Now give us all Cross Faction maps

[Stellarcrusade]

Everyone chooses the faction he likes most.

 

What people are asking for, is permission to play the faction they like the most, if it happens to also be the faction that has been abandoned by the 5.x gear structure. Meaning, people who choose pubs as their fav faction, have to PvP on the imp side the way things are...

 

So you are arguing against yourself. Your points actually make the oppositions argument.

[Cherepk]

Yes please as well as for solo ranked. Current pvp is actually fun.

[Stellarcrusade]

I dont like reps, i have all rights to do so because they are my enemies. I like to kill them though.

 

People who come riding in on their high-horse wanting us to keep the game imp vs pub are conveniently on the strong side. You notice that? You know what buddy? You are not experiencing the problem that this thread is asking to fix, so you really do not have any say in this discussion. Unless you would like them to leave it as it is and quadruple all hit points and damage of the pub side to even it out, and make sure imps never win a war again, then perhaps you'd change your tune. Well guess what, that's very similar to the actual situation on pub side right now (0% win rate).

 

Unless you voulenteer to play pubs from now on, you really cannot comment on this issue. And on a personal note, you probably suck because you are on the easy-side. Free wins given out for imps, no challenge when facing pubs. Maybe you should grow a pair and play a pub in PvP.

Edited January 17, 2018 by Stellarcrusade

[Foambreaker]

Voting NO.

[WayOfTheWarriorx]

Knowing the views of both sides of this, I think it would be appropriate to state that there is no "right or wrong" to this. It's about preference. - Since the mergers PVP pops are constant, I'm not sure why some people would have a different experience than myself on Star Forged, but I don't doubt that's the case for some. I PVP at vastly different times due to my schedule not being the same all the time, and while I have noted that of course during "sleeping hours" there is a decrease in pops, it's a matter of degrees.

 

I am personally not in favor of all maps being made cross-faction. I respect other people's views about "how it doesn't really matter" "it's outside the current storylines" and that there is no difference in the caliber of players between IMPs and Pubs, but at the end of the day this is Star Wars.

 

I don't want to be fighting alongside Jedi, I want to be eating their skulls and dancing on their remains. As far as I am concerned, "they are the enemy" [i don't mean that literally of course]. Even if you take the view that currently in the storyline they are not fighting each other due to the bigger Eternal Empire crap, that doesn't make them any less diametrical opposed in not only ideology but also in practice. I get that WZs are not about "RPing", or direct storylines, but there is something to be said about immersion. For a lot of players that matters. I have more fun when fighting pubs.

 

As far as the differences between players who main IMPS and those that are Pubs, I agree with what some other posters expressed that most players do or have played both sides of the fence and as the classes are exact mirrors of one another there shouldn't be much difference in how well one plays the same spec on either side. I would however say, all things considered, IMPs for whatever reason do seem to be better at PVP and I will be the first to admit that that makes no sense for the above mentioned reason. Individually speaking, there are outstanding players on both sides of the fence, IMP side may just have more of them.

 

If it were a question of matchmaking that would necessitate making maps cross-faction, even thought I wouldn't like the mixing I'd nonetheless support it for the greater good of the players. I wouldn't want to be that selfish. The happier the players are the more players there will be that stay. Cross faction maps won't solve the imbalance problems.

 

Besides, All pubs must die =]

Edited January 17, 2018 by WayOfTheWarriorx

[Rafiknoll]

If it were a question of matchmaking that would necessitate making maps cross-faction, even thought I wouldn't like the mixing I'd nonetheless support it for the greater good of the players. I wouldn't want to be that selfish. The happier the players are the more players there will be that stay. Cross faction maps won't solve the imbalance problems.

Not necessarily matchmaking, but given quite the lower number of players queueing at a certain faction in certain times (will use reps as example), that would mean that except for cross-faction maps, imps are more likely to face the same people again and again, and reps are more likely to have the same team members again, while the imps enjoy more diversity and play with different people.

It can be good or bad for either faction, depending on who is queueing rep side. If 2-3 stealth AFKers or total noobs, or rage quitters are queueing rep, it means that even a good rep will find it harder to win because all his games are hindered by the same morons (not to mention that if they quit it is less likely reinforcements will come promptly enough. Having 6 defenders in a voidstar for 40s can make quite a difference...). However, if the reps have some gods queueing, or a good premade, it means in nearly all games versus reps the imps will have to face them, while the other random reps get carried, whether they enjoy it or not.

Making cross-faction a thing solves both situations by shuffling all players randomly, just as most PVP-only games do, it increases the options by a lot, making games less same.

 

[Warning: reading might cause a headache, and is truly not adviced if for some reason you already have one ]

Some math to back it up, I will keep things simple and assume there are no premades at all, arenas don't exist, and all cases are extreme.

A reminder in math: The number of possibilities to pick X people out of a group of Y people (when order doesn't matter) is YcX = Y!/[X!*(Y-X)!]

