities (sunder, blade barrier) have long cooldowns forcing us to rely on spamming vastly inferior ones"

 

Dont agree that those are our better abilities. Sunder/leap/blade throw/stasis is all the focus gen u need, strike isnt on my hotbar, neither is slash. important abilites are force sweep for focus (AMAZING OMG LOVE IT), overhead slash/plasma brand for vigi and hilt strike/guardian slash for tank.

 

"it takes a long time to generate focus." - No it doesnt. Guardian abilites are very cheap. Use combat focus more, i am guilty of neglecting it as well. Even without it, I rarely run out of focus. Vigi is more focus hungry then the focus tree fyi.

 

"(REBUKE) is a Sentinel skill, I don't understand why as Defense is supposed to be the Guardians job"

 

One skill does not make a class. Guardians tank very well in pvp, we have more more gimmicks then sentinels who have rebuke. Whats more, soresu can be fit into ANY guardian build (very well idd with focus) for very little talent points, as all the essential stuff is bottom tree 10. Even without soresu, guardians have enuff survivability in dps spec...except maybe focus, focus is more of an all-in/all-out.

 

I have not played sentinel, so I cant comment on thier superiority, all I know is I find sith marauders very very easy to kill in PVP. Sorcs are harder as they do way too much internal/ele dmg which guardians seem poor to defend. Ranged classes seem to have no chance against me.

 

Seriously, your comment that guardians need re-tooling says to me you are losing and you want to win, rather then that you've looked at the class and came to a considered conclusion. If you want to discuss class balance, never discuss your own experiences - look at leaderboard after pvp matchs and see who is consistently on top. I've found it fairly even, mostly leaning toward Jedi type melees. Other servers mileage may vary.

 

 

I do plan to write a guardian guide - but would be arrogant to do so before I hit 50. So far I've had most fun and success with focus individually. But as a tank I win more games as the amount they contribute to other players is redonkulously good. if you are a guardian in ANY spec, you should be spamming challenging call every time its off cooldown. I cry for how many guardians I see with zero guarding points. It costs u nothing and helps a lot.

 

Rant over. Sorry for text critting! I'm at work, and its a slow day.

 

Abuse welcome.

 

 

Guardian=Warrior in every aspect ... i am lvl 50 with full pvp gear and even my lord scourge is half full champion gear (yes i know some don t even have half of it on their toon ^^)

I played warrior in wow and that s why i picked guardian . I m happy about it . I m having fun . And it feels just like wow every spell is the same even the cooldowns !

[vrgadin]

Noone knows how to play them!

 

Honestly, I have to count myself as one of the more successful guardians here, because all this forum seems to be is complaints about how weak they are. I'm not a regular or avid MMO player, I'm only lvl 36 and consistently (and I mean 90% of the time) come first or second in both damage and guarding, every single match.

 

I have a theory as to why - so many people have been playing WoW for so long, they think this game is/should be the same. If I see people compare guardians to Arms/Prot warrior one more time, I may just light someone on fire.

 

Take this post I picked out from the forums from an mmarsh - (sorry to pick on you)

 

 

 

 

Wow where to start - how about the most obvious mistake "Some of our abilities are useless in PVP (like Master Strike)"

 

Master strike is just about my MOST used skill in PVP, I use it EVERY time its off cooldown, and it's REMARKABLY easy to pull off, at least the first two hits, and very often all three. The damage this puts out is amazing. Generally, 1v1 if I get off all three hits, I already know I've won the fight.

 

"the DPS is terrible" - no its not, focus and vigi guardian dps is better then sentinel or very close, depending on how much attention you are paying.

 

Next - "we have no CC until far too late" Not sure what you mean - if you mean late as in class developement, then yes, everyone knows guardians have problems before lvl 30. Post lvl 30, we have more on demand, reliable CC then any other class - it's even more ridiculously good for defense specs. Stasis is AMAZING - it activates quickly, which means not only does it interupt, but can be use for fun things, like stoping sith warriors in mid air when they leap, depriving them of opening focus. Not to mention hilt strike and force push.

