annabethchase Posted September 9, 2018 Share Posted September 9, 2018 Most guilds don't care if you have other characters that you play on or who you play with, at least the guilds I know of. But if someone is causing a problem in the guild how is a guild to know which characters belong to a certain person without knowing the legacy name in order to remove them from the guild. Kicking from a guild is not done just because they want to, it normally is done after a few times of asking that particular guild member to stop doing something that is causing problems for the guild. This can easily be done. Once this new policy takes effect, kicking a character automatically kicks the entire legacy. 1 button press does the whole process. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IoNonSoEVero Posted September 9, 2018 Share Posted September 9, 2018 I have both officers and non-officers who can promote. My event trustees are not officers, they cannot deguild, but they can promote people to the level necessary (member ops) to withdraw funds from the guild bank for repairs when participating in operations. I would be very leery of any system that limits how I conduct my guild. I'd still count the event trustees as "officers" in a sense. But I'd still posit that Random Player Joe in the guild who has no ability to do anything really doesn't need to see everyone's legacy names. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zerileth Posted September 9, 2018 Share Posted September 9, 2018 The OP's never returned. I don't think this is a serious discussion. Move along, move along. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DanNV Posted September 9, 2018 Share Posted September 9, 2018 Having legacy names visible is a definite plus for guild management. However, since legacy names are not unique, there can still be issues. (BW deciding to make them non-unique was totally stupid.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MandFlurry Posted September 9, 2018 Share Posted September 9, 2018 (edited) I certainly don't want guilds to know I have other characters. It's my right to decide who to play solo and who to play group activities with. I have no problem with you kicking my entire legacy, but you don't have to know my legacy name to do so. It's None of Any damned bloody Guilds business what Legacy name i have, and it's my privacy, nobody's damned business. Just like any Corporations trying to use Spyware on everyone that uses internet and computer programs. Bloody asinine is what it is. A good reason for people like me to stay out of Any Guild. They don't have a right to know anything i don't want them to. Some Guilds that i was in for just a week years ago wanted to know every character i had on each faction, and wanted me to have every bloody character i had in the faction to be in their Guild. I said hell no., and left. Sorry, i'm really a nice guy, but i do have very personal views when it comes to privacy, so much so, that i refuse to have all characters under 1 Legacy name, but i like privacy. It is rare that i would have more than 3 characters in any Guild because i have had to leave about 5 or 6 since this game started, and those Guilds and me have come and gone. Edited September 9, 2018 by MandFlurry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarova Posted September 10, 2018 Share Posted September 10, 2018 (edited) Exactly. If you invite any apple into the barrel, prepare to encounter a few rotten ones. There is something to be said for IRL-friends-only guilds. - although they're likely to be on the small side. I will only do serious group stuff with two real life friends - unfortunately our little group is too small to even create a guild (and before it's suggested we're all too antisocial/lazy to make any chat requests). That's the trouble with getting older - you start seeing people for what they really are & less people can be considered a "friend". When you're younger, everyone is your friend (including every Tom, Dick and serial killer on social media) Edited September 10, 2018 by Sarova Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TUXs Posted September 10, 2018 Share Posted September 10, 2018 I disagree. It's necessary for guild management to show Legacy names. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andryah Posted September 10, 2018 Share Posted September 10, 2018 (edited) Keith! You mention inside the roadmap. Member Ban by Legacy –Allows removal of members based on their Legacy. We need a option inside game settings for not show player legacy name to guild. This will bring in more subscribers with POP growth for having that option. Or game don't need guilds. The only player who would want/benefit by this would be the ones who have given their Legacy a bad name on the server, and are looking to sneak back into a guild that probably booted them for bad behaviors... so NO. I guess it could also benefit a player who is in a guild that restricts the number of characters from one account, and hence their Legacy name gives them away. But again.. this would be deceit toward the guild and so... NO. Edited September 10, 2018 by Andryah Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sinhammer Posted September 10, 2018 Share Posted September 10, 2018 Yeah, no to that. Legacy names in guilds is way too useful of a tool. Just kicked an entire Legacy yesterday