Planned Warzone Changes Part 2

[Neoforcer]

The longer this discussion goes on and the more I read the more I become convinced that the only thing people really have a problem with in Huttball is Operative rolling and maybe one or two of the other newer mobility skills.

 

Sure, people would also like to see more people participating in the objectives instead of deathmatching, but none of the changes proposed - and frankly probably no changes that could be proposed - are going to make a difference about that. No change that makes it require more people to score will make those more people choose to actually help if they'd rather deathmatch. If you want to fix THAT, then you need to DEINCENTIVIZE death matching, not incentive scoring. You'd need to make a change like blowing up people who haven't touched the ball in X time period, not blowing up people who've had it too long (I don't support this as a real change, by the way: it's just an example).

 

In any case, instead of changing the entire game mode for everybody and introducing all of these unintended consequences that people raise after every suggestion, why not just do something to fix the operative roll and, if need be, a few other of the newer skills? Give the operative roll a longer cooldown while holding the Huttball or something.

 

People have given up do to movement abilities they just death match now because even with 45s timer it does nothing to fix that issue. Imagine Football the other team being able to just leap to the Wide receiver able to make the quarterback pulled rolled, override, his way to the Wide receiver that makes for fair play. Yes all the movement abilities are op ops being the worst. That what were saying Moment abilities need to be dealt with to bring huttball back to team play.

[Neoforcer]

I do not agree with removal of Hinder, but I understand it, as rolls are key defense tactic.

 

How about instead making any sort of high mobility (roll, pull, transpose, etc) drop the ball? Because otherwise, roll+pull means instant point with not much trying

 

This is what every one been asking for It the perfect fix as it makes people have to play as a team there no I in team. When it come to these abilities.

Edited June 7, 2018 by Neoforcer

[lodge]

Or instead of dropping the ball, how about hindering automatically puts a 45 second cooldown on any mobility skill (i.e., you can only use it once before 45-second death timer expires).

 

The problem with rolls and other movement skills is that they can be spammed (ok 10 seconds in between). This would make using the operative roll a strategic decision, rather than just spamming it on CD...do i use it to get the ball? do i use it to get out of trouble? or do i use it at the end to score?

[Skolops]

People have given up do to movement abilities they just death match now because even with 45s timer it does nothing to fix that issue. Imagine Football the other team being able to just leap to the Wide receiver able to make the quarterback pulled rolled, override, his way to the Wide receiver that makes for fair play. Yes all the movement abilities are op ops being the worst. That what were saying Moment abilities need to be dealt with to bring huttball back to team play.

 

As others have pointed out, there are all sorts of things that other players can do to prevent or counter most of the movement abilities themselves, and this is what makes for an interesting, tactical, and skill based game. One group of players is trying to use their movement abilities to score, while the other is trying to counter those abilities. Players on both teams need to keep aware of their own cooldowns as well as what cooldowns the other team has. Did that Juggernaut just push and leap? Then he won't have another one for a while and save some of our cooldowns for when he is going to. Has he not lept in a while? We need to be aware that he has one coming up and maybe net him now or do something else.

 

Just letting the game do it all for us takes virtually all of the tactics and interesting play out of the game. It becomes another kind of PvE, not PvP.

 

To respond to the analogy: imagine a football game where the offense was prohibited from running and permitted only to either walk slowly or pass the ball to somebody else, who then must also walk slowly, but the defense was permitted to fly around in jetpacks. That's hinder.

Edited June 7, 2018 by Skolops

[Neoforcer]

As others have pointed out, there are all sorts of things that other players can do to prevent or counter most of the movement abilities themselves, and this is what makes for an interesting, tactical, and skill based game. One group of players is trying to use their movement abilities to score, while the other is trying to counter those abilities. Players on both teams need to keep aware of their own cooldowns as well as what cooldowns the other team has. Did that Juggernaut just push and leap? Then he won't have another one for a while and save some of our cooldowns for when he is going to. Has he not lept in a while? We need to be aware that he has one coming up and maybe net him now or do something else.

 

Just letting the game do it all for us takes virtually all of the tactics and interesting play out of the game. It becomes another kind of PvE, not PvP.

