High time Operatives/Scoundrels got a YUUUUGE nerf bat.

[Sappharan]

A class that literally turn invincible and untouchable every few seconds while also being able to self heal indefinitely should not have this kind of power as it's making killing them into an exercise of futility.

 

Mind you, I dislike the class but I don't want to see it gutted either. Hopefully any reduction in power will only affect PvP.

[RomichGausser]

Mind you, I dislike the class but I don't want to see it gutted either. Hopefully any reduction in power will only affect PvP.

 

Believe me, I love my operative and have no desire seeing the class getting gutted either, but that reflect is causing more trouble than it's worth. I'd be perfectly ok with it gone.

 

Will it solve the issue of operatives being gods of 1v1? No, but it'll certainly help.

[Raansu]

Personally I'd just like to have the class go back to being fun to play again. Ever since they added the roll and the hots to the class and removed shoot first and flechette round skill I started to find the class boring to play. The delayed burst mechanic didn't help either.

[AocaVII]

Instead of people always complaining about classes being overpowered, we should show how to counter the class. It would be more productive and stop DEVS from making unnecessary nerfs. Every class has weaknesses, and can be shutdown, no matter how good the player is.

 

This is very basic here LMAO but a stealth class if they pop out and attack, chain stun you; they will have all their buffs ready that is when you pop your strongest defensives phase walk for example, every class has a way out. I'm not listing all of them LOL

 

Maybe some people will contribute to this to help people counter. I just don't have the time to make a comprehensive list of classes and how to counter them. I can give some good counters for op and sins for a merc.

 

A good merc can give Ops, Sins fits so learn to play a merc. You have nets to stop the rolls & cloaks, you can kite, when they are low or even half health pop a stealth scan on them. Once that scan is on them, they become much less aggressive and think more about "how will I get out of this if I can't cloak" I see it when I play my merc. They panic. Also, it forces them to move out of the stealth scan, and stop attacking you etc.

 

Spam aoes out of combat on any class if you know they are on the other team. You pop them out, and they are caught off guard or need to waste a cloak. A good op you probably won't be able to kill, usually but it does happen and/or they can be shutdown, not able to dps. Personally, I like giving them fits with the nets and stealth scans when they at about 25% usually they run away or die.

 

I'm not really a fan of stealth classes, especially now with 4 in a group. It's kind of a cheap way of opening up on somebody, and globaling them. It's not very impressive tbh LOL

 

I hope that instead of always complaining that people can explain how the class can be killed and shutdown, instead of these pointless arguments.

 

I suggest, next time someone says nerf this or that BS instead of debating it, show them how to counter LOL

Edited September 22, 2020 by AocaVII

[Sappharan]

A good merc can give Ops, Sins fits so learn to play a merc.

 

There's a reason that operatives have their own brackets in tournaments 1v1.

 

On topic, I don't know anyone who thinks mercenaries are weak. Show me how to play a weak class against a strong class. Better yet, demonstrate it against a skilled player.

[snave]

There's a reason that operatives have their own brackets in tournaments 1v1.

 

On topic, I don't know anyone who thinks mercenaries are weak. Show me how to play a weak class against a strong class. Better yet, demonstrate it against a skilled player.

 

Duels are not the same as a 1v1 in a PvP game mode. I'm not saying operatives aren't the best at that too, it's just an important distinction that everyone seems to overlook.

 

If you're looking for examples of weak classes vs strong classes, look at the previous URC events and just look for whatever class you want to see being played. Multiple upsets over the last 3 events and I'm sure there'll be more upsets this Friday when we do the next one.

[Raansu]

There's a reason that operatives have their own brackets in tournaments 1v1.

 

On topic, I don't know anyone who thinks mercenaries are weak. Show me how to play a weak class against a strong class. Better yet, demonstrate it against a skilled player.

 

Between scan, enet, reflect etc....I'd say mercs counter ops pretty hard.

[AocaVII]

Between scan, enet, reflect etc....I'd say mercs counter ops pretty hard.

 

Yea tbh I really don't have problems with them in pvp on merc and now that I been playing on my sorc dps, I seem not to have issues with them. They usually can't catch up with me between phase walk , force speed , barrier, stuns and grenades etc; They kind of give up on trying to catch up with me after while and just ignore me which is lovely for me LOL

 

IDK I don't really care for duels. IG since the consensus is they win every duel, I'd lose LOL

 

They have a major weakness if you're ranged they don't really have any knock back immunity; not like juggs and mara also it's a major weakness for pts and sins so obv I'm gonna use that tool as well. On a sorc it's usually a stalemate in pvp for me at least with a player of equal skill. We both are chasing one another when health is low with the other is running and healing.

Edited September 23, 2020 by AocaVII

[AocaVII]

Duels are not the same as a 1v1 in a PvP game mode. I'm not saying operatives aren't the best at that too, it's just an important distinction that everyone seems to overlook.

 

If you're looking for examples of weak classes vs strong classes, look at the previous URC events and just look for whatever class you want to see being played. Multiple upsets over the last 3 events and I'm sure there'll be more upsets this Friday when we do the next one.

