Feedback: Ossus Daily Missions

[Raansu]

Hey everyone,

 

I’m Jackie, one of the world designers working on Ossus. I’ve been reading feedback on the Ossus Daily Missions and have seen concerns about balancing for Heroics (such as the above quote). I want to clear up any confusion and highlight the design goals we have for them.

 

For Ossus, we want to have some more difficult content that encourages group play, something to add variety among the soloable content we have. To achieve that goal, we’re reintroducing [Heroic 4] Missions which some of you may remember from the base game. These are Heroics that will be balanced for 4 players or 2 players and 2 companions. [Heroic 4] Missions are not designed to be soloed. Players who obtain higher tiers of gear or who are higher skilled may be able to clear them solo with a companion, which we are fine with.

 

We appreciate the feedback given so far, so keep it coming! Be sure to include in your feedback how many players and Companions were in your group, the level of your Companions, and the groups gear level.

 

Thanks everyone.

 

-Jackie

 

Ya that's great......at first. Ya'll seem to forget the history of your own game. Section X people just ignored the heroic because the daily area was so empty you could never get 4 people to do it.

 

I think group content is definitely a necessity for MMO's and end game. But a daily area? No that's just a terrible idea.

Edited November 21, 2018 by Raansu

[IoNonSoEVero]

Nobody forces you to a playstyle though.

 

Right now all the other ways to the masterworks shards require grouping (PvP, Ops, world bosses). So if they have this Heroic 4 as part of the dailies, they are closing every door to solo players for the new gear. That IS trying to force people to group.

 

They've also not answered what gear level the regular content will be tuned for. So again, we might be looking at a situation where solo players need the new gear just to get through the story and future content, but are forced to group to get the gear.

 

i have to think it's going to end like every other ham-fisted attempt to get people to group: they won't. They'll just walk away from the content. That's what's happened with the macrobinoculars, the Oricon ops and the Iokath op. So they're essentially creating content that is destined to be ignored by a large portion of the playerbase.

[menofhorror]

I will remind you of one thing, they had heroic 4 when the game launch and at the beginning people did them, after a while people ignored them and stop doing them, so they went in and redid them to be solo so people started doing them again.

 

And before u make a comment, find a goup, I have one so it is not a problem for me but this has been done before and failed.

 

No, people also did heroic 4s after launch. And again, it's not like they suddenly change all the heroic2s into heroic 4s back again. It's just Ossus. Using the argument of "Oh people won't bother anyway" is senseless unless you try to encourage casual group play.

Oh and really it's not hard to find a group. That's what the chat is for.

 

Right now all the other ways to the masterworks shards require grouping (PvP, Ops, world bosses). So if they have this Heroic 4 as part of the dailies, they are closing every door to solo players for the new gear. That IS trying to force people to group.

 

They've also not answered what gear level the regular content will be tuned for. So again, we might be looking at a situation where solo players need the new gear just to get through the story and future content, but are forced to group to get the gear.

 

i have to think it's going to end like every other ham-fisted attempt to get people to group: they won't. They'll just walk away from the content. That's what's happened with the macrobinoculars, the Oricon ops and the Iokath op. So they're essentially creating content that is destined to be ignored by a large portion of the playerbase.

 

Fair point. Though you can also get those shards by chance through command crates as well. On the other hand, just letting everyone do it solo and just go their way will also involve people not comming back to Ossus and the chat being empty.

Edited November 21, 2018 by menofhorror

[IoNonSoEVero]

Fair point. Though you can also get those shards by chance through command crates as well. On the other hand, just letting everyone do it solo and just go their way will also involve people not comming back to Ossus and the chat being empty.

 

How so? All of the other ways to the masterworks shards require grouping of some sort. People who play PvP or run Ops will be doing those things. In other words, people who have an interest in grouping or need the gear for PvP will already be taking those routes, especially since they are much faster.