 

"we are constantly CC'ed" - its true, we only have Resolute, its on a longish cooldown. But honestly, I survive 1v1 cc easy, 2v1 can be survived by activating blader barrier, and 3v1 i dont expect to survive long anyway unless tank spec. This is fine.

 

"Our better abilities (sunder, blade barrier) have long cooldowns forcing us to rely on spamming vastly inferior ones"

 

Dont agree that those are our better abilities. Sunder/leap/blade throw/stasis is all the focus gen u need, strike isnt on my hotbar, neither is slash. important abilites are force sweep for focus (AMAZING OMG LOVE IT), overhead slash/plasma brand for vigi and hilt strike/guardian slash for tank.

 

"it takes a long time to generate focus." - No it doesnt. Guardian abilites are very cheap. Use combat focus more, i am guilty of neglecting it as well. Even without it, I rarely run out of focus. Vigi is more focus hungry then the focus tree fyi.

 

"(REBUKE) is a Sentinel skill, I don't understand why as Defense is supposed to be the Guardians job"

 

One skill does not make a class. Guardians tank very well in pvp, we have more more gimmicks then sentinels who have rebuke. Whats more, soresu can be fit into ANY guardian build (very well idd with focus) for very little talent points, as all the essential stuff is bottom tree 10. Even without soresu, guardians have enuff survivability in dps spec...except maybe focus, focus is more of an all-in/all-out.

 

I have not played sentinel, so I cant comment on thier superiority, all I know is I find sith marauders very very easy to kill in PVP. Sorcs are harder as they do way too much internal/ele dmg which guardians seem poor to defend. Ranged classes seem to have no chance against me.

 

Seriously, your comment that guardians need re-tooling says to me you are losing and you want to win, rather then that you've looked at the class and came to a considered conclusion. If you want to discuss class balance, never discuss your own experiences - look at leaderboard after pvp matchs and see who is consistently on top. I've found it fairly even, mostly leaning toward Jedi type melees. Other servers mileage may vary.

 

 

I do plan to write a guardian guide - but would be arrogant to do so before I hit 50. So far I've had most fun and success with focus individually. But as a tank I win more games as the amount they contribute to other players is redonkulously good. if you are a guardian in ANY spec, you should be spamming challenging call every time its off cooldown. I cry for how many guardians I see with zero guarding points. It costs u nothing and helps a lot.

 

Rant over. Sorry for text critting! I'm at work, and its a slow day.

 

Abuse welcome.

 

compared to the other classes, guardian is at a severe disadvantage and takes waaaaay more skill and patience to do well.

 

no heals, no stealth, one def bubble u need to swing a glowbat to put on urself and a 3 min short one.

 

please stop making posts announcing your liteness. i have a def guardian withn a few in vig and a few in focus and while i can do decently, BHs and Inq are clearly the op easymode class.

[vrgadin]

I have to say that I agree with a poster few posts above this one. I'm lvl 50 and I obtained 3 pieces of champion gear with PvPing and believe me, even though Rep. side loses %80 of the time, I simply dominate the DPS and medals list.

 

I gain defender and protection medals as well because I fire off taunt and AOE taunt whenever they're open. I pop off Master strike and use GRD leap to my allies, I use saber throw and dispatch.....

 

OH.MY.GOD. Dispatch is an instant PvP-win ability! It's almost OP! If someone is %20 of their health and they don't have sorcerer protection on them....

 

Bye bye love, bye bye happiness for them. Dispatch dispatches their backside in oneshot.

 

Result: MVP votes, freakish DPS scores (I began to surpass the 200k mark every match since I got my champ gear), and Empire players that try to gank me while my allies capture/score/plant bomb.

