Paulsutherland Posted March 11, 2018 Share Posted March 11, 2018 Honestly, I would have settled for having the option to give her some kind words, but we're kind of past that, now. Sith Voodoo ... then you can say nice things to her Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gamephil Posted March 11, 2018 Share Posted March 11, 2018 Sith Voodoo ... then you can say nice things to her When we come to the point that Sith Voodoo is our last, best hope, things are pretty bad. But, here we are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paulsutherland Posted March 11, 2018 Share Posted March 11, 2018 When we come to the point that Sith Voodoo is our last, best hope, things are pretty bad. But, here we are. Those who mock the Sith Voodoo, become the Sith Voodoo ... now take off your clothes and get on the alter! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gamephil Posted March 11, 2018 Share Posted March 11, 2018 Those who mock the Sith Voodoo, become the Sith Voodoo ... now take off your clothes and get on the alter! Wait! I'm not mocking, I'm saying "Sith Voodoo" and "hope" even being in the same sentence feels wrong. Plus, I don't want to be a sacrifice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paulsutherland Posted March 11, 2018 Share Posted March 11, 2018 Wait! I'm not mocking, I'm saying "Sith Voodoo" and "hope" even being in the same sentence feels wrong. Plus, I don't want to be a sacrifice. Awww, I really shouldn't have made this sacrificial thing optional. On a different note, VitateArt is doing another piece for me, and it's coming with a story Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackvinils Posted March 11, 2018 Share Posted March 11, 2018 Does anyone here want to romance Vaylin or just have her as a "platonic" companion? Well, I guess it's too early to talk about romance with her until she comes back, so... However, yeah, I'd leave a couple of characters for romance. #Arcann,Nathema&Vaylin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gamephil Posted March 11, 2018 Share Posted March 11, 2018 (edited) More art, this time a shot that I really think fits the intended theme of this thread perfectly: fleeting-sanity again. Arcann and his twin girls, who bear a remarkable resemblance to their aunt. But unfortunate Edited March 11, 2018 by gamephil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackvinils Posted March 11, 2018 Share Posted March 11, 2018 More art, this time a shot that I really think fits the intended theme of this thread perfectly: fleeting-sanity again. Arcann and his twin girls, who bear a remarkable resemblance to their aunt. But unfortunate :( #Arcann,Nathema&Vaylin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fishpeople Posted March 11, 2018 Share Posted March 11, 2018 More art, this time a shot that I really think fits the intended theme of this thread perfectly: fleeting-sanity again. Arcann and his twin girls, who bear a remarkable resemblance to their aunt. But unfortunate Nice art. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paulsutherland Posted March 12, 2018 Share Posted March 12, 2018 (edited) Would you pose for a selfie with the High Justice of Zakuul? More art, this time a shot that I really think fits the intended theme of this thread perfectly: fleeting-sanity again. Arcann and his twin girls, who bear a remarkable resemblance to their aunt. But unfortunate So now Arcann starts to feel bad? good art though. Edited March 12, 2018 by Paulsutherland Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gamephil Posted March 12, 2018 Share Posted March 12, 2018 (edited) Would you pose for a selfie with the High Justice of Zakuul? So now Arcann starts to feel bad? good art though. Sorry, got long again. Well, the Arcann and Senya I have in my head are similar to and very different from the ones in the game, so I kind of have to remind myself that fleeting's presentation doesn't really match up. Senya, specifically, is the one from that video you put up where she said she wouldn't leave her children, plural, to the darkness. I wish we had gotten those characters instead of these. I like to think that, had he been written consistently, he would have felt bad the whole time. Whatever I feel about his "redemption"/brainwashing, when we first see him in Chapter 6, he IS trying to capture her, and he does try to talk her down. And in Chapter 9 he even admits his own culpability for what happened to her. In between those, Drew wrote her own mother as unsympathetically to her as possible, short of simply saying, "I hate her and she has to die", and actually had Arcann say that he hoped her spirit had been obliterated. Kind of mixed signals there. I have no problem with ignoring all that nonsense and him being written as sad about it. It just makes more sense to me, and matched up better with what they seem to want these characters to be. I mean, the very fact that you can save them, in