Conquest Feedback and Upcoming Changes

[PorsaLindahl]

Probably as many ways as he needs to until he understands the answers? But who knows how long that will take!

 

Well, no matter how many different angles you try to smell it from, a pile of cow manure will never smell like roses?

[Costello]

To answer you quite simply: Yes. To all of the above.

 

Though most who enjoy repeating these activities to death are still doing so, for a majority of us in this thread, Conquest was the only reason we were doing that. It added a changing element of competition that gave meaning to repeating that content to death. A reason to do so that really had nothing to do with the rewards.

 

/snip

 

First off though not quoted I think you are taking umbridge of me referring to conquest as a habit forming activity as insulting. If you log in as part of your daily/weekly routine and check the conquest and play whats listed to complete the relevant activity then it is habit forming its part of your routine, same as anything you do as part of your daily routine. Same as getting up and having a cup of coffee/tea/juice whatever, its just part of my daily routine.

 

Now to what I did quote. If its not to do with the reward and I full believe thats the case what is it about conquest as an activity, which is basically giving a point score to existing content that still exists in both forms of the system so important.

 

Naturally anyone not in a guild or a large guild is in a different category as they may never get on the top of the leader board or ever have a chance to really compete. So Conquest is mainly about big guilds competing on a score board? That seems to overly simplify why people feel so passionate about it and why it gives them a reason for one more GSF match or invest all those resources in crafting.

 

I fully believe that winning and completion are powerful motivators, but if those were the driving forces then conquest would be about being in the biggest guilds. Why kill yourself knocking out 100,000 infantry supplies to compete when all you have to do is join whatever guild won last week and ride in with them.

 

Now I do believe it has a psychological element that encourages people to play one more match to get those points or one more heroic or whatever it is you like doing. What I can't see is why.

 

If its not about the reward and for 90% of people its not about guild spots as a lot of people just aren't in a position to compete. What was it that conquest had aside from people that wanted a nightmare crystal or rooms to decorate that made it worth doing on 5 alts that now means cause its not possible means the system is awful and should be rolled back.

 

Aren't those same activities that were in conquest not still in the game, can't they still be enjoyed or was it only because conquest gave points and told people to do them that they became fun? And if it was all about conquest what was it that made them fun a month ago but not fun today.

 

Cause while I'm sure new conquest is the worst thing to happen to the game since Galactic Command what I can't work out is what has actually changed with people getting to play whatever elements of the game they like and saying sod conquest I'm not going to miss some schematic and a few points on a leader board that make no difference as that 1000 member guild always wins.

[Joonbeams]

...

Now to what I did quote. If its not to do with the reward and I full believe thats the case what is it about conquest as an activity, which is basically giving a point score to existing content that still exists in both forms of the system so important.

 

...

I fully believe that winning and completion are powerful motivators, but if those were the driving forces then conquest would be about being in the biggest guilds. Why kill yourself knocking out 100,000 infantry supplies to compete when all you have to do is join whatever guild won last week and ride in with them.

 

Now I do believe it has a psychological element that encourages people to play one more match to get those points or one more heroic or whatever it is you like doing. What I can't see is why.

 

If its not about the reward and for 90% of people its not about guild spots as a lot of people just aren't in a position to compete. What was it that conquest had aside from people that wanted a nightmare crystal or rooms to decorate that made it worth doing on 5 alts that now means cause its not possible means the system is awful and should be rolled back.

 

Aren't those same activities that were in conquest not still in the game, can't they still be enjoyed or was it only because conquest gave points and told people to do them that they became fun? And if it was all about conquest what was it that made them fun a month ago but not fun today.

 

...

 

Why should this matter? Activity levels are down. No one denies this. I've stopped logging in myself because queues weren't popping - hanging out here instead:p. Even the devs have acknowledged problems. What does it matter what the reasons are for people not enjoying this when everyone is emphatically saying they don't enjoy this and many are expressing this with their reduced play? Much of this content was released in 2011, unchanged. Many of the people playing it, have been doing so since then too. That's a long time. I know people who have married, divorced, and remarried since then. BW had managed to figure out a way to keep this old content refreshing, and then managed to bork that for some bizarre reason. The game has suffered, needlessly. So why does it matter?

 

Sometimes the answers are pretty simple, and don't require excessive pontification...

[PennyAnn]

First off though not quoted I think you are taking umbridge of me referring to conquest as a habit forming activity as insulting. If you log in as part of your daily/weekly routine and check the conquest and play whats listed to complete the relevant activity then it is habit forming its part of your routine, same as anything you do as part of your daily routine. Same as getting up and having a cup of coffee/tea/juice whatever, its just part of my daily routine.

