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Planned Warzone Changes


EricMusco

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Awesome changes, any chance to add "hack-killer" on the first set of voidstar doors? I have seen things specifically there: people planting/diffusing from within. Will still be an endless stalemate unless these doors kill.

 

But what about the droid attack on the Wook... I mean, what about huttballs and Odessen? Anything about the desync issues?

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Ok, I think I don't understand what "tactical dying" means. Anyone care to explain this?

 

In hypergates this can refer to dying on the pylon at the end of the match, because that keeps your death from counting to the other team, and allows your team to return to thr pylon faster.

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My guess is that it means to get a character killed so that he or she can respawn at a different point, and with fresher health & energy (and without debuffs and othert things of hindrance).

 

In GSF, you can actually choose your respawn point after notes have been "secured".

Edited by AlrikFassbauer
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In hypergates this can refer to dying on the pylon at the end of the match, because that keeps your death from counting to the other team, and allows your team to return to thr pylon faster.

 

Oh I see. Like, similar (and the only time I've "stooped" to this) is trying to die before the door bomb timer goes off in VS so that you respawn "in front of" and can try to help defend the bridges, instead of respawning on the other side?

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My guess is that it means to get a character killed so that he or she can respawn at a different point, and with fresher health & energy (and without debuffs and othert things of hindrance).

 

In GSF, you can actually choose your respawn point after notes have been "secured".

 

Yeah, that make sense too. I sometimes WISH I could die in a VS so I could get back into stealth. But I've never purposely made it happen for that reason. Although, I have silently cursed my healer... "stop healing me dang it!" :p

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Characters who hack their way into the last two rooms of the Warzone before the bridge has been extended or the forcefield is down will be killed..

This was not a hack and won't happen anymore since the forcefield will stay up.

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Characters who hack their way into the last two rooms of the Warzone before the bridge has been extended or the forcefield is down will be killed

 

This doesn't require a hack, just proper knowledge of your class abilities.

 

Any class with a 30m charge can get to the other side before the bridges are extended, when someone on the other team is stupid enough to stand on the edge. A warrior or powertech doing it is obvious enough, so maybe something that pulls you out of stealth when you jump to the other side instead of using the bridge?

 

If you kill the attacking "hackers" then please also kill the defenders that use this to get back into the fight.

Edited by Mubrak
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Tactical dying is mostly a thing in hypergates, which already has deaths counting.

 

No, it happens in every node map. People flinging their body on a node to stop it from being capped then dying instantly but stalling enough for the next person to leap in and do the same. The only reason you can’t cap it is because of synced respawns. That is what is called “tactical dying”, where you are slaughtering the other team and just because of respawns you can never cap. Being “objectively rewarded” for being slaughtered should never be a good tactical objective in any pvp map. Tactical dying has 0 skill involved. If the game just make kills part of the objective in node maps like civil war, 10 min long stalemates could actually end faster. Warzones needs to punish players for poor plays, that’s why taking away points on all node maps for deaths is a great idea.

Edited by kissingaiur
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If you insist on kill the attacking "hackers" then please also kill the defenders that use this to get back into the fight.

 

Sounds fair but attackers who stand as leap-targets are far more stupid than defenders who do so because they aren't in "waiting mode" and should be actively trying to extend the bridge, so they deserve what they get :rolleyes:

 

Stealthers who jump the attackers can still wait near the forcefielded far door until the bridge is down. If the enemies are dumb they won't look at the far door that soon, if the enemy isn't dumb, it wouldn't work anyway.

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So where is the support for WorldPvP?

Right below your minimap?

That the PVP instances are the places where you can do your dailies in peace, without having to compete for quest objectives with other players, shows how popular WorldPVP really is.

 

Or are you asking for same-faction PVP? Yes, that's limited to outlaw's den and southwestern quarter of the Ilum map.

Edited by Mubrak
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No, it happens in every node map. People flinging their body on a node to stop it from being capped then dying instantly but stalling enough for the next person to leap in and do the same. The only reason you can’t cap it is because of synced respawns. That is what is called “tactical dying”, where you are slaughtering the other team and just because of respawns you can never cap. Being “objectively rewarded” for being slaughtered should never be a good tactical objective in any pvp map. Tactical dying has 0 skill involved. If the game just make kills part of the objective in node maps like civil war, 10 min long stalemates could actually end faster. Warzones needs to punish players for poor plays, that’s why taking away points on all node maps for deaths is a great idea.

 

I respectfully disagree with this. I think the people trying to cap have plenty of abilities at their disposal... slows, roots, etc, to keep the other side from getting back to the node in time to stop the cap. If the "stronger" team is too intent on "raw" DPS and can't mezz someone and wait a few seconds for their team mate to finish a cap... how is that the fault of the "tactical dying"? What I would call "smart" teams, for example, have stopped me many times to preventing a bomb plant in VS, by slowing me to a crawl as I try to swap sides in time. While other teams just continue to do "normal" dps - breaking mezzes on me and such, and I get there and stop the plant and I might die, but I stopped the plant.

 

I am often the last one at the node defending, especially in VS. I'll sit in stealth, in "reserve" if my team is getting wiped out fast, and then I'll be the last one holding off the door plant, and sometimes just enough for the spawn window to open and my team to get back there. Rinse repeat. Isn't this what you are talking about?

 

Why is that bad play? In my view it's knowing my team's weakness and trying to play around it completely within the context of how the game works. If we remove some of that, then where do we stop? If we take it to the extreme and remove any ability for the weaker team to overcome the raw-numbers strength of the other side though less-than-conventional play, then what's the point of doing anything other than parsing some numbers on a dummy and whoever puts out the best wins?

