A positive question for Story Players and OPs.

[Totemdancer]

Hey guys,

 

I’ve a question for all the story players, people who don’t do OPs or HM flashpoints.

(So this doesn’t concern those who don’t fall into this category. I want this to be a positive thread, not a big argument on who deserves what)

I don’t play OPs (anymore) myself or much of PvE because I find it boring or too easy. Its my wife who brought this up and asked me to post on her behalf.

 

Would you like to see a solo story option to play through the OPs content?

 

I’ve been talking to my wife and other Story players who’ve run out of content to play or have run through it so many times that it’s boring.

They’ve asked why not make the OPs soloable for Story players so they have something else to do and will play the game for longer.

 

The ideas on how to do this vary. Some are convoluted and some super easy. The one we talked about extensively was inbetween.

 

With the amount of companions we have these days, why not incorporate those as the group?

You could have some set to heals. Others set to tank and others for dps.

The boss mechanics would obviously need to be reduced a little, but the health and damage could probably remain the same because most comps are OP as it is. (That would reduce the amount of tweaks the Devs would need to make).

There would need to be a prequist to doing the OPs.

You would need 7 or more Companions to accompany you and allow a max of 10 to help you. (Having 10 also means the Devs don’t need to nerf damage or health if some players are finding it too hard with 7).

You would need to be max level (70)

 

The rewards obviously wouldn’t be the same as real group OPs. But there could be a weekly for doing x amount of different ones.

I’m not entirely sure what’s the best rewards for Story players. My wife favours decorations or companion gifts.

 

How many Story Players would like to see this option?

 

(As a reminder, please keep this civil and polite so people can express their positive desires for the game)

[IoNonSoEVero]

If it existed, I'd certainly play it. Being able to program several companions to follow you and serve as your backup would be fun. It wouldn't be about rewards and as you say, I certainly would not expect what actual Ops players get. But it would be fun to see it.

 

I've long wished they would make the remaining flashpoints more solo-friendly, by removing the level sync and enabling the kolto stations.

[Kiesu]

Lol. Well I do play OPS and FPs but if they'd manage to make a system that allowed us to micro-manage 7 companions all at the same time... sure I'd probably do a couple myself just for giggles.

BUT I see too many issues they'd have to take into account and change.

 

Unfortunately I have a feeling managing 7 companions at the same time would be quite a system for BW to work out, and even if they'd manage that; ordering 4 dps to constantly swap targets and run out of AOEs, or in them as the case may be (which there are both plenty in ops), micromanage your healers to cleanse the correct deadly dots and not just any random dot from the correct character, and constantly move your tank around in correct positions would be an amazing tedious constant bore. Because companions are stupid and cant even avoid a red puddle on the ground that has been sitting there for the past 10 minutes without you holding their hand to drag them around it. I really don't see how 7 companions would be realistically even possible to micro-manage and still have time in-between to do your rotation.

 

There is also mechanical issues that companions just cannot do.

They cant jump ledges (like soa, tfb and revan), they cant click buttons (like minefield, operator, fabricator or almost the entirety of DP and Gods), they can't function on their own in a space that is separate from the player's (Styrak, Calphayus, Raptus..), they can't kite bosses that require constant kiting (Council, warlords, blaster...), they can't interrupt abilities, cc-break or react to buff/debuff mechanics... and the list goes on.

 

They'd have to change the entire mechanics for over half of operation boss fights. I don't see that realistically happening. But it sure would be hilarious to see operations nerfed to be even easier than SMs already are!

Edited November 1, 2018 by Kiesu

[cmcougar]

If it existed, I'd certainly play it. Being able to program several companions to follow you and serve as your backup would be fun. It wouldn't be about rewards and as you say, I certainly would not expect what actual Ops players get. But it would be fun to see it.

 

I've long wished they would make the remaining flashpoints more solo-friendly, by removing the level sync and enabling the kolto stations.

 

 

I would certainly vote for this! Since I am so very uncomfortable trying to play in a group, I solo everything. I often have the 'left out of the loop' feeling because I can't do OP's.

[QuinlanSaathis]

100% yes

There is far too much critical story hidden within the OP's

[cyrusramsey]

Well.. I also play ops and fps a lot, but I do have some input.