So the H4+ isn't necessary for the people who actually want to group. All it does - assuming it's a requirement for the dailies - is shut one playstyle out of being able to work for the shards.

 

People interested in gaining the reputation from Ossus - perhaps to buy reputation-gated merch - will be there regardless of the H4+. Doing the dailies for the shards without doing anything else will take a while, as well. But if there isn't a H4+ in the dailies, at least it would be available.

 

Forcing people to group = people not going to Ossus. There's really no reason for a solo player to bother with dailies at all if they cannot get the full weekly reward for it.

 

Also, chat's likely to be empty anyway. Since the devs refuse to do anything about the vulgar and disgusting chatter on gen chat, many players like me have already turned it completely off.

Edited November 21, 2018 by IoNonSoEVero

[menofhorror]

How so? All of the other ways to the masterworks shards require grouping of some sort. People who play PvP or run Ops will be doing those things. In other words, people who have an interest in grouping or need the gear for PvP will already be taking those routes, especially since they are much faster.

So the H4+ isn't necessary for the people who actually want to group. All it does - assuming it's a requirement for the dailies - is shut one playstyle out of being able to work for the shards.

 

People interested in gaining the reputation from Ossus - perhaps to buy reputation-gated merch - will be there regardless of the H4+. Doing the dailies for the shards without doing anything else will take a while, as well. But if there isn't a H4+ in the dailies, at least it would be available.

 

Forcing people to group = people not going to Ossus. There's really no reason for a solo player to bother with dailies at all if they cannot get the full weekly reward for it.

 

Also, chat's likely to be empty anyway. Since the devs refuse to do anything about the vulgar and disgusting chatter on gen chat, many players like me have already turned it completely off.

 

But see, H4+ aren't as time-investing as OPs, flashpoints or even pvp. It's the exact kind of very casual group play that introduces people into group play without exhausting them. The jump from full solo player to flashpoints/OPs is in my eyes too high. H4+ are the exact type of casual group content that is casual enough but still requires a little bit of working together and they don't take as much time as flashpoints.

That's why I am in support of H4+.

 

Regarding the vulgar chat. I mean, so you have a few trolls talking in chat, it's no real big deal and almost kinda the charm of MMOs.

[IoNonSoEVero]

But see, H4+ aren't as time-investing as OPs, flashpoints or even pvp. It's the exact kind of very casual group play that introduces people into group play without exhausting them. The jump from full solo player to flashpoints/OPs is in my eyes too high. H4+ are the exact type of casual group content that is casual enough but still requires a little bit of working together and they don't take as much time as flashpoints.

That's why I am in support of H4+.

 

Regarding the vulgar chat. I mean, so you have a few trolls talking in chat, it's no real big deal and almost kinda the charm of MMOs.

 

Keep in mind that people who *want* to group for H2s still do that now. Making the mission solo-friendly doesn't preclude people from grouping for it if they so choose. But making it group-only does shut solo players out.

 

I wouldn't mind H4+s (even though I think they are a real waste of dev time and resources, since most won't platy them) AS LONG as they are not a requirement for the dailies.

 

As a solo player, I'm not jumping to any sort of grouping. I don't care if it's for five minutes or five hours. If a H4+ is required for the dailies all it will mean for me is that I will be ignoring Ossus on every character. It's also been pointed out that this has been tried several times already and people haven't jumped to group. That's the long and short of it.

 

As for chat, if you don't mind seeing immature trolls spit bile in the corner of your screen, that's fine, but many of us do.

 

At the end of the day they wanted feedback and I gave it: that requiring grouping to complete the dailies will just drive more people from the game, will result in people like me not bothering with Ossus dailies at all, and will probably not have the effect they want.

Edited November 21, 2018 by IoNonSoEVero

[Sarova]

Hey everyone,

 

I’m Jackie, one of the world designers working on Ossus. I’ve been reading feedback on the Ossus Daily Missions and have seen concerns about balancing for Heroics (such as the above quote). I want to clear up any confusion and highlight the design goals we have for them.