 

@ Sappharan

"Show me how to play a weak class against a strong class. Better yet, demonstrate it against a skilled player".

 

This is why:

 

Pt's, snipers, maras, and juggs even sins are "support classes" which need to be healed. Sorc, merc, op, are more self sustainable. I'm not an expert on melee so I can't speak to that but I do play them, just not recently. I don't know what classes are really weak rn. They all seem pretty strong to me.

 

If you are 1 v 1 vs an op in PVP or duel, and your on are a class that can't run and heal or cloak, you will die without heals, probably.... but that's why they are support classes; they require heals. They are not designed for duels or pvp 1v1s vs classes that can. Classes are not designed around dueling or 1v1s.

 

It's not because they are "weak classes."

 

Let's give maras, pts and snipers a way to go and heal in the corner in combat. You would see these forums light up like a Christmas Tree LMAO

Edited September 23, 2020 by AocaVII

[ReinhartRussian]

Can we introduce a small nerf to roll.

 

Something like after roll their healing and damage are reduced by 50% for 6 seconds

[malyj]

Come on, man.

 

Roll 8 seconds. Immunity for 2 seconds after every roll.

With gear, that drops rull down to 6 seconds with 2 second immunity.

 

So basically 1/3rd of the time you cannot touch scoundrels.

If they take damage, evasion time is reduced.

Then add in healing.

Then add in their massive burst damage.

 

Why would anyone play no other class when you can heals a good as healers, your DPS is on the top of every PVP match and 33% of the time you are immune from ALL damage.

 

Whoever thought up this GOD class should be fired.

 

It's high time you took away roll immunity and cut healing by 75% (so they are on par with other classes) and make Operatives have to work as hard as other classes for kills. Not just allow them to roll over other classes.

 

Utter trash game right now for PVP.

 

If one or two operatives hurt you so bad you need to go whining on the forums to nerf a class into the ground that you don't even know how to play, could you at least name them and give them a little credit for making you act like such a little *****?

[Sappharan]

Duels are not the same as a 1v1 in a PvP game mode. I'm not saying operatives aren't the best at that too, it's just an important distinction that everyone seems to overlook.

 

Fair enough.

 

If you're looking for examples of weak classes vs strong classes, look at the previous URC events and just look for whatever class you want to see being played. Multiple upsets over the last 3 events and I'm sure there'll be more upsets this Friday when we do the next one.

 

Well, I am certainly looking forward to it. Hopefully there will be some pleasant surprises in the form of upsets.

[Sappharan]

Between scan, enet, reflect etc....I'd say mercs counter ops pretty hard.

 

No, no...I get that. What I meant was that mercenaries are a strong class.

[Fuzzy_OwO]

The only issue I have with them is that the roll immunity lasts like half a second longer than the animation, they can roll and then pop an instant ability while still being immune.

[Majspuffen]

Pro tip. Learn to root. Learn to swap to operative when they don't have a breaker. But we all know you won't.

 

Learn to root? Operatives have a ton of ways to break roots. Evasion breaks roots, their dispel breaks tech roots and they can specialize so that countermeasures removes roots (which has a 30s CD if memory recalls). Holotraverse can break root if specialized. Maybe Operatives wouldn't have been buffed so much if "people learned how to" dispel in the first place, but alas.

 

All of the classes in this game need a nerf in some form or the other, not just operatives. The game as a whole needs to pull a wow and do an ability/utility squish. Not to the extremes of WoW did, but it needs to happen. Too many tacked on utilities and other crap in the game.

 

The design of 1.x was way more elegant than the hot mess we've got today. The gameplay of the classes were based around the aesthetics of their respective class fantasies. Why do Operatives have a reflect anyways? How does that mesh with the class fantasy?

 

When asking these questions it's common to get answers such as "who cares about aesthetics" and "gameplay is king". I'd argue that the aesthetics are very important, though. If this game hadn't had the Star Wars IP I bet it would have a lot less players than it currently does. The game is at its best when the gameplay is good and cohesive with the class fantasies.

Edited September 24, 2020 by Majspuffen

[Voroschuk]

I would say high time to buff other classes so they could be equally good, oper is a really fun class that seems to have a useful ability for every situation. Why just not make every other class like that? (150% reflect is BS tho)

 

I also can’t disagree more with all that crap about not every class should be viable in 1v1, and it should be balanced around teams like 4v4 or 8v8. Around which teams let me ask you? RNG matchmaking teams where everyone plays same specs depending on current meta? Those statements are flawed in their cores, because if there is a better 1v1 class there is no team balance as well unless everyone in both teams plays that class. There is no actual team composition, unless all PVP in this game will be limited to group ranked (and that will suck imo).

Edited September 24, 2020 by Voroschuk

[DavidAtkinson]

Nerf this , buff that... This has been the discussion for many many years and as we can all see, it leads to nowhere...

 

Instead of asking for nerfs, why not buff every class and make them all viable for competitive PVP ?

Edited September 24, 2020 by DavidAtkinson

[Sappharan]

Nerf this , buff that... This has been the discussion for many many years and as we can all see, it leads to nowhere...

