Planned Warzone Changes Part 2

[MandFlurry]

Hey folks,

 

Welcome to part 2 of our planned Warzone changes for GU 5.9.2. If you haven’t already done so, we recommend you go take a look at part 1 and our upcoming matchmaking changes. The following changes focus on Huttball and Arenas, so let’s dive in:

 

Huttball (and Queshball) – We have some concerns about the dominance of Classes with movement abilities in Huttball. The proposed changes will help encourage more teamplay in the Warzone. We also want to create more situations for counterplay and competition in Huttball while ensuring all players are rewarded for their efforts.

• Carrying the Huttball now applies Hinder to the character. Hinder prevents the use of high mobility actions such as Force Charge, Force Speed, Scamper, and more.
  
• Due to the Hinder changes above players holding the Huttball will now move at 80% movement speed (up from 67%)
  
• Players can no longer catch the Huttball while stunned. This creates more opportunities for counter-play, such as intercepting passes intended for a target you stun.
  
• Adding attacker points for catching a pass from a friendly target:
  
  • Currently the thrower of the Huttball receives 500 points, but not the receiver. We will increase the receiver to gain 250 points.
    
  • We would also like a touchdown pass to award both players equally (currently the thrower gets 500 more points). Here is what the new breakdown would look like:
    
    • Thrower: 2750 Attacker Points total
      
      • 500 Attacker Points from completing pass successfully
        
      • 2250 Attacker Points for throwing a scoring pass
        

      [*]Receiver: 2750 Attacker Points total

      • 250 Attacker Points from receiving a friendly pass
        
      • 2500 Attacker Points for possessing the ball for a score
        

 

We know these changes will be pretty substantial in affecting how you play Huttball. Before we make these adjustments, we want to know your thoughts. We are getting your feedback early to see what changes we should, or should not make.

 

Arenas – There are quite a few places where players can exploit to prevent themselves from dying. We plan to address them and implement ways to penalize those players. Additionally, we wanted to take another look at how the acid mechanics work at the end of Arena matches to see if we can improve that experience for stalemates. Here are our thoughts:

• Characters who hack their way into places they shouldn’t be, such as outside the arena or in the ground, will die.
  
• Currently, acid causes characters to take 10% of their max health in damage every second, prevents stealth and all healing.
  
• Acid will now work as follows:
  
  • Characters will take 1% of their max health in damage every second and reduce all healing done/received by 2% per stack.
    
  • Characters affected by acid will begin with one stack and gain one stack per second.
    
  • Acid will still inhibit stealth.
    

 

This will mean the very end of an Arena match will now get progressively more dangerous. This gives more time for players to fight each other and counterplay, before their inevitable acid death. This should also address cases where stealth characters in particular can just CC and run away to win a match.

 

Let us know your thoughts!

 

-eric

 

 

Hello Eric, I wanted to chime in about the Huttball changes, and i know a Lot Players will end up leaving because of the hinderances of carrying the ball.While i'm not really against not being able to use Force Jump/ Charge, I am however against not being able to use Force speed, as to me it is a more natural ability with about a 2 second burst that usually does not have the Mathematical length that a Force Charge/ Jump does.

 

Please rethink this, as a lot of players will be quitting over these changes, and also because of how much longer these games will take to get done.

[TrixxieTriss]

Hello Eric, I wanted to chime in about the Huttball changes, and i know a Lot Players will end up leaving because of the hinderances of carrying the ball.While i'm not really against not being able to use Force Jump/ Charge, I am however against not being able to use Force speed, as to me it is a more natural ability with about a 2 second burst that usually does not have the Mathematical length that a Force Charge/ Jump does.

 

Please rethink this, as a lot of players will be quitting over these changes, and also because of how much longer these games will take to get done.

 

Force charge and leap are exactly the “same” for Juggs and Mara’s as force speed is for Sorcs. I would argue it’s even more important and a natural ability because it’s part of their rotation, where are force speed isn’t part of the Sorcs rotation.

 

I take from your comments that you don’t main or play a warrior class, but do play a Sorc. Maybe go play the other classes before you dismiss them in favour of your own mains abilities.

[MandFlurry]

Force charge and leap are exactly the “same” for Juggs and Mara’s as force speed is for Sorcs. I would argue it’s even more important and a natural ability because it’s part of their rotation, where are force speed isn’t part of the Sorcs rotation.

