Getting hassled in the Jedi Temple

[IoNonSoEVero]

I feel like RP in a game like this is always a hard thing to balance. If someone sees NPCs of their faction being attacked, and in-character they would help them (and consider it evil to stand aside and allow them to be killed), then in a sense demanding them not to intervene is imposing something on that person, without their consent. But we are all in this game together, having impacts on each other's experiences even in PvE settings (as this thread shows). From a RP perspective or otherwise, we can't always ask or expect consent from everyone for everything action that has an impact on our experience. We just have to find a happy medium and be considerate towards each other.* So, for instance, if a RPer becomes aware that they'd be having a negative impact on your play, it could lead them to play a bit differently, even if that interferes somewhat with how they'd like to RP. If they're fair people, they yield a bit so you can have a reasonable experience.

 

I personally feel like there's a huge amount of handwaving we have to do when RPing in this game anyway. It's the only MMO I've played, and when I first tried it after lots of playing only single-player RPGs, the notion of NPCs that reappear after being killed was totally mindbending to me. That's not something that exactly promotes immersion, lol. So if anyone is terribly torn up by allowing NPCs to be mown down in front of them, I'd suggest the NPCs weren't really killed after all - sure look, there they are, a minute later!

 

*(Unfortunately I do think a lot relies on good will, and it's not always possible or fair to try to impose "good behaviour" on everyone. Some people, for example, will ninja mission objectives out from under the feet of people who've been waiting for them to respawn. Arguably that's "disrupting the normal flow of game play" or "interfering with another player's use of an EA Service." But I don't think we'd claim that's a breach of the ToS - it's just inconsiderate and rude. The "punishment" is people not liking the player, not a ban from the game. I'm not sure exactly where the line between rudeness and disruptiveness lies, to be honest. I just try to be considerate and hope most people do the same.)

 

It is. My toons wouldn't necessarily, in-character, run past someone from their faction being hurt. But it I think is where you do have to balance what your character would do with the realities of running around with a lot of other players. I don't think that in the PvE instances, players should be able to impede each other at all, TBH. I feel like it's a covert form of PvP and I'm not okay with that.

 

I think the difference between the ninjaing and this, too, is that in the case of ninjaing, the other player is going for the same objectives. I hate it and think it's very rude, but they are in fact trying to complete the same quests you are. In the case of people healing or otherwise getting involved with others' fights, there's no such shared goal and the only objective is to impede.

[LD_Little_Dragon]

 

I doubt, frankly, even a decent healer would be able to negate the damage output of an average DPS

 

You don't need the figures - just ask any healer who ques solo for regular pvp warzones. One dps can't really hurt you unless they get incredibly lucky with burst crits while you're stunned.

 

A lot of times even 2 dps can't get you, especially if they're only average. I've had 3 or more focusing me and survived, but those are just really bad players.

[Estelindis]

I think the difference between the ninjaing and this, too, is that in the case of ninjaing, the other player is going for the same objectives. I hate it and think it's very rude, but they are in fact trying to complete the same quests you are. In the case of people healing or otherwise getting involved with others' fights, there's no such shared goal and the only objective is to impede.

Thanks, that's a good point to distinguish between the two: competing to complete the same quest, vs. not.

 

I would just try to reiterate that people getting involved in fights may not actually intend to impede you at all, as difficult as it might be to believe. They may just be prioritizing their wish to RP over your wish to complete your goal. I'm not saying it's a nice or right thing to do. I can certainly see your argument that it's disrupting normal play. I'm just trying to make the point that, epistemologically, people's internal motivations can't be proven, so we can't know that "the only objective is to impede."

 

Practically I imagine this makes zero difference to you or anyone else being inconvenienced, but for me it's different, so maybe it's different for some other people too. If I believe people's intentions may not be bad then I don't experience the action as so hurtful. Once I see any possible other interpretation of something, it lessens the sting. Like, for instance, it used to bother me more if people would gather from nodes that I was fighting mobs to reach (as in, I attacked the mobs to get the node, then they showed up and "stole" it), but then I realized that they don't know if I even have that gathering skill. From their point of view, it's pointless for them to wait and see if I gather it, because I might not even be able to. (I mean now I just go for the node first and join my companion fighting the mobs once it's gathered, but whatevs.) And similar to mission objectives, sometimes one will wait politely "in the queue" and it turns out the other person wasn't on that mission right now - so, in the reverse situtation, if someone sneaks in and ninjas an objective, I tell myself "maybe they thought I mightn't be on the same mission." I'm sure it's only true some of the time, but it is true some of the time. And that helps me feel better. So I just offer this point of view, that people might play in this bothersome way for their own reasons, not intending anything bad to you, in case it might help you feel better too.

