Conquest lost its shape and purpose

[Tofu_Shark]

Oh, you mean just like how the newer players enforced their will on the game, getting things like:

• Choosing your advanced class forced at character creation
  
• Removing the related "choose your advanced class" mission chain
  
• Taking away companions' unique abilities
  
• Getting rid of flashpoint couriers
  
• Getting rid of bonus series breadcrumb NPCs
  
• Getting rid of all heroic mission turn-in conversations
  
• Getting rid of some of the heroic mission NPCs and in-turn the heroic mission pickup conversations
  
• Getting rid of some exploration and bonus missions that really added to the immersion of worlds
  
• Making the game so easy you can basic attack through the whole damn story so when you want to do group content, you're completely clueless and a liability to the team
  
• Getting rid of iconic class abilities
  
• Gating all ops to level 70 so they can't be done in story sequence anymore
  

 

Amongst a litany of other stupid, unnecessary changes that either changed things that didin't drastically impact play, seriously reduced immersion, or could've been approached a different way than how they were addressed so that there could've been a compromise between what the different playstyles wanted instead of just catering to one and alienating the other?

 

So yeah, I can understand why OP is miffed about the Conquest changes. There has been a set of players in this game that have been imposing their will upon everyone since the Great Dumbing Down of 4.0.

 

 

Regarding Conquest, the only changes I want are an option to not participate, so the White Acute Module is not rendered moot for players that want to take the slow level path and the ability to suppress the notification in the UI editor. Conquest has been dumbed down greatly, nearly to the point of "push button, get conquest rewards," but I'm not sure what could be done short of forcing guilds to compete with each other based on size, similar to boxing weight classes and making Conquest legacy-wide again.

 

Some thoughts to consider on the matter:

https://gq-game-mods.blogspot.com/2020/05/swtor-conquest-recommendations.html

Edited May 25, 2020 by Tofu_Shark

[Darev]

I'm not sure there's anything that anyone can say that would change the course of this thread one way or the other.

I can't believe this thread hasn't been shut down already. There has come a point in every single previous super stupid long thread where one poster is trying to ice skate uphill that it just gets shut down.

Is this one not there yet?

Why spend the energy on this particular hill?

[Ylliarus]

I'm not sure there's anything that anyone can say that would change the course of this thread one way or the other.

I can't believe this thread hasn't been shut down already. There has come a point in every single previous super stupid long thread where one poster is trying to ice skate uphill that it just gets shut down.

Is this one not there yet?

Why spend the energy on this particular hill?

 

Oh, this thread has passed that point a long time ago. I assume that this thread will be shut down eventually, as even the moderator team will see that the OP is taking it too far. Posters have tried arguing with him in a sensible and reasonable manner, but the OP is so obsessed with this own opinion that he refuses to listen to anything else. He claims to have provided proof, literally everyone on the forums has pointed out that his "evidence" is severely flawed and heavily biased. Sadly, the OP refuses to even consider anything else beyond his own opinion. He doesn't even consider the option that he is wrong, which poster after poster has tried to show him, that he is indeed wrong.

 

And apparently, if you are against what the OP says you belong to a clique that has it out for him. Because the OP doesn't realise that he is the one pushing people away with his attitude and inability to consider other people's opinions. The fact that people have put him on their ignore lists, is his own fault. The fact that people have turned against him so much in this thread, is because of his own stubborn attitude and refusal to debate reasonably. And yet even that the OP fails to understand and instead seeks blame within others, thinking they have formed some sort of secret clique against him.

 

Which only shows once more, how badly this thread needs mod intervention.

Edited May 25, 2020 by Ylliarus

[Stradlin]

Oh, you mean just like how the newer players enforced their will on the game, getting things like:

• Choosing your advanced class forced at character creation
  
• Removing the related "choose your advanced class" mission chain
  
• Taking away companions' unique abilities
  
• Getting rid of flashpoint couriers
  
• Getting rid of bonus series breadcrumb NPCs
  
• Getting rid of all heroic mission turn-in conversations
  
• Getting rid of some of the heroic mission NPCs and in-turn the heroic mission pickup conversations
  
• Getting rid of some exploration and bonus missions that really added to the immersion of worlds
  
• Making the game so easy you can basic attack through the whole damn story so when you want to do group content, you're completely clueless and a liability to the team
  
• Getting rid of iconic class abilities
  
• Gating all ops to level 70 so they can't be done in story sequence anymore
  

 

Amongst a litany of other stupid, unnecessary changes that either changed things that didin't drastically impact play, seriously reduced immersion, or could've been approached a different way than how they were addressed so that there could've been a compromise between what the different playstyles wanted instead of just catering to one and alienating the other?