 

For Ossus, we want to have some more difficult content that encourages group play, something to add variety among the soloable content we have. To achieve that goal, we’re reintroducing [Heroic 4] Missions which some of you may remember from the base game. These are Heroics that will be balanced for 4 players or 2 players and 2 companions. [Heroic 4] Missions are not designed to be soloed. Players who obtain higher tiers of gear or who are higher skilled may be able to clear them solo with a companion, which we are fine with.

 

We appreciate the feedback given so far, so keep it coming! Be sure to include in your feedback how many players and Companions were in your group, the level of your Companions, and the groups gear level.

 

Thanks everyone.

 

-Jackie

Unless your data shows something we're not privy to, this seems like a backwards step or worse like a "we can't be bothered to alter it" step so you've decided to call the impossible ones H4s instead.

 

Honestly I'm not a huge fan of Heroic 4's. All it adds is some annoyance in finding people to group up with. Then you just zone in, spend a couple minutes killing stuff, leave group the end. There's no added fun, just an extra step in getting people into group. It's so short no one even really talks to each other. And then later on when players have maxed rep and finished their gear grind it just makes it harder and harder for people to find groups for it.

 

I'm a solo player, so I can already see that this is going to be a bust for me. I really would've hoped by now, that they'd have learned that you can't push so much group stuff when there are so many solo players. And honestly, no amount of difficulty is going to push me into a group. I just won't do it. Is it that big of a deal to make a solo version, but with less rewards or something?

I agree with both the above. Are the devs currently trying to force grouping on solo players? That will never work. Grouping with strangers is no fun at all for me and occasionally is only a means to an end (like that Raghoul quest); it's a forced step in order to complete some necessary objective. Fortunately my main character is Imperial and I was able to complete the harder quests solo, but if they are made harder I'm out.

It's like you don't want my sub any more.

[JattaGin]

Hey everyone,

 

I’m Jackie, one of the world designers working on Ossus.(...)

 

Hello Jackie,

 

first of all, welcome! I'm happy to see a post from you in our forum and I thank you for it.

 

On the topic of bringing back H4s into the game, I have two things to say:

 

1. Right now, BW is going back to doing all the things that brought this game to the wall in the first place. Difficult OPs that barely anyone will ever touch. Enforcing group play like ranked PvP or now H4 again. I would like to remind you at BW that you went away from all of this for very good reasons. And now you try to bring it back, even though you should still have all the internal data from back then that showed you that it didn't work. I don't have the best feeling about this. A lot of the players who were here because of the MMO-aspects left this game years ago. Many of the remaining players are here because they enjoy the story and the RPG-aspects of this game. Everything done since 5.0 hasn't brought many MMOers back, but has driven away more and more RPGers. I would have prefered it if you would have kept your line and not completely revamp everything again. I feel like going in circles and that this game turns back into something which most people agree didn't work in the first place. You found your niche starting with 3.0 and I think the game was in a good state until you started rushing KotET for reasons, I still don't understand - and the numbers ever since don't indicate that it was a wise decision.

 

2. To the people saying that H4s are not a big deal: I invite you to play e. g. at 11 in the morning, because you work in the evenings. Try finding groups for anything at this time without significant waiting time (or no luck at all). When I have a long work shift until late evening or night in front of me, I just want to relax while playing a bit. Sure, I don't have to play this H4. But it limits my playing options if I need a group for this. And if there should be a weekly connected to the H4, this will be annoying. People already hinted at Section X and they are right to point it out. I don't know how Ossus plays out as I don't want to spoil myself, but I really hope they learned from the Section X mistake.

 

TL;DR: I think that changing the heroics systems to solo(+) play was one of the best decisions the Swtors devs ever made and I would like to encourage them to keep it that way. I wouldn't mind instanced heroics which come with 2 difficulties: solo and H4 - as long as there are no rare achievements connected to the H4 versions.