 

You don't need the figures - just ask any healer who ques solo for regular pvp warzones. One dps can't really hurt you unless they get incredibly lucky with burst crits while you're stunned.

 

A lot of times even 2 dps can't get you, especially if they're only average. I've had 3 or more focusing me and survived, but those are just really bad players.

Actually I queue solo for regular PvP as a healer reasonably often. It was actually that sort of experience that inspired the comment to which you replied. In 4v4, with me healing 3 dps, but the other team having 4 dps, I can bite the dust quite quickly (once my emergency "don't die" measures like teleport and immuno-bubble are depleted). Maybe that means I'm the bad player, but I do my best, and depending on the team results can be very different.

Edited December 17, 2018 by Estelindis

[Rion_Starkiller]

This is a tough one. I can see someone RP'ing their character in that area. I think healing the NPC's is going a bit too far though.

[Luier]

Can't believe this is even a discussion.

PVE server = don't mess with anyone, period.

That's what PvP servers are for.

 

I would report it non-stop till it is dealt with or they ban me for reporting it.

[sauceemynx]

Can't believe this is even a discussion.

PVE server = don't mess with anyone, period.

That's what PvP servers are for.

 

Agreed. I haven't consented to be a part of anyone else's RP world. Anyway, let's be honest: most people who RP tend to be very nice and respectful about it. The people doing this just enjoy annoying others.

[JennyFlynn]

That is obnoxious behavior and should be reported--let the devs decide whether to act upon it but at the very least bring it to their attention. As for the RP excuse, I'm not having it. Everyone is free to RP if they so desire but their right and freedom to RP shouldn't be something that causes hindrance for others. Healing NPCs because your poor little RP heart can't stomach the idea of your faction members getting killed, and thereby hindering another player's ability to complete quests, is not okay. Practise some awareness if you're doing open world RP and perhaps go with this novel idea of "you can't save them all"--throw on one heal then leave it alone.

 

Although I think in this instance the RP thing is a little far-fetched because it sounds, going by the OP, as though these players were actively following players of the other faction around with the sole purpose of interfering with their quests.

[darthscotty]

Seems to be a more common issue. Yesterday I was freeing the Jedi in the cages and was fighting a mob and had an imp player healing the mobs I was trying to kill. It was a pve instance so nothing I could do about it. Really annoying because you are interfering with my gameplay for no reason. If I was in the pvp instance I would not have cared, I expect that in the pvp instance, however, in a pve instance I should not have to deal with that level of garbage.

 

Gonna quote myself so anybody who missed it knows what I am talking about. I did not see it as RPing, I am not an RPer and never have been. RPing should involve both people agreeing to do some RPing, otherwise it is just one person being a jerk. I chalked it up to somebody being an *** and moved on with my day. However, I would love a Dev clarification on if this sort of situation is a reportable offense or not. I have no issue with people RPing, however, I do have an issue with people interfering with my gameplay, what happened to me was not RPing.

[well]

There will always be punks in games. Just like real life. If you felt it was enough bother then report it and let BW decide if they weren't following the EULA. That's their call. See that was easy.

[merovejec]

lol I didnt read the whole tread but just wanted to add thats its very very funny that you are able to heal the Jedi in the Temple and also Imps based on your faction, this leads to a lot of funny situations where the players are killed by these mobs (they are elie) since they are being healed

[Lium]

It's because I don't want you filthy imps desecrating the Jedi temple any more than it already is.

 

In all seriousness, when I first started doing the dailies, I felt like it was designed for a PvP instance. Pubs and imps are right next to each other killing Republic and Imperial NPCs. In my younger years, I'd totally be doing this on a PvP server.

 

Nowadays I just want to do my dailies in peace and logoff.