because I realized the same Legacy had logged in on multiple toons, taking the same Cartel items multiple times from GB. I keep up with all staff members etc. by making sure all their Legacy toons are appropriately ranked and noted. Quite frankly if this were an option and you had Legacy in "off" mode I and I'm willing to bet many others would simply not allow you into their guild. I wouldn't risk it as I would just assume you're a known problem player and move on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaptRogue Posted September 10, 2018 Share Posted September 10, 2018 I disagree. It's necessary for guild management to show Legacy names. ^WHS Also helps just to know if you're talking to the right guildie. lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IoNonSoEVero Posted September 10, 2018 Share Posted September 10, 2018 I can fully understand why it is necessary for guild leaders, officers and anyone doing administrative tasks to have the Legacy information. But I still don't understand why it would be a big deal to hide it from the guild members' roster so every guild member can see it. If you're a manager or supervisor at work, you're going to have your employees' contact and personal information. You need that. But you're not going to share that with their colleagues to protect their privacy. I feel like this is the same concept. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joonbeams Posted September 10, 2018 Share Posted September 10, 2018 Honest question, because I really don't understand (assuming this wasn't flamebait). If you are hiding your legacy name w/ your toons in the normal course, why do you care if your legacy name shows up in the guild view? And if you're not hiding your legacy name normally, then same question -- why does this matter? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TUXs Posted September 10, 2018 Share Posted September 10, 2018 ^WHS Also helps just to know if you're talking to the right guildie. lol Exactly!!! I have all people with LOTRO Legacy names on ignore by default Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeatRacer Posted September 10, 2018 Share Posted September 10, 2018 If you're a manager or supervisor at work, you're going to have your employees' contact and personal information. You need that. But you're not going to share that with their colleagues to protect their privacy. I feel like this is the same concept. Sorry, but that's a false equivalence. Let's not act like made-up, non-unique Legacy names are anything on the level of "private/personal" information like IRL home addresses, SSN's, and bank account numbers. If you want to use the workplace analogy, it would be equivalent to your colleagues knowing your last name, because Legacy names are literally the surname of your characters. And every workplace I've ever worked at for the past few decades has had everyone's last names clearly printed on cubicle nameplates, access badges/nametags, and the company directory. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mournblood Posted September 10, 2018 Share Posted September 10, 2018 (edited) Absolutely terrible idea, and as others have suggested, it gives the impression you're trying to hide some inappropriate behavior you either did or are planning to do. Even if that's not your intention here, it creates a huge opportunity for abuse within guilds that doesn't currently exist. Legacy names have become an important tool in guild management, for both promotions and guild removal. If you've ever been a guild leader or even a guild officer, you'd know this. If you need to remove a bad apple from a guild, you don't just remove one of their characters - you remove them all. This would be difficult to do without Legacy names, and would allow that bad apple to create more strife and potentially do more damage in a guild. As for privacy concerns, that is a non-issue. If you have characters outside a guild, you can simply hide your Legacy name and no one will know it's you (unless you tell them). No, I'm vehemently opposed to this idea, and have down-voted this thread accordingly. Edited September 10, 2018 by Mournblood Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xordevoreaux Posted September 10, 2018 Share Posted September 10, 2018 Yeah, no to that. Legacy names in guilds is way too useful of a tool. Just kicked an entire Legacy yesterday because I realized the same Legacy had logged in on multiple toons, taking the same Cartel items multiple times from GB. I keep up with all staff members etc. by making sure all their Legacy toons are appropriately ranked and noted. Quite frankly if this were an option and you had Legacy in "off" mode I and I'm willing to bet many others would simply not allow you into their guild. I wouldn't risk it as I would just assume you're a known problem player and move on. No one in my guild gets promoted at all until they establish a legacy name. They'll rot there forever as a recruit until they do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IoNonSoEVero Posted September 11, 2018 Share Posted September 11, 2018 Sorry, but that's a false equivalence. Let's not act like made-up, non-unique Legacy names are anything on the level of "private/personal" information like IRL home addresses, SSN's, and bank account numbers. If you want to use the workplace analogy, it would be