 

Now to what I did quote. If its not to do with the reward and I full believe thats the case what is it about conquest as an activity, which is basically giving a point score to existing content that still exists in both forms of the system so important.

 

Naturally anyone not in a guild or a large guild is in a different category as they may never get on the top of the leader board or ever have a chance to really compete. So Conquest is mainly about big guilds competing on a score board? That seems to overly simplify why people feel so passionate about it and why it gives them a reason for one more GSF match or invest all those resources in crafting.

 

I fully believe that winning and completion are powerful motivators, but if those were the driving forces then conquest would be about being in the biggest guilds. Why kill yourself knocking out 100,000 infantry supplies to compete when all you have to do is join whatever guild won last week and ride in with them.

 

Now I do believe it has a psychological element that encourages people to play one more match to get those points or one more heroic or whatever it is you like doing. What I can't see is why.

 

If its not about the reward and for 90% of people its not about guild spots as a lot of people just aren't in a position to compete. What was it that conquest had aside from people that wanted a nightmare crystal or rooms to decorate that made it worth doing on 5 alts that now means cause its not possible means the system is awful and should be rolled back.

 

Aren't those same activities that were in conquest not still in the game, can't they still be enjoyed or was it only because conquest gave points and told people to do them that they became fun? And if it was all about conquest what was it that made them fun a month ago but not fun today.

 

Cause while I'm sure new conquest is the worst thing to happen to the game since Galactic Command what I can't work out is what has actually changed with people getting to play whatever elements of the game they like and saying sod conquest I'm not going to miss some schematic and a few points on a leader board that make no difference as that 1000 member guild always wins.

 

Something about the way you said it made it "dismissive". If you didn't mean it to be, then fair enough. It was perhaps a habit of some that has now been taken away for really... what reason? The stated design goals are clearly not it, because nothing that they have done to the system has accomplished a single one of them. Having a reason to log into a game is not something to be dismissive about, and for many... that reason was conquest. That "habit" was conquest. Their routine revolved around conquest.

 

For you to ask why would require each individual to respond for themselves, and honestly I think you'll find the answers by reading the 300+ pages of feedback in any number of threads around here.

 

I've tried to explain to you some of the potential reasons that the system was an important addition to the content that is "already there". I cannot speak for everyone, so saying it has nothing to do with the reward is only accurate for ME. For many, as you would see if you read the feedback in the threads, it absolutely IS about the rewards (if they are trying to expand their guild ship, or just make a little extra pocket money, or a little more jawa junk to spend on gifts to level companions or crafting materials).

 

I have already answered you in terms of what it is about conquest that gives a point score and bonus rewards to already existing activities that made it so important to some. What's funny is that in asking the question, you've answered it yourself. It gives a point score and competition angle to repeating old content. It ADDS that. It gives bonus rewards for completing existing activities. It ADDS that. At least it used to. But again, that may mean nothing to you, but hundreds of pages of feedback kinda shows otherwise to those that aren't you.

 

The previous system provided a mechanism for smaller guilds to compete with large guilds via playing alts. The new system destroyed that. Now, it is mainly about big guilds competing on a score board. But they don't have any competition really. That went away in the new system. Any spirit of competition or the David and Goliath factor is gone. Again, this might not be your bag, but that does not mean it has no merit for others.

 

Winning and completion were driving forces for ALL guilds, because due to the fact that you could play alts to simulate the big guild's membership numbers, you could compete. Now, you cannot. The tire is fully deflated and the big guilds will win all with no competition from anyone. Now the only choice you have is to give up and join them. For many, even the simple fact that the choice to compete was taken away was enough call this new system bad and play the game less (or not at all).

 

At the end of the day, you don't HAVE to see the "why". The developers do though, and they clearly are missing the point just as you are (perhaps willfully). When you suffer longer queue times for whatever activity it is that you play in the game and queue for, does it really matter why to you as a player? If so, then read hundreds of pages of feedback explaining exactly why and try to put yourself in someone else's shoes. It's pretty well explained in explicit detail all over the place here.

 

.

Edited April 11, 2018 by PennyAnn

[PennyAnn]

Why should this matter? [sNIP]

 

Sometimes the answers are pretty simple, and don't require excessive pontification...

 

What, you don't want a masters thesis in psychology level explanation of why people are overwhelmingly unhappy? Excessive pontification is the new EXCITING!