 

So yeah, I can understand why OP is miffed about the Conquest changes. There has been a set of players in this game that have been imposing their will upon everyone since the Great Dumbing Down of 4.0.

 

 

Regarding Conquest, the only changes I want are an option to not participate, so the White Acute Module is not rendered moot for players that want to take the slow level path and the ability to suppress the notification in the UI editor. Conquest has been dumbed down greatly, nearly to the point of "push button, get conquest rewards," but I'm not sure what could be done short of forcing guilds to compete with each other based on size, similar to boxing weight classes and making Conquest legacy-wide again.

 

Some thoughts to consider on the matter:

https://gq-game-mods.blogspot.com/2020/05/swtor-conquest-recommendations.html

 

 

Yeah there is something to be said about polishing something until all edges and texture disappear. You could def see the new conq patch as another roadsign on such path. Certainly for everybody who doesn't bring tons of chars to target, the new conq is quite irrelevant now. If you play 1-3 characters a week or something and aren't inolved with helping a guild grow/win, the conq system isn't any more relevant or meaningful than legacy xp bar. For such players, It is now utterly diminished and trivialized as content. For people who play very few chars, it is basically like reaching a new renown level, nothing more. For those wanting to bring tons of conq in, situation is very different. For them, system is far from irrelevant - its just broken. Tthere are now loads of various new objectives available.Almost all of them stacked to corner of one single playstyle.

 

Gonna check that blogpost on the matter later.

 

Updated OP with a new " chapter" - This one about Diminishing returns. Added mentions about massive difference between amounts of daily objectives available to OP.(planetary mission running is a playstyle that has up to one hundred daily repeatables available every week! No other activity has even 10% of that on regular basis! )

Edited May 25, 2020 by Stradlin

[Baldrix]

Added mentions about massive difference between amounts of daily objectives available to OP.(planetary mission running is a playstyle that has up to one hundred daily repeatables available every week! No other activity has even 10% of that on regular basis! )

 

That would be logical if that is the part that is played the most by most people. Can't very well have 5 missions available to thousands of players in the same area.

 

All that you prove here is that your preferred playstyle is niche at best and doesn't warrant extra development.

 

I think you just solved your conundrum here.

[Stradlin]

That would be logical if that is the part that is played the most by most people. Can't very well have 5 missions available to thousands of players in the same area.

 

 

I'm not sure what you are trying to say. Virtually all multiplayer content is instanced. Huge portion of planetary heroics are instanced too. When there are plenty of people doing open world stuff on the same planet, game opens a new instance of that entire planet.

 

I'm not campaigning for removal of these million planetary objectives. They aren't gonna do that. Just asking - all other playstyles - to get something that makes them at least feel part of the same conquest system.

 

As soon as your preferred playstyle started earning sick amounts of conq, you turned to a gatekeeper campaigning - against- any other playstyle getting the same opportunity. This particular..corner of the picure I'll never understand. What on earth do you have to lose here?

 

 

Deciding which activities to reward with conquest and which not makes sense in a world where EA literally needs to mine physical Conquest Points from literal real world mine and then decide how to distribute this rare mineral in a good way. That isn't the case. As last patch shows, they are perfectly fine with individual targets and guild targets not meaning a thing anymore. So at least let people earn this sick conquest by playign the way they like..Instead of chaining everybody wanting to make over 400% more than they used to planetary missions.

Edited May 25, 2020 by Stradlin

[Baldrix]

I'm not sure what you are trying to say.

 

Try reading it again.

 

I'm not campaigning for removal of these million planetary objectives. They aren't gonna do that. Just asking - all other playstyles - to get something that makes them at least feel part of the same conquest system.