 

 

Yep why do you think 90% of huttball players death match after the first score they give up because with all these abilities there is no point. If they do nothing to fix this issue when the new que system is here they will find hottbull is played 20% of the time like odessen. Here what happens in every huttball game people load in see it huttball and leave wonder why? Used to not be that way people played it was fun. There were a lot of people who liked Hinder matter of fact we were talking about it in just about every match.

Edited June 7, 2018 by Neoforcer

[Glower]

Im not even surprised that Bioware removed hindered, you just scared them, you do not want any changes or maybe afraid of them.

 

Like, how can i troll a whole team with these changes? Am i supposed to die here and there?

 

Some even went with the old L2P mantra. What a pity.

[Mournblood]

It's honestly not as bad as some of you are making it out to be. Most of you are exaggerating and spreading false information to the team, and to people who are reading this thread.

 

Wrong. It is not an exaggeration or anecdotal when I say that when I'm on my Operative in a HB/QB match, I'm scoring most of our scores, and we typically win. The only times I lose in HB when I'm on my Operative is if we're against a double premade who's effectively keeping us from getting the ball. But once I get it, and one of my guild mates gets in position on that top ramp, it's a guaranteed score. And we're not the only ones who do this. Certainly, other classes can score in a similar fashion, but none as effectively as an Operative.

 

I will say that I'm not at all advocating any sort of nerf for Operatives. They absolutely rely on Exfiltrate as a DCD. What I am stating, unequivocally, is that HB/QB were never originally designed to account for the mobility abilities that are presently in the game. If we're going to see a more inclusive and engaging WZ in HB/QB, they need to address this.

 

Personally, I like the suggestion I saw from another poster that Bioware add abilities like Exfiltrate to the list of abilities that make you drop the ball, like Sorc bubble and Phase Walk.

[Neoforcer]

Im not even surprised that Bioware removed hindered, you just scared them, you do not want any changes or maybe afraid of them.

 

Like, how can i troll a whole team with these changes? Am i supposed to die here and there?

 

Some even went with the old L2P mantra. What a pity.

 

Agreed The issue is not resoled in smart matter like i said blocking the ability is bad. But Dropping the ball would fix every class if they used the ability. This is what i heard so far after posting this here and there people won't que with these changes because of the removal of hinder.

[Mournblood]

How about instead making any sort of high mobility (roll, pull, transpose, etc) drop the ball? Because otherwise, roll+pull means instant point with not much trying

 

For the sake of emphasis, I think this is a great suggestion and I fully endorse it.

[Glower]

How about instead making any sort of high mobility (roll, pull, transpose, etc) drop the ball? Because otherwise, roll+pull means instant point with not much trying

 

Let's try to put it into Bioware heads!

[Rion_Starkiller]

You guys keep going and going with the #nerfoperatives bandwagon. Do I need to start going line by line how to stop what you are describing?

 

What about slingers snipers? they can roll thru fire too. What about guardian/juggs? they can bladeblitz thru fire. What about sages pulling? What about PT's and SINs fire-pulling?

 

Seriously, you guys are starting to sound incredibly ridiculous.

[Rion_Starkiller]

Yep why do you think 90% of huttball players death match after the first score they give up because with all these abilities there is no point. If they do nothing to fix this issue when the new que system is here they will find hottbull is played 20% of the time like odessen. Here what happens in every huttball game people load in see it huttball and leave wonder why? Used to not be that way people played it was fun. There were a lot of people who liked Hinder matter of fact we were talking about it in just about every match.

 

Is that a problem with "all these abilities" or with matchmaking?

[PennyAnn]

Suggestions:

 

#1 - To encourage movement abilities be used to get into position to score (without the ball), and not to actually score (with the ball) - ALL movement abilities should reset the ball at mid (like phase walk or stealth does). Using a movement ability when you have the ball would be an automatic reset. Those movement abilities could be used any other time without penalty, thus putting you in position to receive a pass, but not able to do all that work alone.