 

First I'd like to note that if this would happen, I would make extensive use of it. Right now I will play operations when there's enough guildies around and we feel like doing them, so that has always been a bit sporadic, and even more so lately, and frankly, it does not mesh well with the stories they are a part of. I'd much prefer finishing Oricon's story with a solo mode Dread Fortress and Dread palace than wait till my guildies happen to be around when DF is on groupfinder and then again until the same happens for DP. Even the ones without specific singleplayer quests leading up to them will usually have little snippets of story in intro quests that are now very difficult to do at the correct moment in a playthrough without waiting on other people. It's disjointed and awkward.

 

Secondly.. you say "The boss mechanics would obviously need to be reduced a little", and, yeah, eh.. many of the mechanics would have to be nerfed a LOT. And I find myself pausing there, because many of the SM boss mechanics already for nerfed into oblivion, to the point where you can just stand there and take it, for laughs, but they'd have to do that to virtually every mechanic to make it viable for companions to be any part of it.

 

And.. "but the health and damage could probably remain the same because most comps are OP as it is." I'm not exactly sure what sort of raw numbers a dps comp will do nowadays, and I know that they tear up solo content, especially at rank 50, but even at that rank, their dps is nowhere near that of a good player, and I think requiring an army of rank 50 comps kinda defeats the point of making this sort of content accessible.

 

Also, rescaling health and damage is quite likely the easiest thing to do for them. It's the parts where multiple people need to perform tasks at the same time that would be the real effort on BW's part. Considering that, and the fact that AI in this game is extremely basic, it'd probably be much easier to bomb the numbers (enemy health and damage output, but also adjust enrage timers) and simplify (and nerf any damage of) mechanics than to make the companions any kind of useful (and they'd still need to nerf the mechanics with the comp route).

 

I don't mean to be negative, as I said, I'd definitely welcome solo mode operations, but I do not believe that the companion army idea is a very realistic one.

Edited November 1, 2018 by cyrusramsey

[Storm-Cutter]

It's a sound idea OP, but knowing the history of this studio, it'll never happen.

They don't have the resources to do anything much. What money they do have is spent in most baffling ways. - Such as redesigning gear systems and conquest and Galactic command.

 

I'm glad there's a new Operation coming. - Ops players have been without content for a long time. - But that does mean that everyone who doesn't or can't do operations has to scrabble for crumbs under the table for content.

 

I liked what they did with the Revan fight - with Satele and Marr and the rest all doing their thing, but nowadays the rewards are so derisory, that it's not worth doing unless for the story. ( 22K credits , 625 CP) compared to Chopping Block mission ( on Yavin) which is 14K credits and 529 CP and takes a fraction of the time to complete.

[fishpeople]

If they made a solo version I would play it.

[DarthSpuds]

100% yes

There is far too much critical story hidden within the OP's

 

^ This.

 

All The Best

[xordevoreaux]

Funny, somehow I see a solo operation storyline involving Soa, Garge, and Karagga, and requiring Lana Beniko to play through it...

[Typhaos]

This is not a new idea.

Sure a solo path in the group content would be nice.

I'd gladly play it.

FP, OP, final mission in the Shroud content.

[Andryah]

This is not a new idea.

Sure a solo path in the group content would be nice.

I'd gladly play it.

FP, OP, final mission in the Shroud content.

 

Correct. Been discussed here numerous times over the years.

 

Rift tried this years ago and it really did not go over too well in terms of the solo raid aspect. Of course Rift did not have the depth or persistence of story.... but that is not what made this idea suck in Rift. To make the raids in Rift solo (they called them instant adventrues, or some other similar term) they kept the instance, kept the main bosses and mobs, began at level 10 .. but dumbed them down to where they really had no raid like mechanics.. and the rewards other then XP were just useless. So it was novel and a lot of players tried it.. but within a few months.. it was largely abandoned by players. Some players did however adopt it as a preferred method to level up a character... but that was largely because the leveling arcs in Rift are basically the same for everyone on a given faction and incredibly boring after the 2nd or 3rd time. So the idea is not without merit.. but it only worked for Rift because they made it an actual leveling pathway for players rather then being forced to do the normal class quest arcs, or PvP, or dungeon crawling.