Let's say there is no cross-faction at all (because since there is "some", it makes all calculations harder, because I can't measure how much "some"), and we have 13 reps and 30 imps in queue (and these numbers happen, they aren't too low to be true). As I said we will ignore arenas in this simulations, so all matches require 16 players, 8 per team. Without cross-faction, there are 1287 possible rep teams (13C8), versus 5852925 possible teams (30C8) in the empire. The ratio of possibilities 50025:11 which means approx 4548 imperial possibilities to 1 Republic possibility. The total of possible matches is 753,271,475.

[if you think these numbers are high, remember that for example, when I said 1287 rep possibilities it might sound a lot, but this number means the number of possible not-entirely-similar groups, which means, that even with the same 7 people, you have 6 different possible groups due to the 8th guy varying, so if this one guy doesn't matter we should divide it by 6 and already drop down to 215 options, and so on...]

Now let's check it in cross-faction, this time we aren't limited to picking 8 out of 13 and then 8 out of 30. We can this time look at it as picking 2 groups of 8 people of 43, which means there are 3.41289426x10^15 possible matches [43P16/(2*8!). Possible ways to pick 16 people out of 43 if order matters, divided by twice the possible ways to place 8 people in different orders, because order doesn't matter within the groups, only between them]. That is more than 4.5 million times more possible matches than without the cross-faction. It also means that the possibilities for each group are 58,419,982 (square root of the possible matches, because each group should have exactly the same number of options, given the lack of constraints such as faction), which is 10 times more possibilities than imps had without cross-faction, and 45392 time more possibilities than the reps had.

Yes, I did say above that the high number of possibilities is due to any little detail counting as a possibility, and in truth, the differences between a select thousand of possibilities are probably minor. But ratios don't lie. And the ratios say that the diversity of the group from low-populated-faction in matches will increase some thousandfolds if cross-faction is a thing everywhere, compared to how it would be if cross-faction didn't exist at all.

Now you will jump me and say that since cross-faction does exist, the impact of full cross-faction implementation will be smaller, because we are kinda half way there, that is true, but I also didn't take into account the possibility of reps being left out due to imps getting pops versus imps, imbalanced role diversities, and premades. Too many factors to make accurate math, but one thing is clear: there is just no way cross-faction will HARM the diversity, as we can see in the extreme case [Full cross versus no cross], the difference is immense.

 

Getting back to the no-math zone: Cross-faction might not help matchmaking as long as matchmaking doesn't exist, but it does improve the diversity of players, which is the next best thing.

[varietasplus]

I do support this request, however there is a monkey wrench that will probably prevent it from ever happening: Warzones do have a story behind them...

 

The short version is that in ACW, Denova, Voidstar, and Hypergate both factions are attempting to gain a strategic advantage over the other. Do all the WZs become "simulations" like when both sides are the same faction?

 

OPG and Yavin also have story behind them but have been tailored to be faction neutral and therefore cross-faction works.

 

 

And how do you deal with all the faction-specific, yet not faction restricted costumes and color crystals coming from either CM or Alliance crates when it comes to the role play aspect of your reasoning?

[omaan]

Too late for that. It was too late since 3.0 with Shadow of Revan uniting the factions versus the same enemies and experience 95% same story (different scenes but the idea is same), and KOFTE-KOTET made 100% similar scenes for whatever faction and class (besides companion encounters), reduced the war between the republic and empire to a weak broken cold war and focused on the eternal empire, and now they try to leak the boots of the Eternal Alliance commander, who commands a force more powerful than both factions, and doesn't answer to either. This is what SWTOR is now, like it or not, and the PVP follows the story. The results are positive in terms of faction queue-time balance and therefore we need this phenomenon increased, not reduced.

 

Should the game take a U-turn and start focusing on the old factions again, somehow stripping the player of his power and making him return to serving his old faction, then PVP considerations would have to be RP (which will then favor cross-faction) versus the general health of PVP (which will always favor cross-faction because diversity is good), and that would still leave room for a debate which is more important (and you have my opinion that PVP health > RP when concerning PVP...). But currently, the RP, as far as the devs are concerned, is also cross-faction (the Eternal Alliance), so even considering RP, we SHOULD get cross-faction.

If you don't like cross-faction for RP reasons, you should focus your efforts on first changing the direction in which RP currently goes and if and when you succeed, come back here and debate whether should PVP development consider RP. Currently all factors lean toward cross-faction besides the personal preferences of some players, this is just not enough to have weight...

 

I dont need ur diversity. When you finish shadow of revan everyone agrees that the alliance was TEMPORAL and that republic and empire are at war. So shadow or revan just shows us temporal alliance which ended fast. Even during kotfe we see that empire and republic continue to exist separate, and just sending some soldiers to the new alliance. Besides kotet and kotfe is a fail in general. Read comments on it and see that most of players didnt like it. I completed it only on my main and didnt do so on any other char. Classic story is twice as better as kotfe garbage.

 

Ill repeat again, what health of pvp you mean? There is no problems of wrz pops on darth malgus or tulak hord or star forge! Both factions getting constant pops, and i saw it on my own experience. Trixxie is an APAC player, she may be playing during the "dead time". Devs never cared about APAC players so no wonder most of them left. If these players having ms issues, getting no pops because of playing during dead time, there is no place for them in this game. Sad but true. I see no health to pvp changes if crosd faction will appear. In fact it will be worse because imp players(which are mostly much stronger, and you cant deny this fact because of many threads proving it) will flame on rep players for failing in ranked/regs. Cross faction will make pvp more toxic so there is no healthy changes here.

