New Augments

[Devin_Ellenwood]

Okay, so an update I can completely ignore. Screw giving us the ability to paint our ships or the walls of our strongholds, screw more and better dye combos, screw new strongholds in places like on Hoth or a floating asteroid, and screw getting new equipment or pets that fight. No, we need new augmentations and a crappy racing game.

[OlBuzzard]

You are 99.99% right with BioWare and changes once they announce something like this.

 

I 100% expect this to go live as they’ve announced it. They may tweak the numbers of drops or win/loss requirement for group ranked, but if they do it will be minor.

 

Everyone should expect this to go live. Nothing we say will matter. We could all unsub and they’d still do it because that’s how BioWare works. They launch something and wait for data to come in. Then they act if the data doesn’t fit their modelling. Problem is, it’s usually too late by then. Which is why we have so few players.

 

Assimilation will proceed.

 

Resistance is futile.

[Toraak]

Assimilation will proceed.

 

Resistance is futile.

 

haha. I agree they won't change this horrible idea, and it will go live. Still won't change my mind on it tho, and I'll just ignore the fact these Augments exist until BW does change it. Nothing could possibly make me try Team ranked PvP again. I hate it the 1st time I did it during preseason when they came out with the mats to make the 258 MH/OH for Solo ranked.

Edited September 21, 2020 by Toraak

[Sattee]

Absolutely terrible idea. Who came up with this gawd awful terrible mess?

[Savej]

If you're going to "force us" to play ranked, please do something to make the classes more equal? In general, some classes with certain gear arrangements are objectively much better than others (I can back that up with some detail if needed). And right now melee dps is not fun. Balance has historically been occasionally worse, but 5.0 was much better in this regard. And cc (the part where some players lose control of their characters) has never been a bigger problem. As it is I've all but stopped pvping in this game in general and this is the first time I've stopped pvping here since launch; I've been thinking about starting up again but not with any of my favorite classes (gunslinger looks good, dps-guardian/sentinel does not).

[Phazonfreak]

Well, there you have it. This is what you get for complaining that PvP does not have any worthwhile gearing progression and that you are forced to do PvE to get endgame gear. Now everyone gets forced in equal measure to do PvP.

 

I know most people will try to blame it solely on BioWare, but this one is on the PvP community just the same. Have fun with your matches filled with players who only care about the materials and nothing else. You deserve it.

Edited September 21, 2020 by Phazonfreak

[Savej]

Well, there you have it. This is what you get for complaining that PvP does not have any worthwhile gearing progression and that you are forced to do PvE to get endgame gear. Now everyone gets forced in equal measure to do PvP.

 

I know most people will try to blame it solely on BioWare, but this one is on the PvP community just the same. Have fun with your matches filled with players who only care about the materials and nothing else. You deserve it.

 

Personally, I care about PVP. Most of my "played" time (almost a year), has been spent doing pvp. I would love a good excuse to get back into it. But 6.0's pvp needs an overhaul to be fun from my pov.

[LeMage]

More to the point. What year, 2021, 2022, or later.

 

Why did you stop at 2022? You know something? Or is that when your patience wears out?

[Tsillah]

Sadly the credit selling route is the cheapest and most reliable conversion from cash to credits. Even though you run the risk of being banned or having your identity stolen from dodgy sites, people will still take the risk.

 

If Bioware really want to get rid of the credit sellers, they would offer a way to convert cash to credits more reliably.

 

A good way to do that and also a good credit sink, is they could offer a “sub for credits” token like Blizzard does for WoW. Buy the credit tokens for $15-$20 (not cartel coins) and let people sell them on the GTN. People with lots of credits would buy them to pay for their subs. People buying the tokens to sell on the GTN would be getting lots of credits and BioWare would use their 8% GTN tax as a credit sink, make more money than now and cut out / get rid of third party credit sellers.

 

 

Not sure about that idea. Let's say the token costs 15 bucks. And on the GTN it costs 100M. Then there are credit sellers who sell credits at 1 buck for 10M credits. Then you can buy your sub for 10 bucks from somebody who paid 15 for it....so what would be your solution for that scenario?

[DawnAskham]

Not sure about that idea. Let's say the token costs 15 bucks. And on the GTN it costs 100M. Then there are credit sellers who sell credits at 1 buck for 10M credits. Then you can buy your sub for 10 bucks from somebody who paid 15 for it....so what would be your solution for that scenario?

 

IMO the token in WoW works for three reasons, and while I think something similar might improve the economy here, I agree that by itself it would not solve some the big issues we have in SWTOR.