[JediJoy]

At the end of the day, a lot of the opinion about the new conquest is just opinion. But what is not opinion is that it has been overwhelmingly receiving negative feedback here, and a very small handful of individuals have had anything good to say about it. Even in the microcosm of the game that is the forums, it is lopsided in favor of "I hate it", "I'm not participating until this is fixed/changed", and in a lot of cases "The older system was better, revert to the older system" or even "I have cancelled my sub over this". I agree with TUX on this part - it is actively hurting the game.

 

Playing devil's advocate means you are advocating for what you admittedly call the devil. You don't really need me to explain to you why that will see you receiving push-back from those who absolutely are not in support of the devil. In this case, the devil = A changed conquest system that isn't even meeting the goals as stated by the developers who created and released it into the game. I don't consider the developers themselves devils, insulting them has never been something I've found any merit in and is usually just frustration talking. But this system, please know, IS the devil that we are currently fighting to send back to the depths of hell.

 

Now, it is clear that the forums represent a small portion of the player base, especially those that regularly post here. But I've seen people posting about how much they hate conquest that I have never seen post here before. Or that claim this is the first time they have posted here. I have checked the posting history of some of those people who I have never seen around here before, but that make pretty good (and reasoned) arguments about why conquest is not enjoyable anymore. And you know what? There are a ton of people who have never had reason to post here before that are unhappy about conquest enough to come do so! That says a lot to me! People who are happy playing the game do not post here, they are off happily playing the game.

 

That so many people are unhappy enough to come here and post about it, some for the very first time, and expand the usual "microcosm" of players to include so many more people is reason enough that you might want to reconsider defending what is obviously harming player morale and the game at large. Sometimes, the devil doesn't deserve an advocate. I won't try to tell you what to do here, because you have every right to post here just like anybody else (so long as you follow the rules). And I see what you're trying to do, but I don't think it serves to do anything but enrage those who are already enraged, or cause those of us capable of rational discourse to wonder, "Why is this guy defending such a broken system that is actively hurting a game we all love?".

 

If I could see a clear design goal being met by the developers, it would at least make a little more sense. But I see none. I only see unhappy people playing the game less and less, to the point of unsubscribing. I see myself even wavering, and I was gonna be here until the lights went out no matter what. It takes a pretty serious negative change to the base game for me to push me to this type of consideration. But here it is.

 

 

 

 

Well said, as always. No matter what they do, no matter what defense they receive from devil's advocates here, when anything they do to the game = less people playing or discouraging people to play... it only harms the game.

 

To be okay with the way the new conquest system works is to be okay with the fact that it is harming the game by diminishing the population. I won't go so far as to say that it will "kill the game" because I don't think that it necessarily will. At least not immediately. But how long are the people who don't care about conquest at all willing to wait for a GSF or PvP or Group Finder queue? How long before the diminished population playing the game due to the conquest changes starts having enough effect that they are playing less of this game, too?

 

And all for a system that no one even really understands WHY it was changed to be this way in the first place. The stated goals + the implementation do not add up to anything that makes any sense. If they wanted us to play alts less, why aren't they saying so? Did they really think too many people were receiving the rewards that many in these threads have called "worthless" in trying to understand why anyone is upset with the new system being less rewarding? Were we getting too much jawa junk? Was it causing an imbalance in the game's economy to have an individual be able to get 5 or 6 sets (or more) of those rewards? If the points on the board were so high that no one could catch up to certain guilds, why is it better to make it so that no one but them can even get to those threshholds?

 

It just all makes absolutely no sense. And no matter who defends it here, until the developers address the disparity in the stated goals and the implementation, we are going to continue to scratch our heads and quit playing the game as much, or at all. No bueno.

 

.

 

PennyAnn, you are on a roll! Very well said!

 

I have tried my best in the past to focus on the positive. I normally see change as a good thing. I've always said that no matter what the devs threw at us, I would remain loyal to my community and stick it out til the bitter end.

 

Like you, Im second in command of a small community, the encourager of group activity and "mama bear" esk of my guild. I love all aspects of SWTOR (even gsf). It takes incredible dedication to remain loyal to a game with so little new content. I agree completely that conquest was the sole purpose for a lot of us to continue to repeat the same old content.

 

Crafting was our passion and we were good at it. We fought the impossible by producing more points than the large guilds we competed against. The majority of our crazy numbers were strictly to beat our last score and to push the limits.