 

They eventually expanded the system to include a group component as well as spreading and proliferating adventures across their various zones.... again... to give players other ways to level.

 

The real problem here is they have to essentially wipe out the boss mechanics to make this work. If it is story that a player wants... I do believe there should be a path for story for everyone for every piece of story.. but for OPs here.... just put the story on a terminal in your ship where you can watch all the story and cinematics and simply skip what would be very boring combat sequences.

Edited November 1, 2018 by Andryah

[kodrac]

Well, yeah. Especially Oricon. I could care less about the lewts. Good story is it's own reward.

[TUXs]

Would you like to see a solo story option to play through the OPs content?

 

NO!

 

This is an MMO...group content is a good thing. I am 100% in favor of solo activities, but not Ops...forcing players to fill at least 8 players for a daily GF Op, is one of the best things for this game imo...allowing solo play has the potential to ruin it.

 

Please don't take that away. Instead, encourage players to whisper that guy spamming "LF1M GF Op"...it's good for everyone.

[Khevar]

If Bioware chose to do this, it wouldn't bother me.

 

But I have to wonder what the players that want a solo operation are expecting?

 

There aren't a lot of cutscenes, and those that do have almost no dialogue . There isn't a strong narrative. Generally speaking, what an operation consists of is:

 

1. Complex and challenging fights.

2. That require skill and coordination.

 

That's pretty much it.

 

People don't fight Toth and Zorn because it's a key moment in the player's story, or because it shows some depth in the lore of the game, or it advances a narrative. People fight T&Z because they have to them 30m apart, tank swap on the jump, avoid Fearful (if you're ranged), bait Zorn to throw Baradium at Toth, and kill them both at the same time. The fight is interesting. Done properly, it's practically a dance number.

 

So what experience are people asking for to solo an op? Change a number of boss fights so they don't require coordination and don't have complex mechanics?

 

Consider the solo Revan fight at the end of SoR. That was, in my opinion, one of the single most annoying encounters in the entire game. So many stuns, roots and knockbacks mean that you're spending a significant portion of the fight not participating, waiting for an effect to wear off, or waiting for your stunbreaker to come off cooldown. On top of the fact that it was practically impossible to fail.

 

Now consider Master Mode chapters. The "mechanic" there is "let's make the enemies hit really really hard". And ... that's all. I mean, they can be enjoyable is the sense of "they're not easy", but it's hardly inspiring combat design.

 

Not exactly compelling examples of a possible solo operation experience.

 

What sort of quality are we going to get out a "solo operation"?

Are people going to play it more than once?

Are people expecting multiple difficulty levels?

 

For those that want solo mode operations, wouldn't you enjoy the game more if you got NEW content specifically designed for your playstyle?

 

What's so interesting about retuning operations for the solo player? Is it simply because it's something in the game that you can't have and therefore want it more?

Edited November 1, 2018 by Khevar

[Estelindis]

I would absolutely play solo versions of operations.

 

I like playing in groups for PvP but not so much PvE. I don't like the level of commitment needed to advance group content to a high level via a solid ops group that plays regularly. I like to be able to meet up with people IRL on short notice rather than not being able to take up invitations because my operations group is running that night. Of course the alterative is PUGs and more casual group play but this involves its own difficulties, such as waiting for a long time to get the group together and troublesome group dynamics with randomers. So if opportunities opened up to experience ops content in some third way, I'd very much be on board with that. I think the Eternal Championship is a good starting point for solo content in a slightly more ops style.

Edited November 1, 2018 by Estelindis

[IoNonSoEVero]

For those that want solo mode operations, wouldn't you enjoy the game more if you got NEW content specifically designed for your playstyle?

 

What's so interesting about retuning operations for the solo player? Is it simply because it's something in the game that you can't have and therefore want it more?

 

Of course, I'd prefer new content. But seeing as we're not getting anything but scraps, giving the Ops and flashpoints solo modes would give me something to do.

