The problem with Guardian is...

[Drakks]

Apology accepted. Good bye.

 

Are you under the impression that ignoring everything else somehow makes your point, and anyone but you thinks your last post is anything but throwing in the towel?

 

You're bad at playing, and not enjoying your guardian. I get that. Why begrude those that are enjoying it, and doing fine? Can I ask you what on earth i'd have to gain by lying, and playing a class that was as bad as you say?

[Pwnzie]

I mostly play it because I like melee classes, always played one and will always play a melee, and also cause I like the challenge it gives. Anyhow skill can overcome much, but can go only so far.

 

I wont go into the whole damage logs or what the other classes have or are better at and why some of what they have would be essential to a melee class like Guardians... cause it's been said so many times in so many threads, if you still dont get it, you people never will.

 

But I'll give an anecdote, just for fun: today met a BH, I was about to kill him (he started ofc, who doesnt target a Guardian nowadays?) then he started kiting; what exhilarated me is that he was literally running faster than me leaving me behind because apparently they have a talent which increases running speed by 15%, so, heres this guy, a hard hitter ranged in heavy armor running faster than me! I almost did not hit the Freezing Force button for the laughing.

[Rancorzealot]

If you hate Guardian you need a brain transplant! It's fun, tanky and a nice amount of DPS. What more can you ask for? If you think your going to nuke down a target in 5 seconds, this class isn't for you. You get into the fight, pound your way through with lots of CC capability and come out swinging because you can take a beating and still distribute out the damage. If your having problems, or hate being a Guardian, most likely your not 50 with good PvP gear. Edited January 3, 2012 by Rancorzealot

[Zarthorn]

As silly as it sounds, I think they made the Guardian difficult on purpose for it's initial levels and pretty slow going up to the late 30's to make sure only players that really wanted to play the class play it.

 

I've been taking my time to level the class, learning all the stuff I may have missed in beta, constantly resetting my skill tree to try something else and generally enjoying it, made it to 41 so far....

 

And once you get to 40+ you will never look back as if by magic, your Guardian becomes a beast!

 

Elites? No problem

 

Champs? Some can be soloed (with doc ofc and as long as they don't have a frenzy mode)

 

Flashpoints? Tanking em

 

PvP? Imps must be screaming a lot of why won't you just die like everyone else??

 

Heroics? No problem with Doc.

 

It's a long arduous journey, but totally worth the wait when you finally see your Guardian blossom!

[Kolbenito]

As silly as it sounds, I think they made the Guardian difficult on purpose for it's initial levels and pretty slow going up to the late 30's to make sure only players that really wanted to play the class play it.

 

I've been taking my time to level the class, learning all the stuff I may have missed in beta, constantly resetting my skill tree to try something else and generally enjoying it, made it to 41 so far....

 

And once you get to 40+ you will never look back as if by magic, your Guardian becomes a beast!

 

Elites? No problem

 

Champs? Some can be soloed (with doc ofc and as long as they don't have a frenzy mode)

 

Flashpoints? Tanking em

 

PvP? Imps must be screaming a lot of why won't you just die like everyone else??

 

Heroics? No problem with Doc.

 

It's a long arduous journey, but totally worth the wait when you finally see your Guardian blossom!

 

BH/Trooper just gets all of this from level 8 or so. The hardest quests I have done so far have all been on my Jugg/Guardian, it does say something for the class though that with a little creative thinking and effort I was able to do them anyway.

[Iamcodex]

Guardians are late bloomers like early to mid 30s late. You're a bit more gear dependent than the other classes I feel, and you have to really get used to the class before it makes sense to you.

 

I've played both a kinetic combat shadow (in Beta) and a vanguard (for a bit in Early Access). While the shadow is much less gear dependent and the vanguard's AoE threat is amazing, I love my guardian so much, and I have to agree with the OP to an extent. The Guardian requires some finesse when picking up AoE groups, and I just absolutely love force pushing mobs into position, saber throwing to trash outside the main pack, and leaping from group to group. It looks amazing, and it's fun. On single target threat, people can't rip off of me. It's a pleasant change from the recent forms of paladin and warrior tanking in WoW.