 

My sub is on its last few days. I have recently made the choice to eat my words and leave swtor along with the majority of our guildies. Its sad that ive read through hundreds and hundreds of pages of really great feedback all voicing the similar concerns; yet barely any response from musco or the devs or keith. They cant keep throwing band-aids at a festering open wound.

 

I truly wish you all the best,

 

Sara'dominique

Intergalactic Imperium

 

ps. WoW has flying mounts..... js

[PennyAnn]

PennyAnn, you are on a roll! Very well said!

 

I have tried my best in the past to focus on the positive. I normally see change as a good thing. I've always said that no matter what the devs threw at us, I would remain loyal to my community and stick it out til the bitter end.

 

Like you, Im second in command of a small community, the encourager of group activity and "mama bear" esk of my guild. I love all aspects of SWTOR (even gsf). It takes incredible dedication to remain loyal to a game with so little new content. I agree completely that conquest was the sole purpose for a lot of us to continue to repeat the same old content.

 

Crafting was our passion and we were good at it. We fought the impossible by producing more points than the large guilds we competed against. The majority of our crazy numbers were strictly to beat our last score and to push the limits.

 

My sub is on its last few days. I have recently made the choice to eat my words and leave swtor along with the majority of our guildies. Its sad that ive read through hundreds and hundreds of pages of really great feedback all voicing the similar concerns; yet barely any response from musco or the devs or keith. They cant keep throwing band-aids at a festering open wound.

 

I truly wish you all the best,

 

Sara'dominique

Intergalactic Imperium

 

ps. WoW has flying mounts..... js

 

Intergalactic Imperium was always a great competitor. When I was running BBB and it came to crafting week, you were always one of the guilds to watch. That competition was thrilling, even when we got beat (which did happen after a well placed crafting bomb - and served as a lesson learned ever thereafter!).

 

Many really do not get that there are so many of us that got a really great jolt from that very competition. Staying up until reset to just keep putting points on the board in effort to win or to stay on top was something I've done more times than I can count, even since I've left BBB and am now running a much smaller more family-focused guild.

 

Much respect to you and your guild members. Sad to see this game lose another excellent group of people. My best to you!

 

ps - I just earned Legion flying... <3

[Joonbeams]

What, you don't want a masters thesis in psychology level explanation of why people are overwhelmingly unhappy? Excessive pontification is the new EXCITING!

 

Ha - Let's not give the devs any more catch phrases!

[-JE-BLAZAR-]

Thank you for trying your best with voicing your concerns JediJoy, it is appreciated. And al the best luck to you.

 

I agree they should revert this change, I do not bother also to do conquest anymore, and same for most of my guild.

What do you guys think if PVP gear comes back? They said they will make that now, since last stream, eventhough they complained about it it is hard to make. I think they make another great mistake with this. If you want to know why, read this forum thread we disccussed last few weeks:

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=946865

 

But it is about that the 1 gear system is great (more cargo space/ less of an roadblock switching between PVP/PVE gear), the only bad part of it was at first when 5.0 came out that it was too grindy, now bioware wants us back to grinding 2 gears again, with the problems that PVP players have trouble to PVE when they want and vice versa. And we need to have 2 gears to carry around if you want to do both parts of the game (so it will require more inventory slots).

 

More importantly I certainly think because PVE'ers where in the past less eager to queue&go into for PVP because of this gear issue (and you can think but we had a lot of pops! but that because there where more players in the game back then), so if we reintroduce this roadblock again into the game with an lower population that we will get even more of an problem for PVP queues. This is not good. I would think almost because they said in stream it is hard to make (so by admmitting it upfront), that they are in some unconscious way hoping we will answer, ''yes please cancel it''. If that is so, please please do so! Because why on earth are you working on what you admit what is to to much of an effort/ spending so much time to make for a new complete systems to the game what we time and again proof we do not like!? And needs months afther that tweaking to go to an sweet spot we all prefer (but the damage is then done). Imo if you do not stop with this new project, then I think it will be the same way as what you did to Conquest + you spend to much unnessary time and effort.. I do not trust bioware with this anymore, and I have the right to say so, if you wonder why think what they did? Like I said before, considering the 2 years of changes they did, and wanting us to grind for a long time (as long as possible), there is 9/10 chance it will be again super grindy, and not thought true what consequences it will bring. Time and time again they proof this. That is painful to see.

So please people, we must ask them to talk openly about their plans before this goes again to far, and spend unnecessary time & effort again on what something we probably do not like. This can be used elsewhere (like for new content for a new warzone map/ops/story or whatever). Next time we need to hear from bioware what they want to do,so they can hear from us if we like it or not, before they implement their changes, otherwise we will be continue on this downward spiral. I am sure we can do this but we must break this dilemma, can we not while we login to the game click on an menu where they can ask with an Poll what we like or not? I mean they did this before a few times with an email, I appreciated this, this should be done more.