 

All the other parts actually WERE the conquest system. And now that they finally decided to give other types of players a chance also (probably because most activities was on the planets!) you are trying the victim routine to get it removed or nerfed to kingdom come. I know your type of people.. always the victim the very second someone else may get ahead.

 

As soon as your preferred playstyle started earning sick amounts of conq, you turned to a gatekeeper campaigning

 

I never got anything in all the years i played this game (off and on) because of how i play and never complained about it. If i want something and can afford it i'll BUY it, NOT BEG FOR IT OR DEMAND IT. Things are what they are, I knew conquest was a thing and even looked into it once. Turned out it wasn't for lowly solist like me. And now i get to enjoy this small perk 1-3 times every 5-7 days, and along comes The Complainer, The Victim, who needs to have all their rewards multiplied by 400% because imagine the PLEBS getting in on some action too for once.

 

What on earth do you have to lose here?

 

What do YOU have to loose from people min-maxing their game? Or maybe its just that people like me get to earn some perks now too?

 

Deciding which activities to reward with conquest and which not makes sense in a world where EA literally needs to mine physical Conquest Points from literal real world mine and then decide how to distribute this rare mineral in a good way. That isn't the case. As last patch shows, they are perfectly fine with individual targets and guild targets not meaning a thing anymore. So at least let people earn this sick conquest by playign the way they like..Instead of chaining everybody wanting to make over 400% more than they used to planetary missions.

 

How about you just get off your butt and start doing the work instead of begging/demanding for handouts?

[robertthebard]

I'm not going to look it up, but I'm pretty sure that PvP used to be infinitely repeatable, maybe it was x matches for the main reward? At any rate, how many "but people are just AFKing for Conquest" threads were there? So they make it where you have to win Ranked to get the main reward? Seems to me it's a case of "be careful what you wish for" more than anything else. They put the ball entirely in the player's court, and some players just can't handle that?

 

It also seems to me that there was a lot of flak about how PvP didn't have a lockout. Once you've done an Op, you're locked out for a week, where in PvP you could run the same content constantly, with no diminishing returns. The same is true with heroics. Daily Repeatable rewards are just that, Daily. So you do the content once, and the rest of your characters are locked out for the day, or can run it, with diminishing returns. So I'm starting to see that this is what this thread is really about: "I want to be able to sit on the fleet all day and make Conquest on x toons hitting the queue for PvP/GSF".

 

No? We already had that, and it was abused. It was, apparently, abused by people that just went AFK, or suicided in GSF, seems like that's been mentioned in this thread already. Maybe that's the bigger issue? I keep wanting to be guessing it's about the mats, but perhaps I was wrong, and it's about losing the ability to just AFKSuicide in all of the PvP content and still be able to make Conquest. Maybe one still can? I don't know, I've never set foot in a WZ, 1 2 3 GO was never my idea of PvP. I tried GSF when it first came out, but didn't care for it. But I've only ever seen this level of dedication to a cause when someone's EZ mode was removed.

[Stradlin]

^

OP has a section about diminishign returns now. Lets actually talk about them a bit. Basically, this is how it works: Spend 60-90 mins doing GSF or WZs. That's it. You've now ran out of daily repeatables and are stuck with an extremely modest infinitely repeatable. Planetary missions are daily, but you have up to one hundred of those. Have you -ever- ran out of them in a single day? Even if you do some pure, massive speedrun, you likely run out of gaming hours your day has befoe running out of daily repeatable planetary objectives. Meanwhile, somebody who has to rely on infinitely repeatable on GSF, Wzs or FPs will not have enough time in a server reset cycle to earn the conq somebody who cleared most planetaries manages in 4-5 hours.

 

 

 

I'm not going to look it up, but I'm pretty sure that PvP used to be infinitely repeatable,... maybe it was x matches for the main reward?

 

I don't know, I've never set foot in a WZ, 1 2 3 GO was never my idea of PvP. I tried GSF when it first came out, but didn't care for it. But I've only ever seen this level of dedication to a cause when someone's EZ mode was removed.

 

I'm glad you have so many strong opinnions about reward systems of different playstyles and activities you care or know nothing about. Certainly, it is imporetant to ensure stuff you don't know about, care about, enjoy or play won't get an increase in its rewards that'd make it comparable with things you do care about.

