All the systems for 6.0 seem unappealing. Bioware you need to pay attention.

[jimmorrisson]

Also there lots more grind than now, even for crafting, which is completely stupid

 

I’m sure the story and content will probably be good. But if those systems surrounding the content are bad, it doesn’t matter how good the content is, people will leave again like they did in 5.0 if the rest of the experience isn’t enjoyable.

 

 

Also there lots more grind than now, even for crafting, which is completely stupid

people will leave again like they did in 5.0 if the rest of the experience isn’t enjoyable.

 

Going by Ossus and Dantooine and what is known by 6.0, EA's end-game subscribe-to-grind whaling scheme will continue. Remaining whales will be bled dry only leaving Role Players as the game's last survivors.

 

Everything is working as intended.

Edited September 2, 2019 by jimmorrisson

[Celise]

If you haven’t downloaded the PTS, please go do it. The more feedback they get the better. There are things that aren’t too bad....getting gear off every boss....there are things that are bad.....There is RNG on whether the drop is even in you class....much less your spec..... no gear has dropped for me that have mods so I can’t upgrade the moddable gear I purchased.

 

Renown is slower than command.

 

Right now though not everything is dripping gear so have to keep running hammer station when my raid team isn’t there.

 

Conquest is about the same speed, but you now have to get 50k. I got 29k in a bout an hour doing a few heroines and in GF Hanner station. So it is Decoteau slower, but still able to be done on multiple toons.

 

Don’t just listen to everyone else, get in and test for yourself.

 

Reporting issues has never been my strong point in any game where it is needed, so i don't know what use i'd be out in PTS which is why i'm not into it. Can't really say that it would be worth the effort. Still, i do agree as getting as many on as possible to cast as wider net as possible to catch as many issues as possible. The rest is on Bioware.

[JediQuaker]

Bioware you need to pay attention (to me!).

Poor Trixie - never happy.

Nobody at BW ever listens to you.

[Rolodome]

Not sure why some of you are making this personal. So she compares it to WoW classic sometimes and talks about how she's probably going to leave.

 

Who gives a ****. What matters is the substance of the issues and she and plenty of others have and are giving specifics on that.

 

They put the stuff on PTS early this time precisely because they screwed up so royally last time in how stuff was designed. They extended the release date by like a month already because they weren't even close to ready, apparently. Making sure they know what we think is off is the entire point. Insisting we won't know for sure how things will be until it's released is the height of pointless. Stuff is on PTS so that our feedback will impact how it looks on release. If you're going to make the "we won't know until it's out" argument, how about instead go on PTS and then weigh in on the issues people have brought up and are discussing on the PTS forum. Don't act like we're completely in the dark as to the direction things are heading in.

 

We're all on the same team here and want 6.0 to be a success (one would hope anyway). Attacking people over feedback given just makes it harder for BW to sort through and figure out what people are saying about the substance of features.

[DzastinBiberi]

Before you buy your gear pieces with set bonuses in it, you can't see the stats, 'cause you get stats in your gear piece (mods, armoring etc) once you've bought your piece and this is RNG next level.

 

I did 5-6 M FP's HS, did KP SM, few wz's only to get around 600 Tech pieces (new currency for the gear) and 1 piece requires 1500 Tech pieces + 1m credits..

 

Your inventory cap for new currency is 3000k (also a problem) but imagine how much hours you have to spend grinding 1500 Tech's only to get one piece, if you're lucky. Because the seller is also RNG.

 

If the current state that is on PTS goes LIVE, they can shut this game for real, 'cause nobody is gonna spend the next 6 months gearing one char. If you think Ossus was bad, wait until you see this, Ossus is a baby gearing system compared to this one.

 

Feels like Ben RNG 2.0

[sharkfishman]

Personally, I feel like 6.0 is going to be a glorified attempt to imitate every system in Warframe, except making it much less fun, more grindy and more frustrating. Every proposed change is present in Warframe, yet somehow there it's fun while this just sounds like bore-city to me.

 

I dislike the fact we're losing stats and gear bonuses for others that seem less-than-exciting. It feels like a massive added grind for rewards that aren't proportionately impactful. It especially makes me laugh how much RNG they're adding, as if they don't remember the days of dropped gear OPs runs where you were in there for 4 hours and walked out with nothing. Wheeee!

 

Now you get a Chance to get a set bonus piece, with a smaller chance that it's anything remotely useful to your class,

and a smaller chance that it's for the gear piece you're missing (arms, head, etc.), with an even smaller chance that it has stats related to your discipline, and even the supplementary systems designed to eliminate this RNG are RNG!!!