 

I take from your comments that you don’t main or play a warrior class, but do play a Sorc. Maybe go play the other classes before you dismiss them in favour of your own mains abilities.

 

Negative, I play all classes except Agent and Smuggler, i play SW and JK , along with Sorcs and Assassins, along with the Republic mirrors as well. That's just my take on how i see it.

[Gingishan]

Negative, I play all classes except Agent and Smuggler, i play SW and JK , along with Sorcs and Assassins, along with the Republic mirrors as well. That's just my take on how i see it.

 

Then u are wrong.

[BishopSMASH]

Force charge and leap are exactly the “same” for Juggs and Mara’s as force speed is for Sorcs. I would argue it’s even more important and a natural ability because it’s part of their rotation, where are force speed isn’t part of the Sorcs rotation.

 

I take from your comments that you don’t main or play a warrior class, but do play a Sorc. Maybe go play the other classes before you dismiss them in favour of your own mains abilities.

 

I'm not sure what you're trying to prove here. Since you don't even seem to be addressing his main point, which is how these abilities function in huttball, and are instead focused on these abilities purely as combat functions, I'll argue that they are not "the same" at all, and that they share importance and natural occurrence. In the sense of "rotation", they're complete opposites. Charge is a gap closer that most "naturally and rotationally" occurs as GCD 1 of combat. For sorcerers, force speed is used as a gap widener/kiting ability (instances of chasing someone down or running towards glorious combat excluded, wherein both cases it is more comparable to mad dash anyway). How many times do you leap to a sorcerer who has FS off cooldown, but he just doesn't use it because, "hey, it's the exact same as force charge right? I was gonna speed towards him but he saved me the trouble by charging to me!"

 

Now in terms of Huttball, and inferring that you play both classes, you'd know that both force speed and force charge have their situational instances where one is better than the other. If you're lucky enough to have an enemy in the end-zone, or up above you, or just through a fire trap, you've got a huge advantage with charge that force speed doesn't grant. On the other hand, force speed isn't dependent on enemies, so in the cases of being against smart players (or just a bunch of snipers/stealthers), Force Speed has an advantage that charge doesn't in that you can use it on CD. In almost every huttball match, I find my jugg is a far better ball handler with force charge and mad dash alone than a sorcerer is with force speed. (Note that I'm not even including intercede).

 

So no, they're really not at ALL the same when it comes to huttball or even PvP in general. Sure, either one can cover about 30m in a straight line. But until you're using force speed to traverse both the X and Y plane instantaneously (uphill slopes don't count), or using force charge without an enemy in sight, equating the two abilities is really flawed and just plain wrong.

Edited June 28, 2018 by BishopSMASH

[Gingishan]

BTW. Why do not give zealous leap to all jug/guardian specs, with root and unable to be dodged or paried or reflected, 20 yards range, 15 sec CD. Aditionally a bleed for all specs, uncleasable and 1 antifocus tool.

[WayOfTheWarriorx]

Negative, I play all classes except Agent and Smuggler, i play SW and JK , along with Sorcs and Assassins, along with the Republic mirrors as well. That's just my take on how i see it.

 

I was going to make an off hand comment at your suggest heh, but too late. Thing is if you are saying that other classes mobility options are fine to nix but sorcs should have thier's it certainly seems biased. Taking you at your word however, try to see from an impartial point of view. What happens when Warriors can not use thier main mobility options but Sorcs can? You make the map baised to Sorcs, them having an advantage. It'll be all about Operatives and Sorcs, which in a way it already is because of Sorc force pulls. Which than also raises the issue, what's the wiser way to deploy sorcs than? Do you keep them as is, up on high enemy side for the pull up or down below for the force speed score factor.

 

I mean, to a certain extent there are always certain classes that are particularly suited to certain maps and certain objectives [stealth as node guards for example, and Snipers in OPG] and that's fine to some degree, but this suggestion seems a bit loaded and biased.

 

I think ranged already have enough advantages over melee as it is, this is would be just one more and would favor teams with more sorcs and less warriors. Not that I care really, I think the whole idea of playing sports while people are getting killed is silly to begin with. But as there are other players to consider, and there are many who love huttball, for their sakes I think this is a questionable suggestion.