 

First, Blizzard makes it very simple and easy (and risk free) to buy tokens to obtain gold (and since WoW is sub only, most everyone already has payment information on file with Blizzard), so seeking out an alternative source would require players to jump through more hoops and take risks.

 

Second, Blizzard has done a better job of managing their economy, from balancing inflows and sinks to dealing with bots and old sellers, not to mention I cannot recall a single economic exploit in WoW of the types and magnitudes we've seen in SWTOR over the years.

 

Third, WoW isn't nearly as reliant upon cash shop revenue the way SWTOR is, and while there are some mounts and pets in WoW's store (sold direct for real money), but they don't have gimmicks like a secondary story currency, no gamble boxes, and most cosmetic items are obtained ONLY by playing the game.

Edited September 21, 2020 by DawnAskham

[Tsillah]

IMO the token in WoW works for three reasons, and while I think something similar might improve the economy here, I agree that by itself it would not solve some the big issues we have in SWTOR.

 

First, Blizzard makes it very simple and easy (and risk free) to buy tokens to obtain gold (and since WoW is sub only, most everyone already has payment information on file with Blizzard), so seeking out an alternative source would require players to jump through more hoops and take risks.

 

Second, Blizzard has done a better job of managing their economy, from balancing inflows and sinks to dealing with bots and old sellers, not to mention I cannot recall a single economic exploit in WoW of the types and magnitudes we've seen in SWTOR over the years.

 

Third, WoW isn't nearly as reliant upon cash shop revenue the way SWTOR is, and while there are some mounts and pets in WoW's store (sold direct for real money), but they don't have gimmicks like a secondary story currency, no gamble boxes, and most cosmetic items are obtained ONLY by playing the game.

 

I think you hit the nail on the head when you say WoW is sub only and isn't reliant on the cash shop.

 

F2P, as much as I appreciate F2P/preferred players, is an open playground for credit sellers and BW doesn't have an answer for that. It didn't use to be as bad as it is today, however, and the importance of credits in the game and how they are sourced reliably by doing dailies/heroics are a combination that you just can't control.

 

That's why it irks me that BioWare put the fault with players in their recent commentary. They set it so that people need more credits and make the legal ways of making credits take a long time or a lot of money. That is on them and unless a lot of people ignore this new tier of augments, it's going to get worse afaic.

[unclemitch]

Yep, gonna let my sub run out for sure now. Gear grind in areas of the game mostly hated.

[Darthanimus]

So mad at this, I have only just finished gearing up my 10 mains with BiS augs etc.

 

The issue is this.

 

By making these materials available to ranked, and mastermode ops you are excluding a large proportion of the player base. However the players that do participate in the most difficult endgame activities have a huge advantage over everyone else once they are geared.

 

I hate ranked; its a cesspit of the worse types of players. You have not succeed in cleaning up ranked enough to make the majority of player want to participate. They use discord, queue sync, play at quiet times with friends, wintrade plus more, making this activity intolerable. I love pvp but hate ranked, why should I be penalized for my in game preferences. Please stop trying to get people to play ranked, its designed for only a few specs to excel in, even if everyone didn't cheat.

 

I think I will cancel my sub and play something else.

Edited September 21, 2020 by Darthanimus

[Tsillah]

By making these materials available to ranked, and mastermode ops you are excluding a large proportion of the player base. However the players that do participate in the most difficult endgame activities have a huge advantage over everyone else once they are geared.

Well it's not a huge advantage and you don't need it unless you play ranked. Even NiM players don't need it cause it can be beaten with current gear.

 

In any other content the new augments will not add much at all. More endurance and power only really helps in Dxun and the Meridian FP. In all the content below 75 there is a cap on endurance, mastery and power. And since you already hit that cap without augments it makes no difference.

 

The tertiary stats like alacrity, crit, shield, etc. add about 308 points to the total. For a healer this means they can add a total of 1.3% crit because they tend to have a lot in alacrity to get that 1.3 gcd. For DPS it will be less cause they already have more points in crit and so that means they get hit a bit harder by diminishing returns.

 

So it's not a huge advantage and it's not relevant for 95% of the game's content. It only really makes a small difference in the harder ops and in warzones.

 

The issue for me is that people just want to gear their toons as they have now and suddenly there is this tier of gear that is just meant for the hardest content. That seems a bit odd in the current set up that democratized BiS gear with 6.0. And the worst of it is that crafting these augments requires mats from both NiM ops and Ranked warzones. Very few people play both.

[KendraP]

If they aren't needed, why add them? Its just stupid to add more gear in a game where practically all content, including at harder difficulty modes, is downscaled out of dev laziness or incompetence.

 

I can't see the numbers obviously, but I'd bet a relatively small number of people do NiM OR granked; the overlap in those is probably practically negligible.