 

#2 - Phase walk use should be restricted in Huttball the way it is in Queshball, and in Queshball it should be further restricted to limit the phase walk/sorc pull assists. Sorcs should still be able to pull their teammates from anywhere on the map (including into the end zone to score), but they should be forced to actually RUN to that position and make it there alive without the use of phase walk every time. I propose limiting the use of phase walk to your own side of the field only and in mid. So you could in regular Huttball place a phase walk anywhere from your own team's spawn point to the acid pool on your opponent's side at mid, or the walkway over it, but no closer to the opposition's goal. This would put all the fire traps between you and the end zone, and you would be unable to avoid them all by putting your phase walk on the top ramp that leads directly down into the end zone of your opponent in Huttball.

 

In Queshball, you could place your phase walk anyhwere from your own team's spawn to the bottom of the opposition team's ramps (but not on the pipes that cross over between sides). In other words, you could place it anywhere except the pipes that connect the two spawn points, or the ramps leading up to the spawn points, or the end zone area itself (already restricted).

 

Phase walk never used to be a big issue because only Assassins had it, and they didn't also have the Sorc/Sage teammate pull ability. I do not think this ability should be limited, but I think you should actually have to put yourself in position to use it without phase walk instantly blinking you there. Phase walk would then become more of an "escape" than an offensive advantage.

 

If all movement abilities make you reset the ball, this will naturally encourage those abilities to be used to position yourself for a PASS, rather than used to easily score, and preserves their defensive value. You now must choose between keeping the ball, passing, or staying alive and resetting the ball if you use a movement ability and take advantage of the defensives associated with it. No hinder necessary and you retain the use of those movement abilities for creative play that makes them fun and rewarding to use.

 

.

Edited June 7, 2018 by PennyAnn

[Neoforcer]

You guys keep going and going with the #nerfoperatives bandwagon. Do I need to start going line by line how to stop what you are describing?

 

What about slingers snipers? they can roll thru fire too. What about guardian/juggs? they can bladeblitz thru fire. What about sages pulling? What about PT's and SINs fire-pulling?

 

Seriously, you guys are starting to sound incredibly ridiculous.

 

It not nerf ops it nerf movement effect to encourage team play. Huttball turned into special movement abilities and ) team play. If you played at launch team play was encourage before all these abilities.

[Neoforcer]

Is that a problem with "all these abilities" or with matchmaking?

 

No the people is not match making it not like it going to change this at all.

[Rion_Starkiller]

Disagree with it all.

 

Improve matchmaking.

[KendraP]

Disagree with it all.

 

Improve matchmaking.

 

They are improving matchmaking

[Neoforcer]

Suggestions:

 

#1 - To encourage movement abilities be used to get into position to score (without the ball), and not to actually score (with the ball) - ALL movement abilities should reset the ball at mid (like phase walk or stealth does). Using a movement ability when you have the ball would be an automatic reset. Those movement abilities could be used any other time without penalty, thus putting you in position to receive a pass, but not able to do all that work alone.

 

#2 - Phase walk use should be restricted in Huttball the way it is in Queshball, and in Queshball it should be further restricted to limit the phase walk/sorc pull assists. Sorcs should still be able to pull their teammates from anywhere on the map (including into the end zone to score), but they should be forced to actually RUN to that position and make it there alive without the use of phase walk every time. I propose limiting the use of phase walk to your own side of the field only and in mid. So you could in regular Huttball place a phase walk anywhere from your own team's spawn point to the acid pool on your opponent's side at mid, or the walkway over it, but no closer to the opposition's goal. This would put all the fire traps between you and the end zone, and you would be unable to avoid them all by putting your phase walk on the top ramp that leads directly down into the end zone of your opponent in Huttball.

 

In Queshball, you could place your phase walk anyhwere from your own team's spawn to the bottom of the opposition team's ramps (but not on the pipes that cross over between sides). In other words, you could place it anywhere except the pipes that connect the two spawn points, or the ramps leading up to the spawn points, or the end zone area itself (already restricted).

 

Phase walk never used to be a big issue because only Assassins had it, and they didn't also have the Sorc/Sage teammate pull ability. I do not think this ability should be limited, but I think you should actually have to put yourself in position to use it without phase walk instantly blinking you there.