[Jdast]

That is obnoxious behavior and should be reported--let the devs decide whether to act upon it but at the very least bring it to their attention. As for the RP excuse, I'm not having it. Everyone is free to RP if they so desire but their right and freedom to RP shouldn't be something that causes hindrance for others. Healing NPCs because your poor little RP heart can't stomach the idea of your faction members getting killed, and thereby hindering another player's ability to complete quests, is not okay. Practise some awareness if you're doing open world RP and perhaps go with this novel idea of "you can't save them all"--throw on one heal then leave it alone.

 

Although I think in this instance the RP thing is a little far-fetched because it sounds, going by the OP, as though these players were actively following players of the other faction around with the sole purpose of interfering with their quests.

 

I cherish these moments, because I get to disagree with one of my favorite posters. (That's not sarcasm).

 

The issue here is that it is not just an RP reason. Hear me out...

 

If you are pushing Conquest and Rampage points then the the Jedi Temple is one of the best places to farm / grind. For whatever reason, Ossus does not have a lot of concentrated mobs except for the Jedi Temple, particularly given the respawn rate, which varies (e.g.. the Captains).

 

Point being -- to the best of my knowledge -- not one quest requires you to engage the mobs with two factions skirmishing each other. You can ignore them, unless the entire same-side faction is dead and you have to traverse past them.

 

For better or worse, this is the one area I can think of in-game where there is a legit non-RP in-game reason to help your NPC faction. You will kill faster if you keep your same-side NPCs alive. And...

 

To the extent that you can complete every single quest and avoid all of these skirmishes, I don't think it's griefing -- or at least would want BW to indicate as such.

 

Hugs,

 

Dasty

Edited December 17, 2018 by Jdast

[TUXs]

If Bioware isn't going to do anything to scammers on the GTN, there's no way they'll do anything here.

[JennyFlynn]

I cherish these moments, because I get to disagree with one of my favorite posters. (That's not sarcasm).

 

The issue here is that it is not just an RP reason. Hear me out...

 

If you are pushing Conquest and Rampage points then the the Jedi Temple is one of the best places to farm / grind. For whatever reason, Ossus does not have a lot of concentrated mobs except for the Jedi Temple, particularly given the respawn rate, which varies (e.g.. the Captains).

 

Point being -- to the best of my knowledge -- not one quest requires you to engage the mobs with two factions skirmishing each other. You can ignore them, unless the entire opposite faction is dead.

 

For better or worse, this is the one area I can think of in-game where there is a legit non-RP in-game reason to help your NPC faction. You will kill faster if you keep your same-side NPCs alive. And...

 

To the extent that you can complete every single quest and avoid all of these skirmishes, I don't think it's griefing -- or at least would want BW to indicate as such.

 

Hugs,

 

Dasty

Disagreement can be quite healthy.

 

To be entirely fair, I'm basing my stance solely on the situation as the OP describes it. I haven't yet set foot on Ossus nor know the quests/activities involved, even less so when it comes to Conquest. The way the OP words the situation makes it sound as though players were deliberately following them around to cause interference with their quest objectives, purely for the sake of being a nuisance and hindering another player. That sort of behavior I'm not okay with.

 

Your perspective sounds different. If there are motives for healing NPCs other than "just to be a duck/lols/RP", such a legit tactic to win an objective, then while it might be hindering I don't consider that wrong.

[Jdast]

Disagreement can be quite healthy.

 

To be entirely fair, I'm basing my stance solely on the situation as the OP describes it. I haven't yet set foot on Ossus nor know the quests/activities involved, even less so when it comes to Conquest. The way the OP words the situation makes it sound as though players were deliberately following them around to cause interference with their quest objectives, purely for the sake of being a nuisance and hindering another player. That sort of behavior I'm not okay with.

 

Your perspective sounds different. If there are motives for healing NPCs other than "just to be a duck/lols/RP", such a legit tactic to win an objective, then while it might be hindering I don't consider that wrong.

 

Fair point.

 

The way Ion described it in her original post, they were AoE damaging -- in other words -- yeah, there were pretty pixels going on around her, but not impacting gameplay itself. Frankly, I think they were just having fun and probably waiting for new mobs to spawn to go on their merry rampage way. (And, no, I don't do Conquest yet -- so it wasn't me! )

 

Most of us (note, including Estelindis, Rion and I) all agree that when it comes to healing the NPCs, that it's a different issue and agree that makes the issue more complex.

