Jump to content

Planned Warzone Changes


EricMusco

Recommended Posts

No, it happens in every node map. People flinging their body on a node to stop it from being capped then dying instantly but stalling enough for the next person to leap in and do the same. The only reason you can’t cap it is because of synced respawns. That is what is called “tactical dying”, where you are slaughtering the other team and just because of respawns you can never cap. Being “objectively rewarded” for being slaughtered should never be a good tactical objective in any pvp map. Tactical dying has 0 skill involved. If the game just make kills part of the objective in node maps like civil war, 10 min long stalemates could actually end faster. Warzones needs to punish players for poor plays, that’s why taking away points on all node maps for deaths is a great idea.

 

Technically, it's both.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Replies 322
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

Voidstar changes - We want to give the offense a much better chance of completing the objectives. We want to make Voidstar more about a race to complete the objectives as opposed to a map which often ends in a stalemate. Less stalemates will shorten the overall time of the map.

  • Door now take 6 seconds to arm (down from 8)
  • Defenders now have 15 seconds to disarm door bombs (down from 20)
  • Extending the bridges and lowering the shields now takes 6 seconds to channel (down from 8)
  • Forcefields are now blocking the reactor room doors until the bridges are extended
  • Characters who hack their way into the last two rooms of the Warzone before the bridge has been extended or the forcefield is down will be killed

Nothing like a good hacker murder-fest but what about those hacking to arm the bombs from inside the doors? Are you killing them?

Ancient Hypergates - We want running orbs to be more impactful to the WZs gameplay, with the goal of shortening each map.

  • Player corral forcefields have had their up-time reduced, the forcefield is now down for 10 seconds and up for 15 seconds (previously 30 seconds)

Are the player corral force fields the bit when we are stuck together in the centre fighting whilst the area outside resets? I did not know it had a name if I'm right.

Yavin - Further differentiate the map from Alderaan Civil War along with shortening the match time.

  • When players die they reduce their teams score by 2 (up from 0)

This will only work if the teams for unranked WZs are balanced better, otherwise whichever side has all 248 geared players will trounce the other 220-230 geared players and win by kills alone.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Are the player corral force fields the bit when we are stuck together in the centre fighting whilst the area outside resets? I did not know it had a name if I'm right.

 

He's talking about the wall around the spawn point that is frustratingly slow to come down when the enemy is capping your node :rak_03:

 

Also, two points per death is not going to outpace holding two turrets. Your third point in this post is a non-issue.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

He's talking about the wall around the spawn point that is frustratingly slow to come down when the enemy is capping your node :rak_03:

 

Also, two points per death is not going to outpace holding two turrets. Your third point in this post is a non-issue.

 

I don’t think that wall should even exist in Hutt Ball. But if it has too, I would love to see it reduced to half of what it is now.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Of all the issues to start with, these are possible the least urgent. Getting cross-faction and match-making working should take priority, and then focus on hacking and unbalanced starting matches in ranked - possible also look at ELO in general.

 

There are just so many issues that should matter more.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hey folks,

 

As Keith mentioned in the roadmap we are looking to make some Warzone changes this year, starting in July. It is our plan to try to get these on PTS as well.

 

Will you be advertising PTS sesssions on the login screen like you do for in game promotions or Cartel market stuff?

 

I think it’s important to have it there so people can see it because not everyone reads the forums to even know when the PTS is up.

 

Also, advertising some session times would be good so that you can get enough people on at the same time to do some real testing.

Edited by TrixxieTriss
Link to comment
Share on other sites

THANK YOU!!!

 

Now please add it to Civil War and Novare too!

No, it shouldn't be in Civil War. It's in Yavin to make Y and ACW *different*. Remember all the complaints that Yavin was just Civil War with leaves? Now they're trying to make it actually different, and people are complaining about that.

 

It doesn't make *sense* in Novare. How does a player's death weaken their bunker's shield? (OK, you could say the same for Yavin as well. Never mind, then.)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

My biggest concern with matches being shorter is waiting 10-20 minutes for a game and then it only lasting 8 mins.

I would rather spend those extra 2-4 mins in pvp than sitting in the queue waiting for it to pop.

I’m sure the idea is to shorten the queue times, but this will only work in the middle of primetime. Outside of the middle of prime time, I can see this making the queue time longer.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Wow! You have no clue. You want to PvP....'in peace'. Never leave bolstered content.