 

In PVP, I tear people apart and how resilient I am is just impressive. At level 40, I was taking on 2 to 3 non-50s without much issue and a pretty PVP geared out Bounty Hunter almost died and had major issues killing me through my cooldowns and CC.

 

Overall, I feel like the class has a bit of a learning curve, takes some time to get used to, and makes you level it up a bit before it becomes pretty awesome. Once you hit 36, you'll have basically all your major tanking abilities and feel pretty substantial as a tank if you've been taking the time to learn to play your class.

 

And, yes, by the way, I felt the same way that many of you felt that the class sucked and it was a horrible balance issue. I learned to play it, and I feel like it's just a different tanking style than the other two now that takes a lot more getting used to. The Shadow and Vanguard tanks are a lot more intuitive, but the Guardian is just so much fun that I can't give it up regardless of there being easier tank options. I've also heard from a few friends that guardians are amazing endgame tanks, so I'm a bit hesitant to believe many of the complaints.

 

There's plenty of Guardian resources out there that will really help any of you struggling with the class and will definitely convince you that they're not awful, broken tanks.

Edited January 3, 2012 by Iamcodex

[degeso]

Guardian right now ... preety weak

 

I play my Guardian again when he gets a update

[Alterin]

the real problem with Jedi Guardian's is the horribly ugly very non-jedi armor.

[Darekar]

the real problem with Jedi Guardian's is the horribly ugly very non-jedi armor.

 

once you hit lvl 50, check out jedi battlelord set (orange gear) they have the look of the jedi guardian in the cinematic, i got the glove, chest, legs and boots and its pretty awesome

[VoidJustice]

scoreboards in PvP - JK/SW are cannon fodder

people personal experience - at lvl 28 till 35 JK/SW are ridiculously hard to level solo, compared to other classes

 

some brilliant individuals on forums - WAIT FOLKS YOU ARE JUST BAD!!!! LUL!

 

amazing, dude, i applause you personally. 10 years of MMOing, over 20 years of gaming overall, cybersport level in Starcraft (my teamie and 2vs2 partner won WCG prelimenary russia 2002), hardcore raiding in WoW (top 3 russian guild), glad title and i am 100 percent positive that JK/SW are poorly designed and overall weak compared to other classes (my 14 lvl commando gets more damage, more healing and helps WAY more for the team then my lvl 30 Guardian). She cracks 150k easily, my JG cant get 75k medal guaranteed in every game. And she also heals.

 

I would say just the opposite of what you are trying to imply - in fact, its not the L2P issue of others, its the unexperienced issue of you. You just can not actually play on the level the difference between classes really start to matter. On the overage, "all cats are grey", and you draw your conclusion from that.

 

Way to go.

 

/agreed

 

bottom line, if you think JG is fine... go level a inquisitor, councelor, trooper or smuggler. The balance is not even close in PVP or PVE.

 

Also... the devs have already said we need a rebalance. Remember just because you beat some scrub, doesn't mean the class is balanced.

Edited January 3, 2012 by VoidJustice

[sippelmc]

once you hit lvl 50, check out jedi battlelord set (orange gear) they have the look of the jedi guardian in the cinematic, i got the glove, chest, legs and boots and its pretty awesome

 

Where do you get the set? Thanks!

[DarkRegent]

I can’t imagine that the developers all sat around a table and decided that these classes were going to be “hard to play” and the rest were going to be easy. Like any other statistical outcome, the difficulty of the Guardian is just now coming to light through its operation rather than standing out in a spread sheet. And of course that is because spread sheets can’t account for players and their usage of the skills and abilities of the class.

 

Learn to play? Possibly, but I don’t think what we are hearing is an estimation of the class itself but the class in relation to other classes. Like it or not, the Guardian is not a class in a void but it does operate beside other classes and the idea that the game should offer one style of play for some classes and another, much different style, to other classes is not the one advertised.