 

Anyways I would like to hear what you guys think of what I said before (check the link read it what we discussed in PVP forums) and to be short, we should keep with the systems we have/had in the game, and just tweak it like they did it with Galactic command (imo this needs also a bit more tweaking but not an major overhaul again what they did to the other parts of the game).

 

And sorry if I talk with a long text, but I am tired and want to post before I forget it. Greets and peace.

Edited April 11, 2018 by -JE-BLAZAR-

[JediJoy]

SNIP

 

Naturally anyone not in a guild or a large guild is in a different category as they may never get on the top of the leader board or ever have a chance to really compete. So Conquest is mainly about big guilds competing on a score board? That seems to overly simplify why people feel so passionate about it and why it gives them a reason for one more GSF match or invest all those resources in crafting.

 

I fully believe that winning and completion are powerful motivators, but if those were the driving forces then conquest would be about being in the biggest guilds. Why kill yourself knocking out 100,000 infantry supplies to compete when all you have to do is join whatever guild won last week and ride in with them.

 

SNIP

 

For solo players, they are after the personal rewards.

 

For small guilds, conquest prior to 5.8, getting on the board was much more possible than it is today. Winning a planet wasnt as impossible as some have stated. Heck just last year, on Total Galactic War (crafting week), we helped 5 smaller guilds win planets (along with our imp and pub guild) just by doing the min needed to cap.

 

For some, encryptions are their incentives for competing in conquest. For my guild, our ship was already fully unlocked; we were in it to win it (said in the best texas twang). Having our name on the board each week and across the planet on the weeks we won was a huge morale boost. Its also a great way to get your name out there.

 

Conquest prior to 5.8 wasnt all about which big guild won which week. Small to medium sized guilds actually had a chance to win too. It was much more alt friendly which helped the smaller guilds more than it did the larger ones. A lot of the "huge" guilds were packed and had alt limits while smaller ones didnt.

 

After each win, we had an influx of new members. We chose to focus on quality vs quantity; we chose to remain small. In the system that is in place now, we are severely punished for this. Now there is absolutely ZERO chance for us to win nonetheless stay on the board. It made all 30 of my alts useless and the millions of credits invested wasted.

 

You have asked several times... "Why conquest?", both Penny and Porse have very well thought out replies that I completely agree with. When you have played this game as long as we have... the content becomes old. Conquest (prior to 5.8) was a great incentive to keep us replaying the same old content each day. It gave us a goal to work towards, competition to keep it fun and rewarded us for playing the same old content, while we waited for each new expansion to arrive. It encouraged guild activity and rewarded solo play as well; literally no one was left out of the party.

 

Until you wake up at 3am on a Monday morning just to cash in those few extra conquest points that helps your guild win first... with everyone sleep deprived and cheering deliriously; you sir will never get what the old conquest system meant for small guilds.

[-JE-BLAZAR-]

For solo players, they are after the personal rewards.

 

For small guilds, conquest prior to 5.8, getting on the board was much more possible than it is today. Winning a planet wasnt as impossible as some have stated. Heck just last year, on Total Galactic War (crafting week), we helped 5 smaller guilds win planets (along with our imp and pub guild) just by doing the min needed to cap.

 

For some, encryptions are their incentives for competing in conquest. For my guild, our ship was already fully unlocked; we were in it to win it (said in the best texas twang). Having our name on the board each week and across the planet on the weeks we won was a huge morale boost. Its also a great way to get your name out there.

 

Conquest prior to 5.8 wasnt all about which big guild won which week. Small to medium sized guilds actually had a chance to win too. It was much more alt friendly which helped the smaller guilds more than it did the larger ones. A lot of the "huge" guilds were packed and had alt limits while smaller ones didnt.

 

After each win, we had an influx of new members. We chose to focus on quality vs quantity; we chose to remain small. In the system that is in place now, we are severely punished for this. Now there is absolutely ZERO chance for us to win nonetheless stay on the board. It made all 30 of my alts useless and the millions of credits invested wasted.

 

You have asked several times... "Why conquest?", both Penny and Porse have very well thought out replies that I completely agree with. When you have played this game as long as we have... the content becomes old. Conquest (prior to 5.8) was a great incentive to keep us replaying the same old content each day. It gave us a goal to work towards, competition to keep it fun and rewarded us for playing the same old content, while we waited for each new expansion to arrive. It encouraged guild activity and rewarded solo play as well; literally no one was left out of the party.