 

I like ganking gankers. They always look so surprised. :rolleyes:

 

But tell me, why are the PVP instances so dead that you seem to have no clue they even exist, and ask BW to add "warmode" when for all intents and purposes it always existed in SWTOR, first as PVP servers then as PVP instances? Or what are you asking for? XP-bonus when questing in PVP instances? Dedicated PVP abilities that are available only in WZs and your "warmode" instances?

Edited by Mubrak
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Looks good.

 

BTW how will match making work for premades? If 2 or 3 healers que together will it stall them out or what? Just curious how that will work because you know damn well if MM goes into regs, people are gonna try and somehow cheese it with premades.

Edited by DenariusJay
Link to comment
Share on other sites

And attitudes like this is one reason I don't PvP more. Unlike the nice persons who were encouraging and helpful, you seem to draw weird conclusions about how I play. How in the world did you assume that I don't go for objectives just because I die a lot? Being bad at PvP doesn't have to mean someone is totally clueless. Unless, of course, I actually AM totally clueless and there's some legit, non-hacky way to become immune to damage while going for objectives...
- tell it to people who said pvp on republic side is pathetic. I just taked your post to inform others that way, this times is over. No more "who have the best dmg in pvp" anymore.

 

On pvp i never argue with kids much and i NEVER leaved warzone no matter we lose or win when i get pop.

 

~ Tsukito, Alliance Commander

Edited by Trlance
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Will you guys be looking at ways to reinvigorate lowbie and mid bracket pvp?

 

This. ^

 

Low tier PVP is really abysmal now. Mids is the worst.

 

In the past we used to be able to lvl solely via PVP, from 10 to cap level. It's just a matter of having the option that means the most. For Lowbies and mids PVP to be populated again, there has to be some added incentives.

 

Right now there's zero incentive for people to queue for 10-69 PVP. This is bad.

 

If a newer player wants to learn PVP, basically they are forced to wait till 70 to hit a tier that has an active queue. A new player entering PVP without really learning their class is going to have an awful experience and most likely quit and never return to PVP.

 

It's important to give players a reason to queue 10-40, 41-69 PVP. Many people have made different suggestions how to do this too, such as rewarding unassembled parts for WZ completions in the lower tiers.

 

I am curious if BW is aware how little players participate in the lower tiers for PVP now.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Technically, it's both.

 

It means whatever apparently you think it means. My guild is the only ones I have ever heard use the phase in pvp matches and it’s literally just to describe the enemy team throwing corpses at a node over and over again to stop it from being capped. The point is that, that particular play style is rewarding players for terrible plays which shouldn’t be in the game design. If your being slaughtered in a game you should be penalized, even if it’s in defense of a node. Hence why I think in all node defending maps, kills/deaths should always count for or against you.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

That's all cool, although 5 years late.

 

What I really, really want to hear about are class changes. : {

 

Ok, just for you a sneak peak at the patch notes.

 

We're listening to you. Due to player feedback that tank classes are putting out the wrong amount of damage, Damage output has been reduced by 50% for all abilities for all tank classes.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Voidstar changes - We want to give the offense a much better chance of completing the objectives. We want to make Voidstar more about a race to complete the objectives as opposed to a map which often ends in a stalemate. Less stalemates will shorten the overall time of the map.

  • Door now take 6 seconds to arm (down from 8)
  • Defenders now have 15 seconds to disarm door bombs (down from 20)
  • Extending the bridges and lowering the shields now takes 6 seconds to channel (down from 8)
  • Forcefields are now blocking the reactor room doors until the bridges are extended
  • Characters who hack their way into the last two rooms of the Warzone before the bridge has been extended or the forcefield is down will be killed

 

I'm not sure about reducing the time to arm the door. This makes it so you either MUST have 2 people guarding a door or have a sniper/good stealth/pt with missiles guarding. This makes sap capping quite a lot easier, and it's already pretty easy. If that's the intention though to make more people have to guard I guess it's fine. But there's going to be a lot of people yelling at the poor lone person guarding the door who has no chance of stopping the cap from a stealther by themselves anymore. It also makes the strategy of "sap cap the doors then don't kill any of them just slow them as your operative/assassin race to get the next door" easier. Which just gives more of an advantage to teams with stealth and/or predation.