 

I'm pretty sure that's what players requested right? More RNG?

[TrixxieTriss]

It's not fun to me when you can gear yourself in 1 day or even 1 week. There is no point in the end-game if that's how fast you're expecting it.

 

You’ve missed my point. I suggest you go read the feed back threads on the PTS forum regarding the changes.

It’s not how fast you gear up or how grindy gearing up is. It’s about the system being put in place to gear, to craft and how and where to do it.

[TrixxieTriss]

Trixxie,

 

You're becoming the girl who cried wolf on threatening to leave. You've been saying it for months and that there will be a mass exodus. How about we wait until 6.0 is actually released before doom and gloom?

 

You haven't even participated, by your own admission, on the PTS. Neither have I. That's why I have kept my piehole shut.

 

So, if you're in the shoes of BW, whose posts would you value more? Your generic broadside against SWTOR while plugging WoW Classic, or the specific comments on the PTS forum? Do you really think this post is going to be the clarion wake up call to the devs to realize, "Oh, there's a PTS forum?"

 

Sorry to be snarky, I know you're passionate about this game, but I agree with Phal. Let's just chill a bit until the game is released. We already know there will be some bugs and balance issues. How can there not be with so many new variables added to the mix?

 

If you love WoW Classic so much, just go play it until release, which is 50 days away (but who's counting?). Don't become the rugby fan who attends a cricket match and proselytizes about how much better rugby is to play / watch.

 

Dasty

 

I’ve literally unsubbed. My sub ran out last week before the PTS went up. I’m only able to post till the cookie runs out. So I’m not sure how I’m crying wolf. And yes, I will be staying where I’ve gone and will look at 6.0 on my wife’s computer to evaluate it to see if I will return.

 

This thread was made to get Bioware and people who don’t read the PTS forum or go on the PTS to discuss what’s going on. You don’t need to go on the PTS to discuss the feed back people are giving. It’s very detailed and paints a very vivid picture of the situation.

 

I see lots of responses to my OP from people who’ve obviously not read any of the feed back threads in the PTS section. I would suggest everyone read them and then discuss the situation between you all (as I won’t be able to in a few days). You don’t have to agree with my point of view, I just want you to all read about and discuss the changes. If you then all feel they are the changes you want, then so be it and I’m wrong. But I have a feeling that many people will find they aren’t the sort of changes they are expecting or want.

Edited September 2, 2019 by TrixxieTriss

[TrixxieTriss]

Not sure why some of you are making this personal. So she compares it to WoW classic sometimes and talks about how she's probably going to leave.

 

Who gives a ****. What matters is the substance of the issues and she and plenty of others have and are giving specifics on that.

 

They put the stuff on PTS early this time precisely because they screwed up so royally last time in how stuff was designed. They extended the release date by like a month already because they weren't even close to ready, apparently. Making sure they know what we think is off is the entire point. Insisting we won't know for sure how things will be until it's released is the height of pointless. Stuff is on PTS so that our feedback will impact how it looks on release. If you're going to make the "we won't know until it's out" argument, how about instead go on PTS and then weigh in on the issues people have brought up and are discussing on the PTS forum. Don't act like we're completely in the dark as to the direction things are heading in.

 

We're all on the same team here and want 6.0 to be a success (one would hope anyway). Attacking people over feedback given just makes it harder for BW to sort through and figure out what people are saying about the substance of features.

 

Thank you for understanding what I’m trying to say

[Lhancelot]

Before you buy your gear pieces with set bonuses in it, you can't see the stats, 'cause you get stats in your gear piece (mods, armoring etc) once you've bought your piece and this is RNG next level.

 

I did 5-6 M FP's HS, did KP SM, few wz's only to get around 600 Tech pieces (new currency for the gear) and 1 piece requires 1500 Tech pieces + 1m credits..

 

Your inventory cap for new currency is 3000k (also a problem) but imagine how much hours you have to spend grinding 1500 Tech's only to get one piece, if you're lucky. Because the seller is also RNG.

 

If the current state that is on PTS goes LIVE, they can shut this game for real, 'cause nobody is gonna spend the next 6 months gearing one char. If you think Ossus was bad, wait until you see this, Ossus is a baby gearing system compared to this one.

 

Feels like Ben RNG 2.0

 

Finally a complaint with details to their complaint, ty. (lol I didn't want to be bothered with PTS or the PTS forums so this post was quite informative for me.)