Edited May 25, 2020 by Stradlin

[Baldrix]

OP has a section about diminishign returns now. Lets actually talk about them a bit. Basically, this is how it works: Spend 60-90 mins doing GSF or WZs. That's it. You've now ran out of daily repeatables and are stuck with an extremely modest infinitely repeatable. Planetary missions are daily, but you have up to one hundred of those. Have you -ever- ran out of them in a single day? Even if you do some pure, massive speedrun, you likely run out of gaming hours your day has befoe running out of daily repeatable planetary objectives. Meanwhile, somebody who has to rely on infinitely repeatable on GSF, Wzs or FPs will not have enough time in a server reset cycle to earn the conq somebody who cleared most planetaries manages in 4-5 hours.

 

Its opportunity knocking on everyone's door and infinitely repeatable for infinite rewards.

 

All you have to do is get off your butt and do the work.

 

And i' m sorry you found out that some people not only DO the work but also ENJOY it.

 

Because lets face it... that is what is REALLY bugging you isn't it?

[Ylliarus]

Because lets face it... that is what is REALLY bugging you isn't it?

 

Yes, that's the problem the OP has. For some reason, he can't understand that having fun is the primary goal of playing a game. Min-maxing is not the goal, efficiency is not the goal, the goal of gaming is to have fun. From what I have gathered from the OP's previous posts, they seem to be angered by the fact that people are finally having fun while doing Conquests, because to him it's all about min-maxing, crunching numbers and being efficient.

 

Having fun while you play is the most important part of why you should bother picking up doing Conquests. It's about amusing yourself in your free time. You shouldn't be counting and calculating your min-maxes to get Conquests done the quickest and most efficient way. That has never been nor will it ever be the nature of Conquests. The nature of Conquests is having fun while playing the game and that finally fits the deal with the current system. You can play the game, do Conquests and have fun while doing it because you play the content that you actually enjoy.

 

Why the OP doesn't understand that, is beyond me.

[Stradlin]

Its opportunity knocking on everyone's door and infinitely repeatable for infinite rewards.

 

 

There is a finite amount of hours in a day.

 

You earn 57k or so conquest in 10-15 mins of work if you tour planetaries. It takes you 90 mins of work to do that via GSF or WZs or Fps. Get it? You have to work longer in all other content.

 

 

 

You earn around 200k conq in 100 mins of planetary missions. Do 100 mins of FPs, GSF, WZs and you are at 50k conq or so. Once you have done 100 mins of FPs, GSF, and WZs, you are typicaly pretty much done with daily objectives and rate with which you earn conq goes way down. Meanwhile, planetary tourist has at least half of his objectives left after 100 mins. Try speedrunning through 100 daily repeatables and see how ling it takes.You run out of playtime before you are done.

 

 

Maybe it'd help you if we put it this way:

I pay John 10 bux an hour for answering my phone. 8 hours a day Job. He makes 80 bux a day.

I pay Jim 3.3 bux an hour for answering my letters. It isn't an union jon

Edited May 25, 2020 by Stradlin

[OlBuzzard]

Yes, that's the problem the OP has. For some reason, he can't understand that having fun is the primary goal of playing a game. Min-maxing is not the goal, efficiency is not the goal, the goal of gaming is to have fun. From what I have gathered from the OP's previous posts, they seem to be angered by the fact that people are finally having fun while doing Conquests, because to him it's all about min-maxing, crunching numbers and being efficient.

 

Having fun while you play is the most important part of why you should bother picking up doing Conquests. It's about amusing yourself in your free time. You shouldn't be counting and calculating your min-maxes to get Conquests done the quickest and most efficient way. That has never been nor will it ever be the nature of Conquests. The nature of Conquests is having fun while playing the game and that finally fits the deal with the current system. You can play the game, do Conquests and have fun while doing it because you play the content that you actually enjoy.

 

Why the OP doesn't understand that, is beyond me.

 

I'm leaving this intact purposely … primarily because you are evidently correct. AND (for whatever reason) feels cheated .. preferring the older system ???

 

IMO... perhaps he feels like someone is getting to have more fun than he is... ??? And that bothers him ??