[omaan]

What people are asking for, is permission to play the faction they like the most, if it happens to also be the faction that has been abandoned by the 5.x gear structure. Meaning, people who choose pubs as their fav faction, have to PvP on the imp side the way things are...

 

So you are arguing against yourself. Your points actually make the oppositions argument.

 

Actually it is your argument low. Gear structure? Devs made Unessembled tokens to be legacy-wide. You can send these through all your chars even if your chars are rep or imp

[omaan]

People who come riding in on their high-horse wanting us to keep the game imp vs pub are conveniently on the strong side. You notice that? You know what buddy? You are not experiencing the problem that this thread is asking to fix, so you really do not have any say in this discussion. Unless you would like them to leave it as it is and quadruple all hit points and damage of the pub side to even it out, and make sure imps never win a war again, then perhaps you'd change your tune. Well guess what, that's very similar to the actual situation on pub side right now (0% win rate).

 

Unless you voulenteer to play pubs from now on, you really cannot comment on this issue. And on a personal note, you probably suck because you are on the easy-side. Free wins given out for imps, no challenge when facing pubs. Maybe you should grow a pair and play a pub in PvP.

 

So you agree that your here just because your faction is bad? What needed to be proved.

O dont like reps, never will like. I have all rights to do so because iam a lore star wars player. I hate kotfe alliance, and i didn't played it. I have all rights to state my opinion. You want cross faction? Fine go for it. I dont want to - so i will go for my opinion. And dont tell me that i have no rights to tell what i think and want.

[WayOfTheWarriorx]

Not necessarily matchmaking, but given quite the lower number of players queueing at a certain faction in certain times (will use reps as example), that would mean that except for cross-faction maps, imps are more likely to face the same people again and again, and reps are more likely to have the same team members again, while the imps enjoy more diversity and play with different people.

It can be good or bad for either faction, depending on who is queueing rep side. If 2-3 stealth AFKers or total noobs, or rage quitters are queueing rep, it means that even a good rep will find it harder to win because all his games are hindered by the same morons (not to mention that if they quit it is less likely reinforcements will come promptly enough. Having 6 defenders in a voidstar for 40s can make quite a difference...). However, if the reps have some gods queueing, or a good premade, it means in nearly all games versus reps the imps will have to face them, while the other random reps get carried, whether they enjoy it or not.

Making cross-faction a thing solves both situations by shuffling all players randomly, just as most PVP-only games do, it increases the options by a lot, making games less same.

 

[Warning: reading might cause a headache, and is truly not adviced if for some reason you already have one ]

Some math to back it up, I will keep things simple and assume there are no premades at all, arenas don't exist, and all cases are extreme.

A reminder in math: The number of possibilities to pick X people out of a group of Y people (when order doesn't matter) is YcX = Y!/[X!*(Y-X)!]

Let's say there is no cross-faction at all (because since there is "some", it makes all calculations harder, because I can't measure how much "some"), and we have 13 reps and 30 imps in queue (and these numbers happen, they aren't too low to be true). As I said we will ignore arenas in this simulations, so all matches require 16 players, 8 per team. Without cross-faction, there are 1287 possible rep teams (13C8), versus 5852925 possible teams (30C8) in the empire. The ratio of possibilities 50025:11 which means approx 4548 imperial possibilities to 1 Republic possibility. The total of possible matches is 753,271,475.

[if you think these numbers are high, remember that for example, when I said 1287 rep possibilities it might sound a lot, but this number means the number of possible not-entirely-similar groups, which means, that even with the same 7 people, you have 6 different possible groups due to the 8th guy varying, so if this one guy doesn't matter we should divide it by 6 and already drop down to 215 options, and so on...]

Now let's check it in cross-faction, this time we aren't limited to picking 8 out of 13 and then 8 out of 30. We can this time look at it as picking 2 groups of 8 people of 43, which means there are 3.41289426x10^15 possible matches [43P16/(2*8!). Possible ways to pick 16 people out of 43 if order matters, divided by twice the possible ways to place 8 people in different orders, because order doesn't matter within the groups, only between them]. That is more than 4.5 million times more possible matches than without the cross-faction. It also means that the possibilities for each group are 58,419,982 (square root of the possible matches, because each group should have exactly the same number of options, given the lack of constraints such as faction), which is 10 times more possibilities than imps had without cross-faction, and 45392 time more possibilities than the reps had.

Yes, I did say above that the high number of possibilities is due to any little detail counting as a possibility, and in truth, the differences between a select thousand of possibilities are probably minor. But ratios don't lie. And the ratios say that the diversity of the group from low-populated-faction in matches will increase some thousandfolds if cross-faction is a thing everywhere, compared to how it would be if cross-faction didn't exist at all.