 

If they make bolster make gears irrelevant in WZs then I won't give a **** what they choose to do with their PVE crap. If BW thinks people want a nausea-inducing grind for gears, and they think that encourages more play time from players they are idiots but, fine that's their choice, too.

 

I just want to PVP when I feel like it without having gear gaps cause unfair matches. If they don't want to make a way for people to gear up their toons for PVP easily, then just be sure bolster evens the play field.

 

Story-mode players and RPers who are looking for a Star Wars themed Sims will be the last to stay on SWTOR at this rate, though.

 

It's like BW reads a secret forum of influencers that know nothing of what would improve this game, in fact it seems the very opposite of what ought to be done development-wise is done.

[TrixxieTriss]

Before you buy your gear pieces with set bonuses in it, you can't see the stats, 'cause you get stats in your gear piece (mods, armoring etc) once you've bought your piece and this is RNG next level.

 

I did 5-6 M FP's HS, did KP SM, few wz's only to get around 600 Tech pieces (new currency for the gear) and 1 piece requires 1500 Tech pieces + 1m credits..

 

Your inventory cap for new currency is 3000k (also a problem) but imagine how much hours you have to spend grinding 1500 Tech's only to get one piece, if you're lucky. Because the seller is also RNG.

 

If the current state that is on PTS goes LIVE, they can shut this game for real, 'cause nobody is gonna spend the next 6 months gearing one char. If you think Ossus was bad, wait until you see this, Ossus is a baby gearing system compared to this one.

 

Feels like Ben RNG 2.0

 

This is exactly how I see it too and is why I made the thread.

 

And it’s not just the gearing. Anyone who likes or enjoys crafting is in for one massive shock when they realise crafting will be just as big of a grind as gearing.

On the PTS it takes 60 mins to run a crew skill mission on a lvl 10 comp or 20 mins on a lvl 50 comp.

As a comparison, it takes between 7-8 mins on a lvl 50 at the moment on live and 20-30mins on a lvl 10.

 

And people, it’s not just gear grind or I would have made the title about gear grind. It’s about ALL the “systems” being changed or implemented.

 

I can’t say this enough, I love this game, I want it to succeed. The fact that I’ve properly unsubbed for the first time in 8 years says a lot about the state of it and my feelings about the changes on the PTS.

If I didn’t care, I wouldn’t have bothered to make this thread. I want you guys to be as passionate and discuss what’s happening with Bioware, If you are not aware of what’s going on, then you are enabling Bioware to make the same stupid mistakes again.

 

For all that’s holy, if any of you care about this game, go and find out what’s going on and fight to make sure Bioware don’t make the same mistakes.

Edited September 2, 2019 by TrixxieTriss

[TrixxieTriss]

Finally a complaint with details to their complaint, ty. (lol I didn't want to be bothered with PTS or the PTS forums so this post was quite informative for me.)

 

Dude, it takes like 15-20 mins to read the relevant PTS threads regarding the system changes. It’s not like trying to read through all the class stuff (which can hurt your head).

Finding out about the drop, the new vendor, the currency and crafting is relatively easy to digest because they have their own seperate thread.

 

These are the relevant threads that have to do with the “systems” I’m trying to highlight.

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=967719

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=967717

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=967714

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=967725

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=967718

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=967773

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=967774

[Raansu]

I’ve been reading the PTS feed back and keeping updated on what’s happening on the PTS.

 

All the new gearing, lvling, Bolster (pvp), crafting costs, RNG drops and some of class changes are completely unappealing to me and it would seem to many others on the PTS feed back forums. (I suggest everyone have a read through). Also there lots more grind than now, even for crafting, which is completely stupid

 

I’m sure the story and content will probably be good. But if those systems surrounding the content are bad, it doesn’t matter how good the content is, people will leave again like they did in 5.0 if the rest of the experience isn’t enjoyable.

 

I really hope Bioware are REALLY listening to the constructive feed back being given to them on the PTS and not paying it lip service. Just about everything needs major changes to it (which isn’t a good sign).

 

At this point, I won’t be resubbing (even to get the new race). I want to come back and have fun, not work harder than the game is now (which is partly why I’ve left).

I’m sure I’m not alone feeling like this or with this assessment.

 

Bioware please, please don’t destroy the game again like you did for 5.0. I don’t think it can survive another horrible expansion (due to the systems you introduce). The playing systems are the foundation for the great content to sit on. If the foundations are weak, it won’t matter how good the content is if the game play systems make people leave again.