 

Which is ostensibly the point - to encourage people to play those otherwise neglected modes.

 

The rather obvious elephant in that room is that they aren't addressing why no one is doing those modes. And then, they explicitly mention "a robust trading economy that rewards those who make these scarce materials available either via the Galactic Trade Network or simply trade chat."

 

The credit sink argument has already been mentioned. Allow me to take this one step further, however. Certainly, a certain element will be spending absurd amount of credits purchasing mats or the completed augments themselves. Doing so will, in BWs own words, reward "those making these scare materials avaliable."

 

To walk you to the conclusion, this rewards a virtually negligible population (the overlap between granked and NiM), depending on costs helps or slightly hurts a small population (granked OR NiM), and hurts everyone else who wants them (i.e. oh you don't want to do regs PvP and be at a even hypothetical disadvantage? Hope you have billions lying around!).

 

I find it rather ridiculous BW designs a game that otherwise caters to players who come and go every few months, then promotes a negligible population, and whos left in the dark again? Yet another middle finger to those of us who aren't too new to not care about BiS, but don't have the time or desire to do NiM or granked.

 

TLDR: these are an obvious and cowardly attempt on BWs part to reward a negligible portion of the player base while giving the most loyal among us a giant middle finger.

Edited September 21, 2020 by KendraP

[Darthanimus]

So it's not a huge advantage and it's not relevant for 95% of the game's content. It only really makes a small difference in the harder ops and in warzones.

 

Seriously? You sound like you have never never stepped in a wz ever!

[xordevoreaux]

TLDR: these are an obvious and cowardly attempt on BWs part to reward a negligible portion of the player base while giving the most loyal among us a giant middle finger.

 

I"m not defending EA on this, but their attempt to address the years-long kvetching that PvP is underserved in this game merely wound up serving up more ill will among players, and you're right, this move by EA on the i300 augs really is only a PvP concern.

 

There's nothing in the SWTOR PvE world, even the Dxun Hardmode, that demands players equip these i300 augs. Proof positive, people complete HM Duxn just fine without them.

 

So, this whole distasteful schmoo could have been rolled out the player base as simply "here is a PvP thingy that will remain wholly within PvP, only concern PvP players, and the materials to make these PvP augs can only be obtained via PvP participation."

 

That would have pretty much done it. The PvE types would have said "meh, so that doesn't concern me," and move on.

 

EA should simply have said hello folks, we're just stroking the PvP egos here, if you're PvE, nothing to see here, move along.

 

And we would have, because everyone would have done the quick math and said yeah, you're right, let's move on, this is a goat screw.

Edited September 21, 2020 by xordevoreaux

[casirabit]

Seriously? You sound like you have never never stepped in a wz ever!

 

Well as shocking as this may come to you there are people that do not like pvp.

[xordevoreaux]

Seriously? You sound like you have never never stepped in a wz ever!

 

And plenty of players enjoy their online SWTOR experience just fine without ever doing so. Amazing, huh?

[Darthanimus]

Ye, but you are all missing my point. you can use super mega ultra gear gained from SR TR and Nim ops for regs etc, it makes it no fun, PvP is already a **** show, now it will be even worse.

[KendraP]

Ye, but you are all missing my point. you can use super mega ultra gear gained from SR TR and Nim ops for regs etc, it makes it no fun, PvP is already a **** show, now it will be even worse.

 

Actually this was part of my point too, in my essay on the previous page. I said it gave a hypothetical advantage in regs pvp, which is a place where you cannot earn the mats.

 

I grant that regs has so many more variables that this is likely just that - hypothetical.

Edited September 21, 2020 by KendraP

[Jamtas]

Exactly this. Mr. Kanneg needs to prove that his vision of this game is working. But since it's not, he has to use tricks.

 

"I only wish Ben were here." (Luke Skywalker)

 

No, God No. Please. NOOOOOOOOOOOOO (Michael Scott Quote, the office)

 

Dislike this new release all you want, but making a play back for previous director is the definition of looking back with rose colored glasses. We're talking an augment here, the last one screwed the ENTIRE gearing system. In no way shape or form should we ever wish back for that.

 

That part out of the way, the other side of this seems to be that they are giving these augs as a way to boost those who need that extra bump to clear the HM content.

But if that's the case, requiring them to be able to down potentially 100s of NiM bosses to earn enough of the drops to get the PVE material to progress though HM/NIM Dxun along with god knows how many Ranked PVP wins they must get to go along with that is crazy.

