I don't see a downside to no penalty if the war zone is bad and everyone just leaving and letting the war zone abort to start a new war zone that could possibly be more balanced. Yes if players don't know when a lot of players leave rapidly out of a war zone the war zone will abort. It's actually a workaround for a bad war zone. The war zone abort function is there for a reason. The reason is if the war zone is bad enough everyone can leave. It's actually a good function. It's intended to reshuffle the matchmaking and make the matches better. I said in another post. Not being able to leave when the experience of the war zone is bordering on traumatic and emotionally draining is abusive! It's like being locked in a prison or some insane asylum and you can't get out. Let people out of the prison, developers. These war zones that are just absolutely atrocious totally disgust me. I just log off.

These ideas delude players misleading them into thinking something is true when it's not which only continues this whole delusional theory about PVP that fools new players into adapting bad ideas about PVP which doesn't help improve our awful dysfunctional PVP situation. A large percentage of matches that are played are absolutely awful you might get one two out of 10 matches that are actually decent. There's a reason for that and it's how people think. You are living in a different reality than I am. I'm not adapting to your perception of reality. I know and see clearly what the class is and the state of PVP. I have played this class a very long time and observed other people play this class. Right now it is not in a good place. Most people do know this. It's not a good idea to spread ideas that are not correct for players who don't know. This is common knowledge among experienced good players. In addition, there are a lot of things in PvP that are just common knowledge that good experienced players know and what I see in war zones is the exact opposite for most of the time. Yes I realize you love the class and the genre and your blinded by that. It wouldn't be the first of many many times that I have seen this. There's many classes and specs that I loved but I played them out in their bad state and they're just not good for the game in war zones so I just don't play them anymore because they're not optimal and don't make the playing experience good for anyone. Well it's good if you want to farm players that are under false ideas but it doesn't improve balance. When I see a merc, I literally am like okay how fast can I kill him. There's not even the thought that there have the capacity to kill me. Now if I see other classes that are much better I know that I'm going to have to work much harder to not to die and kill them.

I'm glad that so many solo q players have seen this thread. The whole purpose of this thread is to make war zones better for people that don't want to face pre-mades. 👍 Which in effect will make pre-made's fight other premades. Hopefully improving the experience for everyone. There's two types of people. One just accepts the status quo and asks someone else to change or in this case broadsword to do something. Then there are other people that take matters into their own hands and try to change things. You would want to be the latter so you can control your destiny and not rely on other people too much, in order to create PVP balance ⚖️ and a pleasant experience. Also, IRL...

Any class can kill garbo players. I'm talking about real players not bots. I have had many, many six - eight person pre-mades vs pre-made with ranked and some of the best/experienced players on the server. No one ever plays a commando or mercenary for DPS. Yes the DOT spec is a higher tier however the dot spec really is not a main thing that people play in PvP that understand PVP because it makes you very immobile on a class where you already can't kite. The rotations are long and impractical in most PVP scenarios. In order to maximize your killing potential, you have to have specific circumstances which are rare. So in other words it's not reliable DPS. For example you're in a heavy melee war zone and you have four people jumping on you the whole war zone what are you going to do? Die 10 times pretty much. Example 2, the other team has great healing with tanks the highest hit mercenary dots do is below 60k; you will never kill anything. Engineering sniper hardest hit 140k or better, Juggernaut hardest hit 100K or better, Marauder 50kish but bursty, powertech 100k. To me it's just a player playing Merc dps is not quick enough to hit defensives and doesn't want to use a class with less defensives or harder to execute defenses that can do better damage/killing in more scenarios or if they just enjoy playing it, so be it. Reliable DPS that kills good players in every circumstance: marauder, power tech/non dot, engineering sniper and rage juggernaut. Assassin can be bursty but it's too squishy for regular wz, fine for arenas. Operative outside of arenas rn is a troll class Also there's two types of classes there's direct damage burst classes which actually kill things. Then on the contrary there's trolling classes which are mostly dot classes where yeah you can get 20K DPS but get three kills but you can e-flex and it looks like you're a great player. I play dot classes to troll not to actually kill good players, just for fun. And I never derp my group if I want to premade with a class that doesn't kill anything quickly. This is also why you don't nerf bursting classes because like I said in a different post I've been in this game long enough to see when they Nerf the classes in this way it is so bad that nothing dies it is the worst possible PVP you can ever imagine.