 

If this is “Play your way”, then play your way is a mistruth. “Play your way” will become a meme for changing to another game.

 

Honestly these developers confuse me. They repeat the same thing over and over like somehow something is going to change. At launch we had the RNG BS with the battlemaster bags. People hated it and they changed it and the gearing methods we had were up and down over the years but overall fine.

 

Like they should have known then and there never do RNG ever again (especially since 4.x they got the system almost perfect for pve and pvp with legacy warzone comms and an easy to follow token drop in raids for pve). 5.x and galactic command comes around.....heavy backlash and pure hatred for the system and now they have to spend time fixing because for some dumb reason they thought a heavy rng system like that was a good idea.....That time could have been spent on real content.

 

Now with this upcoming expansion they yet again have this weird affection for raw rng with "rng protections" that are actually MORE RNG. They have come up with a system that's WORSE than galactic command crates. Seriously BWA developers, what is wrong with ya'll? Is this EA's decision? Are you all being forced to do this nonsense? There's no way you all don't know that the majority absolutely hate such heavy handed rng after after 2 previous rng bag systems failing over the years. If we wanted korean mmo level grinding we'd go play those games. At this point its like EA just wants the game to be dead.

 

I just cant understand the thought process of the developers. A game that encouraged for years to play alts and a system that made it mostly easy to keep your alts geared up and suddenly they flip that on its head the last few years and continue to insist on this RNG garbage that no one wants. A system that forces you to stick to one toon for months at a time. This is just all around poor management and poor decision making.

Edited September 2, 2019 by Raansu

[TrixxieTriss]

Honestly these developers confuse me. They repeat the same thing over and over like somehow something is going to change. At launch we had the RNG BS with the battlemaster bags. People hated it and they changed it and the gearing methods we had were up and down over the years but overall fine.

 

Like they should have known then and there never do RNG ever again (especially since 4.x they got the system almost perfect for pve and pvp with legacy warzone comms and an easy to follow token drop in raids for pve). 5.x and galactic command comes around.....heavy backlash and pure hatred for the system and now they have to spend time fixing because for some dumb reason they thought a heavy rng system like that was a good idea.....That time could have been spent on real content.

 

Now with this upcoming expansion they yet again have this weird affection for raw rng with "rng protections" that are actually MORE RNG. They have come up with a system that's WORSE than galactic command crates. Seriously BWA developers, what is wrong with ya'll? Is this EA's decision? Are you all being forced to do this nonsense? There's no way you all don't know that the majority absolutely hate such heavy handed rng after after 2 previous rng bag systems failing over the years. If we wanted korean mmo level grinding we'd go play those games. At this point its like EA just wants the game to be dead.

 

I just cant understand the thought process of the developers. A game that encouraged for years to play alts and a system that made it mostly easy to keep your alts geared up and suddenly they flip that on its head the last few years and continue to insist on this RNG garbage that no one wants. A system that forces you to stick to one toon for months at a time. This is just all around poor management and poor decision making.

 

It’s ground hog development principle. They are stuck in a loop and never learn the lessons of old. Even when they fully admit in the past that players dont like something and they change it, a year(s) later they seem to forget and implement it again.

 

If I had the time, I would go search for all those yellow post where they’ve out right admitted player don’t want to play a certain way with certain systems. There is a very distinct one that comes to mind around 3.0 where they say pvp gearing was too slow and players just want to play pvp and not grind gear. They ended up perfecting the gearing in 4.0 and then threw it out the window in 5.0.

 

The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result.

 

It really makes you wonder if there is any rational or logic driving Bioware or is the company institutionally insane.

 

Or, are we all insane for expecting a different result this time?

 

Remember everyone, this studio published ideas from Ben “RNG is exciting” Irving in 5.0 and then had to back track by 5.3 because people were exiting the game in a big way.

They even had plenty of feed back from people in private testing well before 5.0 was released and they completely ignored them.

This is what scares me about 6.0. There is tonnes of feed back on how they are completely missing the mark on player expectations “yet again”. If we don’t speak up now, then we only have ourselves to blame if they go ahead with the systems.

But what scares me the most is even if we have a united player front, Bioware will ignore it all and move ahead with tiny changes to say they did listen and then the game dies next year when even more people leave than 5.0’s stupid systems.

I don’t want that to happen, I want 6.0 to breath life into the game, not be the final nail in the coffin. Sometimes I wonder if Bioware are intentionally trying to kill the game so they can move onto another project.