Now you will jump me and say that since cross-faction does exist, the impact of full cross-faction implementation will be smaller, because we are kinda half way there, that is true, but I also didn't take into account the possibility of reps being left out due to imps getting pops versus imps, imbalanced role diversities, and premades. Too many factors to make accurate math, but one thing is clear: there is just no way cross-faction will HARM the diversity, as we can see in the extreme case [Full cross versus no cross], the difference is immense.

 

Getting back to the no-math zone: Cross-faction might not help matchmaking as long as matchmaking doesn't exist, but it does improve the diversity of players, which is the next best thing.

 

You had me right up until the "Some math" part, than my brain circuitry started to whistle, crack, and pop! heh

 

Many of your arguments are compelling and sound, gotta call a spade a spade. The math part I cannot speak to because once I'm out of fingers and toes it's all greek to me but I certainly will take your calculations at face value.

The arguments are in all likelihood better than mine and everything you are saying makes perfect sense. The thing is for many players Star Wars canon is a very compelling force in it's own right, we all grew up falling in love with Star Wars over and over again, I mean hell, even pygmies who have never laid eyes on a graveled road before know what Star Wars is! We like what we like, we all have preferences, and all people will never agree in mass on any subject and this is no different.

 

What does any of that have to do with WZs? Not one thing besides for immersion. Some people have said they don't care who they play with, whether IMP or Pub, Jedi or Sith and they are entitled to that opinion, but that's really all it is, opinions. But just because they might not care doesn't mean everyone else shares that view. I don't belittle anyone's opinion on the matter because neither side is right or wrong. Speaking for myself, I don't want to be fighting next to a Jedi, I want to fight him and all his pub friends. If you make all WZs cross faction, you will literally never be able to fight the Republic/Empire ever again. For me it's not as fun. I want to fight pub teams.

 

The pro cross faction people are not wrong when they say that WZs are not about storylines or RPing, I agree 100% That's undeniable. That seemingly doesn't seem to matter to a lot of people, they hate cross faction maps and the reasons for that really don't matter, that's their opinion, it just detracts from the experience. I mean what's next? Cross faction Operations? Cross faction storylines? Cross factioning of WZ would set a very bad precedent that would just bring the game further and further away from it's roots. No one wanted to play this game because they thought it'd be fun to play Sith and Jedi working together, they came because they wanted to play one side fighting the other. Once you hit end game, there is only way and one way only to still get to fight the other side and that's WZs. I'm not exactly sure what the split is with regard to people who are pro cross faction and against cross faction, but I would be very surprised if there was a poll taken and anti-cross faction wasn't greater than pro cross faction.

 

I respect those who are of the pro-cross factioning, they have every right to their opinion, I simply don't share it. If it would definitely improve the evening of the roles on both teams, I'd bite the bullet. What's best for all must come first and I'd fully support it.

 

On the technical level, you win hands down. You've got to love smart people.

 

Star Wars or bust.For the Empire!!!

[Rafiknoll]

You had me right up until the "Some math" part, than my brain circuitry started to whistle, crack, and pop! heh

 

Well, I did give an explicit warning on top of that part

 

<The rest of the post>

 

Didn't quote fully to make reading of my post easier, but I did read it all [You will never hear me say "tl;dr"]. A welcome change to see an opposing argument which is respectful and not offensive.

Yup, even as a non-RP myself I do enjoy "diving" into the backstory of a warzone (in case it has one), though I enjoy it about the same if I am a Jedi killing sith, or a sith killing Jedi, or a sith beating sith in training, or a sith teaming with Jedi and fighting sith and Jedi in training for the fight against the eternal empire. So I do understand the argument to an extent. I just can't give it more weight than the opposing side.

In fact, this is one of the things I dislike about Yavin: the backstory is lacking. It doesn't sound like training, the enemy is refered to as "the enemy", no information... Who are we? Who are they? Are factions emerging within the alliance? Theron's versus Lana's? Republic supporters versus imperial supporters (based on the Iokath storyline)? What exactly is going on there? [The only reason I never complained about it is the same as why I didn't complain about the new graphics of force shroud, it didn't harm enough to worth the effort]

But if I have to choose between swapping all PVP to alliance training matches or whatever backstory that went in Yavin and making them cross-faction (loss: pure old rep vs old imp battles), or sometimes having hours of facing/playing with the exact same people with nearly no diversity, then I choose losing those specific story aspects [and with some effort, RP with cross-faction can be as fun. You could consider the Jedi who is with you to be a member of the temporary truce (like we see in SoR or in SW storyline) against an enemy sith lord, who is your enemy because of the inner-fighting of the sith (like both vanilla sith storylines) or because they are revanites or zildrogs or whatever conspiracy you prefer ].

[Rafiknoll]

I dont need ur diversity. When you finish shadow of revan everyone agrees that the alliance was TEMPORAL and that republic and empire are at war. So shadow or revan just shows us temporal alliance which ended fast. Even during kotfe we see that empire and republic continue to exist separate, and just sending some soldiers to the new alliance. Besides kotet and kotfe is a fail in general. Read comments on it and see that most of players didnt like it. I completed it only on my main and didnt do so on any other char. Classic story is twice as better as kotfe garbage.