Marksman sniper is a C tier class in PvP as well as Mercenary because they both don't do sufficient damage to kill people. C tier is the worst btw. I will hold your hand here and direct you to expert PvPers on YouTube and theory crafters that test all this stuff and make tiers for classes and specs in PvP. Go to YouTube and search for swtor class tier. I don't just go there and look I know because I've played both classes/spec since launch and right now they're both not pumping out enough damage. The dcds mean nothing if you can't kill anything. This is also a bad mentality people play tanks, stealth classes, and mercenaries because of the defensives/ability to cloak so they don't instant die because they're not skilled enough to play anything swishy but they can't do any damage so there's just no point. That's like having a huge weapon that can sit there and take damage forever but never does any damage. Explain to me how that makes any sense?

I don't know sometimes I'm in a pre-made and not so much recently because I been avoiding it because it bores me killing bots but they will PVP for hours and like literally not even say a word lol

Yep sometimes I'd rather be in The Pit even or a different wz when they run all over or I do arenas. Sometimes, you get lucky and can quickly get in a few good matches in an arena because they are forced to stay in one place. I mean I enjoy healing. How am I supposed to heal people all over the place that can't kill anything? At least in an arena I get to heal every player. Some would say just make a pre-made but then you make a premade and there's nothing to heal because the other players can't do any damage to heal. It feels like you're just some healing bot, a companion, lmao They should really make you at least if your a sub to leave the warzone. I bet people would sub just to be able to leave warzone without penalty. I mean what's the point of the penalty in a war zone where there's no purpose. It's a total waste for me and everyone else to be in the war zone. It feels like being locked in a prison of insanity. Let the players out so the war zone aborts. Then you have a better chance of getting a more enjoyable warzone. I mean how would that be a bad thing if it's just a bad match and people just all start leaving and the war zone aborts and you get a better warzone who is that hurting? It would be a great thing👍⚖️ However, we know they never listen to the players and this will probably never happen.

The other team wasn't even good that's the sad part lmao It wasn't even a premade. It's just simple math two versus five you're not going to win three versus six you're not going to win. I just don't get the lack of reasoning. It's just astonishes me that people can't understand a simple thing like that lol

This is what I experienced today: I explained how to play the warzone civil war; 7 mid 1 grass, call for help. So they just don't listen 2 go to grass, 3 go to snow. So we have a 3 vs 7 at mid. Then, they take the middle, snow and all that happens is the team just randomly keeps trying to go after snow and mid for the next 15 minutes and gets farmed. I mean I have done this warzone probably 10,000 times at least. They don't listen. What are we supposed to do with people like this? LoL You can't do objectives, you can't farm when it's two versus five, three versus six, one versus four they just run all over the place aimlessly. How do they not understand this? LMAO I did more damage and killed more players alone near the grass node...then the rest of the team. I was in combat for 1/4 of the warzone.🚫 Then they blame me and say how wrong I am about how the team need to fight even fights. I mean do they live in the same solar system as we do? They die 15 times and do 300k total damage. Are they on self-destructive mode? I'm not asking for answers to these questions I already know the answers. They are too immature to even listen to someone else's instructions. I mean I'm not demanding people listen to me. I say something like this is how you play this war zone and then I go on and I explain it the way it's been played since launch. Intent is to help players and you get flamed. Like seriously, I just log off after that. I'm not going to go make a premade so I don't have to play with them and sit there and kill them in 2 seconds because it's boring. LoL how do we get rid of these players? They are like a disease for PvP. U can't. That's the bad part. All I can do is log off and log on a different time and see if it changes. It's unplayable. This has been a common occurrence for about the last year and a half. New players used to listen to more experienced players and actually do the warzone correctly. It's just like I'm totally puzzled because it's so simple and so easy to understand and they just don't do it. I can't understand their thought process.