Edited September 2, 2019 by TrixxieTriss

[DzastinBiberi]

Finally a complaint with details to their complaint, ty. (lol I didn't want to be bothered with PTS or the PTS forums so this post was quite informative for me.)

 

If they make bolster make gears irrelevant in WZs then I won't give a **** what they choose to do with their PVE crap. If BW thinks people want a nausea-inducing grind for gears, and they think that encourages more play time from players they are idiots but, fine that's their choice, too.

 

I just want to PVP when I feel like it without having gear gaps cause unfair matches. If they don't want to make a way for people to gear up their toons for PVP easily, then just be sure bolster evens the play field.

 

Story-mode players and RPers who are looking for a Star Wars themed Sims will be the last to stay on SWTOR at this rate, though.

 

It's like BW reads a secret forum of influencers that know nothing of what would improve this game, in fact it seems the very opposite of what ought to be done development-wise is done.

 

I'm sorry to "crush your dreams" but bolster is lets say, weird.

 

For example, I run a jugg skank tank (dps mods) with zero defensive gear, mods etc, like zero, yet bolster gives me around 2k of defensive chance and around 800 shield. It basiclly gives me stats that I dont even have to start with.

 

The reason I started playing on PTS was a lack of information, so I wasn't lazy this time around and went to download it and test stuff. If you have any questions but you couldnt find the answers, just hit me up, I'll respond.

[DzastinBiberi]

This is exactly how I see it too and is why I made the thread.

 

And it’s not just the gearing. Anyone who likes or enjoys crafting is in for one massive shock when they realise crafting will be just as big of a grind as gearing.

On the PTS it takes 60 mins to run a crew skill mission on a lvl 10 comp or 20 mins on a lvl 50 comp.

As a comparison, it takes between 7-8 mins on a lvl 50 at the moment on live and 20-30mins on a lvl 10.

 

And people, it’s not just gear grind or I would have made the title about gear grind. It’s about ALL the “systems” being changed or implemented.

 

I can’t say this enough, I love this game, I want it to succeed. The fact that I’ve properly unsubbed for the first time in 8 years says a lot about the state of it and my feelings about the changes on the PTS.

If I didn’t care, I wouldn’t have bothered to make this thread. I want you guys to be as passionate and discuss what’s happening with Bioware, If you are not aware of what’s going on, then you are enabling Bioware to make the same stupid mistakes again.

 

For all that’s holy, if any of you care about this game, go and find out what’s going on and fight to make sure Bioware don’t make the same mistakes.

 

Same here, the only thing that kept me here are friends I've made over the years and the fact that this is Star Wars MMO. If it wasn't for that, I would have left this game years ago.

 

My sub runs out around December, so I'll have enough time to see the exp going live while being a sub, but if they copy/paste this system from PTS, I really can't see myself having a 2nd job. I do PVE and PVP and I always did grind for the best gear out there, but this sort of gearing progress is insane and it's probably made to keep the ppl subbed for a long time, 'cause you'll need months to just gear up one char.

 

What was concerning is the fact that even in 258/240 augs gear, Master Hammer Station was hard to the point that we wiped twice, like in every run.

 

I did Dxun SM OPS in 270 gear (258 mainhand, OH with 270 armoring and 258 mods) and it was a wipe fest, it literally felt like doing SnV HM but a little harder than that (I never did SnV NiM so I dont know how hard it is to compare it).

 

So when 6.0 comes, your 258 gear is gonna be useless, set bonus is gonna be gone once you hit 75 lvl, 'cause they did a "thing" where your old bonus (258) is gonna be there until 74 and it's gonna be gone when you hit 75 lvl, making your gear more or less, useless.

[Balameb]

Finally a complaint with details to their complaint, ty. (lol I didn't want to be bothered with PTS or the PTS forums so this post was quite informative for me.)

Its not that much reading. You can even read a few random post of each subject to get a picture.

 

I will give an example of why RNG is now worst than ever.

 

First, all filters that are supose to limit most of what you get are for your discipline are not working. This is probably a bug, but certainly a horrible one that makes testing even more of a PITA.

 

Now, remember 5.0. We had RNG crates. This crates were mostly very well limited to your discipline and there was ONE set bonus as target. Biggest problem of that was, slow earning of crates and no way to target specific piece.

Solution: Increase CXP gains and provide alternatives to solve the RNG by direct purchase specific pieces. UCs and Operation Unnassembleds pieces.

 

6.0

* Several different sets (lots of them useless). Like 4 to 6 per class and a high number of class neutral ones.

