Season 13 and the Future of PvP

[Lhancelot]

In theory yes, you are of course correct, but this will only make a low population even lower. I would assume that most people doing ranked are solely doing it for PvP and not the rewards, but a small minority might be incentivized to try it with a mindset of "at least I get some rewards even if I fail". You could argue it being a question of quantity vs. quality, but can we really be picky?

 

Or by raising the quality of matches more people queue. It can go both ways, however I believe positive reinforcement is the best way to illicit a specific desired behavior in people, and gamers are no different.

 

I can't see this change damaging regs tbh, but for it to really be a helpful feature they have to be sure people are at the very least tolerant of the map selection pops. If people are content with the maps they get from queuing, then a quitter debuff will only strengthen and support a better game mode.

[Sertar]

noob Scoundrels, commandos getting top 96 rewards with only 1300-1400 elo

I prefer a 1300 elo noob in top 96 over a multi-season cheater any time

[Raansu]

Enjoy your dead queues. No rewards = no incentives = people stop queuing.

 

$100 says nothing will change. Quit being a drama queen.

[omaan]

I prefer a 1300 elo noob in top 96 over a multi-season cheater any time

 

Who said those 1300 rated didn't cheat?I know at least two of them who did it even for such small rating welcome to swtor

[Rion_Starkiller]

+1 for removing OPG

 

That map is so lopsided 9 times out 10.

[Shadrachwacker]

This is not a flame intended for anyone, just thinking outloud. But I see so much back and forth on these forums. I dont know the statistics, but let's just say half the people want to keep OPG and half dont. Well whatever decision they make they are upsetting 50% of the player base. Then there's an argument about deserter lockout. Let's say thats 50/50 as well but now you've alienated some of the people who wanted to keep OPG but not have a lockout timer. And so now you've successfully made 25% of your player base happy but upset the other 75%.

 

I guess what I'm saying is its impossible to make everyone happy and there is going to be a decision somewhere along the way that upsets you. I think being mature about it and voicing your concerns is better than "im going to troll every game from now on because the developers didn't agree with me". Accept the decision and adapt.

 

I don't envy anyone in power.

[TrixxieTriss]

This is not a flame intended for anyone, just thinking outloud. But I see so much back and forth on these forums. I dont know the statistics, but let's just say half the people want to keep OPG and half dont. Well whatever decision they make they are upsetting 50% of the player base. Then there's an argument about deserter lockout. Let's say thats 50/50 as well but now you've alienated some of the people who wanted to keep OPG but not have a lockout timer. And so now you've successfully made 25% of your player base happy but upset the other 75%.

 

I guess what I'm saying is its impossible to make everyone happy and there is going to be a decision somewhere along the way that upsets you. I think being mature about it and voicing your concerns is better than "im going to troll every game from now on because the developers didn't agree with me". Accept the decision and adapt.

 

I don't envy anyone in power.

 

I would say they have other metrics to go on as well, like how many people leave as soon as OPG pops.

[KendraP]

I would say they have other metrics to go on as well, like how many people leave as soon as OPG pops.

 

I agree, while I personally dont mind an occasional opg (certainly beats queshball), i daresay thr only people with the numbers are BW.

[Nickodemous]

This is not a flame intended for anyone, just thinking outloud. But I see so much back and forth on these forums. I dont know the statistics, but let's just say half the people want to keep OPG and half dont. Well whatever decision they make they are upsetting 50% of the player base. Then there's an argument about deserter lockout. Let's say thats 50/50 as well but now you've alienated some of the people who wanted to keep OPG but not have a lockout timer. And so now you've successfully made 25% of your player base happy but upset the other 75%.

 

I guess what I'm saying is its impossible to make everyone happy and there is going to be a decision somewhere along the way that upsets you. I think being mature about it and voicing your concerns is better than "im going to troll every game from now on because the developers didn't agree with me". Accept the decision and adapt.

 

I don't envy anyone in power.