spite of what they've done, is pretty good proof that the devs intended them to be sympathetic. The fact that they so often aren't, especially in Chapter 8, just makes me scratch my head. Then again, they also seemed to write them as being "strong" and "heroic" for just giving up. Maybe they somehow concluded that was a good substitute for "compassionate" and "remorseful". I disagree. If they hadn't both been partly responsible, I could have seen "just too hurt themselves to try", but not "strong" for it. Since they were partly responsible, that presentation just sticks in my craw. All those smiles as the Outlander takes the throne, which should have been because they'd reconciled with and avenged Vaylin in the mindscape (they should have let us see that), not because they're putting some stranger on their throne, end up just being creepy. And it would have taken like five seconds or slightly changed dialog to change them both for the better. Have I mentioned that the whole story just bugs me? The VA's almost save some of it, because they sound remorseful, but the script just destroys it. "We've won"? Really, Mom? Plus, I just like any little bit where someone shows some kind of remorse or compassion for her, even if it isn't canon, even if it seems out of character. Edited March 12, 2018 by gamephil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DuskIsNotAmused Posted March 12, 2018 Share Posted March 12, 2018 I like to think that, had he been written well, he would have felt bad the whole time. Whatever I feel about his "redemption"/brainwashing, when we first see him in Chapter 6, he IS trying to capture her, and he does try to talk her down. And in Chapter 9 he even admits his own culpability for what happened to her. In between those, Drew wrote her own mother as unsympathetically to her as possible, short of simply saying, "I hate her and she has to die", and actually had Arcann say that he hoped her spirit had been obliterated. Kind of mixed signals there. I have no problem with ignoring all that nonsense and him being written as sad about it. It just makes more sense to me, and matched up better with what they seem to want these characters to be. I mean, the very fact that you can save them, in spite of what they've done, is pretty good proof that they wanted them to be sympathetic. The fact that they so often aren't, especially in Chapter 8, just makes me scratch my head. Have I mentioned that the whole story just bugs me? Plus, I just like any little bit where someone shows some kind of remorse or compassion for her, even if it isn't canon. Yes it is strange I always found Senya's sudden switch as odd. But Arcann does sound hesitant/ sad when discussing her outside of that one comment...I guess I read that clumsy statement as I hope your not possessed by both my father and sister. Or another way to view it could be that he would rather she be gone than under Valky's power (the kids are more aware of Valky's habits...), could be a hope that her suffering end? I don't know, should probably listen to it a few times. I just want someone in her remaining family to have some positive hopes/ feelings for her. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gamephil Posted March 12, 2018 Share Posted March 12, 2018 (edited) Yes it is strange I always found Senya's sudden switch as odd. But Arcann does sound hesitant/ sad when discussing her outside of that one comment...I guess I read that clumsy statement as I hope your not possessed by both my father and sister. Or another way to view it could be that he would rather she be gone than under Valky's power (the kids are more aware of Valky's habits...), could be a hope that her suffering end? I don't know, should probably listen to it a few times. I just want someone in her remaining family to have some positive hopes/ feelings for her. Oh, I think that's what they were going for, yes. It's what makes it easy for me to accept the character as in the art I posted. The VA even nearly sells that one for me. I just think that they could have done better than have him repeat what Valkorion says about him if you take the "kill 'em all" path. Putting the same words in your "redeemed" character's mouth as might be spoken by that guy is an odd choice. The other one that really stands out for me is, just after he said he wants her captured in Chapter 6, if you say the line criticizing him, you get to say, "If you hadn't interfered, she'd be dead!" And he gets apologetic for preventing you from killing her while she's on her knees in pain. I never use that line. It's just that bad. All of this is making it really easy to play the "kill 'em all" path if I ever play it again. As much as I want to be sympathetic to them, since I truly think that was the intent, the devs make it so hard. Edited March 12, 2018 by gamephil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paulsutherland Posted March 12, 2018 Share Posted March 12, 2018 All