 

Ill repeat again, what health of pvp you mean? There is no problems of wrz pops on darth malgus or tulak hord or star forge! Both factions getting constant pops, and i saw it on my own experience. Trixxie is an APAC player, she may be playing during the "dead time". Devs never cared about APAC players so no wonder most of them left. If these players having ms issues, getting no pops because of playing during dead time, there is no place for them in this game. Sad but true.

 

The empire and republic exist separately but you aren't part of them, you are of the alliance, and regardless of your origins the empress will try to ally you and the chancellor will try to assassinate you, and both factions are constantly wary of you. If you dislike the 2 new expansions and their story, then too bad because "Devs never cared about RP players who don't agree with their new cross-faction story so no wonder most of them left. If these players having issues with the new story, refusing to accept that the current form of the game is making the players faction-impartial, there is no place for them in this game. Sad but true." As you probably noticed this is an edited copy-paste of your idea about APAC players. I don't truly think so, I think it is a cruel way to look at any group of players. But yet my version is closer to the truth than yours, and both better be false...

[WayOfTheWarriorx]

Well, I did give an explicit warning on top of that part

 

 

 

Didn't quote fully to make reading of my post easier, but I did read it all [You will never hear me say "tl;dr"]. A welcome change to see an opposing argument which is respectful and not offensive.

Yup, even as a non-RP myself I do enjoy "diving" into the backstory of a warzone (in case it has one), though I enjoy it about the same if I am a Jedi killing sith, or a sith killing Jedi, or a sith beating sith in training, or a sith teaming with Jedi and fighting sith and Jedi in training for the fight against the eternal empire. So I do understand the argument to an extent. I just can't give it more weight than the opposing side.

In fact, this is one of the things I dislike about Yavin: the backstory is lacking. It doesn't sound like training, the enemy is refered to as "the enemy", no information... Who are we? Who are they? Are factions emerging within the alliance? Theron's versus Lana's? Republic supporters versus imperial supporters (based on the Iokath storyline)? What exactly is going on there? [The only reason I never complained about it is the same as why I didn't complain about the new graphics of force shroud, it didn't harm enough to worth the effort]

But if I have to choose between swapping all PVP to alliance training matches or whatever backstory that went in Yavin and making them cross-faction (loss: pure old rep vs old imp battles), or sometimes having hours of facing/playing with the exact same people with nearly no diversity, then I choose losing those specific story aspects [and with some effort, RP with cross-faction can be as fun. You could consider the Jedi who is with you to be a member of the temporary truce (like we see in SoR or in SW storyline) against an enemy sith lord, who is your enemy because of the inner-fighting of the sith (like both vanilla sith storylines) or because they are revanites or zildrogs or whatever conspiracy you prefer ].

 

Again, it all makes perfect sense in the broader view, it's just the up close view for some of us that prevents us from seeing the broader view.

 

I don't know why it bothers me, I don't know why I care. I guess it's kinda like asking someone why they prefer their favorite color, who the hell knows heh Idiosyncrasies sometimes prevail!

[TrixxieTriss]

I didnt had any problems with pops on servers i played. And i queued in different times (mostly day and night but not in the morning). If server merges didnt helped one of the servers to have constant pops ON BOTH FACTIONS it means that this server is dying, and nothing will save it. In prospect it will die sooner than other servers. I mostly playing on darth malgus and tulak hord and the pops are pretty good during different times. And on Tulak hord the pops on rep side are even better than on imp side because reps dominate there (however, imps also not having any problems with pops).

 

So in your opinion, Star Forge is dying because it has slow pops for certain factions outside of your personal game time 😉

 

At 4pm to 2am Sydney Australia time (9pm - 7am West Coast time) the pops start decreasing significantly and extend out to multple hours between them. Last night there were 50-68 people on Repubilc SF between 11pm and 3am (AEST).

Now I know that is outside Prime time and I know Aussies got shafted with the servers moves. But if we had cross faction, it would help because there maybe enough people on both factions combined to get some matches.

Keep in mind that EU and East coast players are also on SF, that means at 6pm (AEST), it’s 7am (GMT, London). That means it’s 3pm in London at 2am in Sydney. So you’d think you should have a few EU guys on SF during the day?

What about the east coast? At 2am Sydney time, it’s 10am New York time. But we still only had 68 people on the republic fleet. On a side note, there were 1 and half Imperial fleets at that time, but it seemed most were RPing around the cantina.

From my experiences the last few weeks, I’ve seen in what you would call the prime time (because that’s when you play 🙄 ) actually shrinking.

It only seems health between 2-3pm to 9pm NY time and between 2-3pm to 9pm LA time. There is only 2 hours overlap there as well. So that means the peak of US prime time is 2 hours because once it reaches 9pm in NY, it starts to decline.

I’m not sure what the deal is with American players, do you all go to bed at 9.30pm every night 😉, so your bright eyed and fluffy tailed for school and work.

Obviously that’s not every night of the week, some are worse than others and the weekends are the best. There have only been two weekends since I saw this start to decline, so I’ve not seen a big decline there,

 

IMHO, they should have just made one US mega server. The only reason to have two was because we were expecting a west coast and east coast location for each. It makes zero sense to have 2 in the same location because they’ll end up needing to merge again in 6 months.