 

I live in a state that still has "dry counties". Occasionally, when a county tries to vote themselves "wet", meaning retailers can now sell beer/liquor, there are always various groups that oppose it and try to prevent it from happening. The groups that oppose county's going "wet" are always the loudest and most vocal. IF the proposal gets on the ballot though, you are almost assured it will pass.

 

My point is, your perception that it is a 50/50 split is probably incorrect. There is a very small fraction of the stwor pop that will voice their opinion on the forums, either for or against. In reality though, the majority either 1) don't care either way or 2) are for it but just don't voice their opinion. Just from experience, groups that oppose something are always the loudest / most vocal but, when it all said and done, turns out they were a very small percentage of the population. I would say that the majority does not care either way.

[Raansu]

I live in a state that still has "dry counties". Occasionally, when a county tries to vote themselves "wet", meaning retailers can now sell beer/liquor, there are always various groups that oppose it and try to prevent it from happening. The groups that oppose county's going "wet" are always the loudest and most vocal. IF the proposal gets on the ballot though, you are almost assured it will pass.

 

My point is, your perception that it is a 50/50 split is probably incorrect. There is a very small fraction of the stwor pop that will voice their opinion on the forums, either for or against. In reality though, the majority either 1) don't care either way or 2) are for it but just don't voice their opinion. Just from experience, groups that oppose something are always the loudest / most vocal but, when it all said and done, turns out they were a very small percentage of the population. I would say that the majority does not care either way.

 

Exactly this.

[Pallais]

I like Odessen Proving Grounds, but I do think it needs some tweaks. For starters, you shouldn't be able to deactivate your own active control point. Having someone do that is just annoying. Not a big occurrence, but it would avoid folks trolling their own team and stops people from being abusive towards someone new accidentally doing that. (Yes, it removes a small skill-check about knowing not to do it, but I think overall it is work stopping this happenstance.)

 

I would add more in-game prompts to tell folks what to do with the power-ups. Something like, "This power-up activates a new control point. Take it to one of the white unused areas to use and gain more points for your team". I'd combine that with showing folks holding a power-up on the minimap. Do this after they've held it for, say, 45 seconds . After a minute and a half give them a debuff that increases their damage. (The times are just examples to illustrate the idea.) The idea is to nudge people towards using the power-up and doing objective-based play, with a small stick if someone tries to stall by hanging onto a power-up.

[Shadrachwacker]

I would say they have other metrics to go on as well, like how many people leave as soon as OPG pops.

 

Oh I'm sure they do, I was just trying to use a generic example. My point was that its tough to please everyone because there are so many decisions made over the course of a game you are eventually going to upset everyone of your players in one way or another.

[varietasplus]

I like Odessen Proving Grounds, but I do think it needs some tweaks. For starters, you shouldn't be able to deactivate your own active control point.

 

There are situations where you have to deactive your own control point. For example, you have a red mod and you end up defending a node on your own (not a rare occurance nowadays, especially in final rounds). You see 3-4 enemies in a group incoming, but zero backup (which is not rare either). It is better to deactivate it so that they can not capture it.

[-Bob-]

There are situations where you have to deactive your own control point. For example, you have a red mod and you end up defending a node on your own (not a rare occurance nowadays, especially in final rounds). You see 3-4 enemies in a group incoming, but zero backup (which is not rare either). It is better to deactivate it so that they can not capture it.

 

People have to think a little too creatively to figure that one out.

[TrixxieTriss]

There are situations where you have to deactive your own control point. For example, you have a red mod and you end up defending a node on your own (not a rare occurance nowadays, especially in final rounds). You see 3-4 enemies in a group incoming, but zero backup (which is not rare either). It is better to deactivate it so that they can not capture it.

 

People have to think a little too creatively to figure that one out.

 

It’s not really that difficult to work out. It just requires a shift in thinking.

 

The the same as suiciding off the edge of the platform if you find yourself about to be overwhelmed, so as to not give the enemy a useful coloured mod.

 

I actually like the higher tactical and strategic thinking this map has available in it. And it would be a great 8v8 map in a ranked environment. But it’s a complete waste and let down in a reg environment because people don’t learn how to play. That’s why I don’t stay for OPG matches. It’s not that the map is terrible, it’s just not suited to a casual reg environment and it’s a terrible experience for me and not fun.