equivalent to your colleagues knowing your last name, because Legacy names are literally the surname of your characters. And every workplace I've ever worked at for the past few decades has had everyone's last names clearly printed on cubicle nameplates, access badges/nametags, and the company directory. I suppose the concern is that people could use the legacy name to track down your other characters that one would prefer to keep out of the guild. If that's not possible, I agree that it's not an issue, but if it is, I can agree it's a non-issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Celise Posted September 11, 2018 Share Posted September 11, 2018 por que? It means that if one character ( player) is removed, there is an option to remove all their alts as well. Sounds like a good move, if somewhat draconian. But if a player isn't behaving within the parameters of the guild, then the guild can eject that player altogether. that cuts both ways. removing someone by legacy may seem like a good idea but it can be easily abused on the other side of the issue. if those people can't work out what is wrong between themselves in the guild? they shouldn't be in the guild. guild leaders are chosen according to their usefulness, their ability to lead and considerable ability to put up with a wide range of crap and the tolerance to go with and especially their responsibility to everyone around them. i tend to see ignore features and these kick features as something that isn't needed and the kick feature unless there is little other alternative. but others can see it as a way to use it to attack others with now they have that power. you can't always know what is inside someones mind or what their priorities are so you are likely to find a few rotten apples that fell so far from the tree you don't even see them coming when they start using those powers. i just wish these kick features came with a vote option to them within the guild regarding the officers and leader than the rest of the guild. not everyone will see the same incident in the same way and others will require a more concrete answer for the kick. it shouldn't be in just one set of hands to do with as they please. if there is a kick feature all the guild leadership needs to be behind it otherwise it isn't really a guild with responsible leadership. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mournblood Posted September 11, 2018 Share Posted September 11, 2018 (edited) that cuts both ways. removing someone by legacy may seem like a good idea but it can be easily abused on the other side of the issue. if those people can't work out what is wrong between themselves in the guild? they shouldn't be in the guild. guild leaders are chosen according to their usefulness, their ability to lead and considerable ability to put up with a wide range of crap and the tolerance to go with and especially their responsibility to everyone around them. i tend to see ignore features and these kick features as something that isn't needed and the kick feature unless there is little other alternative. but others can see it as a way to use it to attack others with now they have that power. you can't always know what is inside someones mind or what their priorities are so you are likely to find a few rotten apples that fell so far from the tree you don't even see them coming when they start using those powers. i just wish these kick features came with a vote option to them within the guild regarding the officers and leader than the rest of the guild. not everyone will see the same incident in the same way and others will require a more concrete answer for the kick. it shouldn't be in just one set of hands to do with as they please. if there is a kick feature all the guild leadership needs to be behind it otherwise it isn't really a guild with responsible leadership. You've never been a guild leader, have you? While there's always exceptions when it comes to guild leaders, most of the guild leaders I know aren't running a guild so that they can babysit a bunch of kids who can't conduct themselves with some modicum of intelligence and maturity. Mostly, that includes treating fellow guild members with some respect and courtesy, but may also include common sense behavior such as "if it's inappropriate in the real world, it's inappropriate in the game." Guild leaders want to play the game too, and they can't do that if they are dealing with a bunch of guild drama. Likewise, the effectiveness of guild leadership depends on the maturity of the guild leader and his/her officers, how well organized they are, and how well defined is their guild policy (i.e. transparency). A guild that has no written policy is likely going to have problems because the guild leader can just make stuff up as they go along, guild conduct enforcement can become arbitrary, and guild members can claim ignorance when there is misconduct. While there are certainly guild leaders out there who abuse their power, they usually end up with an empty guild eventually. Basically, if you don't want to get kicked from a guild, either don't act in a way that will get you kicked, or make your own guild. If the guild leader is bad news, then leave the guild and find a better one. There are plenty of them. Bringing this back on topic, responsible guild leadership has nothing to do with the proposal made by the OP to hide