 

I think it was Phalzcen (spelling?) who suggested that it's okay to damage to NPCs but not heal them. Personally, I think that is a reasonable compromise.

 

Bottom line: This one is tough, but I do think it's kind of cool there is one area you can help your NPCs, which benefits you directly for Rampage. The problem, though, is that it's impossible realistically to distinguish between, "I'm RPing loyalty to my faction" vs. "I'm just a jerk."

 

Hugs,

 

Dasty

Edited December 17, 2018 by Jdast

[MikeCobalt]

I would Absolutely report this. They're just trying to be ****'s, on purpose. There's *Nothing for them to gain gamewise so they're trying to frustrate and make somebody else's game Unenjoyable. Being mean for the sake of being mean(and they're own foul sense of enjoyment (at the expense of anybody they don't like (Ex. other faction). This isn't like on the Planets doing Heroics where people are competing for resources, credits or completion (they have nothing of substance to gain) only a twisted, toxic sense of enjoyment; they're *Trolls.

[Jdast]

There's *Nothing for them to gain gamewise so they're trying to frustrate and make somebody else's game Unenjoyable.

 

100% demonstrably provable false. Read the thread.

 

Query: Do I need to engage skirmish mobs to complete quests? Answer: No.

 

Query: Will I complete Conquest / Rampage Objectives faster if same faction NPC are alive? Answer: Yes.

 

Ergo: It's complicated.

 

Dasty

Edited December 17, 2018 by Jdast

[IoNonSoEVero]

100% demonstrably provable false. Read the thread.

 

Dasty

 

Except that's not what I was talking about when I made this thread, although the conversation veered over to healing mobs.

 

In my case, I witnessed Republic players actively following around Imperials and doing things to distract them as they were completing their quests, such as spamming AoEs (not heals). In my case, I was doing the quest where you burn the books and then summon the Jedi Master. The Republic player unstealthed right next to the trigger item for the NPC, spammed AoEs at me and the Jedi Master (not heals) and followed me when I moved away. I saw him doing the same to others later.

 

There's nothing there that advanced his gameplay, since that was a summonable NPC. It was someone who had made a conscious decision to be a tool to other players.

[Jdast]

Except that's not what I was talking about when I made this thread, although the conversation veered over to healing mobs.

 

In my case, I witnessed Republic players actively following around Imperials and doing things to distract them as they were completing their quests, such as spamming AoEs (not heals). In my case, I was doing the quest where you burn the books and then summon the Jedi Master. The Republic player unstealthed right next to the trigger item for the NPC, spammed AoEs at me and the Jedi Master (not heals) and followed me when I moved away. I saw him doing the same to others later.

 

There's nothing there that advanced his gameplay, since that was a summonable NPC. It was someone who had made a conscious decision to be a tool to other players.

 

Fair enough. But I like pretty pixels. S/he did nothing to impede your quest. Frankly, had s/he done it to me, I would have pulled out my Jawa party dude and danced!

 

Hugs,

 

Dasty

[IoNonSoEVero]

Fair enough. But I like pretty pixels. S/he did nothing to impede your quest. Frankly, had s/he done it to me, I would have pulled out my Jawa party dude and danced!

 

Hugs,

 

Dasty

 

I think that's great if people can ignore things or enjoy them, but I personally have a lot of trouble following multiple things happening on screen. Someone who is spamming bright flashes of light and obscuring my view of my target is impeding me because it's so distracting and makes it much harder for me to see what I am doing.

[MikeCobalt]

100% demonstrably provable false. Read the thread.

 

Query: Do I need to engage skirmish mobs to complete quests? Answer: No.

 

Query: Will I complete Conquest / Rampage Objectives faster if same faction NPC are alive? Answer: Yes.

 

Ergo: It's complicated.

 

Dasty

 

Really missed the entire point on this one. Taking an excerpt that was in itself only used as an *Example instead of the Entirety of the post (Especially every other sentence that directly addressed the current subject). Ingame sometimes people like to repeatedly PM or go on..and on.and on about others, they have nothing to gain, cant profit in any way doing this, But, they do they seem to get a perverse enjoyment from this, to whoever the target is it can be damaging sometimes even log out. In RL we call them "Bullies" and there are many stiff laws against those types. On the Internet its "Trolls, Toxic" and yes..............Harassment.

