Exaggeration fail. I pretty highly doubt that 90% of guards/Juggs are even at level 50 yet. Also please tell me how "scaling" makes u worse from 36 to 50 in a level boosted arena? So far as I'm aware, the only difference is avaliable abilities between a lvl 10 and a lvl 50...ergo, what u can do at 36, u could only do better at 50. I admit, I may be mistaken about these mechanics.

Reading further on, people make some good points - mainly 1) That topping dmg doesnt mean you killed a lot of players, its possible that damage was spread around to many. - This is definitely true in WOW (again...sigh) where heals were extreme, dps went on forever, and it wasnt possible to kill someone without enormous burst, double teaming or CC/lockuouts. I dont think its true for TOR... when I jump on a target they are usually dead within 5-7 abilities. Still, I see the point. 2) That guardians dont need to top dps to be meaningful players - a hell yes to this, the dmg red we bring to groups even while dps specced, cannot be denied. It's frelling amazing in fact. 3) I'm sure there was some more. But I want to go play now...

Another person who would rather spam rhetoric then read a post. If I routinely top warzones at lvl 36, I hardly expect to be worse at lvl 50...

Love your sig sonny.

I detect sarcasm as I didn't actually give any advice on how to play - Just that a class doesn't need rebalancing because one person doesn't know how it works. Bioware knows what needs balancing, as they likely track battleground statistics, or at least Blizzard did, so I assume bioware does too.

Yes macro's allow you to play your character more effectively and more effeciently - but have you ever asked yourself why you NEED them? What is the motivation for having them? The problem with macros is twofold: 1. not everyone will use them or consider them "fun" this leads to two tiers of players - one of which has a noticeable advantage over the other for a reason which arguably is not skill-related. 2. Macros streamline tasks making them more effecient - this has the side-effect of narrowing the difference between players that use them. For example, if you have a good player and a bad player and give them 40 buttons to press, the good player may be twice as fast as the bad player. If you do the same but give them 10 buttons, the good player will only be slightly better then the bad player (not simply because the task is easier, but because there is less involved). Players who want macros tend to be the "elite" players who want to maximise there play and be the very best of the best - and this is so stupid because macros dont help the top end players, they help the lower end! In early WoW, it was possible for a single player to be dominantly good, to really show how great he was - this I truly do believe wasnt a matter of class balance, but rather difficulty of play and skill - it was harder to be good, and so if you were good, it showed. Later on after the expansions, when classes were simplified, and everyone used macros, even the very best players were only marginally better then the average. For the sake of competitive PVP - say NO to macros!

Noone knows how to play them! Honestly, I have to count myself as one of the more successful guardians here, because all this forum seems to be is complaints about how weak they are. I'm not a regular or avid MMO player, I'm only lvl 36 and consistently (and I mean 90% of the time) come first or second in both damage and guarding, every single match. I have a theory as to why - so many people have been playing WoW for so long, they think this game is/should be the same. If I see people compare guardians to Arms/Prot warrior one more time, I may just light someone on fire. Take this post I picked out from the forums from an mmarsh - (sorry to pick on you) Wow where to start - how about the most obvious mistake "Some of our abilities are useless in PVP (like Master Strike)" Master strike is just about my MOST used skill in PVP, I use it EVERY time its off cooldown, and it's REMARKABLY easy to pull off, at least the first two hits, and very often all three. The damage this puts out is amazing. Generally, 1v1 if I get off all three hits, I already know I've won the fight. "the DPS is terrible" - no its not, focus and vigi guardian dps is better then sentinel or very close, depending on how much attention you are paying. Next - "we have no CC until far too late" Not sure what you mean - if you mean late as in class developement, then yes, everyone knows guardians have problems before lvl 30. Post lvl 30, we have more on demand, reliable CC then any other class - it's even more ridiculously good for defense specs. Stasis is AMAZING - it activates quickly, which means not only does it interupt, but can be use for fun things, like stoping sith warriors in mid air when they leap, depriving them of opening focus. Not to mention hilt strike and force push. "we are constantly CC'ed" - its true, we only have Resolute, its on a longish cooldown. But honestly, I survive 1v1 cc easy, 2v1 can be survived by activating blader barrier, and 3v1 i dont expect to survive long anyway unless tank spec. This is fine. "Our better abilities (sunder, blade barrier) have long cooldowns forcing us to rely on spamming vastly inferior ones" Dont agree that those are our better abilities. Sunder/leap/blade throw/stasis is all the focus gen u need, strike isnt on my hotbar, neither is slash. important abilites are force sweep for focus (AMAZING OMG LOVE IT), overhead slash/plasma brand for vigi and hilt strike/guardian slash for tank. "it takes a long time to generate focus." - No it doesnt. Guardian abilites are very cheap. Use combat focus more, i am guilty of neglecting it as well. Even without it, I rarely run out of focus. Vigi is more focus hungry then the focus tree fyi. "(REBUKE) is a Sentinel skill, I don't understand why as Defense is supposed to be the Guardians job" One skill does not make a class. Guardians tank very well in pvp, we have more more gimmicks then sentinels who have rebuke. Whats more, soresu can be fit into ANY guardian build (very well idd with focus) for very little talent points, as all the essential stuff is bottom tree 10. Even without soresu, guardians have enuff survivability in dps spec...except maybe focus, focus is more of an all-in/all-out. I have not played sentinel, so I cant comment on thier superiority, all I know is I find sith marauders very very easy to kill in PVP. Sorcs are harder as they do way too much internal/ele dmg which guardians seem poor to defend. Ranged classes seem to have no chance against me. Seriously, your comment that guardians need re-tooling says to me you are losing and you want to win, rather then that you've looked at the class and came to a considered conclusion. If you want to discuss class balance, never discuss your own experiences - look at leaderboard after pvp matchs and see who is consistently on top. I've found it fairly even, mostly leaning toward Jedi type melees. Other servers mileage may vary. I do plan to write a guardian guide - but would be arrogant to do so before I hit 50. So far I've had most fun and success with focus individually. But as a tank I win more games as the amount they contribute to other players is redonkulously good. if you are a guardian in ANY spec, you should be spamming challenging call every time its off cooldown. I cry for how many guardians I see with zero guarding points. It costs u nothing and helps a lot. Rant over. Sorry for text critting! I'm at work, and its a slow day. Abuse welcome.