 

Most tactics I use in all objective pvp shouldn’t work most of the time, but they do because people don’t use their brains.

Ie, I can often pull a whole bunch of their people from the mid node in civil war by solo rushing their captured side node, which then let’s my team capture mid.

The same can be said with hypergates, where rushing their node solo can give them points if you keep dying. But if you can pull some of their guys out of mid and also not die, you can give your team a chance to get some boxes. The trick is staying alive

Neither of those should work with a semi competent team. But they do all the time because the other teams don’t use their brains.

Edited July 24, 2020 by TrixxieTriss

[limenutpen]

People have to think a little too creatively to figure that one out.

 

Yes. Is this a PvP forum...

Another trick I like to do in Yavin Ruins especially when one has sides (and 6 in a team just want to gag mid) is to switch off buffs every 2 mins. Really helps out to have time in your favor.

 

Fact - OPG is the best objective focused map in Swtor. Now if you like it or not that is another story.

I used to say NC was best, followed by AH.

The last year or so. 1. OPG 2. NC 3. AH

 

With the tweaks I mentioned in my previous post OPG would even get better.

Edited July 24, 2020 by limenutpen

[Nickodemous]

I actually like the higher tactical and strategic thinking this map has available in it. And it would be a great 8v8 map in a ranked environment.

 

I agree 100%.

 

One of my favorite things to do on this map, when I have a mod, is to use the catwalks. No one is ever up there .... there are multiple speed bursts and grapples in mid to move from side to side. You can literally move from one side of the map to the other in seconds, avoiding the chaos below. It really works well with a green mod so you can get a node activated quickly in an area where the opposing team is not.

 

I don't have a problem with this map at all, literally 2-3 experience players can dominate a match for a team.

[Pallais]

There are situations where you have to deactivate your own control point. For example, you have a red mod and you end up defending a node on your own (not a rare occurrence nowadays, especially in final rounds). You see 3-4 enemies in a group incoming, but zero backup (which is not rare either). It is better to deactivate it so that they can not capture it.

 

That's sensible play for a premade or competent PvPer. My point was more a suggestion for typical pug matches. It's too easy for average / casual PvP player to get tunnel vision and not use the power-ups appropriately. By making the deactivator an offense-only item it starts to -- possibly -- change the community perception about the map.

 

It would be nice to get some stats on how the power-ups are used. Are the deactivate ones used more offensively or defensively? Do power-ups get used or just held? (This all assumes that Bioware is tracking these types of metrics.) It would let us make better suggestions.

[merovejec]

We will be extending the Deserter queue lockout to 15 minutes, to disincentivize leaving matches early.

 

Since I am experiencing disconnections I am starting to get annoyed by this. Its not really my fault i get a DC and then i have to wait 15 min. Not to mention lose elo once the season is on the way. Cant the system detect a DC or a leave?

[Pallais]

Since I am experiencing disconnections I am starting to get annoyed by this. Its not really my fault i get a DC and then i have to wait 15 min. Not to mention lose elo once the season is on the way. Cant the system detect a DC or a leave?

 

The system can't detect a legitimate disconnect. People have used Alt-F4 or even unplugged their Internet connection in order to fake a disconnect. It's unfortunate, but problematic people would just kill their connection to leave to avoid the debuff otherwise.

[Ardrossan]

Holy crap the devs actually listened to players? to pvp players? And they're actually contemplating giving players more choice? That's like a trifecta of "things BW never does anymore".

 

I rarely leave any match, regs or ranked. Something has to be going very wrong in a match for me to even consider it. I don't expect to win every match but I always play to win. Heck, I don't even leave the annoying back fills into a lop sided match. Most of the time they are over quick and I just move on.

 

I have been watching this thread and understand some of the concerns about the debuff. It only 15 min folks, not the end of the world.

 

I will say that the only way I would have an issue with it is if the debuff is tied to a vote kick. I could see that becoming a serious issue if that happens - in both regs and ranked.