 

Some parts of this will change when the 2XP thing goes away. Undeniably... that will happen.

 

There might even be a few tweaks or additions to the new and (much better) system.

 

However, the team now has a solid point of reference that works well and can build on it. The Conquest system needs to stay.

 

To be perfectly honest: I really could have cared less about where I was at on a day by day basis with the older conquest system. If I got the conquest that week … cool (that was extra that I simply did not count on). Now I will actually take the time to call up the menu on the character I'm on and select what I want to work on !

 

Adding more stuff as the game continues to grow … That's just a BIGGER win/win for everyone.

 

(well … almost everyone !)

Edited May 25, 2020 by OlBuzzard

[xordevoreaux]

However, the team now has a solid point of reference that works well and can build on it.

I'm confident at this point that the avalanche of positive feedback will translate into the greater majority of 6.1.1 remaining intact.

[Baldrix]

Get it? You have to work longer in all other content.

 

Oh i get it allright.... its YOU that don't seem to understand.

 

I pay John 10 bux an hour for answering my phone. 8 hours a day Job. He makes 80 bux a day.

 

That is a nice opportunity for John. An easy job with a nice salary.

 

Unfortunately for John he i a SNOWFLAKE and insists he wants the 80 bucks but only if he can count your windows all day.

 

Get it?

[robertthebard]

I'm glad you have so many strong opinnions about reward systems of different playstyles and activities you care or know nothing about

 

...and here we are with the misconceptions yet again. "Not participating" does not equate with "don't know anything about". This, more than anything else, is why I disagree with your "assessment" of how the game works. It's not based on actual mechanics, it's based on your perception of them, and as we can see from this post right here, your perception is flawed, at best. Deliberately misleading, at worst.

 

So your arguments have been:

 

Well, that may be right, but you just haven't played long enough to understand...

 

Well, you don't know how it works.

 

Well you have no knowledge.

 

None of these are compelling, especially given the fact that I've been a Progression Raider, I have 28 toons with something like 23 of them at cap, and least 18 of them that have been at cap since before SoR, and have progressed to each new cap as it was introduced. None of this equates to lack of experience, or lack of knowledge, and then there's the fact that I actually read the forums. That you have to resort to these kinds of arguments demonstrates exactly why your arguments should be summarily ignored.

[robertthebard]

There is a finite amount of hours in a day.

 

You earn 57k or so conquest in 10-15 mins of work if you tour planetaries.

 

Once per day.

[Stradlin]

Once per day.

 

Well, yeah. Ovciously it doesn't stop at 57k. By the time you have 200.000 conquest exclusively via planetaries in one single day, you aren't even halfway done with once per day planetaries. You run out of playtime before you run out of daily repeatables. Look, maybe this will help getting the point across:

https://imgur.com/9GRp73o

Only stuff available every single week is included.

Edited May 25, 2020 by Stradlin

[robertthebard]

Well, yeah. Ovciously it doesn't stop at 57k. By the time you have 200.000 conquest exclusively via planetaries in one single day, you aren't even halfway done with once per day planetaries. You run out of playtime before you run out of daily repeatables. Look, maybe this will help getting the point across:

https://imgur.com/9GRp73o

Only stuff available every single week is included.

 

Obviously it does stop at once per day. No matter how convoluted your arguments get, a Once Daily reward for completing an Optional Objective only pays once per day. A once daily reward for completing a heroic mission only pays once per day. Guess what: It works that way for every single objective that is Once Daily, whether that's an Op, a FP, PVP, GSF or planetary mission. "But there's more x" is irrelevant. They all have the exact same restrictions on them, until or unless they fall under Infinitely Repeatable. Since the vast majority of them don't, you're outrage equates to "but I only want to do this, and they should be accommodating how limiting I am to myself". No, they shouldn't.

 

Contrary to the premise set out by your topic title, Conquest was always a means to encourage players to "step out of their comfort zones and try other content". This system merely takes that to the next level. In that regard it is actually conforming to exactly what it's "shape and purpose" were intended to be. So we can start off immediately with a fallacy in the very topic of the title. What you believe it to have been is also irrelevant, because what you believe it was is wrong. I have already asked how Crafting and KotFE/TET chapters fit into your premise, and you have skirted answering that, and I understand exactly why: "but my narrative".