of this is making it really easy to play the "kill 'em all" path if I ever play it again. As much as I want to be sympathetic to them, since I truly think that was the intent, the devs make it so hard. I don't think I'll ever do it again (without sufficient motivation) KOTET is just beyond bad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gamephil Posted March 12, 2018 Share Posted March 12, 2018 Really, much as I dislike the idea that you can let Vaylin live if you go dark side and no other way, the very fact that when we kill Arcann his soul gets sucked up should have allowed us to be utterly opposed to doing the same again. She might have forced us to, but just going along with him when you have that much evidence that he's up to something is Blizzard level of "your character is stupid and will fall for anything". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gamephil Posted March 12, 2018 Share Posted March 12, 2018 (edited) I don't think I'll ever do it again (without sufficient motivation) KOTET is just beyond bad. If I do it again, it will only be because I have specific things I want for it, things I gave up on over a month ago now because I couldn't bring myself to do another playthrough. Because it is, in fact, beyond bad. I'm impressed by how often you've gone through it, I couldn't bring myself to do it more than twice. Edit: It's funny, because I also really do think there's a lot of good stuff in those expansions. It's just so hard to see them past the glaring problems with the whole thing, especially them taking such complete and obvious control of my character to tell what ends up being an awful story (in the, "my character is a kind of awful person now" sense) rather than giving me simple choices to tell a better one. Edited March 12, 2018 by gamephil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paulsutherland Posted March 12, 2018 Share Posted March 12, 2018 Really, much as I dislike the idea that you can let Vaylin live if you go dark side and no other way, the very fact that when we kill Arcann his soul gets sucked up should have allowed us to be utterly opposed to doing the same again. She might have forced us to, but just going along with him when you have that much evidence that he's up to something is Blizzard level of "your character is stupid and will fall for anything". I forgot about that, You and Lana talk about that immediately afterwards, and the possibility of Valkorian using it against you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gamephil Posted March 12, 2018 Share Posted March 12, 2018 (edited) I should have given that post the sub-title: "The man he should have been, but wasn't". I think it would have gone over better. But I still like the sentiment, whoever says it. Edited March 12, 2018 by gamephil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DuskIsNotAmused Posted March 12, 2018 Share Posted March 12, 2018 (edited) Oh, I think that's what they were going for, yes. It's what makes it easy for me to accept the character as in the art I posted. The VA even nearly sells that one for me. I just think that they could have done better than have him repeat what Valkorion says about him if you take the "kill 'em all" path. Putting the same words in your "redeemed" character's mouth as might be spoken by that guy is an odd choice. The other one that really stands out for me is, just after he said he wants her captured in Chapter 6, if you say the line criticizing him, you get to say, "If you hadn't interfered, she'd be dead!" And he gets apologetic for preventing you from killing her while she's on her knees in pain. I never use that line. It's just that bad. All of this is making it really easy to play the "kill 'em all" path if I ever play it again. As much as I want to be sympathetic to them, since I truly think that was the intent, the devs make it so hard. After redemption he pretty much seems to except/ trust other's judgement over his own:( understandable that he's lost confidence in that area but I wouldn't call it healthy...people can abuse that I think the first instinct is the true one, that he believes if he can come around then she can... but then he doesn't believe he can be redeemed does he? just that he can try to atone. I guess it's hard to know where other people are concerned if you don't really trust your own judgement anymore. I get the Vibe that he thinks she's less at fault than he is, so more redeemable but less willing/ capable of stopping the damaging behaviour (After their discussion on the roof anyway). Ah at the end of the day he just goes along with what ever Senya/The outlander decides As you say props to the voice actor, he really convinced me they were uncertain/ unhappy about vaylin. But that just highlighted to me the lack of concern for her elsewhere (where I would expect it) I guess I don't really blame him, he just comes across to me as severely depressed and out of control by that