 

Instead of asking for nerfs, why not buff every class and make them all viable for competitive PVP ?

 

It would be an extremely complicated affair in which the power creep would lead to power leap. People complain even in this game about numbers being too large. As much as I loathe nerfing (and I passionately loathe nerfs), I do understand the occasional necessity of it.

[Majspuffen]

Nerf this , buff that... This has been the discussion for many many years and as we can all see, it leads to nowhere...

 

Instead of asking for nerfs, why not buff every class and make them all viable for competitive PVP ?

 

Nerfs are preferable over buffs. These days it feels like every class has a way to heal themselves and every class has a mobility ability. Abilities these days can have a multitude of different effects depending on your utility slots and the result is not good gameplay. It's rather messy. When you're in the thick of combat these days it feels like you can only really move when you have a mobility CD ready.

 

You don't get good balance by constantly buffing classes. If one thing is misperforming in comparison to seven other things, the easiest solution ought to be to change the one thing rather than all the seven others.

[ReinhartRussian]

Can they please lose their evasion effect from the roll? Or make it a tactical instead

[Yamahara]

Nerfs are preferable over buffs. These days it feels like every class has a way to heal themselves and every class has a mobility ability. Abilities these days can have a multitude of different effects depending on your utility slots and the result is not good gameplay. It's rather messy. When you're in the thick of combat these days it feels like you can only really move when you have a mobility CD ready.

 

You don't get good balance by constantly buffing classes. If one thing is misperforming in comparison to seven other things, the easiest solution ought to be to change the one thing rather than all the seven others.

 

*Laughs in Powertech* PT is a glass cannon with no dcd's and a so called heal that literally has fancy green numbers that do nothing, lol.

 

Anyways, honestly BW's nerfs have always been so bad we're probably better off tweaking the sub par classes than screwing classes with nerfs.

[DarthFenris]

Come on, man.

 

Roll 8 seconds. Immunity for 2 seconds after every roll.

With gear, that drops rull down to 6 seconds with 2 second immunity.

 

So basically 1/3rd of the time you cannot touch scoundrels.

If they take damage, evasion time is reduced.

Then add in healing.

Then add in their massive burst damage.

 

Why would anyone play no other class when you can heals a good as healers, your DPS is on the top of every PVP match and 33% of the time you are immune from ALL damage.

 

Whoever thought up this GOD class should be fired.

 

It's high time you took away roll immunity and cut healing by 75% (so they are on par with other classes) and make Operatives have to work as hard as other classes for kills. Not just allow them to roll over other classes.

 

Utter trash game right now for PVP.

 

It's not only that their stun lock or their damage needs to be nerfed, I was just in a warzone where I was on my juggernaut I got stunned then burned down to almost nothing poped my ED and went back up to full health came out of stun was restunned hit my stun break was restunned and burned to nothing meanwhile my resolve bar was barely half to 3/4 full. There is no reason a class with their roll immunity, dodge, avoidance, heals, and that high damage should be able to stun someone several times without fulling their resolve bar. Mind you this was just one operative. You get 2+ of them together you might as well quit the warzone. I know BW hates us PvPers but taking away their stun lock isn't going to affect them in any way in PvE. Every other class in the game has a balance to it except Operative. Even Shadows and Assassins as the other stealth based class can't pull off the BS that Operatives have. Also this isn't a matter of "Learning how to beat them" because a single operative can lock down 3-5 people with a combination of their DCDs, rolls, and stun locks. No other class can do that. Mind you I am not some new player complaining about higher geared more experienced players. My Jug main is fully geared and min/maxed with over 10k power. I have also played this game from the 2nd to last Beta until now.

[OM-AR]

Had my real 1v1 encounter with the operatives today on my AP PT, couldn’t kill him no matter what I did. Also the stun followed by the heal while eating away chunks from my health was shocking tbo.

 

I can understand that you may be good at survival, healing or dps and maybe at two things......but not everything!

[-Bob-]

Had my real 1v1 encounter with the operatives today on my AP PT, couldn’t kill him no matter what I did. Also the stun followed by the heal while eating away chunks from my health was shocking tbo.

 

I can understand that you may be good at survival, healing or dps and maybe at two things......but not everything!

 

I'm gonna guess you just need more practice against ops? Granted a 1v1 against a good OP is still gonna kill you, but you should still be able to hold your own and get their health down enough for team mates to finish the job. I mean, thats just life in the fast lane Bro and thats where we live!!!!

[Sappharan]

Mere competent operatives will still kill even very skilled players of other classes. Every other class (save operative) should not require help killing an operative. Between their reflect, burst, roll, mobility, heals, AND stealth, they have the toolkit to deal with every threat. The player base has accepted, en masse, that operative rules the roost...but some of us do not. Operative has been on top for literal years. It's time for a change.

 

Operative players will, and have, argued that "it's okay for a class to be the best"...which is self serving, convenient, and predictable. Many would agree that change is in order and it is long past due. I am not advocating for something like the thread title, but adjustments should be made. Operatives ruling the roost is old and boring.

Edited October 10, 2020 by Sappharan