[JackieCao]

Hello Jackie,

 

first of all, welcome! I'm happy to see a post from you in our forum and I thank you for it.

 

On the topic of bringing back H4s into the game, I have two things to say:

 

1. Right now, BW is going back to doing all the things that brought this game to the wall in the first place. Difficult OPs that barely anyone will ever touch. Enforcing group play like ranked PvP or now H4 again. I would like to remind you at BW that you went away from all of this for very good reasons. And now you try to bring it back, even though you should still have all the internal data from back then that showed you that it didn't work. I don't have the best feeling about this. A lot of the players who were here because of the MMO-aspects left this game years ago. Many of the remaining players are here because they enjoy the story and the RPG-aspects of this game. Everything done since 5.0 hasn't brought many MMOers back, but has driven away more and more RPGers. I would have prefered it if you would have kept your line and not completely revamp everything again. I feel like going in circles and that this game turns back into something which most people agree didn't work in the first place. You found your niche starting with 3.0 and I think the game was in a good state until you started rushing KotET for reasons, I still don't understand - and the numbers ever since don't indicate that it was a wise decision.

 

2. To the people saying that H4s are not a big deal: I invite you to play e. g. at 11 in the morning, because you work in the evenings. Try finding groups for anything at this time without significant waiting time (or no luck at all). When I have a long work shift until late evening or night in front of me, I just want to relax while playing a bit. Sure, I don't have to play this H4. But it limits my playing options if I need a group for this. And if there should be a weekly connected to the H4, this will be annoying. People already hinted at Section X and they are right to point it out. I don't know how Ossus plays out as I don't want to spoil myself, but I really hope they learned from the Section X mistake.

 

TL;DR: I think that changing the heroics systems to solo(+) play was one of the best decisions the Swtors devs ever made and I would like to encourage them to keep it that way. I wouldn't mind instanced heroics which come with 2 difficulties: solo and H4 - as long as there are no rare achievements connected to the H4 versions.

 

 

So to clarify our design goal a bit more, we will still have [Heroic 2+] missions on Ossus. There will be just 1 [Heroic 4] Mission.

 

The plan is not to force anyone to play the [Heroic 4] Missions, it's to provide an option for people who want to play group content. There will still be soloable [Heroic 2+] Missions. The heroics are also not a part of the dailies/weekly's that give masterwork shards so playing the heroics is not needed to obtain the higher tiers of gear. There is a Weekly Heroic Mission that will require players to complete 3 Heroics in a week, but the players are free to choose whichever Heroics they want to complete. You can in fact complete the same Heroic Mission 3 times to complete the Weekly Heroic Mission.

 

Thanks

 

-Jackie

[menofhorror]

Keep in mind that people who *want* to group for H2s still do that now. Making the mission solo-friendly doesn't preclude people from grouping for it if they so choose. But making it group-only does shut solo players out.

 

I wouldn't mind H4+s (even though I think they are a real waste of dev time and resources, since most won't platy them) AS LONG as they are not a requirement for the dailies.

 

As a solo player, I'm not jumping to any sort of grouping. I don't care if it's for five minutes or five hours. If a H4+ is required for the dailies all it will mean for me is that I will be ignoring Ossus on every character. It's also been pointed out that this has been tried several times already and people haven't jumped to group. That's the long and short of it.

 

As for chat, if you don't mind seeing immature trolls spit bile in the corner of your screen, that's fine, but many of us do.

 

At the end of the day they wanted feedback and I gave it: that requiring grouping to complete the dailies will just drive more people from the game, will result in people like me not bothering with Ossus dailies at all, and will probably not have the effect they want.

 

Sure, you gave your feedback, I gave mine. You should however not only look at things your perspective. Making it solo friendly will only result to people playing it solo and then move along. No interaction, nothing in chat, everyone just silently passing each other.