point. What shocked me was Senya, it seemed so different from what I'de come to associate with her. Sorry, family dynamics are really important to me it just feels wrong to leave the three of them where they were at the end of KotET. I don't really hate characters, just don't have the attention span for it, but I hate Valkorion. I hate that you have to listen to him in any shape or form. I hate that you can't help all of them recover. I hate that Senya seems to lose hope/ faith in Vaylin which to me goes against character; for all the mistakes she makes she came back determined to fight for her remaining children whatever it takes. I believe that, chapter 8 did not work for me. Chapter 9 helped, but not enough. Sorry for rant Edit: I forgot to mention, you know how you hate how you blame Vaylin in the ending speech? I think if you choose the rule the galaxy option you don't say that, you ban mention of the name Valkorian. The speech is vaguely Tyrant like, but you can choose to use diplomacy in the next chap. I hate the peacekeeper speech for several reason so I guess I'm going darkside on that decision with all my characters... not sure how I feel about that. Edited March 18, 2018 by DuskIsNotAmused Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paulsutherland Posted March 12, 2018 Share Posted March 12, 2018 Edit: I forgot to mention, you know how you hate how you blame Vaylin in the ending speech? I think if you choose the rule the galaxy option you don't say that, you ban mention of the name Valkorian. The speech is vaguely Tyrant like, but you can choose to use diplomacy in the next chap. I hate the peacekeeper speech for several reason so I guess I'm going darkside on that decision with all my characters... not sure how I feel about that. I think the reference was to the line Lana or Theron (don't recall who says it) about the Alliance helping worlds attacked by Vaylin when we go back to Iokath and when Risha returns. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DuskIsNotAmused Posted March 12, 2018 Share Posted March 12, 2018 (edited) I think the reference was to the line Lana or Theron (don't recall who says it) about the Alliance helping worlds attacked by Vaylin when we go back to Iokath and when Risha returns. You do actually say it in the peace keeper speech...Its one of my many issues with it. -sad- maybe there will be some resolution in the next flashpoint I mean we are going to Nathema...-sighs- I apologize my original purpose was to cheer us up but I think I tanked it. Sleep deprived posting is bad. don't do it. it's like drunk texting Edit: Somebody take my keyboard away. Edited March 12, 2018 by DuskIsNotAmused Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paulsutherland Posted March 12, 2018 Share Posted March 12, 2018 You do actually say it in the peace keeper speech...Its one of my many issues with it. -sad- maybe there will be some resolution in the next flashpoint I mean we are going to Nathema...-sighs- I apologize my original purpose was to cheer us up but I think I tanked it. Sleep deprived posting is bad. don't do it. it's like drunk texting Edit: Somebody take my keyboard away. We do? Well ... guess no more LS for me then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DuskIsNotAmused Posted March 12, 2018 Share Posted March 12, 2018 (edited) We do? Well ... guess no more LS for me then. Do you normally go peace keeper or Empress/ Emperor? Edit: oh your right you don't mention Vaylin specifically just the fleet/ war (rechecked). You must be right it's mentioned in the next chapter by one of your advisor's! Edited March 12, 2018 by DuskIsNotAmused Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paulsutherland Posted March 12, 2018 Share Posted March 12, 2018 Do you normally go peace keeper or Empress/ Emperor? Edit: oh your right you don't mention Vaylin specifically just the fleet/ war (rechecked). You must be right it's mentioned in the next chapter by one of your advisor's! Of course I'm right, I'm the Prophet! No, I've finished KOTET three times, two DS endings, one light, but I didn't listen to the speech on the LS version, just smashed the spacebar to get it over with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DuskIsNotAmused Posted March 12, 2018 Share Posted March 12, 2018 Of course I'm right, I'm the Prophet! No, I've finished KOTET three times, two DS endings, one light, but I didn't listen to the speech on the LS version, just smashed the spacebar to get it over with. Please forgive my lack of faith Prophet! I do wonder about that `you'll see me whenever you close your eyes` scene though, was it just talking about when Valky absorbed her or was it foreshadowing something else. I don't want to get anyone's hopes up (including mine, but it's partially your fault your the one who first made me wonder about it). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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