 

And I think that is the definition everyone is struggling over. What is balance? Should the various classes offer roughly analogous game play or should some of them offer a very different, some would say more challenging, style. If I wanted to be a true sophist I could say that some of you want balanced classes and some of you do not.

 

Whether that all points to a persistent vein of elitist self aggrandizement in some is beside the point; I believe that Guardian may offer a significantly different play experience to other classes. I don’t think that was intended. I think it is much more likely that number simply worked out to this effect upon use and if that is the case then certainly the devs will tweak things slightly to account for the perceived imbalance.

 

I rather feel for them though. Doubtless their forecasted numbers showed the Guardian just as described “within [a percentage] of the dps of all classes”. And to address the demand of the actual playerbase they are going to have to leave the clean confines of their well tended calculations.

 

But that’s what happens when you let people play your game.

[HeeroCas]

Okay, so if others have it so easily, and if SWG was the one unbalanced and not here and not the Guardian, then someone explain this to me: I have a Guardian, I totally love playing as him and sometimes it goes really well, but why is it then, that NPC enemies even 2 to almost 5 lvl's lower than me can still kick my characters behind like he's nothing? With a companion and a tech tree for as far as I can get it now, with a lvl 26 Guardian against someone of lvl 24 for example, with my companion fighting alongside me, and I'm dead within even a minute, while I'm using all the skills I can and even a stim.

[Kolbenito]

On gear dependence

 

We don't really know that Guardians/Juggernaut are more "Gear Dependent" than other classes. What exactly makes a class "gear dependent"? There is no auto attack, so it can't be rage income.

 

It is far more likely that purple gear does as much for any other class as it does for a Guardian/Juggernaut. Sometimes the difference between a purple item and a green is not more than a couple of strength and endurance, even if you are talking several pieces it is often less than a single stim pack would give you.

 

So what you are saying is that Guardians/Juggernauts are balanced on the knife edge of having the best gear or not being the difference between success and failure for LEVELING CONTENT.

 

I call ********.

 

I like the class too, and there is nothing wrong with talking about the positives. Let's not start a bunch of "myths" about the class that will persist for years while having no truth to them.

[Helig]

once you hit lvl 50, check out jedi battlelord set (orange gear) they have the look of the jedi guardian in the cinematic, i got the glove, chest, legs and boots and its pretty awesome

 

To hell with the green robocop suit. I wore the moddable classic dark brown robe from some Coruscant quest till I got a decent endgame chestpiece.

 

I kind of miss that robe. Made me look like a Jedi. Not a time cop, or power ranger.

Edited January 4, 2012 by Helig

[Arclight]

To hell with the green robocop suit. I wore the moddable classic dark brown robe from some Coruscant quest till I got an decent endgame chestpiece.

 

I kind of miss that robe. Made me look like a Jedi. Not a time cop, or power ranger.

 

Amen on that. Guardian PvP gear is so far from the "Iconic" look or the look from the progression videos as you can get. Just Terrible. (But that's off topic soooo.......)

 

 

I even two shot our class quest with a droid I hadn't busted out since I was lvl 14 -- I'm not, nor have I, found the class to be as lacking as people like you keep trying to convince me is. Does it need some work? Sure. Is it playable and competitive currently? Yes, it is.

 

You do realize that the only reason you two shot him was due to a known bug, right?

You make some valid points, but when you use that as an example of "we're fine!" then you lose a lot of credibility.

 

Guardian needs some love, if anyone thinks otherwise, they are just trying really hard to be a *******. Or they have yet to play another class to a reasonable level.

 

- Is it broken? Nope

- Is it fun? For me? Damn skippy.

- Are we viable? Yep

- Do we need some work? No question

- Do we have to work harder to achieve the same results as another class? Absolutly

- Do we need a total revamp or just some tweaks? Tweaks

- Does posting screenshots from people's WarZones results in their 20's matter? Hell no. (You do realize your damage is bolstered, right? So using those number for or against a "viability" argument is pointless)

- What do we really need? IMO, we either need to be able to do more damage once we're in melee range. OR, keep the damage the same, but be better able to keep someone in melee range once we're there. Add in the ability to Guard in any stance and I'd be a happy Jedi.