"If a H4+ is required for the dailies all it will mean for me is that I will be ignoring Ossus on every character."

You are ok with other players passing by you each second of your playtime but you won't approach one person for help for even a minute? It's still an MMO and H4+ is the most casual group content out there.

That being said, I do kinda agree that perhaps it's best to have that H4+ not part of the dailies.

 

And immature trolls is something you will see everwhere online wheter it's a game, forums or other forms of social media. You cannot escape those lol and at the end of the day you can't just make them vanish.

[IoNonSoEVero]

Sure, you gave your feedback, I gave mine. You should however not only look at things your perspective. Making it solo friendly will only result to people playing it solo and then move along. No interaction, nothing in chat, everyone just silently passing each other.

"If a H4+ is required for the dailies all it will mean for me is that I will be ignoring Ossus on every character."

You are ok with other players passing by you each second of your playtime but you won't approach one person for help for even a minute? It's still an MMO and H4+ is the most casual group content out there.

That being said, I do kinda agree that perhaps it's best to have that H4+ not part of the dailies.

 

I will not group with someone even if it's for 30 seconds. Non-negotiable. If that is what the dailies will require, I will not do them, and I doubt I'm alone on that. See, that's the thing, forcing people to group doesn't make them group. It makes them abandon the content. You'd think they'd have learned that after the attempts at forced grouping for the Iokath and Oricon ops and the macro/dread seed quests fell flat.

 

And if that's what the devs want, to make it impossible for solo players to advance or do new daily content without grouping, I guess they're saying the game isn't for us anymore and they don't need our sub dollars.

 

You cannot force people to interact.

Edited November 21, 2018 by IoNonSoEVero

[Ld-Siris]

I mean is the heroic really gonna be dead if you need it for the gear grind? (In regards to the heroic 4)

[menofhorror]

I will not group with someone even if it's for 30 seconds. Non-negotiable. If that is what the dailies will require, I will not do them, and I doubt I'm alone on that. See, that's the thing, forcing people to group doesn't make them group. It makes them abandon the content. You'd think they'd have learned that after the attempts at forced grouping for the Iokath and Oricon ops and the macro/dread seed quests fell flat.

 

And if that's what the devs want, to make it impossible for solo players to advance or do new daily content without grouping, I guess they're saying the game isn't for us anymore and they don't need our sub dollars.

 

You cannot force people to interact.

 

If you want the gear, you will do it and if you can't bring yourself to group with another person for 2 minutes then the gear isn't that worth it to you it appears. Not giving incentive to group is equally as bad but again, you only look from your perspective. But of course, your opinion matters and nothing else doesn't it?

Because of a 2 minute group quest and everything being soloable you suddenly think this game isn't for you.

 

I am all for criticism but this overdramatizing is annoying.

[IoNonSoEVero]

If you want the gear, you will do it and if you can't bring yourself to group with another person for 2 minutes then the gear isn't that worth it to you it appears. Not giving incentive to group is equally as bad but again, you only look from your perspective. But of course, your opinion matters and nothing else doesn't it?

Because of a 2 minute group quest and everything being soloable you suddenly think this game isn't for you.

 

I am all for criticism but this overdramatizing is annoying.

 

Why is everyone supposed to enjoy grouping with randos because you do? They are giving "incentives to group" by making all of the fastest ways to gear involve group activities. All that is being asked is for ONE path to remain open for soloists.

 

Nobody's saying you cannot group if that makes you happy. All I'm asking is that I'm NOT forced to, because it is unpleasant and horrible for me.

 

Here's the problem:

 

1. If the new content is tuned for 248+, it's not "wanting the gear." It's needing it to move on in the game.

 

2. If the only truly viable ways to get the gear are grouping (PvP, Ops, H4+ in the dailies), and you don't leave one solo path open, then you've closed solo players out of getting the gear, which means they cannot advance in the game within their playstyle.

 

3. If solo players are being shut out of gearing in this way, and thus cannot continue in the game, they ARE saying "game's not for you anymore, sorry."