The EU can only support one English Speaking server and there are just as many of them as US players. What made them think we need 2 US servers?

Why not do it all in one hit? Rip the bandaid off like they did with the APAC players.

Edited January 18, 2018 by TrixxieTriss

[masstershake]

I see no reason other than people that cry immersion. This should be 100% acceptable for everyone but RPers. I also agree solo ranked could use this function.

[WayOfTheWarriorx]

IMHO, they should have just made one US mega server. The only reason to have two was because we were expecting a west coast and east coast location for each. It makes zero sense to have 2 in the same location because they’ll end up needing to merge again in 6 months.

The EU can only support one English Speaking server and there are just as many of them as US players. What made them think we need 2 US servers?

Why not do it all in one hit? Rip the bandaid off like they did with the APAC players.

.

 

I'm by no means a technical expert, in fact I pretty much break everything I touch, but I think maybe the reasons they didn't just make one megaserver are two fold.

 

* That's a lot of people talking at the same time and it would be extremely difficult to see what people you are talking two are responding with because the window text flys to fast. You'd have like 1000 people speaking at the same time and Fleet would be an absolute nightmare. With that also comes that many more trolls everyone has to deal with.

 

* If one out of 5 servers go down there still a ton of people playing the game on the other serves and thus are unaffected. The Mega server goes down there would not be one person playing the game, that's a lot of angry people. I believe, and you can correct me if I'm wrong, you're the techie, but I believe BW stated that that much traffic on the same server could in of it self cause problems and might have problems with stability. It kinda makes sense when you think about it. You'd know better than me though on that.

 

Closing down the west coast server and waiting until 5 minutes before 5.0 went live was messed up. That's not something that people take kindly when they know that BW waited that long to tell players because they didn't want to deal with the grief to them any more than they absolutely had to.

 

Does that make it suck any less? No chance, but you can't blame a business for trying to make as much money as is possible. Even still they should have said something much earlier that the WCS would be taken off line. That's a slap in the face to a paying customer. West coasters/APAC players have the right to be pissed over it. They're getting less service while stilling paying the same price as before.

Edited January 19, 2018 by WayOfTheWarriorx

[omaan]

The empire and republic exist separately but you aren't part of them, you are of the alliance, and regardless of your origins the empress will try to ally you and the chancellor will try to assassinate you, and both factions are constantly wary of you. If you dislike the 2 new expansions and their story, then too bad because "Devs never cared about RP players who don't agree with their new cross-faction story so no wonder most of them left. If these players having issues with the new story, refusing to accept that the current form of the game is making the players faction-impartial, there is no place for them in this game. Sad but true." As you probably noticed this is an edited copy-paste of your idea about APAC players. I don't truly think so, I think it is a cruel way to look at any group of players. But yet my version is closer to the truth than yours, and both better be false...

 

Both are the truth. low population and overall popularity of this game proves it. As to the new expansion - as i told you i have only one char which completed kotfe/kotet. All of my other chars didnt even started kotfe because prefer them to be affiliated with classic story. Besides, swtor's quest system allows us to skip the whole expansions. I can go full classic story, and then jump right to conflict between reps (elara) and imps (malavai) on the new mechanical planet (if iam not mistaken). Or in future when devs will provide more imp vs rep content i can jump directly to it. Since almost all my chars didnt started kotfe, and i dont plan to do it - idc about any alliances.

[Stellarcrusade]

Actually it is your argument low. Gear structure? Devs made Unessembled tokens to be legacy-wide. You can send these through all your chars even if your chars are rep or imp

 

You need to try to think a little before you post. The issue with 5.0 is initially everyone had to choose 1 character to level. Right away no wins and few pops happened on pubs, which severely slows down gearing because the war types allow imp vs imp, most wars were and still are imp versus imp. So imps were VERY quickly geared fully, and all pubs do all their pvping on imp side. Think, before post...it really helps.

[Stellarcrusade]

So you agree that your here just because your faction is bad? What needed to be proved.

O dont like reps, never will like. I have all rights to do so because iam a lore star wars player. I hate kotfe alliance, and i didn't played it. I have all rights to state my opinion. You want cross faction? Fine go for it. I dont want to - so i will go for my opinion. And dont tell me that i have no rights to tell what i think and want.

 

Once again, you assume instead of bringing facts. For that reason you'll nearly always be wrong. My faction is both factions, there is nothing to prevent players from playing both sides. You can fool yourself all you want thinking all people only play one side, and try to distract from the blatantly obvious points which are all that matters. People who play both sides (nearly all people), should be able to PvP on their pub chars too, currently you really cannot. And I'm sure you would change your tune quite fast since you are the rare single faction player, if your faction was the one abandoned. Instead you only play on the easy side, and want to keep your easy wars (when against pubs).

 

Since you are SOOOOOOOO against fighting with pubs and against other imps, I'm sure you quit every war instead of playing them right? Otherwise you are just full of it. Because almost all of the wars are Imp versus Imp, you leave those right? And almost all wars your teammates include players who would be PvPing on pub side if it were anywhere near even, so you pretty much stick to your morals and leave all wars so that you do not have to play against imps and with pubs right?