Dude find the guide👍 In creating this thread. I realized that these players don't have it as good as we did because like I said there aren't a huge amount of great players around to show them anymore like we had that could be part of the problem. However back then they weren't guides as good as this guide to show people but it's available now. I will even give you a little bit of help finding it just go to playlists beginners PVP I believe it's titled. That's why I had mentioned some of the people that make these groups just want to stick with their friends that they know because they don't want to expand their social circle but this doesn't really help anyone except for the person. It doesn't help PVP to improve. It just makes the situation worse. We had guilds for years new players came in and we help them. The mentality of some of these people they just don't want to expand their social circles and that's another problem. You want a good PVP game and enjoyable PVP game but you place the importance of the social aspect of the game over the quality of improving the game by growing and helping other players. So this is a good thing we can see some of the problems that exist by so maybe this will help solve them. That's a new one so this is why it's important to not keep these social circles closed because you are just self destroying your own PVP experience. In all the guilds that I was ever in in every game and all the players that I played with we always tried to include other people and help them. We never had closed circles. It's kind of selfish and unproductive if you ask me.

Okay so how does that help the current situation? You want all the players to be awful so this way the awful players can have a better time at playing. So I should just unbind all my key binds undo everything I did to become better use bad gear and then do war zones. Tell me how that makes any sense at all? So I have to be awfully at PVP to accommodate awful PVP players are you kidding me? This isn't grade school where everyone wins and gets a prize. This is a grown up world. There are winners and there are losers. What does your comment do to help players and to help PVP in general? I played other games many other games PVP where they were very experienced players and I was awful but over time I learned and I got better. What's what's the problem here? I didn't ask the players who were good already to become bad to accommodate me lol

Part of it is that I see a lot of players who don't want to improve and don't want to put in any effort so therefore the intention here is to have people who REALLY want to play better to put in a little extra to find the channel. If they don't want to put in the effort, to even search for it they will never do what's on there that is suggested to do to play better👍 The mentality of majority of the players is they don't want to put the work into become better or the effort to do the research into the classes and practice. Last night I saw some of the worst war zones I've ever seen. The player quality and the gear is just atrocious. It's disgusting. I see people putting in absolutely no effort to improve. I really would just like to have good players on both sides with balanced fights. As I said many times in the past developers will not fix this. It needs to be fixed by the players. This is my attempt to improve this situation. Right now there are some really good players who are quitting the game and some players also that are very good that just aren't playing as much anymore so it's just going to get worse and worse until there's no PVP. I wish there were guides like this when I first started playing. It's a gold mine. It would have accelerated my progression as a player much faster. When you talk about player quality, players aren't just naturally great. Everyone has to do the work the research the thinking practicing, rotations, making key binds, all the stuff that goes along with it. You're not just born a great PVP player. I'm not sure some of these people even understand that. Also, remember when we first started playing, those people have been playing for a while, a lot of these ways of playing better we're discussed in guilds and were discussed among friends. These new players don't have a huge player base that they communicate with to find out how to play better which we had. I had huge PVP guilds where knowledge was shared and people practiced and helped each other. Right now that doesn't really happen. I shared and helped many players. The guide can do this much better than me helping people 1 on 1 on how to play.

Well, it's his YouTube channel. I don't think that I really have the right to put a link to his channel and I haven't spoken to him so if he sees this I'm sure he'll link it or if someone else wants to link it go ahead feel free.

If any new players want to improve their PvP performance, there's and excellent guide someone created for beginners, along with very good gearing, tactics and rotations for any pvper, and for every class. I don't want to post the link here but if you search on YouTube: SWTOR and then Ivanno, it will show up. It is really an excellent, extensive guide for someone who is new to PVP and also for more advanced players. If you're looking for the beginner videos, just search in his videos you will find it it is there or you can just search as I said and then add for beginners it might pop up. I'm not trying to endorse him but I did watch his videos because he's got some really good stuff in there and then I became friends with him through discord. They are very helpful videos. I'm not sure if you're even allowed to post links and here so I'm not posting but if people want to PM me they can feel free to and I believe I can send you the link there and it should be fine. I wouldn't even mention it; except it was done so exceptionally well. 👍

You're reality is not the one I see. Like I said this is a constructive, productive thread to help people who do not want to play against premades. If you do not want to help with this, please do not contribute. You are not helping PVP in any way shape or form. This is a PVP forum to help PVP become better for players. If someone is not willing to contribute to that, I would say that they shouldn't post at all. Everything you have said has no productive value for anyone. I could have just chosen not to make the thread and just keep the secret myself and the game would be fine for me but I'm trying to help other players who don't want to face pre-mades. If you don't want to help, then do something else.