guild member Legacy names, as the majority of successful guilds are run by competent guild leaders who rely on Legacy names for more effective guild management. More to the point, hiding Legacy names for guild members isn't going to make a bad guild leader into a good one. Edited September 11, 2018 by Mournblood Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xordevoreaux Posted September 11, 2018 Share Posted September 11, 2018 (edited) You've never been a guild leader, have you? [snip] More to the point, hiding Legacy names for guild members isn't going to make a bad guild leader into a good one. Both good points. Very revealing when Celise said: guild leaders are chosen I knew immediately Celise was never a guild leader. Guild leaders aren't chosen from the outset of the creation of a guild. Good or bad, mature or juvenile, skilled or raw, guild leaders are the driving personality and energy responsible for a guild's initial formation. Down the road, if that guild leader leaves or chooses to step down from the leader role, a new guild leader may indeed be chosen (other than via the automatic system-assigned way) and certain aspects of that choice come into play, first and foremost the culture of the guild, not an absolute set of values. There's no one complete list of qualifications for a guild leader that makes sense for all guild types. In a guild that exists solely for the purpose of ganking other players in PVP zones, being devious and underhanded as a player might be exactly what that guild's members would expect. An entirely different set of criteria might be applied say, by a guild's members who roleplay a brotherhood of noble Jedi knights. Even if one attempts to boil down essential qualities of a successful guild leader, I personally can only think of one quality that applies to the leader of every type of successful guild, whether it be ERP, RP, PVP, PVE, conquest, casual, or any smattering of the aforementioned: dedication. Edited September 11, 2018 by xordevoreaux Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xordevoreaux Posted September 11, 2018 Share Posted September 11, 2018 (edited) if there is a kick feature all the guild leadership needs to be behind it otherwise it isn't really a guild with responsible leadership. So when someone is caught red-handed immediately in the act of emptying a guild bank, calling another player racist or perjorative names, involving the guild in a bannable exploit, or any host of egregious behaviors, a guild following your suggestion would simply have to sit back and let it happen until the entire guild leadership can log on to debate it. No. Simply... no. There's a reason why a town has a sheriff, and there's a reason why he doesn't have to call in the major, deputy major, the city council, and the local Kiwanis club president to sit down and debate whether he needs to brandish his weapon and fire it in attempting to stop a violent crime. No one's forced to hang around in a guild with an inept or abusive guild leader, and if you're concerned about an abuse of absolute authority by guild leaders, there are plenty of outstanding and respectable guild leaders in this game and others whose collective behavior could easily demonstrate that your opinion smacks of a deep-seated paranoia. Edited September 11, 2018 by xordevoreaux Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kodrac Posted September 11, 2018 Share Posted September 11, 2018 This is hilarious. Don't totally kick me me out of your guild bro! I'm only a dick on that toon. As if.... And then he tries to get on the studio's good side with a bribe. More people will sub if you do this. Mmm hmmm. Troll spotted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andryah Posted September 11, 2018 Share Posted September 11, 2018 (edited) This is hilarious. Don't totally kick me me out of your guild bro! I'm only a dick on that toon. As if.... And then he tries to get on the studio's good side with a bribe. More people will sub if you do this. Mmm hmmm. Troll spotted. LMAO! I think you nailed it right here. Back to the OP: look this is really basic to understanding human nature ---> anything that can be misused or exploited can and will be misused and exploited by some fraction of the humans present. Attempting to hide or deceive while being bad being one of the more common manifestations, particularly inside MMOs. And it only takes a few clowns to disrupt any community. So.. again.. NO to your idea. Edited September 11, 2018 by Andryah Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darevsool Posted September 11, 2018 Share Posted September 11, 2018 (edited) All of this is interesting when you remember that people can make duplicate legacy names. On one of the servers I have the legacy name of "Darev" on both of my accounts. I thought it would make things easier for the guild I joined. Made things more difficult for me though, keeping track of which toon is on which account from the "G" menu is much more difficult now. Edited September 11, 2018 by Darevsool Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TUXs Posted September 11, 2018 Share Posted September 11, 2018 No. Simply... no. I could not agree more. If you can't trust your leader to do the right thing, find another guild. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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