 

But given your wording, "That's just my take on it and how I see it", that's fine. You're being honest and upfront about it, merely saying that's your opinion, and I can't fault anyone that is upfront like that about a given suggestion.

 

I give you points for style heh

[WayOfTheWarriorx]

I'm not sure what you're trying to prove here. Since you don't even seem to be addressing his main point, which is how these abilities function in huttball, and are instead focused on these abilities purely as combat functions, I'll argue that they are not "the same" at all, and that they share importance and natural occurrence. In the sense of "rotation", they're complete opposites. Charge is a gap closer that most "naturally and rotationally" occurs as GCD 1 of combat. For sorcerers, force speed is used as a gap widener/kiting ability (instances of chasing someone down or running towards glorious combat excluded, wherein both cases it is more comparable to mad dash anyway). How many times do you leap to a sorcerer who has FS off cooldown, but he just doesn't use it because, "hey, it's the exact same as force charge right? I was gonna speed towards him but he saved me the trouble by charging to me!"

 

Now in terms of Huttball, and inferring that you play both classes, you'd know that both force speed and force charge have their situational instances where one is better than the other. If you're lucky enough to have an enemy in the end-zone, or up above you, or just through a fire trap, you've got a huge advantage with charge that force speed doesn't grant. On the other hand, force speed isn't dependent on enemies, so in the cases of being against smart players (or just a bunch of snipers/stealthers), Force Speed has an advantage that charge doesn't in that you can use it on CD. In almost every huttball match, I find my jugg is a far better ball handler with force charge and mad dash alone than a sorcerer is with force speed. (Note that I'm not even including intercede).

 

So no, they're really not at ALL the same when it comes to huttball or even PvP in general. Sure, either one can cover about 30m in a straight line. But until you're using force speed to traverse both the X and Y plane instantaneously (uphill slopes don't count), or using force charge without an enemy in sight, equating the two abilities is really flawed and just plain wrong.

 

There is another difference between Force Speed and Charge, I think it is pretty much common knowledge just how buggy Force Charge us trying to leap into the end zone from certain angles.

 

Whether or not Force Charge is strictly a combat only usage ability or not is questionable. Certainly it is it's main function and is mostly used for that purpose, but there are plenty of times I use it to get closer to something [an objective, near my healer whom I want to try to peel for, to mezz a stop group waiting for the ball handler, etc.] that the enemy just happens to be standing near. Not every ability is so linear.

 

Take Predation for example. I often use that as a gap closer specifically for Snipers because I can't leap to those azzhats [ = p], mostly that's not considered it's main function but it can be and under certain condition, it must be used that way because there is no other way to close the gap on a sniper in a reliable manner.

 

Smart players think out of the box. They take stock in all potential uses of any given ability, even if it's main function is obviously intended. Shouldn't let a tool tip tell you the full usage perimeters of an ability. That's what separates good players from okay players, at least so I'm told. =p

 

It's all about making the most of what you have, and as the mad scientist of the forums Rafi has shown, the value of turning lemons into lemonade. I usually just chuck them at peoples heads....the things ya learn =]

[BishopSMASH]

There is another difference between Force Speed and Charge, I think it is pretty much common knowledge just how buggy Force Charge us trying to leap into the end zone from certain angles.

 

Whether or not Force Charge is strictly a combat only usage ability or not is questionable. Certainly it is it's main function and is mostly used for that purpose, but there are plenty of times I use it to get closer to something [an objective, near my healer whom I want to try to peel for, to mezz a stop group waiting for the ball handler, etc.] that the enemy just happens to be standing near. Not every ability is so linear.

 

Take Predation for example. I often use that as a gap closer specifically for Snipers because I can't leap to those azzhats [ = p], mostly that's not considered it's main function but it can be and under certain condition, it must be used that way because there is no other way to close the gap on a sniper in a reliable manner.

 

Smart players think out of the box. They take stock in all potential uses of any given ability, even if it's main function is obviously intended. Shouldn't let a tool tip tell you the full usage perimeters of an ability. That's what separates good players from okay players, at least so I'm told. =p

 

It's all about making the most of what you have, and as the mad scientist of the forums Rafi has shown, the value of turning lemons into lemonade. I usually just chuck them at peoples heads....the things ya learn =]

 

I don’t disagree with anything you said here, because that’s rather the point that started this discussion - how do our combat abilities serve to advance objectives (in this case score the huttball) outside of their intended use. It should be common knowledge that certain abilities can be used situationally and outside of their intended, main purpose.