 

Until you wake up at 3am on a Monday morning just to cash in those few extra conquest points that helps your guild win first... with everyone sleep deprived and cheering deliriously; you sir will never get what the old conquest system meant for small guilds.

 

 

I agree, this really messed up the feeling I feel to just grind some more few points to let my guild win, it ruined the emmersion anyways. The previous design was better done and worked. Btw what do you think of the points what I said in my previous post Jedijoy?

[JediJoy]

Intergalactic Imperium was always a great competitor. When I was running BBB and it came to crafting week, you were always one of the guilds to watch. That competition was thrilling, even when we got beat (which did happen after a well placed crafting bomb - and served as a lesson learned ever thereafter!).

 

Many really do not get that there are so many of us that got a really great jolt from that very competition. Staying up until reset to just keep putting points on the board in effort to win or to stay on top was something I've done more times than I can count, even since I've left BBB and am now running a much smaller more family-focused guild.

 

Much respect to you and your guild members. Sad to see this game lose another excellent group of people. My best to you!

 

ps - I just earned Legion flying... <3

 

Penny,

 

Thank you for your kind words, that truly means a lot to me. Competing against BBB was very hard, we got lucky on a couple wins against you in the earlier days; not so lucky once you got your members on the crafting train. lol Sleep deprivation was our forte lol Competition during crafting weeks was quite intense and definitely kept us on our toes. The thrill of the craft bomb was beyond euphoric.

 

Looks like swtor is losing two groups of excellent players! Much respect for you and yours as well.

 

PS... I HATE YOU! <3 LOL seriously, Im so close to Legion flying its just not funny anymore lol If youre ever on Windrunner, look up "Intergalactic Exodus" and give me a shout.

[JediJoy]

I agree, this really messed up the feeling I feel to just grind some more few points to let my guild win, it ruined the emmersion anyways. The previous design was better done and worked. Btw what do you think of the points what I said in my previous post Jedijoy?

 

To be honest, Im torn about the pvp gearing. I was against them going to the same gearing system as pve in the first place (removing accuracy is a pain). The ques are slowing down due to the conquest restrictions and lack of active players wanting to play that particular content and they are just going to get worse. Personally, I never rocked all pvp gear prior to the change because I only went into unranked matches and did so casually for fun. You do have a valid point that with pvp gear added again, it will deter even more people away from queing up.

[PorsaLindahl]

To be honest, Im torn about the pvp gearing. I was against them going to the same gearing system as pve in the first place (removing accuracy is a pain). The ques are slowing down due to the conquest restrictions and lack of active players wanting to play that particular content and they are just going to get worse. Personally, I never rocked all pvp gear prior to the change because I only went into unranked matches and did so casually for fun. You do have a valid point that with pvp gear added again, it will deter even more people away from queing up.

 

Expertise was one of the worst things ever introduced to the game. It was complained about in beta and after launch. It's one of the few things I'm happy to see gone from the game.

[BRKMSN]

What made the old system better?

 

I get that it was often easier to meet the target, the target was also seldom legacy restricted and the choice of actions often included a few more choices.

 

I agree that this week seems awful and is almost completely focused on group content. I also get that some people would say all content should be forced group content cause this is an MMO. This isn't my view but given how much time has been devoted to group activities in 2017 and start of 2018, that may be Keith and the devs teams view. So if you don't like group content your probably not going to like 2018. Which I think is a valid criticism of the current design and the direction the game is going in.

 

But what was it about being able to get points on alts and some reward which may or may not have much impact on the gameplay that made it as a system so much better. Saying there isn't enough content, not enough content you like, the story has gone bad, loss of favourite companion, no open world PvP, poor space experience etc etc I can see as valid reasons to say this game is done, good bye.

 

However it appears that for many the changes to conquest are where the issue lies. And like I say each to their own and everyone should be able to play the game how they want, even if its sitting on Nar Shaddar saying how war criminals turn them on. What is it about the old system and being able to get points on multiple characters in a legacy, to get rewards you don't need and have plenty of that made a change so game breaking. Is it really about the Jawa junk and whatever that purple crafting material?

 

Now please don't think I'm defending the change to conquest, I'm not. But given the state of the game and the story and the resources being spent to Anthem, any of this I could understand quitting over. But its harder to see why conquest is that game breaking cause the rewards just don't seem that important so completing it multiple times a week doesn't seem to be that vital. Or is there something else that makes it an integral part of the game.