[Stradlin]

Since the vast majority of them don't, you're outrage equates to "but I only want to do this, and they should be accommodating how limiting I am to myself". No, they shouldn't.

 

I talk about playstyles, you insist on turning it into a conversation about likes or dislikes of an individual player. Wish you could talk about playstyles too.

 

Additionally, isn't it funny how anyone whose outrage or desires equates to ""but I only want to do this, and they should be accommodating how limiting I am to myself" is actually doing - perfectly fine- in a situation where this someone loves doing planetary misisons all they erry day? Refuse to do anything else ever again and limit yourseldf exclusively to planetaries. You still make -awesome conquest- In fact, tis particular somebone prolly makes better conq than anyone who wastes time with anything besides planetaries.

..Which kinda brings us here:

 

 

Contrary to the premise set out by your topic title, Conquest was always a means to encourage players to "step out of their comfort zones and try other content". This system merely takes that to the next level.

 

I Kinda agree to a degree: Old Conq system used to do just this to a great degree. New system? Do anything besides planetaries and, in terms of how much/fast conq you earn, its almost waste of your time. Never do -anything- except planetaries ever again and you earn some awesome conq. New conq system rewards players who isolate themselves from all other content and just focus onn doing soloable planetaries all day erry day. Like that image link helpfully underlines, you got a hundred of daily repeatables at your disposal. You won't run out.

 

If you " isolate" yourself to muliplayer content and just spam FPs or GSF or WZs, you are there for other players. Healing or Tanking DPSing in their Ops and FP grps. Killing them in Warzones. Flying with and against them in GSF. And so on. You are helping that content to happen.You are making that content to happen. Not just for yourself but for all else just as well. You are part of other peoples experience. Isolate youeself in solo content and you are not there for anyone else. You are not making content happen for anyone but yourself.

Edited May 25, 2020 by Stradlin

[Psychopyro]

I've been avoiding this for a few days, but I just can't....

 

I don't see PvP or GSF players coming in here and complaining with you, which leads me to only 2 conclusions....

 

Either they've all left the game (which I seriously doubt)

or

They're playing in game and DON'T CARE.....

 

Sorry I'm just not seeing any huge outrage in game, on the forums, or even in troll town reddit. Right now it's like 3 people saying this sucks...

[Stradlin]

I've been avoiding this for a few days, but I just can't....

 

I don't see PvP or GSF players coming in here and complaining with you, which leads me to only 2 conclusions....

 

Either they've all left the game (which I seriously doubt)

or

They're playing in game and DON'T CARE.....

 

Sorry I'm just not seeing any huge outrage in game, on the forums, or even in troll town reddit. Right now it's like 3 people saying this sucks...

 

Yep, there are plenty of people who don't really care if virtrually all different playstyles this game has, their favorite activity included, are currently compltely borked in terms of conq. rewards given. I care:)

 

And also, to be fair, right now its like four people saying there is something in "Roughly equal rewards for all playstyles pls!" to argue, and 3 or 4 people who seek to control the conversation and these forums by repeatedly asking for everybody to to put me on ignore and cast me out of the community completely in a wider sense. Because they don't like what I have to say about game mechanics.

Edited May 25, 2020 by Stradlin

[Baldrix]

Isolate youeself in solo content and you are not there for anyone else. You are not making content happen for anyone but yourself.

 

I play solo exclusively because reasons. I buy and sell on the GTN and support this game with two subscriptions whenever i play and stuff i buy from the Cartel Market.

 

But at this point i'm not at all surprised you consider yourself raised high above the PLEBS. Your utter dismay over people suddenly having access to the perks you thought were exclusively for you and yours says it all.

 

Do the work mate... you get the same opportunity as everyone else. Drop the victim routine.

[Tofu_Shark]

This is a witchhunt. That list that OP presented clearly illustrates there is something out of whack here.

[DarthAlastor]

This is a witchhunt. That list that OP presented clearly illustrates there is something out of whack here.

 

Which list are you talking about? The one that he keeps changing every time someone proves his argument is flawed?