 

Note: I'm Vigilance build and yes, it's a PvE build..... But come PvP, I believe it's one of the most frightening builds out there with its terrifying DPS output and the bonuses it gives to dispatch. Plus, Plasma brand which prevents them from using some of their channels. I may be a tad easy to kill( which means it take 3v1 to kill me), but as I gain playing skills and tactical knowledge, very few Empire players are able to match me.

 

As I understand, Defense built GRDs don't do much DPS as I do, but they gain HUGE Protection scores all around.

 

link ur build, iv never seen a deceent vig build posted i need info as i am a def guardian

[Drakks]

post a picture of you doing this, i post a video on youtube of me eating a whole lemon without sugar.

 

challenge accepted?

 

Shall I go back in time? I'm 50 now, and pvp level 42. I'm not sure what you're wanting here, or if you believe because you can't do it that it's impossible.

 

If you're having trouble, you have my condolences. The guardian has some issues, but it is not even close to the unplayable mess some people are making it out to be.

Edited January 1, 2012 by Drakks

[seraphimm]

I've become used to a Hybrid Vig/Def build for PvE and I find the same build (-accuracy and +Shien Form for 1v1 fights) to be even more rewarding in PvP.

 

I just am not experiencing many of the issues that I am reading on the forums.

 

Is the Guardian uberl33tOPgodmode no, but then every class has problems in one form or another.

 

For instance I never overheat, or run out of ammo!

 

Could we use a couple small buffs, I think so yes, but I just don't see all the doom and gloom

[Dreggzender]

every class has a thread on their message board about how underpowered they are.

every class has a thread on someone else's board about how overpowered they are.

 

are their balance issues? of course, the fact that it's a class-based mmo alone says emphatically that there are balance issues.

 

I certainly hope the biggest ones are found out and fixed and the game becomes as balanced as it can be.

 

but in the meantime I'm going to keep playing and after every warzone think about how i can play better.

 

getting roflstomped every now and then can be a good thing.

[vekkth]

Shall I go back in time? I'm 50 now, and pvp level 42. I'm not sure what you're wanting here, or if you believe because you can't do it that it's impossible.

 

If you're having trouble, you have my condolences. The guardian has some issues, but it is not even close to the unplayable mess some people are making it out to be.

 

The only trouble i have right now is your lies, or, lets say, assumptions. Disability to prove your words and you are still trying to present your arguments as a facts.

 

am i done with you?

[vekkth]

every class has a thread on their message board about how underpowered they are.

every class has a thread on someone else's board about how overpowered they are.

 

are their balance issues? of course, the fact that it's a class-based mmo alone says emphatically that there are balance issues.

 

I certainly hope the biggest ones are found out and fixed and the game becomes as balanced as it can be.

 

but in the meantime I'm going to keep playing and after every warzone think about how i can play better.

 

getting roflstomped every now and then can be a good thing.

 

i've just spent some time studying other classes forums.

here is an example of "OMG MY CLASS SUCKS!!!" thread on the assassin forums.

Threads from Inqusitor forums: mostly they talk about cosmetics or skill/pvp mechanics. zero "MY CLASS SUCKS" threads.

 

Here is a glorious example of "MY CLASS SUCKS" thread on vanguard forums.

 

Didnt find any on Commando, mostly questions about DPS or healing builds for pvp/pve.

 

Could you please help me with other classes? bring these pesky threads to our attention, let us comfort ourselves.

 

and i really suggest you to study the links i provided, especially the first one, on the Assassins forums. For the sheer sake of irony.

[Dreggzender]

i've just spent some time studying other classes forums.

here is an example of "OMG MY CLASS SUCKS!!!" thread on the assassin forums.

Threads from Inqusitor forums: mostly they talk about cosmetics or skill/pvp mechanics. zero "MY CLASS SUCKS" threads.

 

Here is a glorious example of "MY CLASS SUCKS" thread on vanguard forums.

 

Didnt find any on Commando, mostly questions about DPS or healing builds for pvp/pve.