 

That’s why I find a flaw in stating “force speed and force charge are exactly the same”. They’re not. I listed several scenarios where charge isn’t used as a gap closer necessarily, but rather to advance the agenda of scoring (I may charge someone to get in range of a teammate to intercede to, not to start whacking the enemy in melee range.) The idea that force speed can do everything a jugg can do with charge is just not true. Let me put it this way: countless times, I’ve done a 6 second combo where I charge someone on an upper platform, force push them towards the goal, charge them again, and mad dash to score. It’s beautiful. In those same 6 seconds on a sorcerer, I can force speed ~30m closer to the goal and then... scratch and claw my way to score until the CD is up. In the same sense, there are times where my jugg can’t do anything like that because the enemy team is smart and doesn’t let me charge to them, so force speed serves a better purpose. That’s why I’m not entirely dismissive of the point that whoever it was said, wherein he felt charge was more advantageous than speed, which I agree with to an extent here.

 

And just by the by, in your predation example I’d like to point out that I’ve had several marauders try that on my sniper, and I take great amusement from leg shotting or flashbanging a freshly predationized mara from 30m away and either watching them break it and waste an ability or agonize over the wasted pred . Usually the more successful marauders circumvent that with Force Camo as their main gap closer, with pred being used after a cover pulse or leg shot+covered escape combo.

Edited June 28, 2018 by BishopSMASH

[MandFlurry]

Then u are wrong.

 

Not wrong, just like what you say is also your opinion.

[MandFlurry]

I was going to make an off hand comment at your suggest heh, but too late. Thing is if you are saying that other classes mobility options are fine to nix but sorcs should have thier's it certainly seems biased. Taking you at your word however, try to see from an impartial point of view. What happens when Warriors can not use thier main mobility options but Sorcs can? You make the map baised to Sorcs, them having an advantage. It'll be all about Operatives and Sorcs, which in a way it already is because of Sorc force pulls. Which than also raises the issue, what's the wiser way to deploy sorcs than? Do you keep them as is, up on high enemy side for the pull up or down below for the force speed score factor.

 

I mean, to a certain extent there are always certain classes that are particularly suited to certain maps and certain objectives [stealth as node guards for example, and Snipers in OPG] and that's fine to some degree, but this suggestion seems a bit loaded and biased.

 

I think ranged already have enough advantages over melee as it is, this is would be just one more and would favor teams with more sorcs and less warriors. Not that I care really, I think the whole idea of playing sports while people are getting killed is silly to begin with. But as there are other players to consider, and there are many who love huttball, for their sakes I think this is a questionable suggestion.

 

But given your wording, "That's just my take on it and how I see it", that's fine. You're being honest and upfront about it, merely saying that's your opinion, and I can't fault anyone that is upfront like that about a given suggestion.

 

I give you points for style heh

 

Don't mean it to be biased, just the way that i see things in my point of view. I play All Classes except Smuggler and Agent. The Agent and it's mirror i don't have time for right now.

 

I'm not saying i'm to O'g of Pvp and know everything, just how i feel about the Classes i play in pvp.

Edited June 30, 2018 by MandFlurry

[TrixxieTriss]

That’s why I find a flaw in stating “force speed and force charge are exactly the same”.

 

Maybe I used the wrong language to explain it, I expected people to be able to discern the difference between stating a fact and using “ “ coma’s to make a point of reference. But when you misquoted and only partly quoted the sentence and not all of it, it actually changes the meaning.

 

Force charge and leap are exactly the “same” for Juggs and Mara’s as force speed is for Sorcs

It wasn’t meant to say force speed and force charge are the same type of ability. My intention was to say that “force leap” for warrior classes is part of their main mobility options, they same as “force speed” is the main mobility option for Sorcs.

 

But add to the fact that force leap “is” part of a warriors rotation and you should be able to see why removing the ability to use it is a ridiculous notion.