 

4. They've pulled this stunt with trying to force grouping at least four times before (Iokath, Oricon, dread seeds, macro) and it has NEVER worked. It's resulted in the content being ignored. There's a famous quote about insanity = trying the same thing again and again and expecting different results.

 

I've said my piece, people are going to agree or disagree, so I won't respond in this thread again. But I do hope they reconsider making the H4+ part of the daily/weekly requirements and consider how these actions may alienate solo players.

Edited November 21, 2018 by IoNonSoEVero

[Khevar]

2. If the only truly viable ways to get the gear are grouping (PvP, Ops, H4+ in the dailies), and you don't leave one solo path open, then you've closed solo players out of getting the gear, which means they cannot advance in the game within their playstyle.

I understand your concern, and I'm not trying to suggest that you alter your playstyle.

 

But remember that running solo content gives you CXP, which gives you boxes, which can be converted to UCs, traded for the new currency, which can be used to buy both 252 and 258 gear.

 

As a solo player, you DO have a solo path open, and you aren't closed out of getting the gear, it's just that for you it will be slower. So your #2 point above isn't really accurate

 

I mention this because I feel it would help your case take a step back and more clearly lay out what you're asking of Bioware as regards the 5.10 gearing system.

Edited November 21, 2018 by Khevar

[menofhorror]

Why is everyone supposed to enjoy grouping with randos because you do? They are giving "incentives to group" by making all of the fastest ways to gear involve group activities. All that is being asked is for ONE path to remain open for soloists.

 

Nobody's saying you cannot group if that makes you happy. All I'm asking is that I'm NOT forced to, because it is unpleasant and horrible for me.

 

Here's the problem:

 

1. If the new content is tuned for 248+, it's not "wanting the gear." It's needing it to move on in the game.

 

2. If the only truly viable ways to get the gear are grouping (PvP, Ops, H4+ in the dailies), and you don't leave one solo path open, then you've closed solo players out of getting the gear, which means they cannot advance in the game within their playstyle.

 

3. If solo players are being shut out of gearing in this way, and thus cannot continue in the game, they ARE saying "game's not for you anymore, sorry."

 

4. They've pulled this stunt with trying to force grouping at least four times before (Iokath, Oricon, dread seeds, macro) and it has NEVER worked. It's resulted in the content being ignored. There's a famous quote about insanity = trying the same thing again and again and expecting different results.

 

I've said my piece, people are going to agree or disagree, so I won't respond in this thread again. But I do hope they reconsider making the H4+ part of the daily/weekly requirements and consider how these actions may alienate solo players.

 

You're dramatizing.

Not getting the best gear out there doesn't mean "you can't continue playing the game." Command crates still give solo player a way to gear up. And the comparisons with Iokath, dread seeds and macro don't work because their problem isn't having to group up.

You want Bioware to reward solo players the same as people who play challenging group content. You want them both to be treated the same and that won't work.

[casirabit]

So to clarify our design goal a bit more, we will still have [Heroic 2+] missions on Ossus. There will be just 1 [Heroic 4] Mission.

 

The plan is not to force anyone to play the [Heroic 4] Missions, it's to provide an option for people who want to play group content. There will still be soloable [Heroic 2+] Missions. The heroics are also not a part of the dailies/weekly's that give masterwork shards so playing the heroics is not needed to obtain the higher tiers of gear. There is a Weekly Heroic Mission that will require players to complete 3 Heroics in a week, but the players are free to choose whichever Heroics they want to complete. You can in fact complete the same Heroic Mission 3 times to complete the Weekly Heroic Mission.

 

Thanks

 

-Jackie

 

Then you changed it from the PTS because the last time I was on the PTS it required 4 and it required specific ones to be done. Now I haven't been there for about two weeks so it could have changed but I am basing this on the last time I was there.