 

Agreed with all of this. If regs had a vote kick, that would be bad, but a deserter debuff sounds like a good idea to me - I hate people who leave as soon as the other side gets a node or scores a point or does anything that threatens certain victory. Yes choice is great, and choices have CONSEQUENCES. Wanna be selfish and disdain 'the social contract'? Then eat the 15 min timeout.

 

Will the debuff make any impact on pvp population, good or bad? meh, I doubt it. But I really enjoyed seeing the panicky outrage of people in this thread saying that they'll sabotage their own team if the deserter debuff gets implemented. This forum excels at providing opportunities for toxic players to out themselves.

 

Ranked is a toxic cesspit of abuse and hostility and if you play ranked, you know that's the truth. Every game, someone throws a load of abuse at someone else, win or lose. There's always someone poised to complain about someone for some reason, justified or not. I'd much rather play for rewards via regs but because of people like you, who want exclusives so you can show everyone how awesome you are, there're no rewards for playing regular warzones whatsoever.

.

 

It's telling that you think regs is worthless because it has fewer rewards. I don't pvp for rewards, but because it's fun. You clearly play only for rewards and I have to wonder what kind of teammate you'd be - would you be any better than the l33tists that have made ranked infamous?

 

I would add more in-game prompts to tell folks what to do with the power-ups. Something like, "This power-up activates a new control point. Take it to one of the white unused areas to use and gain more points for your team". I'd combine that with showing folks holding a power-up on the minimap. Do this after they've held it for, say, 45 seconds . After a minute and a half give them a debuff that increases their damage. (The times are just examples to illustrate the idea.) The idea is to nudge people towards using the power-up and doing objective-based play, with a small stick if someone tries to stall by hanging onto a power-up.

 

Agreed with all this. I love OPG and i'm sad to hear that I won't be playing it much anymore.

Edited July 25, 2020 by Ardrossan

[Llacertus]

I think they ought to allow power ups and deactivates to be interrupted even during duration of cc-immune abilities like entrench. The entrench-deactivate combo is used way too often in OPG, and its practically unstoppable. The only other class that has an effect similar to this is the sentinel's gravity vortex, and that ability isn't up nearly as long as snipers are.

 

Snipers right now can be completely immune to CC for 49 consecutive seconds if they Covered Escape(3s)>Entrench(20s)>Covered Escape(3s)>Imperial Preparation(Reset)>Entrench(20s)>Covered Escape(3s). I'm fairly certain most 1v1 fights do not last that long. And this is without the set bonus.

Edited July 25, 2020 by Llacertus

[Pallais]

Agreed with all of this. If regs had a vote kick, that would be bad, but a deserter debuff sounds like a good idea to me - I hate people who leave as soon as the other side gets a node or scores a point or does anything that threatens certain victory. Yes choice is great, and choices have CONSEQUENCES. Wanna be selfish and disdain 'the social contract'? Then eat the 15 min timeout.

 

You could still add a vote-kick to regs. Just add a hidden debuff to the person initiating the vote which increases the time it takes before they can start another vote. Vote kick just now and then? You're fine. Try to troll with it and find you can't call for a kick for another, say, 30 minutes. I'd even tie it to your legacy so that trolls can't simply switch toons and try again.

[TrixxieTriss]

You could still add a vote-kick to regs. Just add a hidden debuff to the person initiating the vote which increases the time it takes before they can start another vote. Vote kick just now and then? You're fine. Try to troll with it and find you can't call for a kick for another, say, 30 minutes. I'd even tie it to your legacy so that trolls can't simply switch toons and try again.

 

There already is a vote to kick in regs. So I don’t see what your point is?

[JediMasterAlex]

There already is a vote to kick in regs. So I don’t see what your point is?

 

And it functions the exact same way. So it can't be abused in regs. You can always respawn and go attack someone to remove the vote. It's only useful to remove people that are actually afk in a corner or something.

 

But in ranked, people wait until you're dead to kick, and they usually have someone on the other team sit in stealth so that the round goes long enough for the kick to go through.

Edited July 25, 2020 by JediMasterAlex