* Loot: RNG

* Crates: RNG

* Vendor 1: RNG (slot filtered)

* Vendor 2: Specific "set" with RNG stats and RNG stock (aka: "now you see me, now you don't").

* While there is no "fixed" tiers in renown levels, the progression of rating is in average by increments of 2. So from 268 to 306 we have like 19 tiers.

 

We basically have a pool of potential drops way bigger than 5.0, and all is RNG because even direct vendor has RNG that can make you wait WEEKS before you find what you need.

 

And to show another problem of this system: Because in order to get better gear you need to be wearing the best you have, this means you will be wearing watever shi* you got even if it has the wrong stats and you cannot even match 2 set bonus pieces. Another player brought this in PTS forums: since most gear from lower tier is not moddable, say goodbye to your fancy weapons for a while because if you use 252/258 modded one you will diminish your general item rating and so will the drops.

[Ardrossan]

People have mentioned before that BW doesn't listen to criticism prior to releasing whatever godawful mistake they're about to make. I take that as a given, so nothing you say before 6.0 comes out will matter. Nothing they say on the PTS forum will matter either, it's bug collecting.

 

What happens, what has always happened, is that BW releases something no one asked for or wanted, the forum goes up in flames, the invisible pie graph in BW's office shrinks as players unsub, making them realize that yes, players are unhappy with the changes, it's not just the vocal minority on the forum, and over the next several months, makes changes so that the expansion is playable and possibly even fun.

 

I have no reason to doubt it will be any different this time. And I don't really understand players like OP who've been around as long or longer than I have who think that BW will suddenly listen if we all jump on the PTS forum and take part in the conversation...but it certainly explains the burnout and the rush to go play a different game.

 

Note my intentions in making this post: I'm not saying "wait and see and you might be surprised". Nor am I saying "oh boy, RNG and endless grind? Sign me up!" I'm not even saying "will you haters give it a rest already? BW is perfect, periodt." I'm saying that Trixxie's quote about temporary insanity doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results? It's not just BW that applies to. So, go play some other game, come back in 6-10 months, and hopefully they'll have fixed all their blunders. But they won't begin fixing it until at least two weeks after release.

 

Personally, I'm not leaving. My sub expires about two weeks before 6.0 drops, so I'll probably sign up for another month to get the expansion, because I want the levels. I'll do ops with my guild, and I'll raise nearly forty characters sitting at 70 to 75, and I'll finish maxing crafting skills on each one and when all that's done I'll look into the expansion. I've got lots to keep me busy until they start making changes, but it's perfectly fine to sit that period out. And it's fine to keep doing what you're doing, but...don't be surprised if some of us aren't jumping at the chance to halt this sudden crisis. It's re-arranging deck chairs on the Titanic at this point.

Edited September 3, 2019 by Ardrossan

[DzastinBiberi]

^

 

I've stopped at your line saying "I'll do OPS.."

 

Have you tried Dxun SM?

 

Another thing I forgot to add about the Kai gear vendor, beside his RNG offers, he's also not available on the weekend's, you can click on him, but that's about it.

 

Other vendor is cheaper and its there all the time, all days in the week, but it sells literally RNG gear, like you dont even know anything about the pieces you're buying. Imagine it as gear token's, it's there, it costs "money" but thats all you know about it. When you buy it, then you get the stats and no set bonus ofc. If your gear is 258, that vendor will give you 268 or 270 green gear piece which isnt modable at all.

 

Other problem, what was mentioned above, is that you gotta have the best gear rating you can get your hands on, on your toon, in order to get slightly better gear (got 270 gear on my toon, cxp crate gave me 272 blue pants with random stats and no set bonus).

 

In other words, yeah, Charles was right in their livestream when he said that they aren't gonna make the same mistake like they did with the Ossus gearing, they just made it worse, completely RNG.

Edited September 3, 2019 by DzastinBiberi

[AlaricSevGirl]

Yes, the Care Bears will get you. They'll probably come after me for this comment as well. (And it won't be the first time. )

 

That's a stupid *** comment because not everyone who doesn't like gear grind is a care bear.

 

BW should have done tokens just like they did in the original PvP (don't know if they still do that because I don't PvP anymore.) I remember the first time I earned enough in PvP to get my first set of PvP gear. I didn't have to keep playing because I never got what I wanted. I kept playing to earn my tokens to purchase my gear. I always received rewards that were useful to me. Actually, wasn't OPs the same way originally. I don't remember.