 

Also, some of the Ops have been tied into story arcs. Oricon is the best example. Three parts of the Dread Masters arc are soloable (the Belsavis planetary arc, Section X and the story part of Oricon), and other parts are in Ops or the Dread Seed quests. So you get half the story. On Oricon, everything builds up solo, and then it's 'sorry, you need these Ops to go on and finish the story.'

 

Iokath, again. I understand there isn't a lot of cut scene material in the Tyth encounter. But it still remains that everything in the Iokath arc builds up to the superweapon, and then boom, there's the Op, and to make things even more fun, you can't abandon the thing. Making story arcs end in Ops doesn't force people to do them. It just means people will abandon the arc and feel frustrated that they missed part of the story.

 

IMHO if it's a story arc there needs to be a way for story players to go forward solo. If that's something like Yavin 4 where you have a choice of an Op or a solo activity, that would seem to fill the need. Making a very simple story version of the Op would be another.

 

For me, given a choice of what to concentrate on, though, I'd be more in favor of them making the remaining flashpoints soloable again - which could be as simple as removing the level sync and enabling kolto stations when solo players enter.

 

I'm in favor of making uprisings solo too because they tie into the traitor arc, and it's IMHO not right to have *story* content tied into a group activity.

[fishpeople]

Of course, I'd prefer new content. But seeing as we're not getting anything but scraps, giving the Ops and flashpoints solo modes would give me something to do.

 

Also, some of the Ops have been tied into story arcs. Oricon is the best example. Three parts of the Dread Masters arc are soloable (the Belsavis planetary arc, Section X and the story part of Oricon), and other parts are in Ops or the Dread Seed quests. So you get half the story. On Oricon, everything builds up solo, and then it's 'sorry, you need these Ops to go on and finish the story.'

 

Iokath, again. I understand there isn't a lot of cut scene material in the Tyth encounter. But it still remains that everything in the Iokath arc builds up to the superweapon, and then boom, there's the Op, and to make things even more fun, you can't abandon the thing. Making story arcs end in Ops doesn't force people to do them. It just means people will abandon the arc and feel frustrated that they missed part of the story.

 

IMHO if it's a story arc there needs to be a way for story players to go forward solo. If that's something like Yavin 4 where you have a choice of an Op or a solo activity, that would seem to fill the need. Making a very simple story version of the Op would be another.

 

For me, given a choice of what to concentrate on, though, I'd be more in favor of them making the remaining flashpoints soloable again - which could be as simple as removing the level sync and enabling kolto stations when solo players enter.

 

I'm in favor of making uprisings solo too because they tie into the traitor arc, and it's IMHO not right to have *story* content tied into a group activity.

 

Is there a guide for the order of the uprisings? I would like to play them in order.

[Andryah]

If Bioware chose to do this, it wouldn't bother me.

 

But I have to wonder what the players that want a solo operation are expecting?

 

There aren't a lot of cutscenes, and those that do have almost no dialogue . There isn't a strong narrative. Generally speaking, what an operation consists of is:

 

1. Complex and challenging fights.

2. That require skill and coordination.

 

That's pretty much it.

 

People don't fight Toth and Zorn because it's a key moment in the player's story, or because it shows some depth in the lore of the game, or it advances a narrative. People fight T&Z because they have to them 30m apart, tank swap on the jump, avoid Fearful (if you're ranged), bait Zorn to throw Baradium at Toth, and kill them both at the same time. The fight is interesting. Done properly, it's practically a dance number.

 

So what experience are people asking for to solo an op? Change a number of boss fights so they don't require coordination and don't have complex mechanics?

 

Consider the solo Revan fight at the end of SoR. That was, in my opinion, one of the single most annoying encounters in the entire game. So many stuns, roots and knockbacks mean that you're spending a significant portion of the fight not participating, waiting for an effect to wear off, or waiting for your stunbreaker to come off cooldown. On top of the fact that it was practically impossible to fail.

 

Now consider Master Mode chapters. The "mechanic" there is "let's make the enemies hit really really hard". And ... that's all. I mean, they can be enjoyable is the sense of "they're not easy", but it's hardly inspiring combat design.

 

Not exactly compelling examples of a possible solo operation experience.

 

What sort of quality are we going to get out a "solo operation"?

Are people going to play it more than once?

Are people expecting multiple difficulty levels?