 

If all movement abilities make you reset the ball, this will naturally encourage those abilities to be used to position yourself for a PASS, rather than used to easily score, and preserves their defensive value. You now must choose between keeping the ball, passing, or staying alive and resetting the ball if you use a movement ability and take advantage of the defensives associated with it. No hinder necessary and you retain the use of those movement abilities for creative play that makes them fun and rewarding to use.

 

.

 

This ism what we are saying the Few who think movement abilities are not an I WIN BUTTON. Alls we want is team play like it used to be before every one and his brother got a Movement ability this include all movement increases.

[Neoforcer]

They are improving matchmaking

 

 

Ya there making it so 4 tanks 3 healer and a dps will not happen. But this has no barring on The issue why Hinder was put in and then removed.

Edited June 7, 2018 by Neoforcer

[PennyAnn]

Ya there making it so 4 tanks 3 healer and a dps will not happen. But this has no barring on The issue why Hinder was put in and then removed.

 

But hinder, as suggested and designed would have caused its own set of issues (stun fests with no escape, more frequently dying with the ball, and stalemates). Hinder is NOT the solution, and you should recognize (as the developers have) that it wouldn't have worked the way it was intended without lots of bad unintended side effects. There are more elegant solutions, and I am very glad that Bioware are considering those instead.

 

Also - let's all just chill out about getting so overzealous and over the top before these changes are even in the game! They aren't even on the PTS yet, either! Claiming that you will "never play Huttball again" before they even finalize changes is overly dramatic and makes it hard to take your other suggestions and counter-arguments seriously.

 

More rational discussion and less hyperbole and dramatics, please. We might actually get things more the way we want them if we... I dunno... discuss like adults instead of turning into trolls just when the developer feedback/interaction with us is at an all-time high about proposed changes. There is plenty of room for healthy debate and sharing ideas without bashing each other and all that other nonsense.

 

.

[_Miriya_]

Let us know your thoughts on these changes!

 

-eric

 

Now changes are great good job and thank you!

[Neoforcer]

But hinder, as suggested and designed would have caused its own set of issues (stun fests with no escape, more frequently dying with the ball, and stalemates). Hinder is NOT the solution, and you should recognize (as the developers have) that it wouldn't have worked the way it was intended without lots of bad unintended side effects. There are more elegant solutions, and I am very glad that Bioware are considering those instead.

 

Also - let's all just chill out about getting so overzealous and over the top before these changes are even in the game! They aren't even on the PTS yet, either! Claiming that you will "never play Huttball again" before they even finalize changes is overly dramatic and makes it hard to take your other suggestions and counter-arguments seriously.

 

More rational discussion and less hyperbole and dramatics, please. We might actually get things more the way we want them if we... I dunno... discuss like adults instead of turning into trolls just when the developer feedback/interaction with us is at an all-time high about proposed changes. There is plenty of room for healthy debate and sharing ideas without bashing each other and all that other nonsense.

 

.

I won't play Huttball unless it fixed don't need to test PTS . The hole idea of Hinder was to fix Moblilty issue in the first place. I agree Hinder would of been a issue some thing needs to be done to fix team play it why were all asking to make the change of resetting the ball.

[kukumburr]

Making movement abilities drop the ball is a bad idea, since there are still plenty of people who don't realize that stealth, force camo, sorc bubble, and phase walk make you drop it. Adding more to the list will just make even more people accidently drop the ball. Plus it's basically the same thing as hinder, just less obvious and more confusing.

[Neoforcer]

Making movement abilities drop the ball is a bad idea, since there are still plenty of people who don't realize that stealth, force camo, sorc bubble, and phase walk make you drop it. Adding more to the list will just make even more people accidently drop the ball. Plus it's basically the same thing as hinder, just less obvious and more confusing.

 

None of those are accident those with ability choose to do so to not be focused. You may think it an accident but it is not. Not to say it does not happen butt people that do that be new to pvp and told hey that drops the ball.

[Rogha]

Here's a crazy idea to add some chaos and unpredictability: let a second Huttball spawn randomly. Teams would have to strategically hold back some players to defend.