 

My friends left the game because it became a solo game not because of gear grind though. Very few people wanted that but BW in their infinite wisdom thought that they should cater to the few and not the many. They made the game too damned easy. You used to have to do every quest on a planet to get to the proper level for the next planet and then do the heroics if XP didn't get you there. There was no such thing as command. It was the game, brutal, honest, difficult and subscriber based. People started leaving when it went from subscriber only to FTP. They continued to leave because of every assinine thing Bioware did and it all cummulated with going to a solo campaign where you couldn't get help even if you needed it. How many people wanted that, fifty, hundred max? People always wanted to play together. BW ruined the fun that was PvP (yeah even the cursing out of other players and telling them that they are asses for calling you out when you're a healer and worrying about keeping the tank alive and not some dpser who can't stay out of trouble, lol) BW ruined the fun that was having your group of 4 friends all leveling the planet at the same time, being able to play together, plan for game nights together. Those were the days my friends. We thought they'd never end....but they did. Now my friends and I play Wildlands together because SWTOR is too damned easy for everything up to the solo stuff and well the solo stuff is...solo.

 

Enough of my soapbox. I loved what SWTOR was in the good old days. I still play now because even though there is only one member of my friends that plays occasionally, I do love the content pre KOTFE and I'm hoping that post KOTET, they will go back to the everyone can play together, make the game harder format.

Edited September 3, 2019 by AlaricSevGirl

[Raansu]

People have mentioned before that BW doesn't listen to criticism prior to releasing whatever godawful mistake they're about to make. I take that as a given, so nothing you say before 6.0 comes out will matter. Nothing they say on the PTS forum will matter either, it's bug collecting.

 

And this is what is scaring a lot of us. I came back for onslaught because what they originally talked about sounded interesting and I wanted to see the new story as well. If this current situation goes live though? I'm permanently done with this game. I will not come back.

[Ardrossan]

^

 

I've stopped at your line saying "I'll do OPS.."

 

Well, that's okay, you made it pretty far into my post before deciding it wasn't worth your time. That you stopped at that particular point seems pretty silly though. Like, what from my post has given you the idea that I care about doing max level content with the best gear possible? I haven't even bothered to grind masterwork crystals at this stage. So 6.0 is going to be an RNG grind with irrational systems? Gee, that would seem to be exactly what I suggested in the post. And that it's unavoidable.

 

And this is what is scaring a lot of us. I came back for onslaught because what they originally talked about sounded interesting and I wanted to see the new story as well. If this current situation goes live though? I'm permanently done with this game. I will not come back.

 

Okay then, but it kinda feels like 5.0 to me. It's a disaster that no one asked for, and BW will slowly make changes afterwards when they notice sub numbers dropping, and not a second before. In other words, it's not a new phenomenon. So it's a bit odd to me. The one time BW listened to feedback beforehand was for the Rishi SH. The one exception to the rule. And idk, I guess people saw that, or they saw BW's latest attempt at communication efforts, and they thought "oh boy, they're listening to us this time!"

Edited September 3, 2019 by Ardrossan

[kodrac]

I came to the realization a while back, around the the time they announced the new gear level prior to Ossus release, that grinding for gear is the only trick they have left in the bag. With this new expansion, they try to spin it as play your way and we're going to drop tons more gear - yay!. But in reality it's more garbage to plow through for minimal or no gain due to heavy RNG. I don't believe any of the spin that Eric puts out and I don't believe Keith has any sort of plan or a clue. He's a one-trick pony. I fully expect Charles' story to be a glorified flashpoint and take all of two hours to complete. My 6 month sub expires this month. I was going to try it out before deciding on renewing but it got pushed back to October. At this point in time, with all I've read, I have no interest in renewing. There are better games for my time coming out around the same time or before, and better uses for that sub money. Edited September 3, 2019 by kodrac

[kodrac]

Okay then, but it kinda feels like 5.0 to me. It's a disaster that no one asked for, and BW will slowly make changes afterwards when they notice sub numbers dropping, and not a second before. In other words, it's not a new phenomenon. So it's a bit odd to me. The one time BW listened to feedback beforehand was for the Rishi SH. The one exception to the rule. And idk, I guess people saw that, or they saw BW's latest attempt at communication efforts, and they thought "oh boy, they're listening to us this time!"

 

It took them a year to fix the disaster that was 5.0 gearing which was a year they couldn't do anything else, except class nerfs, which in turn made the playerbase anxious, to say the least, about content droughts. Another year later and here we are, after just one whole month of promised increased communication by the way, and we are finally getting an expansion and they're going to do it all over again? It'll take them a year, or more given how slow they are lately, to fix 6.0. Oh boy! Where do I sign up?