I highlighted a couple things in your reply. What isn't important to you, may be important to someone else. If you're struggling to understand people's reactions, it's because you only see things from your own perspective. People have been explaining things over and over . This thread has moved from "feedback" to just plain, old-fashioned regurgitation. If people didn't care, they wouldn't be complaining.

Edited April 11, 2018 by BRKMSN

[JediJoy]

Expertise was one of the worst things ever introduced to the game. It was complained about in beta and after launch. It's one of the few things I'm happy to see gone from the game.

 

I think they meant for it to replace accuracy. Youre absolutely correct, a lot of people were upset when they added it. However a few of my friends who are hardcore pvp'ers liked that it set them apart from the pve'ers other than that they had nothing good to say about the expertise system. With as little as I have the opportunity to pvp, I dont have a leg to stand on in this argument. All I can do is hope that the devs actually listen to the majority of the hardcore pvp'ers.

[TrixxieTriss]

Here's a bigger irony; there's still people out there who claim to be gamers but who understand so little about games and gamers that they still think "difficult" = "grindy as hell".

 

Unfortunately for SWTOR players the Bioware Devs seem to be firmly entrenched among that group.

 

 

All The Best

 

I have to agree.

Hard doesn’t mean grind or difficult to achieve conquest points because they won’t you to do more bring for the same thing.

Harder means making fights more difficult, making sure companions aren’t so OP that you can spam force storm and not take any damage from 10 mobs hitting you (exaggeration to make a point).

Harder means tougher mechanics, not making the fight longer because the NPC has just their health put up

Harder means learning tactics and strategy that make you think.

Harder means making sure you know how to gear and not have lvl since do all the work.

Harder means having to actually know what each of your class abilities are and having to actually use them instead of spamming one or two.

[ivanhedgehog]

Ah the good old days of hardcore gaming. Bring back the MMOs that is ALL world PvP and when you die the enemy loots ALL your possesions and you lose 1/3 of your experience points (yes, you lose levels). That was an adrenaline rush, today's games are fine for snowflakes, but snowflakes wouldn't have lasted 1 minute in the _real_ days of gaming.

 

funny thing is. those kinds of games today fail financially in a spectacular fashion. There isnt a market for that kind of game.

[TrixxieTriss]

funny thing is. those kinds of games today fail financially in a spectacular fashion. There isnt a market for that kind of game.

 

Yeah, no one likes to lose their stuff. If it wasn’t for that one factor, they would be more popular than they are. But that’s not the only reason they don’t work. Part of the problem has always been MMOs have gear grind and different people in higher gear have always been able to troll others in lesser gear. It’s never been a lvl playing field. You also have the situation where people who want to get on with doing some quests and don’t feel up to or want to pvp that day, can’t avoid pvp in games like those, so that just means not playing them when you feel like that,

[PennyAnn]

Penny,

 

Thank you for your kind words, that truly means a lot to me. Competing against BBB was very hard, we got lucky on a couple wins against you in the earlier days; not so lucky once you got your members on the crafting train. lol Sleep deprivation was our forte lol Competition during crafting weeks was quite intense and definitely kept us on our toes. The thrill of the craft bomb was beyond euphoric.

 

Looks like swtor is losing two groups of excellent players! Much respect for you and yours as well.

 

PS... I HATE YOU! <3 LOL seriously, Im so close to Legion flying its just not funny anymore lol If youre ever on Windrunner, look up "Intergalactic Exodus" and give me a shout.

 

I'm not on that server, but if I ever cross queue (another feature I love from WoW) I will definitely look you up!

[Tarbuch]

Ask yourself if conquest didnt exist at all, would people queue?

 

I only started doing group activities because of conquest, before conquests I was only a solo player, doing the class stories.

 

Since most of the conquest targets are now legacy locked to one per day, and my alts can't contribute to conquest at all after the legacy lock kicks in. I stopped playing alts, and when I saw how miniscule the rewards were from the few repeatable activities I stopped playing completely.

My sub ran out on 30th Mar, I did not renew it (don't know how I am still able to post without active subscription).

 

Because of these legacy locks I cannot contribute to both Imp and Rep guilds, I have no idea how BioFail imagined these changes would be perceived as positive.

I work for a living and play games to relax, not to have another full time job in order to complete conquest target points.

I can only see one goal BioFail is trying to achieve with doing orbital strike to conquest system, than to de-incentivise people from playing the game so that they can shut the servers down sooner.