 

Muting works, for that 1 person but does nothing to actually "Stop them" if they're going to stop *Harassing its only after being Reported and that requires 10 reports (I believe its 10 number could be different) within a certain time.

As in the Ostrich sticking ones head in the dirt *Will Not make the bad things go away (They don't really do that )

and simply thinking "Doesn't hurt *Me* so I don't care".....only lets it continue on. Here on the forums there is a process to notify BW and stop the text version of exactly that.

[cmcougar]

It is only reportable when there is a clear case of interference rather than just merely annoying. for example mass AOE heals on allied republic targets that imperials have to kill and can't because the republic players are dilberately being abusive. That would be a case where it can be reported on since it is completely disruptive.

 

if there is a case like that, it should most certainly be reported on.

 

 

 

Saying you are being bullied and actually proving it are entirely different matters. The police can't act unless there is proof of these claims, otherwise they'd be searching and turning up nothing. It isn't right to bully someone i agree but it also isn't right to throw accusations around without proof.

 

 

So the incident that the OP is talking about has to be put in the same class as the disgusting, juvenile sexual innuendo talk that I see in general chat all the time? Just ignore it? Can't report it because there is nothing anyone can do? I can't tell you how many kinds of wrong that is. The anonymity of the internet has made people into colossal jerks because they know they won't have to answer for anything they do. In my opinion, the OP's 'hassling' people are guilty of non-verbal trolling, and should be corrected for it.

[Jdast]

Really missed the entire point on this one. Taking an excerpt that was in itself only used as an *Example instead of the Entirety of the post (Especially every other sentence that directly addressed the current subject). Ingame sometimes people like to repeatedly PM or go on..and on.and on about others, they have nothing to gain, cant profit in any way doing this, But, they do they seem to get a perverse enjoyment from this, to whoever the target is it can be damaging sometimes even log out. In RL we call them "Bullies" and there are many stiff laws against those types. On the Internet its "Trolls, Toxic" and yes..............Harassment.

 

Muting works, for that 1 person but does nothing to actually "Stop them" if they're going to stop *Harassing its only after being Reported and that requires 10 reports (I believe its 10 number could be different) within a certain time.

As in the Ostrich sticking ones head in the dirt *Will Not make the bad things go away (They don't really do that )

and simply thinking "Doesn't hurt *Me* so I don't care".....only lets it continue on. Here on the forums there is a process to notify BW and stop the text version of exactly that.

 

I agree with absolutely everything you wrote in this post. I just also happen to think it is wholly irrelevant and non-comparable to the situation. There is not just a difference of degree, but of kind between:

 

A) Splashing some AoE around someone doing a 2 minute quest which in no way impedes them outside of some visual irritation; and

 

B) Harassing someone through PMs.

 

Should said individual in situation A follow someone around doing that then fine -- report the person. I just don't think anyone will get much traction with: "Someone cast a plasma grenade on me which did no damage, while I was trying to complete a 2 minute quest."

 

/shrug

 

Dasty

[phalczen]

For some people’s computers, spamming AoE attacks around a friendly NPC that is being attacked by a player of the opposite faction can cause enough lag to considerably interfere with gameplay, irrespective of the intent. And while healing a friendly NPC under attack from a player of the opposite faction wasn’t the topic of the original post, it could be just as much a form of griefing as the OPs experience. The difference is that BioWare developers could make a change to address “heal griefing” but CS or mods have to evaluate the OPs case. It’s also just as likely to occur on a planet like Ossus as the method described by the OP. I think it’s relevant because if developers actually address “heal griefing,” it’s indicative of a larger attitude acknowledging that the behaviors described in this thread rise to the level of actionable. It sets a clear standard and provides precedent for taking action against someone in the OPs case, even though the method of griefing is slightly different.

 

Again, I’d prefer griefers be dealt with by TEF, but that would be never fly today.

[SPrime]

Open map.

 

Change instance, problem solved.

 

It is an MMO, there are other players out there.

 

If you are on Ossus right now, there is nothing stopping your from doing so since there will be many instances.

 

Unless you have a potato of a machine, and changing instances will crash your comp.