Edited November 21, 2018 by casirabit

[dzeiger]

Heroic 4 always meant 4 players or 2 players with 2 high geared/high influence companions. All other heroics are soloable so why exactly is it bad to have 4+ heroics in Ossus? The point of heroic 4+ is to have group content that is casual enough and not as time consuming as flashpoints but introduce solo players to playing with others for a few minutes. It introduces to the fun of group play. Flashpoints can be consuming and often also be quite hard for entirely new solo players. But 4+ heroics are the ideal introduction point for solo players who only for a little bit want to dabble into group play.

They can still redesign it later if people won't play through Ossus anymore but for the beginning it's good to have some activity introduced. Also....what's in your opinion wrong with people writing LFG messages? That's the point of the chat. Do you want an empty chat?

 

No, H4s were balanced for 4 players. Anyone doing them 2+2 was like someone doing flashpoints now--possible in the right situations, but not how they were designed.

 

But thanks for providing further evidence that "Heroic" designations have been confusing terminology that nobody has ever fully been able to agree upon.

 

LFG messages are not in any way encouraging chat. If I may be allowed a Monty Python reference, they "encourage" chat in much the same way that mindless contradiction is an "argument." If you yourself are not looking for a group, there really is no meaningful distinction between an empty chat and a chat of nothing but LFG messages.

 

As for the idea of H4s being a "bridge" of some type between solo and flashpoints, we already have that, they are called Uprisings. Uprisings already have a group finder framework and give reasons for people to do that content who may not need those specific planetary rewards. Now, arguably, Uprisings aren't the most successful things Bioware has done, but if so, what, exactly, is this H4 doing that would make it more successful than Uprisings, and why does it need to be done in a H4 format?

 

H4s failed because nobody wanted to bother doing them after a short-term flurry of people who have to progress through everything ASAP. So far, I have not seen any actual solutions to that problem listed. If you remove a mechanic because it wasn't working well, you shouldn't add that mechanic back in until there is an actual fix for it.

[kukumburr]

Then you changed it from the PTS because the last time I was on the PTS it required 4 and it required specific ones to be done. Now I haven't been there for about two weeks so it could have changed but I am basing this on the last time I was there.

 

It has changed. It went from requiring those 4 specific missions to just requiring like 11 of any of the missions (although the mission text was bugged) to now with the weekly not being able to be picked up at all. So it's probably still changing.

[Khevar]

No, H4s were balanced for 4 players. Anyone doing them 2+2 was like someone doing flashpoints now--possible in the right situations, but not how they were designed.

Since you weren't a SWTOR developer when heroics were being created, you couldn't possibly know how they were "designed".

 

What you're doing is making a guess, and trying to pass it off as a fact.

 

And seeing has how practically every H4 in this game was quite doable for two players + two companions, I'm certain that your guess is resoundingly wrong.

Edited November 21, 2018 by Khevar

[Lunafox]

How exactly are they pushing "so much for group stuff" when pretty much all the content in the game is soloable (except operations). So there is one heroic 4+ that requires you to group up with one other person and you spend only a few minutes with that person. What's bad about that?

 

 

 

 

What's bad about it? Clearly, you don't suffer from any measure of social anxiety. I can't group people. I just can't abide the meanness and intolerance and it's very present in this game. I won't expose myself to people who scream at me, to spacebar or do this or that or boss me around. I just want to quietly do my own thing, by myself. Talking to people in the game gives me extreme anxiety. That's what's bad about that. I've had to quit games I liked that started to push too much group stuff. No point in doing a thing if you can only get so far, or see so far before you're cut off.

[FiLaBugh]

If your intention is for an heroic 2+ to be soloable why call it heroic 2+??? thats just stupid.

[casirabit]

What's bad about it? Clearly, you don't suffer from any measure of social anxiety. I can't group people. I just can't abide the meanness and intolerance and it's very present in this game. I won't expose myself to people who scream at me, to spacebar or do this or that or boss me around. I just want to quietly do my own thing, by myself. Talking to people in the game gives me extreme anxiety. That's what's bad about that. I've had to quit games I liked that started to push too much group stuff. No point in doing a thing if you can only get so far, or see so far before you're cut off.