 

Maybe I'm misunderstanding... but I see "rushing in to stop a cap, even though I know I'm going to die" as a good thing if it looks like we can do that fast enough to keep the node (i.e. the other side can't actually kill us off fast enough - even though they are going to kill us off). Or, I'll jump off the cliff in OPG sometimes, to stop the other side from getting the power up I have, because I'm about to die and pass it over to them. Is that also bad tactical dying?

 

I'm not arguing that adding the 2-point death penalty is bad. It's just adding another factor to consider in the game play (just, as someone else pointed out, it is in AHG). But I don't get why adjusting my tactics to account for the fact that I'm on the weaker team is bad?

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No, it happens in every node map. People flinging their body on a node to stop it from being capped then dying instantly but stalling enough for the next person to leap in and do the same. The only reason you can’t cap it is because of synced respawns. That is what is called “tactical dying”, where you are slaughtering the other team and just because of respawns you can never cap. Being “objectively rewarded” for being slaughtered should never be a good tactical objective in any pvp map. Tactical dying has 0 skill involved. If the game just make kills part of the objective in node maps like civil war, 10 min long stalemates could actually end faster. Warzones needs to punish players for poor plays, that’s why taking away points on all node maps for deaths is a great idea.

 

Eh i wouldnt call that tsctical dying personally, thats just playing objectives. If you want kill farming where the focus is entirely on kills, go play arenas.

 

I honestly dont have an issue even with the hypergate thing i mentioned. Think smarter not harder

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Sounds fair but attackers who stand as leap-targets are far more stupid than defenders who do so because they aren't in "waiting mode" and should be actively trying to extend the bridge, so they deserve what they get :rolleyes:

 

Stealthers who jump the attackers can still wait near the forcefielded far door until the bridge is down. If the enemies are dumb they won't look at the far door that soon, if the enemy isn't dumb, it wouldn't work anyway.

 

Don't forget though that defenders who can teleport to friendlies can use that to get "back in the fight" even if no attackers are foolish enough to stand on the edge. I've seen nearly endless fights at the bridge, because the defenders had a lot of juggers and operatives who had friendly-leap abilities. Also sorc friendly pull.

 

It's easier for defenders to get back across, because their own team can help them.

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Right below your minimap?

That the PVP instances are the places where you can do your dailies in peace, without having to compete for quest objectives with other players, shows how popular WorldPVP really is.

 

Or are you asking for same-faction PVP? Yes, that's limited to outlaw's den and southwestern quarter of the Ilum map.

Wow! You have no clue. You want to PvP....'in peace'. Never leave bolstered content.

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(...)

 

The goals of these changes are:

  • To shorten the average time of our Warzones to be around 12 minutes. We have a few WZs that are taking quite a bit longer than that currently.
  • We have some WZs that are exploitable due to environment hacking, we want to fix that.

(...)

-eric

 

Eric, you have my full approval for ALL the changes you mentioned in your OP!

 

The time factor is one of the main reasons for me why I often decide to not queue at all.

 

I would even like it if you lower the time to 10 minutes! :)

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  • Dev Post
If you die by keeping at least more than one player busy with you for a while then you ARE contributing. Know that somewhere your team has a numbers advantage and will likely clear the enemies there faster because of you :)

 

But yeah I can see this not going down too well. We already have premades who just farm kills without capping anything. At least they used to let the other team have the pleasure of winning in most cases. Now, farming kills will simply give them a win unless the other team is somehow 3-capped.

 

Just to set some context on kills being worth points. Based on the way that it is balanced in the changes above, holding two points is absolutely the way you need to win. Ex: if one team is holding two points, the other is holding one and trying to farm kills, the team with two points will still win.

 

Kills being worth points will help accelerate the map and to differentiate it from Alderaan. It is not setup as a new strategy to win. Now, all of this is based on current gameplay data from the Warzone. If these changes somehow dramatically shift how people play Yavin, then things could change. Again, based on our data, killing players is still not going to be a viable strategy to win this Warzone!

 

-eric

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Hey devs!

Will the matchmaking changes also be a part of the first round of PVP changes?

 

From the summer roadmap:

>We’re taking an in-depth look at our unranked PvP matchmaking system overall to see what kinds of improvements we can make to better ensure every match is a good one.

 

Some of the WZ changes will be bad with crappy matchmaking.

Thanks!

-B

 

Based on the current schedule, matchmaking changes and the above Warzone changes will happen at the same time.

 

Details on the matchmaking changes will come in a future post.

 

-eric

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Based on the current schedule, matchmaking changes and the above Warzone changes will happen at the same time.

 

Details on the matchmaking changes will come in a future post.

 

-eric

 

Define "future" - a day? Week? Month? Year?

 

:rak_03:

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+1

 

If I can't get to someone and then knock them off the ledge and charge over to the door plant the bomb and feel like a hero, why not just put a force field completely across that area?

 

 

I thought it was open for a reason. Clarity about that would be nice.

 

Guys, I think you are misunderstanding what Eric wrote about hack.

Forcefields are now blocking the reactor room doors until the bridges are extended]Characters who hack their way into the last two rooms of the Warzone before the bridge has been extended or the forcefield is down will be killed

-eric

He isn’t talking about the bridge or leaping or holotraversing across. What he is talking about are actual hackers who go through the doors without them being capped, then fly across the bridges and through those doors to get to the reactor room, which is the last set of doors.

By making it so they can’t get to the reactor room at all till the bridges are down, it helps negate that practice.

Obviously the best solution is for every door to have a forcefield that kills you if you pass through it and the door before hasn’t been opened.

This approach with the bridges seems like a bandaid and not a fix.

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