 

Could you please help me with other classes? bring these pesky threads to our attention, let us comfort ourselves.

 

and i really suggest you to study the links i provided, especially the first one, on the Assassins forums. For the sheer sake of irony.

 

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=51325 Juggernaut Tanks suck apparently

[vekkth]

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=51325 Juggernaut Tanks suck apparently

 

wait a second, are you kidding me? right now i am the most confused person on this planet. did you actually said that mirror class of jedi guardian sucks at tanking?

[Drakks]

The only trouble i have right now is your lies, or, lets say, assumptions. Disability to prove your words and you are still trying to present your arguments as a facts.

 

am i done with you?

 

How would you like me to prove this? And, I'm sorry.. because you disagree I'm lying?

 

Be done with me, and I'm sure you're correct -- you're a terrible guardian. My point, and that of many others, is that the reason you're having no luck isn't purely the class.

 

I didn't take screenshots of every win on the way to 50, mostly because I didn't realize it was some act of god allowing it to happen.

Edited January 2, 2012 by Drakks

[Teioh_White]

Lots of threads have pointed out the issues with Jug/Guard. I've been tanking as one 1-50, and now during hard mode, and it does have a lot of issues. Things go much smoother when I just roll a DPS spec (also a bit weak) when the Vanguard is on and let him handle it. You can browse one of the multi page threads, they point out a lot of the issues, and Bioware has acknowledge the class needs a boost. It'll get it, just got to wait.

 

That said, for most things the class isn't unusable, just not optimal, if your groups willing to properly CC and focus target, it's very doable.

[Simoon]

scoreboards in PvP - JK/SW are cannon fodder

people personal experience - at lvl 28 till 35 JK/SW are ridiculously hard to level solo, compared to other classes

 

some brilliant individuals on forums - WAIT FOLKS YOU ARE JUST BAD!!!! LUL!

 

amazing, dude, i applause you personally. 10 years of MMOing, over 20 years of gaming overall, cybersport level in Starcraft (my teamie and 2vs2 partner won WCG prelimenary russia 2002), hardcore raiding in WoW (top 3 russian guild), glad title and i am 100 percent positive that JK/SW are poorly designed and overall weak compared to other classes (my 14 lvl commando gets more damage, more healing and helps WAY more for the team then my lvl 30 Guardian). She cracks 150k easily, my JG cant get 75k medal guaranteed in every game. And she also heals.

 

I would say just the opposite of what you are trying to imply - in fact, its not the L2P issue of others, its the unexperienced issue of you. You just can not actually play on the level the difference between classes really start to matter. On the overage, "all cats are grey", and you draw your conclusion from that.

 

Way to go.

 

You must be awesome. And as for the commando, i'd expect them to do more damage than a guardian, I have to be within 10m of anything to damage it unless leap is up. At which point the same thing is true. Your commando has a nice 30m range and some rather useful ranged AOE. You want to top the damage dealt stats IN ANY MMO then geta ranged aoe class or ranged dot class and go nuts. Keep switching targets though so you don't draw to much unwanted attention and your set.

 

Of course with your considerable level of l33t you already know this....

[Frippster]

Well with a decent pocket healer in any warzone you are more or less imortal, that's one of the drawbacks of playing "tank" in pvp in any mmo that the developer intends it to be a group game and balance the class after that.

 

I tend to group with good players and by that simple decision i have a fair chance of having fun in pvp zone's IF i solo que to something and actually get a heal from some random healer i try to save/guard him as much as possible but most players just expect to get heals and then when the healer gets zergd and dies they complain off the lacking of heals instead of playing it as a group and guarding the weak/squishy classes as intended...

Edited January 2, 2012 by Frippster

[Dreggzender]

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=51325 Juggernaut Tanks suck apparently

 

Oh ya, forgot I was in a guardian thread already. All the b**** threads start to blur together after a while.