 

For those that want solo mode operations, wouldn't you enjoy the game more if you got NEW content specifically designed for your playstyle?

 

What's so interesting about retuning operations for the solo player? Is it simply because it's something in the game that you can't have and therefore want it more?

 

Very well expressed.

[Celise]

Hey guys,

 

I’ve a question for all the story players, people who don’t do OPs or HM flashpoints.

(So this doesn’t concern those who don’t fall into this category. I want this to be a positive thread, not a big argument on who deserves what)

I don’t play OPs (anymore) myself or much of PvE because I find it boring or too easy. Its my wife who brought this up and asked me to post on her behalf.

 

Would you like to see a solo story option to play through the OPs content?

 

It's been on my mind for years wondering when SWTOR is coming to an end and hoping bioware will patch the game and remove the MP elements and place solo mode OPS. it remains a lingering thought and will probably do so until it is answered.

 

but yeah, it would be nice to take a few of your companions with you into operations. give them roles and tasks to perform. most operations won't be much trouble for a companion with the difficulty leveled out. but some tasks maybe too demanding on some bosses.

 

take for example, Jarg and Sarno, bonethrasher, Colonel Vorgath's minefield run and so on. unless the AI get updated to prioritise tasks that overrule the players control, otherwise you are likely to spend part of your time micro managing your comps..

[AlrikFassbauer]

My stance on this is the following : There has been put so much artistic work put into some OPs - Darvannis, Asation, Karagga's Palace - that it is a real shame to see tunnel-vision players rishing through these OPs as fast as possible ( like speedruns ) , and there is for a single member of that group just no way to explore these finely crafted areas without getting kicked or otherwise punished by the other group members.

 

Also a sh<ame that there is a ctually nothing to explore. No secrets, no boxes, nothing.

 

So, my wish is for macro and digging droid quests to be there. One could explore the whole area freely ande with no time restruiction.

[TUXs]

My stance on this is the following : There has been put so much artistic work put into some OPs - Darvannis, Asation, Karagga's Palace - that it is a real shame to see tunnel-vision players rishing through these OPs as fast as possible ( like speedruns ) , and there is for a single member of that group just no way to explore these finely crafted areas without getting kicked or otherwise punished by the other group members.

 

Also a sh<ame that there is a ctually nothing to explore. No secrets, no boxes, nothing.

 

So, my wish is for macro and digging droid quests to be there. One could explore the whole area freely ande with no time restruiction.

Ooooooooh...I kinda like that idea!!! They really are beautiful spaces that should be used more. I would absolutely support them being made into locations for a solo activity.

[Kiesu]

My stance on this is the following : There has been put so much artistic work put into some OPs - Darvannis, Asation, Karagga's Palace - that it is a real shame to see tunnel-vision players rishing through these OPs as fast as possible ( like speedruns ) , and there is for a single member of that group just no way to explore these finely crafted areas without getting kicked or otherwise punished by the other group members.

 

Also a sh<ame that there is a ctually nothing to explore. No secrets, no boxes, nothing.

 

So, my wish is for macro and digging droid quests to be there. One could explore the whole area freely ande with no time restruiction.

I've done that with the older ops.. just went in with half-manned group and took in the scenery.

There really wasn't all that much to look in any of the ops areas.

Most off-road areas are exhaustion zones.

[Stephrebecca]

Id love to see something like this happen.

 

Instead of thinking about having like 7 companions... Why not turn the SM ops into like the FP's where you get the Droid and your own companion to do.

 

This is a formula thats already in the game and surely wouldnt be that hard to implement the OP part of a story for the solo player to go through

[Khevar]

This is a formula thats already in the game and surely wouldnt be that hard to implement the OP part of a story for the solo player to go through

This isn't accurate.

 

There are a slew of mechanics that are not workable in a solo environment. Soa's mind trap. Heavy Fabricator puzzle. Keeping Toth / Zorn apart. The minefield. Op IX colors. Raptus challenges. Etc. etc. etc.

 

I'm not trying to say that it couldn't be done. But it's certainly not a "forumula that already in the game and wouldn't be hard to implement".

 

Many encounters would have to be completely redesigned.

Edited November 1, 2018 by Khevar