 

I always get a good laugh out of the "Everything SUCKS!!11" crowd as well as the "WE ARE TEH AWESOME!!! L2P!!!111" people that jump in after.

 

People stick to their PoV regardless of anything else because of what they see and what they expect. Perception is reality. Neither is entirely right, or wrong. Yet it becomes more important to be right, or to win than to actually talk about how we can make the class better than what it is.

 

Which is usually why I ignore threads like this one....

Edited January 4, 2012 by Arclight

[Drakks]

You do realize that the only reason you two shot him was due to a known bug, right?

You make some valid points, but when you use that as an example of "we're fine!" then you lose a lot of credibility.

 

Did I mention I did it while tanking the elite at the end of the hall because I'm an idiot and ran right into him while panning to look behind me and get off a saber throw?

 

I think, at 50, the class is solid in and of itself. The fatal flaw is ranged damage -- it's going to be higher either because of some unseen modifier, or because it's just easier to apply. I agree with your premise, however, but find the "challenge" of the guardian part of the appeal.

 

I think two things need to occur -- ranged damage needs an overall reduction (however they want to do it: reduce the damage modifier, increase base ranged defenses, etc etc), and guardians need a higher modifier on their threat generation in soresu.

 

Well, and I also wouldn't complain about some passive damn KB resistance given that everything knocks us back and that means nothing to ranged.

[Helig]

As I keep trying out new builds, I'm reaffirming my faith that people who insist on complaining and grossly exaggerating class issues are either playing the wrong build that looks omigoshomigosh awesome on paper (yes, I'm looking at you, Commanding Awe\Warding Call+Blade Barricade hybrid), or haven't gotten their rotations straight.

 

My problem with the Vigilance tank build is that its rotation was extremely disproportional regarding Focus gain\loss, and lacked the harmony and the intricacy of Defense rotations. It *looked* like I was doing more damage, due to frequent Overhead Slash big numbers, but I had less opportunities (and less incentive) to use Blade Storm on cooldown. You also lacked your situational skills like Hilt Strike and instant Stasis that fit into Defense rotations flawlessly.

 

The latest build I'm testing is full Defense+Perseverence\Accuracy (might try Defiance for PvP), and it's smooth. Really smooth. Skills click into your symphony of pwn almost perfectly. A lot of people underestimate Guardian Slash, but it *is* a solid skill. Is it worth losing Unremitting over, especially in PvP? I'm not really sure about that, but it all depends on the situation. The trick to Guardian PvP seems to be relying on Charge as little as you can - so that you always have it available when you truly need it, so Unremitting has lower uptime than it has on paper. But once again, I need to test both builds thoroughly in both, chaotic and organized PvP.

 

Granted, I don't have any other tanks at 50 yet (working on a Powertech), but from I can tell, I'm not far behind, damage-wise. If I'm "behind" at all. Well, except for AoE, of course. My Sawbones healer might have higher burst, but DPS-wise, I'd say she's behind my Guardian tank in overall damage output. It's all in the smooth rotation.

 

The class has its problems, sure. But they aren't worth rerolling over. I love my Guardian, even if it was a pile of misery for nearly 40 levels of gameplay. At 50, he is awesome.

Edited January 5, 2012 by Helig

[alcarechteon]

I'm having quite a good time with my full Defense Jedi Guardian! Not exactly a master of massacre in PvE but since I've added Doc to my crew I'm taking down mobs like flies without even breaking a sweat.

But what about PvP? Ok, not my favourite part of the game, but sometimes even I like to smash some Imperial backsides. And I can't really complain with that, despite my evident lack of skill.

Crappy but happy if it wasn't for one thing: the Resolute skill cooldown time!

90 seconds it's an eternity in PvP!!! And it's the Knight's one and only chance to break free in a world full of Crowd Controllers! Poor, poor Jedi!

I'm still working hard to explain my Guardian there is no death, there is only the Force, but how am I supposed to do that if he goes down like 5 times before the skill resets?

Help me developers! You're my only hope...