However this seems to be the normal behaviour from BW, orbital strike first, then slow walk changes back in 6 to 12 months.

 

All the best for those that can after the absolute destruction of the conquest system.

[Tarbuch]

In your very post, you attribute a non-Conquest factor as contributing to a smaller playerbase (specifically, "class changes"). The drop from 17 servers to 5 (and from 200 or whatever to 17) also happened long before New Conquest, making it pretty silly blaming Conquest on such a move.

 

The fall from grace (200 > 17 > 5) is not due to conquest it is a compound from all of the inept decisions made by BW/EA from 2011 to 2018.

 

1st drop of players was due to lack of end game content.

F2P brought some players back

2nd big drop was to drip release KOTFE/KOTET over 2 years, which required grind of old content to unlock 20+ new companions which are lifeless versions of the original companions.

3rd massive drop was the 5.0 aka RNG® is exciting Command Rank grind

 

This is where we are now @ 5 servers world wide from 200 @ launch.

 

At no point has the development/game design team accepted any culpability of their poor design choices, and their hubris seems to force them to double down on EVERY major bad design choices.

 

There were other evacuations, i.e. PvP server death spiral because of redesign of all servers having PvE and PvP instances, promoting players to leave the PvP servers in droves leaving them as ghost towns.

Everything is always players fault, for not playing the way the grand design is dictating.

 

All the best

[TUXs]

The fall from grace (200 > 17 > 5) is not due to conquest it is a compound from all of the inept decisions made by BW/EA from 2011 to 2018.

 

1st drop of players was due to lack of end game content.

F2P brought some players back

2nd big drop was to drip release KOTFE/KOTET over 2 years, which required grind of old content to unlock 20+ new companions which are lifeless versions of the original companions.

3rd massive drop was the 5.0 aka RNG® is exciting Command Rank grind

 

This is where we are now @ 5 servers world wide from 200 @ launch.

 

At no point has the development/game design team accepted any culpability of their poor design choices, and their hubris seems to force them to double down on EVERY major bad design choices.

 

There were other evacuations, i.e. PvP server death spiral because of redesign of all servers having PvE and PvP instances, promoting players to leave the PvP servers in droves leaving them as ghost towns.

Everything is always players fault, for not playing the way the grand design is dictating.

 

All the best

Fantastic reply!!!!

[greenMne]

The fall from grace (200 > 17 > 5) is not due to conquest it is a compound from all of the inept decisions made by BW/EA from 2011 to 2018.

 

1st drop of players was due to lack of end game content.

F2P brought some players back

2nd big drop was to drip release KOTFE/KOTET over 2 years, which required grind of old content to unlock 20+ new companions which are lifeless versions of the original companions.

3rd massive drop was the 5.0 aka RNG® is exciting Command Rank grind

 

This is where we are now @ 5 servers world wide from 200 @ launch.

 

At no point has the development/game design team accepted any culpability of their poor design choices, and their hubris seems to force them to double down on EVERY major bad design choices.

 

There were other evacuations, i.e. PvP server death spiral because of redesign of all servers having PvE and PvP instances, promoting players to leave the PvP servers in droves leaving them as ghost towns.

Everything is always players fault, for not playing the way the grand design is dictating.

 

All the best

 

I wish there could be a like button on this post

Edited April 12, 2018 by greenMne

[Lhancelot]

The fall from grace (200 > 17 > 5) is not due to conquest it is a compound from all of the inept decisions made by BW/EA from 2011 to 2018.

 

1st drop of players was due to lack of end game content.

F2P brought some players back

2nd big drop was to drip release KOTFE/KOTET over 2 years, which required grind of old content to unlock 20+ new companions which are lifeless versions of the original companions.

3rd massive drop was the 5.0 aka RNG® is exciting Command Rank grind

 

This is where we are now @ 5 servers world wide from 200 @ launch.

 

At no point has the development/game design team accepted any culpability of their poor design choices, and their hubris seems to force them to double down on EVERY major bad design choices.

 

There were other evacuations, i.e. PvP server death spiral because of redesign of all servers having PvE and PvP instances, promoting players to leave the PvP servers in droves leaving them as ghost towns.

Everything is always players fault, for not playing the way the grand design is dictating.

 

All the best

 

The most frustrating thing is they have the resources and development skills to make the game better.

 

If they really took player feedback seriously especially with regards to what players explain is fun for them, over time the game would bring in more players and keep long time veterans but what they have is a constant turnover of players due to bad design choices that generally are found to NOT be fun in the game.