[Finndali]

Should make a new rule here: You are only allowed to come here and write "I love my Guardian, i'm the bestest tank there is!" after you've also tried out Shadow and Vanguard.

Should massively cut down the chaff...

[vekkth]

How would you like me to prove this? And, I'm sorry.. because you disagree I'm lying?

 

Be done with me, and I'm sure you're correct -- you're a terrible guardian. My point, and that of many others, is that the reason you're having no luck isn't purely the class.

 

I didn't take screenshots of every win on the way to 50, mostly because I didn't realize it was some act of god allowing it to happen.

 

Your point is that you pretend you could do something but can not prove it. And from that you draw a conclusion i am a bad player.

 

Fantastic. Good bye, take care.

[vekkth]

Should make a new rule here: You are only allowed to come here and write "I love my Guardian, i'm the bestest tank there is!" after you've also tried out Shadow and Vanguard.

Should massively cut down the chaff...

]

Amen.

[Drakks]

Your point is that you pretend you could do something but can not prove it. And from that you draw a conclusion i am a bad player.

 

Fantastic. Good bye, take care.

 

No, I cannot prove I did something 20 level ago. Sorry. I didn't think to screenshot it. This does, in no way mean it's false to anyone but you and playesr who apparently are getting stomped on their guardians due to a combination of player skill and probably their level.

 

Do vanguards have it easier? Yes, because they are ranged. End of story. Do Shadows have it easier? In some instances, yes. They are still beheld to the same limitations of a melee though, because THEY ARE MELEE.

 

Guardians play "fine" in every aspect of the word post 30, and are able to tank anything the game currently throws at them in pve -- in pvp, range has an edge over melee, and as defense spec you lack anything pretending to be burst. If we're supposed to have burst as a tank remains to be seen -- 1v1 I've never had an issue against an Assassin tank (our Shadow counterpart) build, even with their strong opening hit. They can't sustain the damage, so it's a wash.

 

The problem you keep babbling about is that guardians are bad. Then guardians are bad compared to vanguards. Define bad? We tank fine, but in pvp we do less damage becase melee requires position ranged does not. I've busted 300k damage on my guardian before (mind you, as Vig spec running in Soresu, with a pocket healer) -- but this doesn't address any guardian issue, because what is actually broken is the upper shield tree and the fact it offers nothing of real value to a tank that you cannot get from the Vig tree itself (which, oddly, also provides more damage).

 

If you find another class to be easier, then go play it -- the biggest difference I see at 50 is that vanguards/BHs get their mortar-shot ability that wipes out packs of crap mobs, and we don't have that AE hit, which would admitedly be very helpful.

 

I even two shot our class quest with a droid I hadn't busted out since I was lvl 14 -- I'm not, nor have I, found the class to be as lacking as people like you keep trying to convince me is. Does it need some work? Sure. Is it playable and competitive currently? Yes, it is.

[Drakks]

Should make a new rule here: You are only allowed to come here and write "I love my Guardian, i'm the bestest tank there is!" after you've also tried out Shadow and Vanguard.

Should massively cut down the chaff...

 

This silly mutual exclusivity isn't helping out.

 

I cannot find anyone saying "I'm the bestest tank there is" in any post. Odd, that. BUT, what I can find, is endless amount of whining that we aren't as good as X, or as worse than Y, without ANY reasons listed.

 

Guardians can currently tank anything in the game -- better or worse than another class? I'm not sure how you can quantify this with no damage logs to show anything. I'm tanking hardmodes just fine now, and I've yet to have someone in my group say how badly they wish I was a different tank class.

 

I'm going to guess you and that other guy who are constantly bad mouthing the class aren't 50 -- because I'm failing to see how you guys could be so negative once there.

[vekkth]

No, I cannot prove I did something 20 level ago. Sorry.

 

Apology accepted. Good bye.

[Stigas]

This is what happens when the most popular MMO sets a bar so low that everyone can succeed.