 

See, your argument holds no water. Admit it, you want to play on the easy side and you want that side to remain easy.

 

Regardless, why OP and probably most players want just is a choice. Anyone can just switch to imp side and PvP, but players should have the freedom to also play their pub chars. So unless they do something dramatic to even out the factions, like a gear wipe with no more imp versus imp warzones, so each side can grow at closer to the same rate, the only real good solution to the problem is - all wars cross faction.

 

And really, the OP's suggestion is an attempt to solve a very serious issue. Why not be productive and offer your ideas to solve that problem instead of just being a negative troll adding nothing, and not helping anything move closer to a solution. It is tremendously serious for TWO faction MMO to have 1 ENTIRE faction really not have a PvP option. You must want a faster death to the MMO, because thats what it brings.

Edited January 19, 2018 by Stellarcrusade

[WayOfTheWarriorx]

I see no reason other than people that cry immersion. This should be 100% acceptable for everyone but RPers. I also agree solo ranked could use this function.

 

To be fair here, I'm not an RPer, I'm a PVPer and I don't find this acceptable. If it's absolutely necessary or the game will flounder over it, than yes, of course do it, but other than that, why do we have to now all of a sudden after 6 years, when the situation now pubside is much better than it had been before the server merge, have to make all maps cross faction?

 

Now I'm not saying I want that, or that it should be written off or what have you, I just don't get why some people are so gung ho over it. - Now all of a sudden Imps have to save Pubs from extinction? We need to carry them? From a certain point of view this could almost be taken as an insult to Pubs heh

 

I can just about swallow half the maps being cross faction, but all of them? I'm never going to be in favor of that and a lot of people will feel the same way. This proposal makes a lot more sense for ranked because the pool of players for Ranked is small than for regs. There are 7,000 gazillion people who do regs, there is no problem with pops, you see pubs all the time. - In that regard, I can fully support cross-faction for Ranked, I personally have no issue with that.

If we want this game to grow and increase it's population with an influx of new blood, making it that there is never any instances of Imps vs. Pubs [at war] to be had, there is no hope of that. People aren't considering playing this game assuming that it doesn't include the Imps vs. Pubs motif.

 

You don't need to look any further than personal preference. I don't need to be an RPer to want to fight against pubs. MMORPGs tend to have an element if RP innately.

 

I might not agree with everything Omaan said, but fundamentally I share his overview about what Star Wars.

 

There is a reason why Sith use Red Crystals in their sabers and Jedi don't [traditionally speaking] - That's how you know who your enemies are. You can't blame people for wanting what they've always loved even if you no longer do. I still love killing Jedi and and I'm sure a whole bunch of them feel the same way about Sith.

 

Alliances are temporary, WZs are everyday. - All pubs must die =]

Edited January 19, 2018 by WayOfTheWarriorx

[TrixxieTriss]

.

 

I'm by no means a technical expert, in fact I pretty much break everything I touch, but I think maybe the reasons they didn't just make one megaserver are two fold.

 

* That's a lot of people talking at the same time and it would be extremely difficult to see what people you are talking two are responding with because the window text flys to fast. You'd have like 1000 people speaking at the same time and Fleet would be an absolute nightmare. With that also comes that many more trolls everyone has to deal with.

 

* If one out of 5 servers go down there still a ton of people playing the game on the other serves and thus are unaffected. The Mega server goes down there would not be one person playing the game, that's a lot of angry people. I believe, and you can correct me if I'm wrong, you're the techie, but I believe BW stated that that much traffic on the same server could in of it self cause problems and might have problems with stability. It kinda makes sense when you think about it. You'd know better than me though on that.

 

Closing down the west coast server and waiting until 5 minutes before 5.0 went live was messed up. That's not something that people take kindly when they know that BW waited that long to tell players because they didn't want to deal with the grief to them any more than they absolutely had to.

 

Does that make it suck any less? No chance, but you can't blame a business for trying to make as much money as is possible. Even still they should have said something much earlier that the WCS would be taken off line. That's a slap in the face to a paying customer. West coasters/APAC players have the right to be pissed over it. They're getting less service while stilling paying the same price as before.

 

All good points. I guess it may have been a tech limitation, but how many people are on the EU English speaking server? I’ve no idea.

Having two servers so if one goes down and people can still play on the other isn’t a bad thing, but it does split the population. Plus, what if you don’t usually play on the other server? I’d be more likely to just wait till the one I played on came back up.

I just hope that when the populations on both or one server starts to drop too much “again”, they don’t wait too long to merge them. Last time they waited 18 months too long and I think it was extremely detrimental to the game retaining players. People left because servers were dead. People came back once the merge happened. The only problem is they are starting to leave again.

As long as they don’t cater to the solo players who love dead servers and we don’t end up with 12 months of merge server threads and Bioware do actually merge before it becomes a problem, then two servers are ok for “the meantime”. Hopefully they already have a plan in place for this.