 

Disarm time reduction should be fine, as well as bridge time reduction. And please tell me those hack fixes will take care of the invisible/in the wall people arming bombs.

 

Ancient Hypergates - We want running orbs to be more impactful to the WZs gameplay, with the goal of shortening each map.

  • Orbs now score more points (up from 6, review below)
  • Orbs scores ramp up each round of the game:
    • Round 1 = 12 points per orb delivered
    • Round 2 = 15 points per orb delivered
    • Round 3 = 18 points per orb delivered
    • Round 4 = 21 points per orb delivered
    • Round 5 = 24 points per orb delivered
    • Round 6+ = 27 points per orb delivered

    [*]Player corral forcefields have had their up-time reduced, the forcefield is now down for 10 seconds and up for 15 seconds (previously 30 seconds)

 

I like orbs being more impactful, they always felt a bit weak compared to just killing people despite taking some effort to get so that's good. I'm not sure about the change to the forcefield time, I'd probably have to wait and see that one in action first.

 

Alderaan - Shortening the match time.

  • Turrets now damage ships for 12 damage per tick (up from 10)
  • Characters exploiting by hacking inside of the capture terminals will now die when they do so

 

I like these changes.

 

Yavin - Further differentiate the map from Alderaan Civil War along with shortening the match time.

  • Teams now start with 500 points (down from 600)
  • When players die they reduce their teams score by 2 (up from 0)
  • Characters exploiting by hacking inside of the capture terminals will now die when they do so

 

The killing thing worries me slightly but if that goes in at the same time as changes to matchmaking it should be okay. Otherwise it just makes teams that happen to have a good mix of tanks and healers vs no healers or big gear differences be able to steamroll even more than now with no chance of comeback through focusing on objectives. And the one thing I always liked about the civil war style and novare maps was that there always is a chance of coming back even if it's unlikely. So now it just seems like that'll be even harder on yavin.

 

So overall I think the changes look... okay. Hacking fixes are much needed though so that's good to see. Also as others have said it'd be great if you could try and fix some of the huttball bugs, particularly on the quesh map.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

While you're at it, could please also look into rebalancing some of the PVP achievements? While making 10,000 damage/heal in a single cast or 400,000 damage/heal per match is trivially easy, some others are insanely imbalanced.

 

I'm talking about making 10 Solo Kills, 20 Killing Blows and 55 Total Kills (in 50 matches, no less). In the current meta, it is nearly impossible to get any of those through playing regular matches (I haven't gotten any in 5 years of regular PVP). The only way to get those achievements is to deliberately ignore objectives, actively hurting your team. Not to mention that shortened match times will make them even more impossible.

 

These achievements should not be harder to get than timed NiM runs without dying once, and yet they very much are. A player can have I am Dead Incarnate for 50,000 kills in PVP, but not a single one of those (I know, I checked!). And the achievements require to repeat them 50 times across each of the 7 warzones. That's 3x7x50 = 1050 feats which are simply unobtainable unless you deliberately sabotage the match.

 

There is simply no need for such hard to accomplished feats to need to be repeated 50 times. Killing NIM Ops bosses for achievement is only required once, but even the best players have better chances of getting HM Revan/Izax kills and NiM timed run achievements than 55 Total Kills in Odessen Proving Grounds or 10 Solo Kills in Voidstar.

 

I propose the following changes:

 

Solo Kills - lower requirements from 1-5-10 to 1-2-3, or at least 1-3-5. Making one solo kill is rare enough, to get even 3 in a match without anyone else tagging your opponent or healing you, you pretty much have to go out of the way from everyone else, meaning abandoning the objectives entirely.

 

Killing Blows - lower requirements from 5-10-20 to 1-5-10. Getting 10 is more or less reasonable on a well-played DPS, but there usually simply isn't enough time to reach 20 before the match is over.

 

Total Kills - lower requirements from 25-40-50 to 10-20-30. Even in a totally one-sided match, where one team never dies at all and the other dies over and over, it is extremely rare to reach 40, while 55 is pretty much impossible without win-trading, again due to length of the match.