 

Luna,

 

You might have missed a recent post from the dev regarding the heroics. You can do any heroic and it only requires 3 and you can do 3 different ones or 3 of the same for the weekly reward.

 

https://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=955543&page=11

[Lunafox]

Luna,

 

You might have missed a recent post from the dev regarding the heroics. You can do any heroic and it only requires 3 and you can do 3 different ones or 3 of the same for the weekly reward.

 

https://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=955543&page=11

 

Thanks for that, I appreciate it. I did, in fact, miss that. I guess I get a bit in panic mode the moment they start on about 'we're making group content.' It freaks me out. If they let us choose what we want/can do, that's better.

[menofhorror]

No, H4s were balanced for 4 players. Anyone doing them 2+2 was like someone doing flashpoints now--possible in the right situations, but not how they were designed.

 

But thanks for providing further evidence that "Heroic" designations have been confusing terminology that nobody has ever fully been able to agree upon.

 

LFG messages are not in any way encouraging chat. If I may be allowed a Monty Python reference, they "encourage" chat in much the same way that mindless contradiction is an "argument." If you yourself are not looking for a group, there really is no meaningful distinction between an empty chat and a chat of nothing but LFG messages.

 

As for the idea of H4s being a "bridge" of some type between solo and flashpoints, we already have that, they are called Uprisings. Uprisings already have a group finder framework and give reasons for people to do that content who may not need those specific planetary rewards. Now, arguably, Uprisings aren't the most successful things Bioware has done, but if so, what, exactly, is this H4 doing that would make it more successful than Uprisings, and why does it need to be done in a H4 format?

 

H4s failed because nobody wanted to bother doing them after a short-term flurry of people who have to progress through everything ASAP. So far, I have not seen any actual solutions to that problem listed. If you remove a mechanic because it wasn't working well, you shouldn't add that mechanic back in until there is an actual fix for it.

 

You want to compare Uprisings to heroics 4+ but heroics 4+ were far more popular than any Uprising. Problem with Uprigins is that they feel like half-baked flashpoints. You still group for them in the finder. H+4 feels different because it doesn't happen in an own instance but on the zone itself. And it's also often quicker. H+4 never "failed" just because less people did them after launch but simply because of the lacking rewards. This time they make those H+4 mandatory for the reward for the highest armor currency, thus giving the incentive to do those now.

 

Is a solo player can get the highest gear in the game much easier than someone who groups up and puts effort to make groups with people then guess what: The incentive to group will completely die off.

But once again, forums dramatizing and some people looking at things only from their perspectives and ONLY how it benefits them the most.

 

What's bad about it? Clearly, you don't suffer from any measure of social anxiety. I can't group people. I just can't abide the meanness and intolerance and it's very present in this game. I won't expose myself to people who scream at me, to spacebar or do this or that or boss me around. I just want to quietly do my own thing, by myself. Talking to people in the game gives me extreme anxiety. That's what's bad about that. I've had to quit games I liked that started to push too much group stuff. No point in doing a thing if you can only get so far, or see so far before you're cut off.

 

Actually I do. Don't judge my personality based on a few forum posts. It's easy to appear tough and confident on the internet.

 

And don't get me wrong. I totally understand your complaint and point. I do partly agree with you but I also think that grouping up should still be favoured in comparison to going full solo. Full solo players shouldn't be rewarded just as much as group players because then the incentive to group up will go completely down the drain.

So I understand your point and I am also inclinded to agree that a solution would be to perhaps have the H+4 be not part of the weekly questline but I overall say, let's have it be H+4 at patch release and then see how many actually do it to how many don't and then react to it accordingly.

Edited November 21, 2018 by menofhorror