[WayOfTheWarriorx]

All good points. I guess it may have been a tech limitation, but how many people are on the EU English speaking server? I’ve no idea.

Having two servers so if one goes down and people can still play on the other isn’t a bad thing, but it does split the population. Plus, what if you don’t usually play on the other server? I’d be more likely to just wait till the one I played on came back up.

I just hope that when the populations on both or one server starts to drop too much “again”, they don’t wait too long to merge them. Last time they waited 18 months too long and I think it was extremely detrimental to the game retaining players. People left because servers were dead. People came back once the merge happened. The only problem is they are starting to leave again.

As long as they don’t cater to the solo players who love dead servers and we don’t end up with 12 months of merge server threads and Bioware do actually merge before it becomes a problem, then two servers are ok for “the meantime”. Hopefully they already have a plan in place for this.

 

Hey, if it gets to that point again, I'll be the first one right behind you in support [assuming I'm not banned again at the time, which is a 50/50 at best heh]. If making a mega-server is the lifeline the game needs to continue, I don't see how anyone could not see the necessity of doing so. I'm hopeful it won't come to that because if it does than we will know we have burned our last bridge and that the end is near and for all the complaining people do [some of it justified] I don't think any of us regulars here on the forums [and many others] want to see the game close shop. I certainly don't.

 

There is something of a natural ebb and flow to things, sometimes it may seem there are less people around for a while, than at other times you see more people for a while, there are so many factors that cause such ebb and flow and you don't want to be too reactionary because if people see people saying repeatedly "it's dying", "There's not enough people", etc, people might mistake downtimes for portents of doom. Self-fulfilling prophecy I think is the term.

 

It's a weird time of year. All the pent up excitement from the holiday season is gone, the New Year brings introspection about our lives, there's no real holidays to look forward to again for a good long while, everyone's gone back to their everyday lives again and the holiday season cheer is all gone. I hate this time of year for those very reasons. - I hate when they take the sexy Life Day dancing chicks on fleet away [you probably do too come to think of it =p ]

 

Let's give it a lil while and see how things shape up. Worse comes to worse, we all go hell together =]

Edited January 20, 2018 by WayOfTheWarriorx

[omaan]

You need to try to think a little before you post. The issue with 5.0 is initially everyone had to choose 1 character to level. Right away no wins and few pops happened on pubs, which severely slows down gearing because the war types allow imp vs imp, most wars were and still are imp versus imp. So imps were VERY quickly geared fully, and all pubs do all their pvping on imp side. Think, before post...it really helps.

 

That doesnt change the fact that there is no problem with gearing. You can earn tonnes of UCS on imp char and send them to rep chars = profit. So the gearing issues does not exist any long. Besides, darth malgus, tulak hord and star forge (while playing during normal gaming time) has NO PROBLEMS WITH POPS ON BOTH sides. Idk when or where do you play so that you have such dead queue pops but difimitely you must change the server/timezone.

[omaan]

So in your opinion, Star Forge is dying because it has slow pops for certain factions outside of your personal game time 😉

 

At 4pm to 2am Sydney Australia time (9pm - 7am West Coast time) the pops start decreasing significantly and extend out to multple hours between them. Last night there were 50-68 people on Repubilc SF between 11pm and 3am (AEST).

Now I know that is outside Prime time and I know Aussies got shafted with the servers moves. But if we had cross faction, it would help because there maybe enough people on both factions combined to get some matches.

Keep in mind that EU and East coast players are also on SF, that means at 6pm (AEST), it’s 7am (GMT, London). That means it’s 3pm in London at 2am in Sydney. So you’d think you should have a few EU guys on SF during the day?

What about the east coast? At 2am Sydney time, it’s 10am New York time. But we still only had 68 people on the republic fleet. On a side note, there were 1 and half Imperial fleets at that time, but it seemed most were RPing around the cantina.

From my experiences the last few weeks, I’ve seen in what you would call the prime time (because that’s when you play 🙄 ) actually shrinking.

It only seems health between 2-3pm to 9pm NY time and between 2-3pm to 9pm LA time. There is only 2 hours overlap there as well. So that means the peak of US prime time is 2 hours because once it reaches 9pm in NY, it starts to decline.

I’m not sure what the deal is with American players, do you all go to bed at 9.30pm every night 😉, so your bright eyed and fluffy tailed for school and work.

Obviously that’s not every night of the week, some are worse than others and the weekends are the best. There have only been two weekends since I saw this start to decline, so I’ve not seen a big decline there,

 

IMHO, they should have just made one US mega server. The only reason to have two was because we were expecting a west coast and east coast location for each. It makes zero sense to have 2 in the same location because they’ll end up needing to merge again in 6 months.

The EU can only support one English Speaking server and there are just as many of them as US players. What made them think we need 2 US servers?

Why not do it all in one hit? Rip the bandaid off like they did with the APAC players.

 

It proves that your and several other players timezone doesn't fit you server. Lack of APAC servers makes your game look dead, low populated. But you cant solve this problem by simply making cross-faction (which will cause problems to those who likes classic role). As i told, bioware doesnt care about APAC players, and you gaming time on star forge is not the main gaming time.