Edited September 3, 2019 by kodrac

[Lhancelot]

Its not that much reading. You can even read a few random post of each subject to get a picture.

 

I will give an example of why RNG is now worst than ever.

 

First, all filters that are supose to limit most of what you get are for your discipline are not working. This is probably a bug, but certainly a horrible one that makes testing even more of a PITA.

 

Now, remember 5.0. We had RNG crates. This crates were mostly very well limited to your discipline and there was ONE set bonus as target. Biggest problem of that was, slow earning of crates and no way to target specific piece.

Solution: Increase CXP gains and provide alternatives to solve the RNG by direct purchase specific pieces. UCs and Operation Unnassembleds pieces.

 

6.0

* Several different sets (lots of them useless). Like 4 to 6 per class and a high number of class neutral ones.

* Loot: RNG

* Crates: RNG

* Vendor 1: RNG (slot filtered)

* Vendor 2: Specific "set" with RNG stats and RNG stock (aka: "now you see me, now you don't").

* While there is no "fixed" tiers in renown levels, the progression of rating is in average by increments of 2. So from 268 to 306 we have like 19 tiers.

 

We basically have a pool of potential drops way bigger than 5.0, and all is RNG because even direct vendor has RNG that can make you wait WEEKS before you find what you need.

 

And to show another problem of this system: Because in order to get better gear you need to be wearing the best you have, this means you will be wearing watever shi* you got even if it has the wrong stats and you cannot even match 2 set bonus pieces. Another player brought this in PTS forums: since most gear from lower tier is not moddable, say goodbye to your fancy weapons for a while because if you use 252/258 modded one you will diminish your general item rating and so will the drops.

 

 

I'm sorry to "crush your dreams" but bolster is lets say, weird.

 

For example, I run a jugg skank tank (dps mods) with zero defensive gear, mods etc, like zero, yet bolster gives me around 2k of defensive chance and around 800 shield. It basiclly gives me stats that I dont even have to start with.

 

The reason I started playing on PTS was a lack of information, so I wasn't lazy this time around and went to download it and test stuff. If you have any questions but you couldnt find the answers, just hit me up, I'll respond.

 

 

 

Thanks to you both for not being sentinels over forum information, and demanding others go check PTS themselves. I used to do it myself, I just don't have the time or patience to mess with it now, no time IRL truth be told.

 

It's sad to me that SWTOR is going the route of punishing alts, again from what I understand anyway. I have no idea why they keep shoveling this playstyle down people's throats. All it did was push me off the game and lose interest in playing as much as I once did. When they made gearing alts a chore I slowed my gameplay because I just felt like, what's the point? I don't log in to just grind, grind, grind.

 

If the grind is endless, and you are forced to just chore away the whole time on the game, it's hard to enjoy the end result especially when you know you will probably not be able to get there when you have 10-20 alts you'd like to gear and PVP with (or PVE with) in top gears. This is my perspective, anyway from a fairly casual PVPer nowadays.

 

I think if they want PVE to have a drastic hardcore grind, they ought to just have PVE gearing be separate and allow PVPers to gear up faster with a different set of PVP gears. Then, they can keep the two different required playstyles separate from one another.

 

Typically PVPers I knew wanted to be able to gear up all their toons so none of them experience disadvantages due to gear gaps in the WZs. PVE players probably don't mind a harsh grind because "that's the point of PVE in MMOS!" But this is conjecture, at best. Maybe some PVE players would prefer the grind to be not be so harsh if they'd like to run top geared toons through PVE content? I don't know I never did PVE here.

 

Basically BW has made building the car more important than driving it at a top speeds and having fun with it once it's been built. Instead, BW thinks if they just keep players building cars constantly, it won't matter that there's little to no real new content. This is flawed and really short-sighted imo. I know from personal experience, I won't partake in a gearing system like this. There's just no point to it, for me.

 

It's hard to believe after all the input, feedback, and information available BW won't do this 6.0 right, I mean at this point they ought to have learned "lessons" from past expansions and what players like or don't like. I guess the best way to put it is they will "reap what they sow." If they do it right, well, they will enjoy success. If 6.0 is done poorly, then ultimately the game will suffer.

 

I hope that feedback is taken seriously on PTS for 6.0, and if it's really as bad as most have indicated, BW considers the feedback and makes the proper changes to improve it. I feel bad for the game, it really does deserve better than what it has been given by whoever has made the decisions over the years navigating SWTOR down the path it has been taken.