 

Rebalancing them across individual warzones could also be a good step. For examle, Voidstar is easiest to get 40 kills (never 55) because it goes on for 15 minues if both sides are even and all fighting is in one place. But in Odessen Proving Grounds, where a match is usually over way before the 12 minutes maximum and a lot of running is involved between the rounds, getting even 25 kills is out of reach.

 

Without rebalancing those achievements, you force a lot of achievement hunters to try and get them by actively ignoring the intended objective gameplay, frustrating their teams over and over, and even then not getting them most of the time. Is that really the intended result?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

If you die by keeping at least more than one player busy with you for a while then you ARE contributing. Know that somewhere your team has a numbers advantage and will likely clear the enemies there faster because of you :)

 

But yeah I can see this not going down too well. We already have premades who just farm kills without capping anything. At least they used to let the other team have the pleasure of winning in most cases. Now, farming kills will simply give them a win unless the other team is somehow 3-capped.

 

60-70 points isn't that bad. Or do you see more than 35 kills often?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Will you guys be looking at ways to reinvigorate lowbie and mid bracket pvp?

My plan for WorldPvP would include low-level participation. This is essential, since I asked for one conquest planet, and players are admittedly leveling there. Level-sync could be improved by extending to tertiary stats. Absolutely NO 1-shot kills.

Warmode flagging means a 15% exp/cxp buff. WOW Warmode also claims it will scale for low-levels, which for them is shocking. They created the phrase: exclusive end-game content.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

happy that you guys are thinking about pvp, greatest feature of this game :)

I like the idea with kills.

Dont like that orbs should count for more, prefere to play pvp and not run around the map glowing with thing. I dare say that biggest reason that OPG is a bust is coz of little time engaged in doing stuff ( fighting, capping nodes, getting mods), too much running is just boring.

 

Same with 6 sec cap. I get that you wanna stop the stalemates but worst thing in this game is guarding objective. One may spend entire wz doing nothing (boring). Guarding on non stealth can be hard since sap caps are possible ( especailly by 2 players ) not even call is gonna help much with 6 sec. Cant always expect stealth to guard either. Then poor fellow is the one to get blamed/told off and stuff. And truth is that its vital to be guarding objective and there is no incentive from anyone ( game or community) to do it.

 

Wondering if short cap wouldnt be better option ( 3 sec lets say ) that way recapping would be fairly ez and maybe we wouldnt have to have a guard at all ?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Same with 6 sec cap. I get that you wanna stop the stalemates but worst thing in this game is guarding objective. One may spend entire wz doing nothing (boring). Guarding on non stealth can be hard since sap caps are possible ( especailly by 2 players ) not even call is gonna help much with 6 sec. Cant always expect stealth to guard either. Then poor fellow is the one to get blamed/told off and stuff. And truth is that its vital to be guarding objective and there is no incentive from anyone ( game or community) to do it.

 

Wondering if short cap wouldnt be better option ( 3 sec lets say ) that way recapping would be fairly ez and maybe we wouldnt have to have a guard at all ?

These are a very good points. Guarding is the one thing in this game that absolutely sucks!!! It's thankless, it's stressful when attacked and it's not rewarding in any way...in fact, it's 100% the opposite...UNREWARDING. I've never met a player who "enjoyed" guarding, and for the crap they take after a cap, I don't blame anyone for not wanting to guard.

 

3 seconds is a very interesting concept though...calls would be far less important because flips would be far more common. This could change the way PvP is played in a major way.

 

I'm good with the changes, especially the lower shield times keeping players out of play. The one thing I don't see being addresses at all is Huttball's weaknesses...I'd really like to see changes that reduce the advantage some classes have...movement skills really should be addresses (leaps, rolls, rocket outs etc.).

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Just to set some context on kills being worth points. Based on the way that it is balanced in the changes above, holding two points is absolutely the way you need to win. Ex: if one team is holding two points, the other is holding one and trying to farm kills, the team with two points will still win.

 

Kills being worth points will help accelerate the map and to differentiate it from Alderaan. It is not setup as a new strategy to win. Now, all of this is based on current gameplay data from the Warzone. If these changes somehow dramatically shift how people play Yavin, then things could change. Again, based on our data, killing players is still not going to be a viable strategy to win this Warzone!

 

-eric

 

How will you combat match throwers? What about people who deliberately get into combat and /stuck instantly over and over?

Link to comment
Share on other sites


×
×
  • Create New...