Also keep in mind that Sorcs have force pull. I can’t see anyone suggesting they remove that

 

Mara’s have predation, but Juggs dont. They rely heavily on force leap and force push to be able to stay mobile in this highly mobile meta. Juggs are easily the least mobile class in the whole game. The idea that they should limit the use of their only saving grace, is so stupid that something needed to be said.

Edited June 30, 2018 by TrixxieTriss

[HyperAxiom]

Been away for a month or so and just found out about these proposed changes to Huttball and just one question... why the hell are you messing with probably the best thing created in this game's history?? I understand small tweaks to cater for advancements to new skills and abilities but the whole hinder changes are just stupid and taking a whole lot of life out of it.

 

Majority of the current playerbase don't even know (or care?) how to Huttball anyway and I can't help but feel you're just dumbing it down to cater for their inability to learn how to play it properly.

 

Ugh. Please don't.

[LordTurin]

Been away for a month or so and just found out about these proposed changes to Huttball and just one question... why the hell are you messing with probably the best thing created in this game's history?? I understand small tweaks to cater for advancements to new skills and abilities but the whole hinder changes are just stupid and taking a whole lot of life out of it.

 

Majority of the current playerbase don't even know (or care?) how to Huttball anyway and I can't help but feel you're just dumbing it down to cater for their inability to learn how to play it properly.

 

Ugh. Please don't.

 

They aren't doing anything with hinder... that was a proposed change that they decided against after community feedback.

[WayOfTheWarriorx]

Don't mean it to be biased, just the way that i see things in my point of view. I play All Classes except Smuggler and Agent. The Agent and it's mirror i don't have time for right now.

 

I'm not saying i'm to O'g of Pvp and know everything, just how i feel about the Classes i play in pvp.

 

That's totally cool. Can't expect everyone to see everything the same way and we all see things through rose colored glasses a bit, what's important to other's isn't always important to us and vice versa. We all have our preferences, we all have our favored classes and specs. And let's be honest, we're all a little biased by our point's of view heh.

 

Everyone's entitled to their opinions.

[HyperAxiom]

They aren't doing anything with hinder... that was a proposed change that they decided against after community feedback.

 

I was referring to the loss of the various mobility abilities (leap, speed, roll etc) which, from what I've read, they still intend to remove for ball carriers?

[LordTurin]

I was referring to the loss of the various mobility abilities (leap, speed, roll etc) which, from what I've read, they still intend to remove for ball carriers?

 

Nope, they nixed that after feedback (specifically they were going to apply hinder to the ball carriers, which would prevent high mobility abilities from being used).

[LeglessChair]

I think the new acid mechanics will favor classes with heals/healers.

[Rafiknoll]

I think the new acid mechanics will favor classes with heals/healers.

 

More than it does now, sure. But it this little "favor" will never be tide-turning. I mean, it will take a few seconds until heals do not work anymore, and during that time, DPS who focus on DPSING will out-damage any impaired healer, and offhealing as a DPS would clearly be waste unless your healer is already dead when acid starts.

[LeglessChair]

More than it does now, sure. But it this little "favor" will never be tide-turning. I mean, it will take a few seconds until heals do not work anymore, and during that time, DPS who focus on DPSING will out-damage any impaired healer, and offhealing as a DPS would clearly be waste unless your healer is already dead when acid starts.

 

If I understand the notes correctly healing output will be reduced by 2%/s after acid hits. So after 3 seconds that's ~ 6% healing output reduction, which isn't very much.

Edited July 1, 2018 by LeglessChair

[Rafiknoll]

If I understand the notes correctly healing output will be reduced by 2%/s after acid hits. So after 3 seconds that's ~ 6% healing output reduction, which isn't very much.

 

If both teams made it up to the acid, then both teams have equally skilled overall healing. As long as the healing reduction is low, it wouldn't make a gap between the teams, and once it is high enough, DPS will outperform the healers, and again there will be no gap between the teams, not any gap which is healing dependant, anyway.

Don't forget that the acid ticks 1% of damage and this one doesn't increase in rate. Why would I care if after 3 secs there is no visible difference?

[HyperAxiom]

Nope, they nixed that after feedback (specifically they were going to apply hinder to the ball carriers, which would prevent high mobility abilities from being used).

 

Oh snap, I didn't make it to page 24 where they posted about reverting their decision. My bad, thanks for the heads up.