 

But I'm with others here. I would really be surprised to hear BW reverse course on a decision. Past history is full of times they ignored the collective voices here and went forward anyways to only slowly dial it back over months. (Initial galactic command launch/pre launch feels very familiar here)

Edited September 21, 2020 by Jamtas

[Tsillah]

Seriously? You sound like you have never never stepped in a wz ever!

I agree that the difference in warzones will be more significant than elsewhere in the game, but that doesn't mean that the difference between the current augments and the upcoming ones constitute gear > skill.

 

Look at the total points that your gear + augments give now and then see the point difference with the new augments. It's only a small difference in the grand total. It seems like you aren't that good with math.

Edited September 21, 2020 by Tsillah

[Travddm]

I'm unsubscribing, and will probably never play this game again until I see changes that make endgame or "competitive" content enticing, and not an absolutely horrendous and completely unrewarding grindfest. This game is a WoW clone, it launched nearly 8 years later, and it has astronomically less enjoyable and rewarding gameplay. SWTOR is superior to every other MMORPG I have played in only a single area: story. I don't play endgame PvP frequently enough to have a solid opinion, but I've been running endgame PvE content on this game for years, therefore I'll only touch on the topics I have a reasonable understanding of.

 

I love Star Wars, and I love the stories SWTOR has brought to the table. As for endgame content, well...

• It's boring
  
  • There are 11 multi-boss operations, and this game launched 8 years ago. That's an average of 1.375 ops/raids per year, but since 2015 we've only seen 2 new operations. That's an average of 0.4 ops/raids per year over the past 5 years. The content is stale, and endgame raiding is therefore stale. Dxun is really fun and engaging, and I'd love to see more content like that come out more frequently.
    
  • As of 6.0, the most efficient way to gear up and prepare your character for endgame content is to mindlessly and endlessly grind a stale flashpoint that was designed to be played starting around levels 13-17, except now you're level 70-75. Yes, it's MM Hammer Station. No, this wasn't the developers' intentions and no, they haven't done anything to fix this. This is particularly annoying when you're trying to gear 10 characters -- are you going to run the latest, freshest content? Absolutely not. You're going to spam MM Hammer Station because it's the easiest and quickest Flashpoint in the game, and you get the same reward you would get for something such as MM The Nathema Conspiracy. (btw, the list of flashpoints on the holonet is years out-of-date)
    

  [*]It's unrewarding

  • The level scaling and bolstering in lv70 operations, flashpoints, warzones (pretty much all endgame content) that introduce HARD stat caps makes gear progression almost completely worthless aside from running Dxun, the only lv75 operation in the game where level scaling doesn't apply.
    
  • There is little to nothing at all in terms of exclusive legacy-bound cosmetic rewards for completing endgame PvE content. No (or very little) pets, mounts, titles, armor, or anything that would distinguish you as having completed difficult game content aside from achievements. It almost seems as though you would rather sell all cosmetic items for cartel coins?
    

  [*]It's unbalanced

  • I really hope I don't have to explain this one, but: every single max level increase has brought massive sweeping balance changes for every class, each time making at least a single class spec completely unviable in either PvP or PvE while at least another single class spec is so disproportionately overpowered that most class specs can't even hope to compete. Soon after, they release a balance patch (or a series of balance patches) that wildly over (or under) compensates, sometimes completely reversing the roles of the aforementioned class specs, and then it's left relatively stagnant until the next max level increase. Seeing this go on for years, I've gotten the impression that balance changes are based on subreddit and forum posts, and not legitimate analysis and testing. The vast, vast majority of players will never post on the SWTOR subreddit or forums and those who do use those to give feedback on class/spec balance are usually complaining because they got annihilated by a better PvP player or some other PvE player's parse was higher. Why should the better player be penalized for being better at the game? This limited-scope user feedback is not a good basis for balance changes, and classes/specs should be balanced for equality of outcome when each class/spec is being utilized perfectly.
    

 

There are innumerable issues with endgame content, and I've only listed a select few here that have irritated myself and those I play with. Please correct me if any of my information is inaccurate. I simply do not find this game to be a MMORPG worth playing anymore, and haven't seen any attempts to alleviate the problems and unoriginality that plague it. In fact, with updates like this, it's only getting worse.

 

It's clear to me that this update is an attempt to entice players to stick around and continue to pay their subscriptions with the promise of gear progression that won't make any difference whatsoever in 99.9% of the game's content. The tiny stat boost you may gain from the augments are not worth the obscene amount of time, effort and/or credits it would supposedly take to attain them.

 

Good luck. Let me know when/if you've made SWTOR into a MMORPG with fun, engaging, and rewarding replayable endgame content and I'll happily fork over my subscription fee.

Edited September 21, 2020 by Travddm

[dreckwurst]

i think this is a good idea.